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Please, B2BD, if you're going to make arguments then know the game mechanics. Status in this game is 100% accurate as long as the user's mag is higher than the enemy's res. If it's lower, or the enemy is on a throne, you simply can't use it on them.

btw, would anybody mind if I dug up the most recent gen 1 list and included it in this topic? I mean, don't see any reason why we couldn't do both at once.

This topic is enough of a mess, I'd do it in a separate one.

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Fee's position, it needs to take 2 things into account. The good Fees anyways.

1. Brave Lance. There is absolutely no reason for her not to have it gen 2. We got brave use turn 1, it should easily have close to 50 kills, more exposure for said weapon. This helps her remove Bandits off the villages in chapter 6 before anyone else can, so that's money she nets us. On top of this, it helps her offense no matter her father, at least for the first part of her existence.

2. Possible staffs. Nuff said.

3. Flight. Again, nuff said.

4. Being the only person who can fly over to Manster to aid Fin, Leaf and Nanna, supplying another combatant (with a brave lance and flight) and possibly a second staff user. You can't warp people over to Manster, as it's not your castle. It's an ally. However, Fee can just fly over and help out. Really, what else would she be doing? I think they'd prefer more aid than your main force of hyper lol units.

Is her position considering these earlygame benefits?

Also, why is Leaf above Johalva? He's getting the Pursuit ring before he does (longer time to get it, brave pursuit is excellent stuff, possible lover in Lakche (seriously, how much trouble is Shanan having?)), more availability to get said ring, higher base level so he's closer to promotion. Leaf only really beats him when he promotes, and I don't see that happening till like...The chapter before last. Johalva's not promoting early by any means, but if he isn't, then Leaf sure as hell isn't. He doesn't just immediately get the ring because we said so. With he brave axe, Johalva is far greater a cantidate for it. That, and he needs to get the money first, and Johalva has far more likely a chance to get that money just from availability alone.

Master Knight is kickass compared to just getting bows, but at least bows are put to good use for the time he promotes, which is most likely in Thracia. We don't get Sir Leaf McBadass until he promotes, and we have someone far more capable beforehand.

Oh, and Johalva is far more tougher with his defensive stats, Brave Axe and lol Ambush.

Edited by France
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Status in this game is 100% accurate as long as the user's mag is higher than the enemy's res. If it's lower, or the enemy is on a throne, you simply can't use it on them.

....Oh.

Right. Forgot about that.

Also, why is Leaf above Johalva?

Dunno. But I recall it being argued before and Johan>Leaf>Johalva was agreed on.

Not necessarily saying that can't change now, but I don't care for it so I'm going to stay out of it.

Edited by Athena's Chest
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First off, Johalva has Charge, not Ambush. Johan has Ambush. Leaf with Pursuit and Elite can possibly promote at the start of 9, especially if he gets to help a civilian or two in Chapter 8. Pursuit Ring may be expensive, but he should get Elite passed down. How exactly does Johalva get so much money if Leaf can't? And Leaf starts off by 5 villages in Chapter 7. Also, one of them has a Speed Ring, IIRC, so that gives him a better chance to actually double with that Pursuit Ring. Johalva has 16 base speed and a 10% growth. Hero Axe has 12 weight, so 4 AS at base. I'm not sure exactly what he's doubling with that. Leaf has 5 AS base. That's equal by itself to Johalva's speed at level 20 promoted. And he also has 5 from the Speed Ring. Even if you give that to Johalva (10k more gold for him), Leaf's keeping it at least until Conote. Probably until the end of the chapter.

Johalva isn't getting gold in Chapter 6, because there's only two villages left for him. One has a Skill Ring, so you should probably have Skasaha or Lakche visit it. Or Fee if she has Critical. The other one is too far anyone but Fee and Oifaye to reach without a Leg Ring. He beats the first 6 units in the Arena. That's 18.5k. And then in Chapter 7, there's one village for him. But no, Laylea gets a Barrier Sword from that one. He beats only 4 enemies in the Chapter 8 Arena, for 25.5k. But Leaf has at least that much from the villages and his inheritance. There's 6 villages in Chapter 8, but one of them has the Thief Ring, which Aless is probably getting, and Johalva isn't getting there in time anyways. One of them is out of Leaf's way to get, and is in Johalva's way, so now he also has 30.5k. Johalva and Leaf have equal opportunity getting the other 4. That's not all that much more gold. If they split the villages, Leaf now has around 35k, while Johalva has 40, but Leaf can get the rest in the Chapter 9 Arena. Now they can both buy it.

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First off, Johalva has Charge, not Ambush. Johan has Ambush. Leaf with Pursuit and Elite can possibly promote at the start of 9, especially if he gets to help a civilian or two in Chapter 8. Pursuit Ring may be expensive, but he should get Elite passed down. How exactly does Johalva get so much money if Leaf can't? And Leaf starts off by 5 villages in Chapter 7. Also, one of them has a Speed Ring, IIRC, so that gives him a better chance to actually double with that Pursuit Ring. Johalva has 16 base speed and a 10% growth. Hero Axe has 12 weight, so 4 AS at base. I'm not sure exactly what he's doubling with that. Leaf has 5 AS base. That's equal by itself to Johalva's speed at level 20 promoted. And he also has 5 from the Speed Ring. Even if you give that to Johalva (10k more gold for him), Leaf's keeping it at least until Conote. Probably until the end of the chapter.

Johalva isn't getting gold in Chapter 6, because there's only two villages left for him. One has a Skill Ring, so you should probably have Skasaha or Lakche visit it. Or Fee if she has Critical. The other one is too far anyone but Fee and Oifaye to reach without a Leg Ring. He beats the first 6 units in the Arena. That's 18.5k. And then in Chapter 7, there's one village for him. But no, Laylea gets a Barrier Sword from that one. He beats only 4 enemies in the Chapter 8 Arena, for 25.5k. But Leaf has at least that much from the villages and his inheritance. There's 6 villages in Chapter 8, but one of them has the Thief Ring, which Aless is probably getting, and Johalva isn't getting there in time anyways. One of them is out of Leaf's way to get, and is in Johalva's way, so now he also has 30.5k. Johalva and Leaf have equal opportunity getting the other 4. That's not all that much more gold. If they split the villages, Leaf now has around 35k, while Johalva has 40, but Leaf can get the rest in the Chapter 9 Arena. Now they can both buy it.

This is a rediculous amount of favoratism for both characters. Celice should get elite so he promotes faster -> seizing castles faster. Johava makes bad use of pursuit ring because he has bad hit and bad speed (due to growth and axes). Aira's child do not need skill rings of all things. They are usually well balanced and don't really need ring at all.

Now about Fee [Levn] vs Fee [Claude]

We assume both recieved the hero lance from Fury (because it is very idiotic if you didn't). We assume it got around 40 kills (50 is probably more accurate, but...) since it should have been one of the only weapons Fury used. Fee ORKOs everything in chapter 6 with it (no matter what form). Continue is canceled by hero effect and Critical is achieved in around 10 more turns if not already. There skills are the same making the thing that made Levn a better dad completely mitigated comparitively. They both rely on the hero lance to kill consistently at base at least.

Prepromotion they are basically the same. Before the Arena in chapter 8 Fee [Claude] has 20 speed at level 13. Fee [Levn] has 24 speed, but loses 3.2ish resistence and 2 luck for 2 skill and 1 strengh (no clue why since they have the same growth). Fee also wins one magic for what it's worth (she now beats all form of Nanna except Nanna [Azel] in magic growth, but she'll have higher magic after promotion by 3 points). They still are basically the same before promoting. 4 more speed in this game doesn't double anything that should be fighting any more than 20 speed. They both should be able to promote at the start of chapter 9 after the arena if you used the elite ring efficiently.

After promotion Fee [Levn] caps speed and Fee [Claude] has a respectable 26 speed. Fee [Claude] wins 4-5 points of Resistence and 3 luck. I really hope Fee [Levn] enjoys her 5 more evasion and skills that aren't even necessary to ORKO. Fee [Claude] wins with her B staves, just have her buy a restore staff, a recover staff, and a libro staff and she easily becomes the second best (after her brother) healer in the game (no reserve :( ). While Fee [Levn] doesn't have the constantly used libro staff to gain levels nor recover staff to heal well, Fee [Claude] does and can easily reach level 30 by the end of chapter 9 due to huge Exp from B staves. She now can draw EXP from a non-combat pool almost every turn thanks to Libro's reach.

In chapter 10 Fee gains 5 strength at the end, but doesn't have the utility from a flying libro and restore staffer that has crazy range and won't get silenced and at a higher level. Fee [Levn] now has overkill strength if you still have Fee using a hero's lance and just becomes another fighter, who has yet to cap her level. Your team I kid you not is now much more sturdier thanks to Fee+libro.

Fee [Claude]=Fee [Levn] Before promotion

Fee [Claude] >> Fee [Levn] After promotion

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First off, Johalva has Charge, not Ambush.

Woops, my bad. Either way, more reason to give Johalva the pursuit ring. More attack chances the better.

Johan has Ambush. Leaf with Pursuit and Elite can possibly promote at the start of 9, especially if he gets to help a civilian or two in Chapter 8. Pursuit Ring may be expensive, but he should get Elite passed down. How exactly does Johalva get so much money if Leaf can't? And Leaf starts off by 5 villages in Chapter 7. Also, one of them has a Speed Ring, IIRC, so that gives him a better chance to actually double with that Pursuit Ring. Johalva has 16 base speed and a 10% growth. Hero Axe has 12 weight, so 4 AS at base. I'm not sure exactly what he's doubling with that. Leaf has 5 AS base. That's equal by itself to Johalva's speed at level 20 promoted. And he also has 5 from the Speed Ring. Even if you give that to Johalva (10k more gold for him), Leaf's keeping it at least until Conote. Probably until the end of the chapter.

Why are we taking away the Elite Ring from Celice now? I'm sure as hell not giving it to Cuan for Leaf to inherit if that's what you're thinking. Certainly the same for the Pursuit Ring. I'd rather Celice get to promotion first.

Also, you overestimate your enemy. 4 AS does miracles in this game, where most of the enemies are weighed down by their weapons just as bad (speaking of which, stuck with swords in a lance heavy game? If I recall, the WT in this game is quite a pain in hte ass, being on hte upside of it is always nice), and can be weighed down into the negatives. The worst I can imagine Johalva having to deal with are bosses (and I'd trust him FAR before I trust Leaf with such a job), and swordies, an incredibly rare sight in this game.

Speaking of 12 weight, if it's so bad, why doesn't Fin get a say in that ring? All lances are 12, the Knight Killer and javy are 18. Giving the speed ring to Leaf is like giving the skill ring to Arden, you're just being stupid.

So he needs the Elite Ring over Celice, the Pursuit Ring over Johalva, AND the Speed Ring over Fin just to be better than Johalva with Pursuit. So far, I'm not convinced in the least.

Speaking of those villages, most of those are gotten by our more mobile healer Nanna, who has to deal with staffs and Earth Sword. Ya know, things that are quite expensive and helpful than Leaf being a gimpy gimp offensively.

Johalva isn't getting gold in Chapter 6, because there's only two villages left for him. One has a Skill Ring, so you should probably have Skasaha or Lakche visit it. Or Fee if she has Critical. The other one is too far anyone but Fee and Oifaye to reach without a Leg Ring. He beats the first 6 units in the Arena. That's 18.5k. And then in Chapter 7, there's one village for him. But no, Laylea gets a Barrier Sword from that one. He beats only 4 enemies in the Chapter 8 Arena, for 25.5k. But Leaf has at least that much from the villages and his inheritance. There's 6 villages in Chapter 8, but one of them has the Thief Ring, which Aless is probably getting, and Johalva isn't getting there in time anyways. One of them is out of Leaf's way to get, and is in Johalva's way, so now he also has 30.5k. Johalva and Leaf have equal opportunity getting the other 4. That's not all that much more gold. If they split the villages, Leaf now has around 35k, while Johalva has 40, but Leaf can get the rest in the Chapter 9 Arena. Now they can both buy it.

His inheritance doesn't leave him filthy rich, ya know. 3 arenas with one of the parents being god awful in it, the other only being fair for a couple of them doesn't exactly say swimming in cash. Secondly, who's to assume Laylea is always in play? Thirdly, did you give him ALL 5 VILLAGES!? That is nuts, you are going out of your way for this bastard. You just robbed a staff user and a dude who would enjoy having a speed ring. At best, I'd give him 2 villages, and I highly doubt that his inheritance gets THAT much money out of it.

Fourthly, you seem to be forgetting that Johalva could be in love with Lakche by now (Say Shanan has money worries, I fucking dare you). She could just lend him money, god knows she doesn't need it for anything. I could have him buy it while there's downtime, like after getting our Dancer, and Celice is going to Lenster. Johalva could be buying it ready for the next arena.

Afterwards, he's pretty much all set, and can pay Lakche back if she needs it. Both now have a support as well, something Leaf can't say unless we glue Nanna to him like a moron. Providing a support is a benefit Johalva has that Leaf doesn't.

Maybe we should give Leaf the leg ring next.

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A separate tier list topic for first gen would be okay too.

Not yet, please post the standards you are going to set to evaluate this Tier list. Efficiency? Rank? Fun? Also list how characters are being penelized based on if some characters have the same father or mother.

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A separate tier list topic for first gen would be okay too.

Not yet, please post the standards you are going to set to evaluate this Tier list. Efficiency? Rank? Fun? Also list how characters are being penelized based on if some characters have the same father or mother.

Efficiency, obviously. Rank is just no fun (especially in FE4), and ranking a tier list on the funness of a character seems funny, but not practical.

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Not yet, please post the standards you are going to set to evaluate this Tier list. Efficiency? Rank? Fun? Also list how characters are being penelized based on if some characters have the same father or mother.

I find ranks in this game fun :(

What about the second part since I still don't see why Corple is getting shafted for deny Holsety!Sety/Arthur if they don't exist

Edited by Brighton
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What about the second part since I still don't see why Corple is getting shafted for deny Holsety!Sety/Arthur if they don't exist

I think it's because having to promote to use said spell at a time when enemies are far tougher (no way he isn't promoting before endgame) and he does not have Pursuit, nor promotes to get it? Basically imagine Levin you had to only use staffs to promote, then when he did he didn't get Pursuit at a time when enemies actually might very well be able to take the shot.

Basically Corple's the only person in Jugdral who could possibly put Holsety to bad use.

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I think it's because having to promote to use said spell at a time when enemies are far tougher (no way he isn't promoting before endgame) and he does not have Pursuit, nor promotes to get it? Basically imagine Levin you had to only use staffs to promote, then when he did he didn't get Pursuit at a time when enemies actually might very well be able to take the shot.

Basically Corple's the only person in Jugdral who could possibly put Holsety to bad use.

I agree its not worth it on Corple, but Holsety is still useful. Though to be fair having staves to promote is a good thing since it requires no risk of death and is the faster way to gain levels. Levn nevers gets pursuit either i think. He can still dodge tank the pegasus knights and Ishtar pretty well as well as the undead units guarding Yulius. I may be biased, but that 15 minutes of glory (especially when everyone else might dies from this situation), makes Corple better than having the valkyrie staff forever which shouldn't even be used if people are playing efficient they would just reset and not waste 30k which is pretty hefty to repair.

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Levn nevers gets pursuit either i think. He can still dodge tank the pegasus knights and Ishtar pretty well as well as the undead units guarding Yulius.

Levin may not, but given the other units you are talking about there I'm guessing you mean Sety, and since Fury happens to have innate pursuit...

edit: I guess they say "personal", but whatever. I suppose you could have been speaking of arthur, though, and he doesn't get pursuit either.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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I think it's because having to promote to use said spell at a time when enemies are far tougher (no way he isn't promoting before endgame) and he does not have Pursuit, nor promotes to get it? Basically imagine Levin you had to only use staffs to promote, then when he did he didn't get Pursuit at a time when enemies actually might very well be able to take the shot.

Basically Corple's the only person in Jugdral who could possibly put Holsety to bad use.

I agree its not worth it on Corple, but Holsety is still useful. Though to be fair having staves to promote is a good thing since it requires no risk of death and is the faster way to gain levels. Levn nevers gets pursuit either i think. He can still dodge tank the pegasus knights and Ishtar pretty well as well as the undead units guarding Yulius. I may be biased, but that 15 minutes of glory (especially when everyone else might dies from this situation), makes Corple better than having the valkyrie staff forever which shouldn't even be used if people are playing efficient they would just reset and not waste 30k which is pretty hefty to repair.

Ignore for a second that his mom and dad actually have bad luck, high priest has a shit speed cap, he has shit bases, and that enemies in endgame actually have leadership. I wouldn't say he's quite dodgetanking even with Holsety. Secondly, you are aware that Ishtar's Thor Hammer bombs the crap out of him due to WT, right? Those ghosts would also eat him alive.

There is no "glory", he's just incredibly meh. He's also stuck with the worst move you could ask for outside of possibly armor knights, you'd be taking forever to get him into range of anything anyways.

Which makes me think of something. If he can at any point, he should buy the warp staff, and inherit the Return Ring if Claude's his father. Since this is an efficiency tier list, the Valkyrie staff actually DOES serve a purpose. That purpose being allowing us to have a mulligen, or having sort of a suicide bomb. It could be helped with said equipment because if it happens, he just Return Rings to base, revives, and he then warps the revived guy to the nearest castle. God knows we aren't so in need of him that he needs to be at the front lines all the time. Saving that, he can always revive someone next battle if someone dies late enough into one that we can afford to go off a bit.

Valkyrie Staff basically allows us to be a little more reckless in an efficiency run. This could happen even in Endgame, since capturing one of the castles, a gate opens up just above the castle as sort of a shortcut. If you got the staff early, another example is the chapter before Thracia when you're on the defense against javelin knights+mage knight general, the mage sisters, and Ishtar. Perhaps the march to Connote and you're a bit unlucky with all the sniper magic around. Hell, if Nanna inherits it, she can mulligen a fuck up on the assault on Ishtore.

I;d consider the Valk staff on her far mroe useful than him being a meh dodgetank who can't get to the action.

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About this Leaf v.s. Johalva stuff on who gets the pursuit ring, personally, I think Leaf is the better candidate. He's likely to get it first, and it helps him promote faster. Leaf can have the elite ring by the begining of chp 8 if you play your cards right (I believe you get two return rings in gen one right? if you give him one of them, since Patty should get the other, and have him save two villages along with have him get the speed ring and have him do the arena he should have enough money), and promote at the begining of chp 9, but non the less Johalva/Johan only want the pursuit ring if no one else needs it, and that is likely only to happen if you pass on pursuit to all the children, excluding Sylvia's. I think Johalva would probably want the pursuit ring more than Johan though only because Bows+pursuit+duel=Win.

Also, I've asked this before and no one has answered this yet, but unlike FE5, duel can only activate while you can attack back right(meaning if you are equiped with a bow and someone attacks you with a sword, duel won't activate right)?

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Why are we taking away the Elite Ring from Celice now? I'm sure as hell not giving it to Cuan for Leaf to inherit if that's what you're thinking. Certainly the same for the Pursuit Ring. I'd rather Celice get to promotion first.

Leaf inherits his items from Ethlin.

Granted, I have no idea why you'd let the Elite Ring leave at the start of ch4 with either of them (or Fin).

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Do I even need to continue to defend my point by now?

Anyways, a suggestion. Yuria above Arther/Azel, since Rezire and Staff utility>Wrath, and then the axe brothers to upper mid above Arthur. Wrath's great and all, but all they need is the pursuit ring to beat him. They're both far more durable, they should be damn well able to kill with it+Brave Axe, one has Ambush to further cement his defensive abilities, and one has Duel to further offensive, both compounded by their brave weapon. Johalva has fantastic bases, while Johan has a mount. Wrath is great, but it still doesn't stop you from having paper-thin durability. On top of this, they have a support in Lakche (of which Johalva is better due to being nearby more often), while Arthur has none in the near future.

All they need is a ring to outperform him, and he needs to promote, which is still a long while away. In fact, another note is that the Brave Axe should have quite a high amount of kills on it, close to crit chances. As if they didn't stomp his ass into the ground...

Really, Arthur-Azel should top mid tier.

EDIT: No idea why they'd have hte pursuit ring either, since there are plenty of gen 1 units that otherwise would want it+if there are others who need pursuit in gen 2, it would be wise to give it to someone to inherit as soon as possible. Lex puts pursuit to good use, hands it down to a sword twin, who could sell it for a lot of money for his weapons. Or before you leave for gen 2, sell it, have Ayra buy it with her bound to be shitton of money to pass to Lakche so she sells it for a lot of money to hand over to Johalva to buy it.

Edited by France
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I think it's because having to promote to use said spell at a time when enemies are far tougher (no way he isn't promoting before endgame) and he does not have Pursuit, nor promotes to get it? Basically imagine Levin you had to only use staffs to promote, then when he did he didn't get Pursuit at a time when enemies actually might very well be able to take the shot.

Basically Corple's the only person in Jugdral who could possibly put Holsety to bad use.

I agree its not worth it on Corple, but Holsety is still useful. Though to be fair having staves to promote is a good thing since it requires no risk of death and is the faster way to gain levels. Levn nevers gets pursuit either i think. He can still dodge tank the pegasus knights and Ishtar pretty well as well as the undead units guarding Yulius. I may be biased, but that 15 minutes of glory (especially when everyone else might dies from this situation), makes Corple better than having the valkyrie staff forever which shouldn't even be used if people are playing efficient they would just reset and not waste 30k which is pretty hefty to repair.

Ignore for a second that his mom and dad actually have bad luck, high priest has a shit speed cap, he has shit bases, and that enemies in endgame actually have leadership. I wouldn't say he's quite dodgetanking even with Holsety. Secondly, you are aware that Ishtar's Thor Hammer bombs the crap out of him due to WT, right? Those ghosts would also eat him alive.

There is no "glory", he's just incredibly meh. He's also stuck with the worst move you could ask for outside of possibly armor knights, you'd be taking forever to get him into range of anything anyways.

Which makes me think of something. If he can at any point, he should buy the warp staff, and inherit the Return Ring if Claude's his father. Since this is an efficiency tier list, the Valkyrie staff actually DOES serve a purpose. That purpose being allowing us to have a mulligen, or having sort of a suicide bomb. It could be helped with said equipment because if it happens, he just Return Rings to base, revives, and he then warps the revived guy to the nearest castle. God knows we aren't so in need of him that he needs to be at the front lines all the time. Saving that, he can always revive someone next battle if someone dies late enough into one that we can afford to go off a bit.

Valkyrie Staff basically allows us to be a little more reckless in an efficiency run. This could happen even in Endgame, since capturing one of the castles, a gate opens up just above the castle as sort of a shortcut. If you got the staff early, another example is the chapter before Thracia when you're on the defense against javelin knights+mage knight general, the mage sisters, and Ishtar. Perhaps the march to Connote and you're a bit unlucky with all the sniper magic around. Hell, if Nanna inherits it, she can mulligen a fuck up on the assault on Ishtore.

I;d consider the Valk staff on her far mroe useful than him being a meh dodgetank who can't get to the action.

One thing:

Wind > Thunder > Fire > Wind.

Still, thunder gives 20 skill so it still has a lot of hit.

Anyway, I'm guessing Johan isn't hurt in the slightest from how much worse Yuria is with Aura than with Resire?

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Not in the least if he has the pursuit ring. The Brave Axe is just a nifty as hell weapon, and having a mount+Ambush along with excellent durability+decent offense and speed growth is just tasty.

Or do you mean in recruiting him? Because I think you're referring to recruiting to get one of the spells. Thing is you can recruit Johan, the enemy captures his castle, you still can get Rezire.

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Not in the least if he has the pursuit ring. The Brave Axe is just a nifty as hell weapon, and having a mount+Ambush along with excellent durability+decent offense and speed growth is just tasty.

Or do you mean in recruiting him? Because I think you're referring to recruiting to get one of the spells. Thing is you can recruit Johan, the enemy captures his castle, you still can get Rezire.

I thought if you recruit Johan you can't get Resire.

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Not in the least if he has the pursuit ring. The Brave Axe is just a nifty as hell weapon, and having a mount+Ambush along with excellent durability+decent offense and speed growth is just tasty.

Or do you mean in recruiting him? Because I think you're referring to recruiting to get one of the spells. Thing is you can recruit Johan, the enemy captures his castle, you still can get Rezire.

I thought if you recruit Johan you can't get Resire.

Nope. Enemy takes Johan's ally castle, you recapture it, you get Rezire. This would mean you should be taking Johalva's castle, but...No one said you HAD to take it.

This is why Julia isn't seperated to Julia/Aura and Julia/Rezire.

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Not in the least if he has the pursuit ring. The Brave Axe is just a nifty as hell weapon, and having a mount+Ambush along with excellent durability+decent offense and speed growth is just tasty.

Or do you mean in recruiting him? Because I think you're referring to recruiting to get one of the spells. Thing is you can recruit Johan, the enemy captures his castle, you still can get Rezire.

I thought if you recruit Johan you can't get Resire.

Nope. Enemy takes Johan's ally castle, you recapture it, you get Rezire. This would mean you should be taking Johalva's castle, but...No one said you HAD to take it.

This is why Julia isn't seperated to Julia/Aura and Julia/Rezire.

Johan's castle doesn't get destroyed when the enemy takes it?

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Ignore for a second that his mom and dad actually have bad luck, high priest has a shit speed cap, he has shit bases, and that enemies in endgame actually have leadership. I wouldn't say he's quite dodgetanking even with Holsety. Secondly, you are aware that Ishtar's Thor Hammer bombs the crap out of him due to WT, right? Those ghosts would also eat him alive.

There is no "glory", he's just incredibly meh. He's also stuck with the worst move you could ask for outside of possibly armor knights, you'd be taking forever to get him into range of anything anyways.

Which makes me think of something. If he can at any point, he should buy the warp staff, and inherit the Return Ring if Claude's his father. Since this is an efficiency tier list, the Valkyrie staff actually DOES serve a purpose. That purpose being allowing us to have a mulligen, or having sort of a suicide bomb. It could be helped with said equipment because if it happens, he just Return Rings to base, revives, and he then warps the revived guy to the nearest castle. God knows we aren't so in need of him that he needs to be at the front lines all the time. Saving that, he can always revive someone next battle if someone dies late enough into one that we can afford to go off a bit.

Valkyrie Staff basically allows us to be a little more reckless in an efficiency run. This could happen even in Endgame, since capturing one of the castles, a gate opens up just above the castle as sort of a shortcut. If you got the staff early, another example is the chapter before Thracia when you're on the defense against javelin knights+mage knight general, the mage sisters, and Ishtar. Perhaps the march to Connote and you're a bit unlucky with all the sniper magic around. Hell, if Nanna inherits it, she can mulligen a fuck up on the assault on Ishtore.

I;d consider the Valk staff on her far mroe useful than him being a meh dodgetank who can't get to the action.

Dude do you ever actually check your information or do you just post the wrong information on purpose. Lying is bad you know. Also you should probably check the definition of effenciency again. You're making me angry (though I shouldn't since this argument is made since I don't wanna start my homework yay procrastination)

Corple with Levn as the dad has 40% luck growth (far from bad) try not to look at Holyn's. Since when do Cap's in speed actually matter when the difference between caps between Sage and Hipriest is 14 evade, not to mention Mage knight caps are lower. Also BTW Holsety bonuses are high too.

@bold: I was under the impression that heavy weapons used against you was a good thing

If he has the worst move and in this PT your only Holsety user, You better deal with it, Movement isn't an issue if Holsety was something people cared about. BTW why is it no one hates on Sety for having 6 move? Its only a difference of 1. >_>. Sure its better, but the complete hypocracy in this is absurd, sure hate on Corple for having similar move to Sety.

The Valkyrie Staff cost 30k to repair. Why would you even be using it to begin with? How is letting characters die, effencient >_>? Here is a better alternative, plan out your tactics before placing Delmud in from of 12303243242349823749823 lance users all carrying horse slayers. Do you really want to have Patty repeatedly give 30k to a Hi priest with all round bad stats that is Corple [Claude].

You contradict yourself by saying that Corple can reach far enough to valkarie staff, yet is unable to reach the area to Holsety use? what? Snipers can't use magic BTW. Nanna can never use the Valkarie staff since Delmudd would inherent major blaggi blood.

If the Holsety weilder in this PT isn't dodge tanking Ishtar please tell me who should?

Again check your information before making unwarrent claims. I'm done being patient since it never is reciplicated.

Edited by Brighton
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If you do recruit Johan, does his Ally Army attack before Johalva's? I know if you recruit Johalva, his Ally army attacks first, but I'm not sure about Johan.

Also, no Johan's castle doesn't get destroyed, but the AI may take a while to take it over I'd imagine, and when they do you'd lose Johan's support army.

The likely reason as to why Sety!Levin is so much higher than Corple!Levin is because Sage's are broken and he has pursuit. Also, for some reason, at least in my opinion, 5 mov is somehow ALOT worse than 6 mov.

Also, even with Holsety, wouldn't Sety!Levin still have only about a 70% chance of dogeing Ishtar with the Tor Hammer? Tor Hammer just has ridiculous hit.

Edited by Blademaster!
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