FE4 Gen 2 list

[Dat Nick]

Yeah, we got way in over our head last time. Let's try that again.

Disclaimer: Most of this is probably wrong. Hell, I probably don't have all the worthwhile pairings on hand.

Enemy stats by Vykan

Top:

Aless

Shanan

Arthur[Levin]

Sety[Levin]

High:

Oifaye

Delmud[Fin>Beowulf]

Lakche[Lex]

Skasar[Lex]

Delmud[Azel]

Serlis

Fee[Noish]

Altenna

Fin

Laylea

Leen [Not gonna bother seperating her]

UpMid:

Nanna [Azel]

Lakche[Noish]

Skasar[Noish]

Lester[Midir]

Nanna [Fin]

Sety[Claude]

Sety[Noish]

Hawk

Arthur[Azel]

Yuria

Mid:

Johan

Leaf

Johalavar

Dimna

Fee[Levin]

Nanna[beowulf]

Rana[Midir]

Tinny[Azel]

Fee[Claude]

Faval[Lex>Jamka>Beowulf>Holyn]

LowMid:

Mana

Patty[Lex]

Roddleban

Tinny[Levin]

Patty [beowulf]

Linda

Radnay

Low:

Patty[Holyn]

Amid

Patty[Jamka]

Asaello

Janne

Bottom:

Corple[Dew>Claude]

Corple[everybody else]

Sharlow

Tristan

Hannibal

Femina

Daisy

...I'll bet I even forgot some units, so somebody tap me if anything looks way out of place.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[Mekkah]

Would you mind making it like

Skasaha [Holyn]

instead? It's much easier to read that way imo.

[Dat Nick]

its going to take an assload of time to edit every single one of those

But if you insist

Also, you posted your list of worthwhile pairings while I was making this topic, so you'll have to give me a second to scan and add those.

Edit: Okay, now let's get rid of the almost certain errors that exist. For one, I think Tristan easily has a case of being below Hannibal.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Germany

[Kriemhild]

imo Fee [Noish] needs to be raised up. Although Sety [Noish] is imo the worst Sety, that pairing makes Fee absolutely amazing.

[Renall]

I think Shanan and Aless are considerably better than Sety in any capacity. They exist pretty much a full 2 chapters longer and Aless has a horse. Otherwise, Sety may as well be a clone of Shanan (unkillable skill-rapists), but he has 1~2 range and magical attack. But still, 2 chapters is a long time.

Not sure if they beat Arthur [Levin]. I think it comes down to when he promotes.

Low is completely messed up. Tristan needs to rise (I ranked him too low by far, if he gets the Pursuit Ring he's very good), Daisy and Femina need to drop (they are terrible). If nothing else Hannibal needs to be above them, or at least above Daisy. Daisy cannot do anything and cannot survive anything. Hannibal cannot do anything but can survive.

Lester [Midir] and [Jamka] need to go up. There's no way a guy who joins on turn 2 of ch6 and has exclusive rights to the Killer and Hero Bows for most of the game is worse than Sety's replacement (not that Hawk is really all that bad).

Delmud [Fin]/[beowulf] over Oifaye. EDIT: Actually, [beowulf] over him depending on what he inherits, but since [Fin] starts with no good weapons Oifaye is going to be kicking his ass for a good while. And it's still questionable given Oifaye's 17 DEF base, so I dunno.

Tinny has no right to exist in High. She's certainly not better than Sety [Claude], any Lakche/Skasaha (at least they start at low level when it's acceptable to be a low level), your dancer, or Arthur [Azel], who has almost a full chapter on her.

Julia up. I see no reason she shouldn't be in High. Yeah she disappears, but it really isn't for all that long. She's decent up until then and has exclusive control of Rezire.

Arthur/Tinny [Lex] are grossly overrated. I've done the numbers before, and they just aren't doing enough damage with Ambush + Wrath to be viable. If they got Pursuit they'd at least be good for the gimmick and fast leveling but they simply don't have that.

Mana is certainly better than a lot of the replacements just because Staff Chick doesn't really care that much about stats. Radney and Roddlevan probably wouldn't be hurt moving up either, they aren't that bad. And Roddlevan > Radney; stats are very close but he has Ambush and she doesn't.

Janne and Linda out of Low; Linda has Wrath and Elite, good promotion gains, and Minor Tordo to use Thoron, which drops early in a Replacements game if you don't pass it down (off Ishtor). Janne is a healer on a horse and while unlike Nanna she's NOTHING ELSE, that's still not bad.

Oh, and Lakche and Skasaha down generally. Yeah, I went there.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Renall

[Dat Nick]

Low is completely messed up. Tristan needs to rise (I ranked him too low by far, if he gets the Pursuit Ring he's very good)

Tristan is not the only person who wants the pursuit ring. Even Amid shoots up to high with it and I think we have to draw the line somewhere.

Daisy and Femina need to drop (they are terrible)

k

Tinny has no right to exist in High. She's certainly not better than Sety [Claude], any Lakche/Skasaha (at least they start at low level when it's acceptable to be a low level), your dancer, or Arthur [Azel], who has almost a full chapter on her.

All Tinnys down a tier.

Julia up. I see no reason she shouldn't be in High. Yeah she disappears, but it really isn't for all that long. She's decent up until then and has exclusive control of Rezire.

k

Arthur/Tinny [Lex] are grossly overrated. I've done the numbers before, and they just aren't doing enough damage with Ambush + Wrath to be viable. If they got Pursuit they'd at least be good for the gimmick and fast leveling but they simply don't have that.

I was thinking Fin basically superior to them anyway so I think I'll just wipe them off the list altogether.

Delmud [Fin]/[beowulf] over Oifaye.

...I find it quite odd you're proposing this after spending a lot of time saying "Oh, Delmud isn't THAT good", now you're arguing him above one of the better characters in the game.

Mana is certainly better than a lot of the replacements just because Staff Chick doesn't really care that much about stats. Radney and Roddlevan probably wouldn't be hurt moving up either, they aren't that bad. And Roddlevan > Radney; stats are very close but he has Ambush and she doesn't.

k

Janne and Linda out of Low; Linda has Wrath and Elite, good promotion gains, and Minor Tordo to use Thoron, which drops early in a Replacements game if you don't pass it down (off Ishtor). Janne is a healer on a horse and while unlike Nanna she's NOTHING ELSE, that's still not bad.

Linda not having pursuit is the main reason why she's so low, but okay Janne up.

Oh, and Lakche and Skasaha down generally. Yeah, I went there.

...where to

I don't see them above anybody they should be lower than, particularly not the Lex versions.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Renall]

Yeah I actually forgot how high Oifaye's DEF is. Maybe he should be going up, actually...

[Dat Nick]

So youre saying you want him back above Delmud?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Top of High tier seems appropriate for Oifaye.

[Dat Nick]

I can live with that.

[Eltoshen]

Aless over Shanan, maybe? I think Mistoltin > Balmunk just because Mistoltin gives critical and +20skill. That's a 32% chance to critical on base Aless. Plus, he has Ambush.

Another thing to consider is their movement. 8(or 9) movement vs. 6 and mounted units have the ability to move after attacking. Aless is probably the best character to solo large hoards of enemies with.

Am I missing something that makes Shanan higher than him? Shanan joins in the same chapter, so it's most likely not availability.

EDIT: eww, I can't believe I actually wrote "Shanam"

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

Am I missing something that makes Shanan higher than him?

yeah

avoid

[Eltoshen]

I was of the understanding that Mounted + Ambush + Critical made him a lot more useful than avoid, but whatever.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

Did we play the same FE4?

I'm just asking, because 90 avo at base before charisma/terrain wasn't "pity" the last time I checked.

Furthermore, in this case nobody cares that Aless has Ambush+Critical. Nobody cares about Ambush because Shanan almost never gets hit anyway and nobody cares about Critical because Shanan rapes everything anyway. Even 1 RN isn't enough to stop Shanan's lawl.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I can see Aless above Shanan actually. MOV's a pretty big deal in this game.

Edited September 26, 2009 by ?!

[Eltoshen]

Did we play the same FE4?

I'm just asking, because 90 avo at base before charisma/terrain wasn't "pity" the last time I checked.

Furthermore, in this case nobody cares that Aless has Ambush+Critical. Nobody cares about Ambush because Shanan almost never gets hit anyway and nobody cares about Critical because Shanan rapes everything anyway. Even 1 RN isn't enough to stop Shanan's lawl.

dammit, you saw my post before I could edit it and then replied after I did, rofl.

Shanan's slow, though. Not in the speed sense.

And by the way, Aless actually has a chance against Yurius (Chapter 9), Shanan doesn't. Sure, he can dodge everything, but he's not doing any damage, lol.

Using Meteor sword (on Yurius/Alvis) will also rape his Balmung of uses, too. I'd rather just finish things off with one strike and save money. Small point, though.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

I can see Aless above Shanan actually. MOV's a pretty big deal in this game.

Don't see 2 move cancelling out far superior durability. Furthermore, Aless is blatantly losing parameter wise for a while until he promotes.

In addition, Shanan becomes lovers with Lakche quickly which minimizes his money issues. Aless has Leen yes, but it's harder to get that support to build due to the fact that Leen is a dancer and that there's a huge move disparity between them.

And by the way, Aless actually has a chance against Yurius (Chapter 9), Shanan doesn't. Sure, he can dodge everything, but he's not doing any damage, lol.

wow, he can do decent against a boss nobody in their right mind is going to fight

Call me when somebody starts to care

Using Meteor sword (on Yurius/Alvis) will also rape his Balmung of uses, too. I'd rather just finish things off with one strike and save money. Small point, though.

wow, he sucks against a boss nobody in their right mind is going to fight

Call me when somebody starts to care

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Eltoshen]

Aless would be +3 move more than Shanan after promotion, plus you keep disregarding the fact that he can move after attacking.

Also, killing Yurius before Ishtar means you won't have to deal with her on the Final Chapter.

You're forced to fight Alvis, rofl. Unless you forgot he was actually the toughest boss besides Yurius (Chapter 9...or was that 10?).

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

Also, killing Yurius before Ishtar means you won't have to deal with her on the Final Chapter.

Except we're not reasonably going to do this without boss abusing or something and Ishtar is easy to deal with anyway [sleep Staff? Silence? There was some expoit that involved a status staff and a magic ring...] so yeah

Aless would be +3 move more than Shanan after promotion

"After promotion" being the operative phase here.

plus you keep disregarding the fact that he can move after attacking.

I'm not disregarding it. In fact, this is the first time you've even bought it up. Easy to accuse me of ignoring something when it's never been presented.

Anyway, regarding his Canto ability, it's primary use is to retreat after attacking. The thing is, Shanan doesn't need to retreat, ever. Yes, it can punch through blockades, but not only are those uncommon, they can be worked around anyway [sety kills something so Shanan can move further instead of being blocked by said something]

You're forced to fight Alvis, rofl. Unless you forgot he was actually the toughest boss besides Yurius (Chapter 9...or was that 10?).

Alvis=/=Yurius

speaking of Alvis, he's piss easy. Tealfing+Healers laying around and he's done. Even if the assumption that he's better than Shanan against him is true, it accounts for basically nothing because Alvis is a cakewalk.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Don't see 2 move cancelling out far superior durability. Furthermore, Aless is blatantly losing parameter wise for a while until he promotes.

2 MOV initially, 3 after promotion. I'm aware that Aless is losing "parameter wise" and all that but that's not the point. We all know that Shanan has greater durability, no question but the thing is that once Aless and other mounted characters promote, they're trampling every stinking enemy in the way and are leaving foot units behind, including Shanan which results in Aless actually seeing more action during the time he's promoted, Chapter 9 being very possible

Thus, Shanan beats Aless in C7 and C8 but from then on, Aless wins since he'll see much more combat while Shanan won't. Really, you'd have to give Shanan the Leg ring (which MANY units want including Levin!Sety) or having the Dancer with the Leg Ring dance for him on every turn.

[Eltoshen]

Aless over Shanan, maybe? I think Mistoltin > Balmunk just because Mistoltin gives critical and +20skill. That's a 32% chance to critical on base Aless. Plus, he has Ambush.

Another thing to consider is their movement. 8(or 9) movement vs. 6 and mounted units have the ability to move after attacking. Aless is probably the best character to solo large hoards of enemies with.

Am I missing something that makes Shanan higher than him? Shanan joins in the same chapter, so it's most likely not availability.

EDIT: eww, I can't believe I actually wrote "Shanam"

Oops, did I miss that? Nope, looks like I didn't.

But in all honesty, I see Aless' move being enough to put him above Shanan. By the third turn, we can assume that your foot units will just be catching up to your mounted units before they move another 9 spaces and leave them in the dust. Yeah, tell me that's not significant.

And since you seem to have worded it yourself, "Alvis is piss easy" and he's the hardest boss in the game, I think Shanan's usefulness is pretty much overshadowed by Aless' higher movement.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Fei Mao]

I think Aless probably should go above Shanan considering he has a mount and his Mistolin gives resistance which is helpful on the later chapters with status effecting dark mages.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Cyas

[irtikliwT]

Also, killing Yurius before Ishtar means you won't have to deal with her on the Final Chapter.

What?

[Renall]

Shanan vs. Aless vs. Arthur [Levin] is pretty contentious. I've always sided with Shanan and I'm inclined to agree here because his Avoid is really quite godlike even though he and Aless both kill anything. It's true that Aless has move and that is very important (one of the most important stats in the game, I'd argue), but he is slightly more mortal than the Balmung/Holsety wielders. That said, he comes into his own toward the end when he's charging across entire continents with Celice, and Shanan can fall behind somewhat.

Plus Shanan starting promoted alleviates the movement issue somewhat.

Now, regarding Lakche/Skasaha. I'm only covering her because basically anything that's true for her goes double for him.

Lakche [Lex] starts at lv1 with the following stats: 40 HP, 7 DEF, 22 Atk (Hero Sword, let's be real generous), 10 AS, and tons of Hit (100 with the Hero, 26 from SKL alone, plus Celice's leadership, Delmud's Charisma, etc.). Her Avoid, however, is like 28 before Leadership/Charisma/etc. And this is with a very light weapon; if she doesn't have the Hero (this applies to Skasaha since he won't, especially with Lex as father), she needs a Sword to keep Avoid up as a Blade lowers it a good bit.

Enemies in ch6 alone aren't total punks in Hit; the crappy Axefighters have an okay amount (in the 60s-70s I think?), the Bow Armors have more. And they have decent amounts of Atk, around 20 or so on average or thereabouts. Lakche wants to be on forests or hills whenever she can be and as close to Celice and Delmud as possible because that is not a terribly good situation to be in. Granted, it's still a 3-4 HKO, but why chance it?

Oifaye doesn't even give a shit. 17 DEF laughs at those punks. And he's not slouching on offense either since he's got more STR than Lakche and an Armor Cutter, so they both pretty much one-round people. Also I think he's one of the few people who can get to the NE village at Ganeishire before it gets too badly torched, so that's free money he can use to buy a sword off somebody.

As chapters bear on, Lakche gains more avoid, but it's still somewhat tumultuous to be away from anyone who can shore up her Avoid. But that's kind of the problem. Celice is either using the Leg Ring or a horse after he promotes. Delmud is mounted. These guys might take off and not be anywhere near her. Best case scenario, she's fighting without their help (and then she wants terrain, and there isn't always terrain to be used). Worst case scenario, they've left her completely in the dust. Now, the few times where the enemy is right outside, terrain is unfavorable to mounts, and everybody wants to bunch up (Muhammed's army or something), she's shining. But her capacity to kill people is hardly unique among 2nd Gen characters and in many cases is desperate overkill. And she's not moving very fast. Oifaye, while he starts to slack as the game wears on, retains his very high DEF and mounted advantage. He may not be as good a fighter as late-game Celice, Aless, Delmud, Arthur, Lester, etc., but he can stay with the vanguard and help out punching holes, finishing off somebody who didn't die because Arthur forgot to Continue, popping armors with a spare Cutter, whatever he needs to do.

Now Lex's version of the twins has the advantage of Elite, which lets them use the arenas to pretty much remain competitive the whole game despite fighting less. But Lakche still needs 12 more levels to really approach Oifaye's base capabilities, and she only winds up tying him in DEF. And that's with Lex as her dad. Any other Lakche doesn't get that much DEF. Oifaye tears shit up right out the starting gate and even though he isn't the best fighter by the end, he can actually keep up with the guys doing most of the fighting.

And like I said, anything that goes for Lakche, goes for her brother moreso.

As for Delmud [beowulf], they're pretty comparable statistically. Obviously have different skillsets. It basically comes down to this: Is Lakche's superior offense by her skills (including Elite) more useful than Delmud having more movement than her and Charisma? On paper, sure, she beats him against a lot of enemies. However, there is no question that he'll be fighting all of those enemies if he wants to. You have to play slower for Lakche to be joining that party or give her the Leg Ring which she doesn't really deserve. So basically, is Delmud [beowulf] one-rounding enemies? If he is, she's not better than him. If he isn't, then I don't know for sure.

[Eltoshen]

I think Aless probably should go above Shanan considering he has a mount and his Mistolin gives resistance which is helpful on the later chapters with status effecting dark mages.

Another point I was meaning to make.

Mistoltin's stat boosts > Balmung's stat boosts.

Giving extra skill to a character who hits everything in the game is kinda pointless. What am I saying, he actually needs the skill when facing important bosses. Don't bring up the speed boost, because we all accept the fact that he doesn't get hit, if only when he doesn't equip Balmung.

@ T.W.I.L.K.I.T.R.I.: Apparently Yurius warps away without taking Ishtar with him, and she doesn't show up again on the final chapter. Am I wrong?

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen