FE4 Gen 2 list

[Narga_Rocks]

If you do recruit Johan, does his Ally Army attack before Johalva's? I know if you recruit Johalva, his Ally army attacks first, but I'm not sure about Johan.

Also, no Johan's castle doesn't get destroyed, but the AI may take a while to take it over I'd imagine, and when they do you'd lose Johan's support army.

The likely reason as to why Sety!Levin is so much higher than Corple!Levin is because Sage's are broken and he has pursuit. Also, for some reason, at least in my opinion, 5 mov is somehow ALOT worse than 6 mov.

Also, even with Holsety, wouldn't Sety!Levin still have only about a 70% chance of dogeing Ishtar with the Tor Hammer? Tor Hammer just has ridiculous hit.

Yeah, Holsety has 5 wt, so 45 speed and say 30 luck and that's only 120 avo. Ishtar in endgame has 199 hit. With weapon triangle that's still 59 hit. Of course, I'm not sure if she gets luck to her hit or not since I think I saw something about that, but even so: 184 hit would make 44 hit on him.

Not sure Sety is dodging her either, in fact he probably isn't. I suppose throw in a lover bonus and some charisma and Celice and he's likely to dodge, so that is an assurance that the Corple version can't reach anyway. And they'll have less luck than 30 anyway (less than 22 each, probably). I suppose with two charismas and celice and a lover Corple could cut it down to 1% just like Sety, but I think it would actually still be around 8% or something compared to the 1% that Sety can achieve with those things.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

Johan's castle doesn't get destroyed when the enemy takes it?

It doesn't get destroyed, because it's an ally castle, not one of yours.

Dude do you ever actually check your information or do you just post the wrong information on purpose. Lying is bad you know. Also you should probably check the definition of effenciency again. You're making me angry (though I shouldn't since this argument is made since I don't wanna start my homework yay procrastination)

I thought the WT had thunder>Wind, which was my mistake.

Corple with Levn as the dad has 40% luck growth (far from bad) try not to look at Holyn's. Since when do Cap's in speed actually matter when the difference between caps between Sage and Hipriest is 14 evade, not to mention Mage knight caps are lower. Also BTW Holsety bonuses are high too.

That would be because with leadership, 14 avoid could be low enough to actually make him vulnerable. It's a 1 RN system, you need numbers closer to 0. Even the 10s can instill fear, especially to one with horrid luck (you ever had Shanan stuck to slaughter a group of enemies only to ahve them all hit and kill him with 1-4 displayed?)

Holsety isn't necessarily a cure-all.

@bold: I was under the impression that heavy weapons used against you was a good thing

So everyone can double her except for Corple, since he lacks Pursuit. She has 20+ skill for +40 hit to negate his avoid, leaving him basically his natural. Either way, I just wouldn't put him up to it.

Besides, how does he gain 19 levels in basically 1 chapter?

If he has the worst move and in this PT your only Holsety user, You better deal with it, Movement isn't an issue if Holsety was something people cared about. BTW why is it no one hates on Sety for having 6 move? Its only a difference of 1. >_>. Sure its better, but the complete hypocracy in this is absurd, sure hate on Corple for having similar move to Sety.

I don't, the list does. Sety usually has something greater going for him though, that he starts with this move, needs no training to use said spell, has pursuit thanks to his class, better caps, etc.

The Valkyrie Staff cost 30k to repair. Why would you even be using it to begin with? How is letting characters die, effencient >_>? Here is a better alternative, plan out your tactics before placing Delmud in from of 12303243242349823749823 lance users all carrying horse slayers. Do you really want to have Patty repeatedly give 30k to a Hi priest with all round bad stats that is Corple [Claude].

Notice how I didn't say using it multiple times, but rather just once. It gives us A suicide bomb, it gives us A mulligen.

But if a strategy goes well save the death of one person, why reload a save when I can just use a valkyrie staff? It allows me to do riskier things. If I succeed, great. If I fail, I can bring them back. It's a one time deal, but again he can do something better.

This goes for Sety/Claude as well. Since most of the time Arthur is getting Holsety, these two have another option that Arthur doesn't due to his clase choice. This allows these people a use while our best choice for Holsety is put to best use. Corple is simply the best to use since he doesn't even put Holsety to great use. It's simply inefficient to have Holsety so late.

You contradict yourself by saying that Corple can reach far enough to valkarie staff, yet is unable to reach the area to Holsety use? what? Snipers can't use magic BTW. Nanna can never use the Valkarie staff since Delmudd would inherent major blaggi blood.

Corple is too far away from...base....to use it...since that's the place the staff is used?

Sniper Magic=Thunderstorm, Meteor, Blizzard, I suggest you don't be so patronizing.

What does Delmud have to do with Nanna's ability to use the staff?

Edited October 8, 2009 by France

[Narga_Rocks]

Johan's castle doesn't get destroyed when the enemy takes it?

It doesn't get destroyed, because it's an ally castle, not one of yours.

cool

I don't, the list does. Sety usually has something greater going for him though, that he starts with this move, needs no training to use said spell, has pursuit thanks to his class, better caps, etc.

Has pursuit thanks to his mother. Sage only gets Continue. Still, it's just a technicality as far as Sety having pursuit is concerned.

Notice how I didn't say using it multiple times, but rather just once. It gives us A suicide bomb, it gives us A mulligen.

But if a strategy goes well save the death of one person, why reload a save when I can just use a valkyrie staff? It allows me to do riskier things. If I succeed, great. If I fail, I can bring them back. It's a one time deal, but again he can do something better.

This goes for Sety/Claude as well. Since most of the time Arthur is getting Holsety, these two have another option that Arthur doesn't due to his clase choice. This allows these people a use while our best choice for Holsety is put to best use. Corple is simply the best to use since he doesn't even put Holsety to great use. It's simply inefficient to have Holsety so late.

I think you should emphasize that these risks you are taking have a decent chance at not getting anyone killed (hopefully), too. Like, sending someone that would die in 4 hits to dodge 6 enemies that all have 50% hit rates, or something. If it works, great! And it'll work more than half the time. Then you can take another risk later without having to pay for the valkyrie staff. If you fail? Well, that's what the staff is for, I guess. Hopefully the unit will dodge one or two instead of none, though, so that he at least attacks 5 enemies instead of 3.

The questions, though, are:

Do you ever need to do this?

Will more than one unit be put at risk as a result of this plan?

If the plan succeeds (unit lives), is there an advantage of taking the risk over not taking a risk?

If the plan fails, are we worse off than we would be if we chose a safer plan?

Nanna can never use the Valkarie staff since Delmudd would inherent major blaggi blood.

What does Delmud have to do with Nanna's ability to use the staff?

Only one child gets major, and it's not Nanna. Since she gets minor, using the staff is not an option.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

Having Sety have the Valkyrie Staff is basically refusing us an always superior Sety. Corple having Valkyrie allows us to have a better Sety always. Taking Holsety away from Arthur is just taking away from efficiency. Corple not having a father other than Claude potentially damages just about every other character one can think of. He should be thankful that Fee doesn't care much about her father, thanks to basically Brave Lance monopoly to allow him a chance at Claude. How can Corple then put it to use?

Basically gives us the option to be more reckless. We can attempt greater risks. It allows me to be more slack in stacking people up, I can charge ahead just a bit deeper with less care. I can live if someone dies, because I can just bring them back. I don't necessarily have to suicide bomb, but it gives me the option. Having the option>not having it. The more reckless I can be, the deeper I can go, and the deeper I go the faster I'm playing. Since I've had Holsety for possibly longer, I'd find this better than having to wait till endgame to put it to moderate use. I would rather have moments of reckless abandon to rush towards the castle to boost me forward than having basically a mage that hits really damn hard once, once we promote him that be.

Basically having Holsety earlier+Valkyrie gambits>Holsety near the end of the game with no Valkyrie gambit.

...Wait, Delmud gets major Blaggi?...Ok, nevermind that point then.

Man, that's weird...

Edited October 8, 2009 by France

[Narga_Rocks]

...Wait, Delmud gets major Blaggi?...Ok, nevermind that point then.

Man, that's weird...

Why is it weird? There are only, like, 2 mothers that pass on stuff to sons and force the fathers to pass stuff to their daughters.

I think.

Anyway, the rest have any major blood staying with the same gender. Believe it or not, Claude is a male. Ergo, Nanna not getting * staves if you pair Lachesis with Claude makes perfect sense.

[Dat Nick]

makes Corple better than having the valkyrie staff forever which shouldn't even be used if people are playing efficient they would just reset and not waste 30k which is pretty hefty to repair.

Will you PLEASE stop pretending that Valkyrie is the ONLY staff that Corple inherits? I don't even recall giving a damn about Valkyrie.

And for the billionth time, Holsety and shit move for 1 chapter, if he even PROMOTES to get Holsety and can acquire the massive funds required for such wasting of staves<<<<<Superior library of staves in the form of both ClaudeCorple and Sharlow.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[BBM]

No one hates on Sety for six movement? That's one of the two reasons why people put Arthur over Sety.

France, you're contradicting yourself. You're saying Arthur without Holsety takes away from efficiency. Alright. But you're also saying that giving Sety Valkyrie denies you a superior Sety, which makes no sense, because the only Sety superior to Claude!Sety is Levin!Sety. And apparently, having Sety's dad be Levin takes away from efficiency.

Claude doesn't just give Sety Valkyrie. He also allows him to use A rank staves like Reserve, and gives him good MAG, LUK, and RES. Sety with Claude or Azel as a father is probably the only person who can status Julia without a Magic Ring. But Azel only gives him higher speed, which is unnecessary, as Claude allows him to cap it as well. And Volcanon, but that ruins his AS. Claude!Sety can also disregard status staves with his RES. Unless you're on of the advocates for NoishxFury?

[Salad Utensil]

Having Sety have the Valkyrie Staff is basically refusing us an always superior Sety. Corple having Valkyrie allows us to have a better Sety always. Taking Holsety away from Arthur is just taking away from efficiency. Corple not having a father other than Claude potentially damages just about every other character one can think of.

Basically gives us the option to be more reckless. We can attempt greater risks. It allows me to be more slack in stacking people up, I can charge ahead just a bit deeper with less care. I can live if someone dies, because I can just bring them back. I don't necessarily have to suicide bomb, but it gives me the option. Having the option>not having it. The more reckless I can be, the deeper I can go, and the deeper I go the faster I'm playing. Since I've had Holsety for possibly longer, I'd find this better than having to wait till endgame to put it to moderate use. I would rather have moments of reckless abandon to rush towards the castle to boost me forward than having basically a mage that hits really damn hard once, once we promote him that be.

Your first argument contradicts your second by the way. I'll address the second argument first. Sety still gives you the option of using Valkyrie which I'm still not seeing the point of. You are advocating we make rediculously reckless decisions that risk losing characters. Since when is losing a character than wasting 30k to revive them effecient. I've easy AAAA ranked this game before without having to use any reckless stragies. Whether or not you have the option of using it doesn't matter when you shouldn't. You know why other games don't have a Valkyrie staff (you can reset)? Do you really want to give Corple a 30k burden to deal with? Sety [Claude] is basically just Sety [Levn] without holsety, he still ORKOs fine and just does worse against bosses, but instead can use whatever staff he wants like the rescue you can buy in the second generation. I'll accept the worth of Valkyrie staff if you can prove that making bad/reckless decisions means playing efficiently and that wasting 30k is > resetting. IF you can prove this burden I'll concede on this point otherwise if you dodge the issue (like I've seen you do before) i'll just ignore your post.

At your first point. You don't have to pass down the valkyrie staff unless you meet my burden I placed on you to prove. Corple [Levn] is worse than Sety [Levn] and Arthur [Levn] when they all exist, cool I'm not trying to prove he is better, and its obvious why. Do not post any BS about opportunity cost because, Corple [Levn] is always > Arthur [Levn] and Sety [Levn] combined because in the PT with Corple [Levn], they don't exist. There is only an opportunity cost if you have the oppotion of having only one Holsety and All three can use it at once in the same PT.

Addressing the post above me about staff inheritence from "Athena's Chest". Reserve, Charm, and Rescue are lost to Corple when Levn is the dad. All B staves are up grabs though (since thats the highest Levn can pass down). Lets see, Charm doesn't exist, Rescue requires you to pair Aideen with Azel and Claude which doesn't happen in this Tier list. The only advantage to having Claude be the parent is passing down Reserve. Lets see: the only difference in staff use is the ability to inherent Reserve. Seriously? you are saying Corple [Levn] is worse because Reserve isn't passed down? Reserve can be gotton sooner if Corple doesn't get to inherent Reserve. Sety [Claude] arrives a chapter earlier and reserve is dropped by an enemy if not passed down (before you even get Corple BTW). There I see no reason now why Corple [Levn] is worse than Corple [Claude]. Since Corple starts with A staves thanks to his mother no matter what, you can have him buy Reserve if you are so inclined. There is no superior library of staffs from Sharlow, he has to buy them too, the only difference is a staff that costs as much as Valkary and has its own disadvatages too. You could berserk Aion and stay out of his range until he commits suicide, or just sleep him and just take the Castle? Berserk is not effencient since it still forces you to stay out of the enemy's range or it might still attack you. IF Corple inherits some B staves he will start out with a higher library than Sharlow (they both start out with a libro staff too).

[Narga_Rocks]

Having Sety have the Valkyrie Staff is basically refusing us an always superior Sety. Corple having Valkyrie allows us to have a better Sety always. Taking Holsety away from Arthur is just taking away from efficiency. Corple not having a father other than Claude potentially damages just about every other character one can think of.

Basically gives us the option to be more reckless. We can attempt greater risks. It allows me to be more slack in stacking people up, I can charge ahead just a bit deeper with less care. I can live if someone dies, because I can just bring them back. I don't necessarily have to suicide bomb, but it gives me the option. Having the option>not having it. The more reckless I can be, the deeper I can go, and the deeper I go the faster I'm playing. Since I've had Holsety for possibly longer, I'd find this better than having to wait till endgame to put it to moderate use. I would rather have moments of reckless abandon to rush towards the castle to boost me forward than having basically a mage that hits really damn hard once, once we promote him that be.

Your first argument contradicts your second by the way. I'll address the second argument first. Sety still gives you the option of using Valkyrie which I'm still not seeing the point of. You are advocating we make rediculously reckless decisions that risk losing characters. Since when is losing a character than wasting 30k to revive them effecient. I've easy AAAA ranked this game before without having to use any reckless stragies. Whether or not you have the option of using it doesn't matter when you shouldn't. You know why other games don't have a Valkyrie staff (you can reset)? Do you really want to give Corple a 30k burden to deal with? Sety [Claude] is basically just Sety [Levn] without holsety, he still ORKOs fine and just does worse against bosses, but instead can use whatever staff he wants like the rescue you can buy in the second generation. I'll accept the worth of Valkyrie staff if you can prove that making bad/reckless decisions means playing efficiently and that wasting 30k is > resetting. IF you can prove this burden I'll concede on this point otherwise if you dodge the issue (like I've seen you do before) i'll just ignore your post.

At your first point. You don't have to pass down the valkyrie staff unless you meet my burden I placed on you to prove. Corple [Levn] is worse than Sety [Levn] and Arthur [Levn] when they all exist, cool I'm not trying to prove he is better, and its obvious why. Do not post any BS about opportunity cost because, Corple [Levn] is always > Arthur [Levn] and Sety [Levn] combined because in the PT with Corple [Levn], they don't exist. There is only an opportunity cost if you have the oppotion of having only one Holsety and All three can use it at once in the same PT.

Addressing the post above me about staff inheritence from "Athena's Chest". Reserve, Charm, and Rescue are lost to Corple when Levn is the dad. All B staves are up grabs though (since thats the highest Levn can pass down). Lets see, Charm doesn't exist, Rescue requires you to pair Aideen with Azel and Claude which doesn't happen in this Tier list. The only advantage to having Claude be the parent is passing down Reserve. Lets see: the only difference in staff use is the ability to inherent Reserve. Seriously? you are saying Corple [Levn] is worse because Reserve isn't passed down? Reserve can be gotton sooner if Corple doesn't get to inherent Reserve. Sety [Claude] arrives a chapter earlier and reserve is dropped by an enemy if not passed down (before you even get Corple BTW). There I see no reason now why Corple [Levn] is worse than Corple [Claude]. Since Corple starts with A staves thanks to his mother no matter what, you can have him buy Reserve if you are so inclined. There is no superior library of staffs from Sharlow, he has to buy them too, the only difference is a staff that costs as much as Valkary and has its own disadvatages too. You could berserk Aion and stay out of his range until he commits suicide, or just sleep him and just take the Castle? Berserk is not effencient since it still forces you to stay out of the enemy's range or it might still attack you. IF Corple inherits some B staves he will start out with a higher library than Sharlow (they both start out with a libro staff too).

So, why does the Valkyrie staff need to be repaired in the first place? If you use it once, it's free. You use it, it breaks, you move on with your life. No 30k there. Corple[Levin] having to buy the Reserve Staff? 15000 there anyway. Half the cost of Valkyrie Staff (though I suppose Levin[Claude] could use it a couple of times and not repair it to cut costs for Corple). There is still the matter of burning through multiple expensive staves just to promote Corple. Of course, in the case of the reserve staff, since it appears repairs cost full price there actually isn't much difference between inheriting and not inheriting. There is a difference, of course, in that if he inherits a 10 use reserve staff he's not paying for the first 10 whereas if he buys a staff he does pay for them, but there is also a chance Claude would have used the staff a bit in the first generation. If there are only 7 uses remaining then it's only a difference of 7 that Corple[Levin] is paying for but Corple[Claude] is. Only 10500. Also, do parents give full money to their children? Isn't Levin likely to have more money than Claude anyway? If he has 10000 more than Claude in a typical playthrough, that pretty much cancels the whole buying Reserve thing. And of course Sety[Claude] could have used it for multiple chapters.

Also, why does it cost half price to repair things with 50 uses but full price to repair things with less than that? Well, except things like Knight Slayer and magic swords. At least, according to feplanet.net. Of course, they say the Earth Sword has 50 uses.

[Paperblade]

How important is prayer on Nanna? Also, does it matter what the pairing does to the sibling?

Nanna[Azel] looks pretty decent compared to Nanna[Fin]

105% 55% 40% 20% 45% 30% 15% 50%

95% 65% 7% 30% 35% 35% 12% 65%

She has +10% hp, -10% str, +33% mag, -10% skl, +10% spd, -5% def, -15% luck.

So she has more spd and she'll have decent enough magic to wield a magic sword. More speed growth means more speed. Since she has swords, I'm not sure if she needs the extra speed for doubling, but it is a fair amount of speed eventually. She'll even have more hp to make up for any def loss. Also, she'll recover a lot more hp for other units. The str loss doesn't stop her from capping str at level 23 on average anyway, instead of level 20.

I guess the main thing is she's faster and heals better and can use magic swords quite well with 14 magic at level 23. That's similar to Fee[Levin] with magic swords. Certainly better than Leaf or anyone other than Fee[Levin] will do with any of them.

I'm just asking if maybe she has a right to exist.

Would like to make a quick correction here, since it seems to be forgotten in every comparison with FinNanna, although I doubt it will change much because Nanna can't use Recover to make up for wtfFalablood. Fin!Nanna gets a Ch. 7 convo that boosts her Speed by 5, making Fin!Nanna faster than all other Nannas. Levin!Nanna doesn't surpass Fin!Nanna until promotion, and even then the lead never even reaches half a point of Speed because they're like 2 away from the cap so pew pew cap ramming, compared to Fin!Nanna winning Speed by 3-4 prior to that, never mind someone who doesn't pass on lolsety blood like Azel, whose Nanna is still behind by like .75 Speed even at max level.

Which means that AzelNanna vs. FinNanna is like, a bunch of magic (which admittedly is really nice), like 3HP (does anyone even care, especially considering how ridiculous HP values get in this game, especially Gen 2?), and 1 Res (meh) vs. overkill Str, 1-5 Spd (depending on level), Prayer (combined with the Speed buff and Earth Sword makes Arena much easier), and some Skl (20% is really really terrible since Luck doesn't give Hit and weapon accuracy isn't balling out of control unless you're using the Hero Sword or Killer Bow, especially since Nanna is already at a disadvantage since she can't benefit from her own Charisma). Plus like minor Defense leads (probably worth slightly more than the HP/Res lead, if anything at all)

[Salad Utensil]

So, why does the Valkyrie staff need to be repaired in the first place? If you use it once, it's free. You use it, it breaks, you move on with your life. No 30k there. Corple[Levin] having to buy the Reserve Staff? 15000 there anyway. Half the cost of Valkyrie Staff (though I suppose Levin[Claude] could use it a couple of times and not repair it to cut costs for Corple). There is still the matter of burning through multiple expensive staves just to promote Corple. Of course, in the case of the reserve staff, since it appears repairs cost full price there actually isn't much difference between inheriting and not inheriting. There is a difference, of course, in that if he inherits a 10 use reserve staff he's not paying for the first 10 whereas if he buys a staff he does pay for them, but there is also a chance Claude would have used the staff a bit in the first generation. If there are only 7 uses remaining then it's only a difference of 7 that Corple[Levin] is paying for but Corple[Claude] is. Only 10500. Also, do parents give full money to their children? Isn't Levin likely to have more money than Claude anyway? If he has 10000 more than Claude in a typical playthrough, that pretty much cancels the whole buying Reserve thing. And of course Sety[Claude] could have used it for multiple chapters.

Also, why does it cost half price to repair things with 50 uses but full price to repair things with less than that? Well, except things like Knight Slayer and magic swords. At least, according to feplanet.net. Of course, they say the Earth Sword has 50 uses.

You haven't proven

1) why you would ever even need to use it (reset)

2) you have not proven why Corple even need to buy Reserve (I just said in my post only if you felt inclined to)

3) Levn still lets Corple inherit non-reserve and valkyrie staves, the Libro lets him level fast too. He can buy warp if Rana caps her level, He can buy Restore too, how the heck are people not capping Corple's Level when ALL of your other staff users should have reached level 30 by the time he arrives.

Additional stuff, People are all for Leaf getting the pursuit ring, yet they don't let Corple inherit a useless second return ring, something to sell for money? If Holsety that was inherited is still in decent condition he has no need for money at all assuming he promotes at the Finale.

[Narga_Rocks]

How important is prayer on Nanna? Also, does it matter what the pairing does to the sibling?

Nanna[Azel] looks pretty decent compared to Nanna[Fin]

105% 55% 40% 20% 45% 30% 15% 50%

95% 65% 7% 30% 35% 35% 12% 65%

She has +10% hp, -10% str, +33% mag, -10% skl, +10% spd, -5% def, -15% luck.

So she has more spd and she'll have decent enough magic to wield a magic sword. More speed growth means more speed. Since she has swords, I'm not sure if she needs the extra speed for doubling, but it is a fair amount of speed eventually. She'll even have more hp to make up for any def loss. Also, she'll recover a lot more hp for other units. The str loss doesn't stop her from capping str at level 23 on average anyway, instead of level 20.

I guess the main thing is she's faster and heals better and can use magic swords quite well with 14 magic at level 23. That's similar to Fee[Levin] with magic swords. Certainly better than Leaf or anyone other than Fee[Levin] will do with any of them.

I'm just asking if maybe she has a right to exist.

Would like to make a quick correction here, since it seems to be forgotten in every comparison with FinNanna, although I doubt it will change much because Nanna can't use Recover to make up for wtfFalablood. Fin!Nanna gets a Ch. 7 convo that boosts her Speed by 5, making Fin!Nanna faster than all other Nannas. Levin!Nanna doesn't surpass Fin!Nanna until promotion, and even then the lead never even reaches half a point of Speed because they're like 2 away from the cap so pew pew cap ramming, compared to Fin!Nanna winning Speed by 3-4 prior to that, never mind someone who doesn't pass on lolsety blood like Azel, whose Nanna is still behind by like .75 Speed even at max level.

Which means that AzelNanna vs. FinNanna is like, a bunch of magic (which admittedly is really nice), like 3HP (does anyone even care, especially considering how ridiculous HP values get in this game, especially Gen 2?), and 1 Res (meh) vs. overkill Str, 1-5 Spd (depending on level), Prayer (combined with the Speed buff and Earth Sword makes Arena much easier), and some Skl (20% is really really terrible since Luck doesn't give Hit and weapon accuracy isn't balling out of control unless you're using the Hero Sword or Killer Bow, especially since Nanna is already at a disadvantage since she can't benefit from her own Charisma). Plus like minor Defense leads (probably worth slightly more than the HP/Res lead, if anything at all)

Yeah, I missed the +5 speed until later. The speed boost is even really early, too. The skill growth of Nanna[Azel] bothers me too, but I was hoping that using swords would mean she wouldn't miss too much. Her best weapon (Earth Sword) only has 70 hit in both its forms, though, so that may be a problem. Also, at one point I was concerned about the Earth Sword's 12 wt at 2 range but was hoping she'd double enough anyway. I'm not sure if a gap this size between the two versions is justified because of those concerns.

The extra magic is nice, though, I think anyway. Too bad she doesn't use range in the arena, though. (I think that's the case, right? A magic sword user in the arena just attacks at one range.)

You haven't proven

1) why you would ever even need to use it (reset)

Because not resetting > resetting? If you have a strategy where a reset is likely without planning to use the Valkyrie staff, that makes it a bad strategy. So, strategy is more limited. Not sure how important it is, though. I already asked France a few questions he hasn't fully answered. It's possible this never creates a significant advantage.

2) you have not proven why Corple even need to buy Reserve (I just said in my post only if you felt inclined to)

'cause it's good?

Why have Sety stuck using it now that Corple the unpromoted has appeared?

3) Levn still lets Corple inherit non-reserve and valkyrie staves, the Libro lets him level fast too. He can buy warp if Rana caps her level, He can buy Restore too, how the heck are people not capping Corple's Level when ALL of your other staff users should have reached level 30 by the time he arrives.

Sharlow gets Libro, too. And Libro is only 35 exp, so it's still over 50 uses before promotion. And 500 to repair. 1750 exp is earned from 50 uses, so a civilian makes level 18, I guess. He could get by with under 50 uses, but that's a lot of uses in one chapter so that he can Holsety all of the last one.

Additional stuff, People are all for Leaf getting the pursuit ring, yet they don't let Corple inherit a useless second return ring, something to sell for money? If Holsety that was inherited is still in decent condition he has no need for money at all assuming he promotes at the Finale.

How much Gold does a unit get from his/her father/mother? I couldn't find it anywhere.

[Salad Utensil]

I'm not talking sure what France is advocating either to be honest, but just for the sake of answering I said that characters shouldn't die if you play correctly and that Resetting >Valkyrie (esp with ingame saving)

but lets discuss more on things that actually matter in this comparison

'cause it's good?

Why have Sety stuck using it now that Corple the unpromoted has appeared?

My point was that Corple [Levn] was similar enough to Corple [Claude] that access to reserve did not justify being higher than him especially when Sety [Claude] and Rana can also use it or Corple can buy it too since he has A staves (not that he should) i'm just saying, that before promoting they are all similar, but after promotion even for that 15 minutes of being good it makes Corple [Levn] better than Corple [Claude]

Sharlow gets Libro, too. And Libro is only 35 exp, so it's still over 50 uses before promotion. And 500 to repair. 1750 exp is earned from 50 uses, so a civilian makes level 18, I guess. He could get by with under 50 uses, but that's a lot of uses in one chapter so that he can Holsety all of the last one.

So they are similar before promotion and both promote in the finale, yet Corple is actually useful if given Holsety and has Skills.

How much Gold does a unit get from his/her father/mother? I couldn't find it anywhere.

I'm not sure either, but I was talking about letting him inherit a useless ring to sell leter. Money and inheritance really isn't an issue for a staff users as people make it out to be. When everyone else is close to maxing level too, i'm not seeing why Corple shouldn't get a few villages/civilians later too. Its not like everyone even needs more money than the arena by the time Corple appears

Edited October 8, 2009 by Brighton

[Paperblade]

How important is prayer on Nanna? Also, does it matter what the pairing does to the sibling?

Nanna[Azel] looks pretty decent compared to Nanna[Fin]

105% 55% 40% 20% 45% 30% 15% 50%

95% 65% 7% 30% 35% 35% 12% 65%

She has +10% hp, -10% str, +33% mag, -10% skl, +10% spd, -5% def, -15% luck.

So she has more spd and she'll have decent enough magic to wield a magic sword. More speed growth means more speed. Since she has swords, I'm not sure if she needs the extra speed for doubling, but it is a fair amount of speed eventually. She'll even have more hp to make up for any def loss. Also, she'll recover a lot more hp for other units. The str loss doesn't stop her from capping str at level 23 on average anyway, instead of level 20.

I guess the main thing is she's faster and heals better and can use magic swords quite well with 14 magic at level 23. That's similar to Fee[Levin] with magic swords. Certainly better than Leaf or anyone other than Fee[Levin] will do with any of them.

I'm just asking if maybe she has a right to exist.

Would like to make a quick correction here, since it seems to be forgotten in every comparison with FinNanna, although I doubt it will change much because Nanna can't use Recover to make up for wtfFalablood. Fin!Nanna gets a Ch. 7 convo that boosts her Speed by 5, making Fin!Nanna faster than all other Nannas. Levin!Nanna doesn't surpass Fin!Nanna until promotion, and even then the lead never even reaches half a point of Speed because they're like 2 away from the cap so pew pew cap ramming, compared to Fin!Nanna winning Speed by 3-4 prior to that, never mind someone who doesn't pass on lolsety blood like Azel, whose Nanna is still behind by like .75 Speed even at max level.

Which means that AzelNanna vs. FinNanna is like, a bunch of magic (which admittedly is really nice), like 3HP (does anyone even care, especially considering how ridiculous HP values get in this game, especially Gen 2?), and 1 Res (meh) vs. overkill Str, 1-5 Spd (depending on level), Prayer (combined with the Speed buff and Earth Sword makes Arena much easier), and some Skl (20% is really really terrible since Luck doesn't give Hit and weapon accuracy isn't balling out of control unless you're using the Hero Sword or Killer Bow, especially since Nanna is already at a disadvantage since she can't benefit from her own Charisma). Plus like minor Defense leads (probably worth slightly more than the HP/Res lead, if anything at all)

Yeah, I missed the +5 speed until later. The speed boost is even really early, too. The skill growth of Nanna[Azel] bothers me too, but I was hoping that using swords would mean she wouldn't miss too much. Her best weapon (Earth Sword) only has 70 hit in both its forms, though, so that may be a problem. Also, at one point I was concerned about the Earth Sword's 12 wt at 2 range but was hoping she'd double enough anyway. I'm not sure if a gap this size between the two versions is justified because of those concerns.

Azel!Nanna doesn't get 10AS with the ranged Earth Sword until about Level 25, and doesn't break 5AS until promotion, and doesn't even get 0AS until she's like Level 10, meaning she actually might not double Bow Armors in Ch. 8 and Generals in general, Thunder Mages she's just SoL, and bosses? Forget about it. She can double with other weapons because lolswords (unless it's a staff user, because they don't get weighed down). I wouldn't rely on the Earth Sword anyway though because it's only got 10 uses and costs as much as a holy weapon per use for no good reason (pretty sure that the 10 use thing is an error and it should be 50 uses, since that would put its expense on par with Resire, but then again I guess the price of tea in China doesn't matter for the tier list).

Anyway, with something else like a Blade or normal Sword, she has like 7/10AS, which is a step up since it means she's doubling like everything save staff users and that asshole swordfighter that's in Arena. Oh, 1-2 of the Mage sisters (the Wind for sure and maybe the Thundah one)

The skill problem is only really an issue if she's not in range of Charismabots/Celice/her lover (not all of them, she only needs to be in range of like 1-2) and is using a Blade vs. a Sword/Wind/Lance user (Sword/Wind is stupid fast and Lance has WTA), I think. And I guess in the arena since there's a +20 Avoid boost there and she can't get leadership/etc. so she'll probably have issues there. Most FE4 enemies have single digit (or worse) AS and only a handful of bosses even have Luck at all, so their Avoid is only really an issue if there's something with leadership nearby.

She might have some issues doubling the Forest Knights in Ch. 9 (all 3 of them) if she uses a heavier sword, and even FinNanna isn't doubling Musar without using a 1 weight Sword. There's also the Forrests, but they usually die to Fee flying over to save the villages.

Might have issues with the Forrests in Ch. 10 (15AS) and the staff using casters (13-17AS, depending on which one we're talking about), plus most bosses (Ridale has 19AS and a Hero Sword, Hilda has 17AS, and the rest that are fast probably like OHKO her anyway).

And in the Epilogue there's some stupid fast enemies (Boyce has 24AS, 20AS if we're attacking him at range for the Thunder Sword), Scorpio has 20, PegSisters have 25/18, Dark Warlords have a ton, plus generic Sword users generally have around 15-16.

So the only thing she really has to worry about are bosses and the few Forrests/Forest Knights every chapter.

Personally, I'd just steal Leaf's Light Sword if I really wanted AzelNanna doing offense, and have Delmud/Fee use the Thunder/Wind Swords (or split it some other way, idc).

Oh, and the swordfighters in the Arena might pose some trouble for AzelNanna.

The extra magic is nice, though, I think anyway. Too bad she doesn't use range in the arena, though. (I think that's the case, right? A magic sword user in the arena just attacks at one range.)

Yeah, the magic lead is probably enough to make AzelNanna the best Nanna (save maybe maybe maybe ClaudeNanna depending on how much upgrading to B Staves is worth vs. no Pursuit and worse stats, since B Staves means she can use Recover so the magic difference only matters with Staves that AzelNanna can't use anyway).

And yeah, if you have a 1-2 range weapon you have to fight at 1 range, which kinda sucks since I think Azel would rather fight Bow users than get crapped on by the Swordfighter halfway through every time. >_>

Edited October 8, 2009 by Paperblade

[Narga_Rocks]

So they are similar before promotion and both promote in the finale, yet Corple is actually useful if given Holsety and has Skills.

I'm not sure how much good promoting is doing Sharlow, but he does it earlier thanks to Elite. If 15 minutes of Holsety isn't worth much, though, I'm not entire sure what 30 minutes of being promoted without Holsety is worth. And Sharlow can't use Reserve before promotion.

I'm not sure either, but I was talking about letting him inherit a useless ring to sell leter. Money and inheritance really isn't an issue for a staff users as people make it out to be. When everyone else is close to maxing level too, i'm not seeing why Corple shouldn't get a few villages/civilians later too. Its not like everyone even needs more money than the arena by the time Corple appears

The reason for my asking was that I figured Levin should have a bunch of money from clearing out arenas. That should help Corple[Levin] to be closer to equal to Corple[Claude] before promotion minus the Valkyrie Staff.

@Paperblade:

Yeah, I guess just taking Leaf's Light Sword is best. Only 12000 to pick it up and she's got the same speed growth/base as Leaf and a better Mag growth/base with Azel. And 5 wt means she's not weighed down bad enough to cause too many problems (apparently), and the Earth sword's stupid 10 uses and high repair costs and high 2 range wt is avoided unless she really needs the self-healing for the arena or something (2 range wt still avoided, but high mag not helping). And Dalmud gets one of the things you said. It's just too bad her magic and speed promotion bonuses aren't so great.

And I think it's annoying she doesn't get her own charisma. Does Celice get his own stars? It's been so long since I played. My savestates seem to be January 2006.

[Salad Utensil]

I'm not sure how much good promoting is doing Sharlow, but he does it earlier thanks to Elite. If 15 minutes of Holsety isn't worth much, though, I'm not entire sure what 30 minutes of being promoted without Holsety is worth. And Sharlow can't use Reserve before promotion.

Trying to show that Sharlow's Elite is overrated since neither will promote until the Finale anyway (or get returned to the castle and be too far away to help). I'm not really advocating for Corple [Levn] to be top tier or anything, just to be noted as a good Corple pairing and recognized as the best among all the crappy Corples

The reason for my asking was that I figured Levin should have a bunch of money from clearing out arenas. That should help Corple[Levin] to be closer to equal to Corple[Claude] before promotion minus the Valkyrie Staff.

I'm pretty sure at most its only 5000 moar gold.

Not pairing Corple with Claude for Levn is basically summed up as no useless Valkyrie staff and no reserve inheritence for better skills and stats and useful dodge tanking in the Finale (Corple has Prayer :) and it'd be cool if it activates with Holsety)

BTW on my Fee [Claude] > Fee [Levn] analysis, no one responded to it... does anyone agree?

Edited October 9, 2009 by Brighton

[grandjackal]

To answer the question on appropriate times the Valkyrie staff has uses.

-Thracia, fighting Orion's forces. You can bury more people deeper rather than having to go around or having Holsety solo it. With Celice leadership, Nanna and Delmud Charisma and possibly Laylea as well, we could risk it. If someone dies, no biggie. We're near the end of a chapter and about to start a new one. We can warp Corple back, we revive whoever was lost (I highly doubt more than one person would die with that much leadership around), or he can revive them next chapter (not like they have to do the arena immediately, as much as it helps).

-Fighting Arvis. Here's the skinny. Ares attacks with Mysoltain, retreats. Holsety Arthyr attacks, retreats. Celice attacks with Tyrfing, retreats. Shanan attacks. If by some miracle he's still alive, he will probably kill Shanan. But now, I get to have Holsety Arthur and Ares attack again rather than just Shanan. Hell, apply this to while Celice is out getting the Tyrfing itself! Allowing a sacrifice of a foot unit in the name of killing Alvis that much faster to the point he could be dead by the time Celice returns with the Tyrfing? I could easily live with it.

-Lets face it, the first throws of Grandbell endgame are a pain in the ass. Sniper magic, ballistae and status staffs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't survive the encounter. Luckily there's a path north of the starting position to the next castle, so whoever died can quickly return to the front. Even past that, next is a goddamn master knight with the friggin' Swanchika (anyone think it might be bad translation for Svanchka? Sounds Russian, I'll look into it I guess) that hoves around, lookin' fo' yo' ass.

These instances are when the Valk staff come in handy. Considering the span of Sety joining and Corple joining is very small, and I doubt the final throws of chapter 8 are any trouble at all, I'd say this is the only time the Valk staff actually matters, all after Corple joins anyways. This leaves a superior Sety to do something else, as Corple can handle all the healing. This is better than forcing Sety/Claude to do both, as he could be doing something better with someone else as his father (and yes, why not Noish? He will have a high magic base and pursuit regardless, what does he care about Luck and Resistance? Now he has actual durability, Charge, and Berserk, which easily trumps that).

You're basically robbing Sety putting his offense to good use, when with Corple/Claude can do the other half of Sety/Claude's job just as well. Corple/Claude lets us use a superior Sety all the time, as Corple Claude frees him up of the responsibility, as Corple/Claude has nothing better to do.

Speaking of Noish as his father, this gives us another good thing-a superior Fee. We now got a more durable flying berserking charging flying psycho bitch with actual strength to speak of, and the brave lance from her momma. the only problem with this couple is Sety inherits only rings, but I can't imagine anything Sety could possibly need from anyone.

Making Claude Sety's father is unecessary really.

Also, don't give me this "no one should die" bullshit. I can bring them back from the dead, I have no reason not to do so. If someone's death can equate in faster or easier completion of something, it can be worth the effort. The Valkyrie staff allows us to not only do it, but get rid of the entire penalty of it (unlike FEDS, where it's just suicide meatshields).

Edited October 9, 2009 by France

[Salad Utensil]

To answer the question on appropriate times the Valkyrie staff has uses.

-Thracia, fighting Orion's forces. You can bury more people deeper rather than having to go around or having Holsety solo it. With Celice leadership, Nanna and Delmud Charisma and possibly Laylea as well, we could risk it. If someone dies, no biggie. We're near the end of a chapter and about to start a new one. We can warp Corple back, we revive whoever was lost (I highly doubt more than one person would die with that much leadership around), or he can revive them next chapter (not like they have to do the arena immediately, as much as it helps).

-Fighting Arvis. Here's the skinny. Ares attacks with Mysoltain, retreats. Holsety Arthyr attacks, retreats. Celice attacks with Tyrfing, retreats. Shanan attacks. If by some miracle he's still alive, he will probably kill Shanan. But now, I get to have Holsety Arthur and Ares attack again rather than just Shanan. Hell, apply this to while Celice is out getting the Tyrfing itself! Allowing a sacrifice of a foot unit in the name of killing Alvis that much faster to the point he could be dead by the time Celice returns with the Tyrfing? I could easily live with it.

-Lets face it, the first throws of Grandbell endgame are a pain in the ass. Sniper magic, ballistae and status staffs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't survive the encounter. Luckily there's a path north of the starting position to the next castle, so whoever died can quickly return to the front. Even past that, next is a goddamn master knight with the friggin' Swanchika (anyone think it might be bad translation for Svanchka? Sounds Russian, I'll look into it I guess) that hoves around, lookin' fo' yo' ass.

These instances are when the Valk staff come in handy. Considering the span of Sety joining and Corple joining is very small, and I doubt the final throws of chapter 8 are any trouble at all, I'd say this is the only time the Valk staff actually matters, all after Corple joins anyways. This leaves a superior Sety to do something else, as Corple can handle all the healing. This is better than forcing Sety/Claude to do both, as he could be doing something better with someone else as his father (and yes, why not Noish? He will have a high magic base and pursuit regardless, what does he care about Luck and Resistance? Now he has actual durability, Charge, and Berserk, which easily trumps that).

You're basically robbing Sety putting his offense to good use, when with Corple/Claude can do the other half of Sety/Claude's job just as well. Corple/Claude lets us use a superior Sety all the time, as Corple Claude frees him up of the responsibility, as Corple/Claude has nothing better to do.

Speaking of Noish as his father, this gives us another good thing-a superior Fee. We now got a more durable flying berserking charging flying psycho bitch with actual strength to speak of, and the brave lance from her momma. the only problem with this couple is Sety inherits only rings, but I can't imagine anything Sety could possibly need from anyone.

Making Claude Sety's father is unecessary really.

Also, don't give me this "no one should die" bullshit. I can bring them back from the dead, I have no reason not to do so. If someone's death can equate in faster or easier completion of something, it can be worth the effort. The Valkyrie staff allows us to not only do it, but get rid of the entire penalty of it (unlike FEDS, where it's just suicide meatshields).

There are definitely better tactics than that to handle those situations >_>. Since when did that knight with a 20 weight weapon cause problem? Holsety might be useful. Oh wait Corple is our only Holsety user, isn't it convienent that he is promoted by now and can pwn that knight instead of sacrificing someone (which still isn't necessary BTW)

It isn't BS since character shouldn't dies cause it kills your combat rank (which I don't see why combat shouldn't be part of effenciency)

Really I feel like you didn't read my post I made in response to your individual points a page back. I gave you 2 burdens to meet yet you met neither. You say that "no one should dies is BS, yet you make the claim that the cost to repeatedly repair the staff (like you listed in your examples) is efficient. There is a difference between a speed run and efficiency you know. The tactics rank in this game is generous:

Approximate turns to take per chapter

Prologue - ~15

Chapter 1 - ~35

Chapter 2 - ~40

Chapter 3 - ~38

Chapter 4 - ~40

Chapter 5 - ~26

Chapter 6 - ~33

Chapter 7 - ~42

Chapter 8 - ~28

Chapter 9 - ~28

Chapter 10 - ~26

Epilogue - ~30

for A rank in tactics plus ~20 turns to spare.

Taking an extra turn to accomplish a difficult task is obviously better than wasting 1312393891238k to repeatedly spam a staff that is useless due to game mechanics.

If you would actually respond to someone's arguments for a change before spewing a huge wall of text to overwhelm your opponent that doesn't counter someone else's points and is full of half developed arguments, there is no point debating you! If you really wanna use the stupid valkyre instead of resetting, you might as well use it with Sety in case a killer Bastilla kills Patty or something (Sarcasm)

Edited October 9, 2009 by Brighton

[Blademaster!]

To answer the question on appropriate times the Valkyrie staff has uses.

-Thracia, fighting Orion's forces. You can bury more people deeper rather than having to go around or having Holsety solo it. With Celice leadership, Nanna and Delmud Charisma and possibly Laylea as well, we could risk it. If someone dies, no biggie. We're near the end of a chapter and about to start a new one. We can warp Corple back, we revive whoever was lost (I highly doubt more than one person would die with that much leadership around), or he can revive them next chapter (not like they have to do the arena immediately, as much as it helps).

-Fighting Arvis. Here's the skinny. Ares attacks with Mysoltain, retreats. Holsety Arthyr attacks, retreats. Celice attacks with Tyrfing, retreats. Shanan attacks. If by some miracle he's still alive, he will probably kill Shanan. But now, I get to have Holsety Arthur and Ares attack again rather than just Shanan. Hell, apply this to while Celice is out getting the Tyrfing itself! Allowing a sacrifice of a foot unit in the name of killing Alvis that much faster to the point he could be dead by the time Celice returns with the Tyrfing? I could easily live with it.

-Lets face it, the first throws of Grandbell endgame are a pain in the ass. Sniper magic, ballistae and status staffs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't survive the encounter. Luckily there's a path north of the starting position to the next castle, so whoever died can quickly return to the front. Even past that, next is a goddamn master knight with the friggin' Swanchika (anyone think it might be bad translation for Svanchka? Sounds Russian, I'll look into it I guess) that hoves around, lookin' fo' yo' ass.

These instances are when the Valk staff come in handy. Considering the span of Sety joining and Corple joining is very small, and I doubt the final throws of chapter 8 are any trouble at all, I'd say this is the only time the Valk staff actually matters, all after Corple joins anyways. This leaves a superior Sety to do something else, as Corple can handle all the healing. This is better than forcing Sety/Claude to do both, as he could be doing something better with someone else as his father (and yes, why not Noish? He will have a high magic base and pursuit regardless, what does he care about Luck and Resistance? Now he has actual durability, Charge, and Berserk, which easily trumps that).

You're basically robbing Sety putting his offense to good use, when with Corple/Claude can do the other half of Sety/Claude's job just as well. Corple/Claude lets us use a superior Sety all the time, as Corple Claude frees him up of the responsibility, as Corple/Claude has nothing better to do.

Speaking of Noish as his father, this gives us another good thing-a superior Fee. We now got a more durable flying berserking charging flying psycho bitch with actual strength to speak of, and the brave lance from her momma. the only problem with this couple is Sety inherits only rings, but I can't imagine anything Sety could possibly need from anyone.

Making Claude Sety's father is unecessary really.

Also, don't give me this "no one should die" bullshit. I can bring them back from the dead, I have no reason not to do so. If someone's death can equate in faster or easier completion of something, it can be worth the effort. The Valkyrie staff allows us to not only do it, but get rid of the entire penalty of it (unlike FEDS, where it's just suicide meatshields).

There are definitely better tactics than that to handle those situations >_>. Since when did that knight with a 20 weight weapon cause problem? Holsety might be useful. Oh wait Corple is our only Holsety user, isn't it convienent that he is promoted by now and can pwn that knight instead of sacrificing someone (which still isn't necessary BTW)

It isn't BS since character shouldn't dies cause it kills your combat rank (which I don't see why combat shouldn't be part of effenciency)

If you revive someone with the valkyrie staff, it actually RESTORES your rank, so to speak. Non the less, this isn't a ranked tier list so.....

Also, just because Burian has a 20 weight weapon doesn't mean he isn't a hard boss. He's probably one of the hardest in the game, if not the hardest if it wasn't for Holsety (not counting Julius for obvious reasons). Your probably only dealing about ~10-2 damage against him without getting a critical, and only Holesety will really allow you to deal more than that. Additionally, he has 80HP and charge. He has charge activate about 40% of the time which will probably lead him to kill someone since the swanchika is a ranged weapon. And Corple is the worst holsety user to fight him with, since if his averages screw him over just a bit, he can get one shoted by him, though corple has the potential to drop his hit to zero. Also, he has a decent chance of not one rounding him and if he survives, he'll likely run away and may have the possibility of being healed a bit before he runs away, so.....

Edited October 9, 2009 by Blademaster!

[Dat Nick]

No one hates on Sety for six movement?

No, because HighPriests have 5 movement.

Reserve, Charm, and Rescue are lost to Corple when Levn is the dad.

And Reserve is a notable loss. Corple can actually heal efficiently out of the box with it.

Seriously? you are saying Corple [Levn] is worse because Reserve isn't passed down?

yes. Two chapters of being useful and one chapter of just healwhoring with no purpose which is required to get Corple to 20>>>One chapter of Holsety with lol5move and bad concrete durability, and low spd cap makes it worse. Furthermore, Holsety at a point where your army is a bunch of Skynet products doesn't stand out that much anymore, especially not with 5 move.

Berserk is not effencient since it still forces you to stay out of the enemy's range or it might still attack you.

Attack another group while the boss is murdering his own troops via them suiciding on him. How isn't it efficient, really? More enemies die in more places in the same amount of time.

Additional stuff, People are all for Leaf getting the pursuit ring, yet they don't let Corple inherit a useless second return ring, something to sell for money? If Holsety that was inherited is still in decent condition he has no need for money at all assuming he promotes at the Finale.

wtf is this shit? Nobody has ever assumed Pursuit Ring on Leaf, and if they did I'm not letting it fly. He's a contender for it and a good one but still not the sole contender. Using false analogies will not help your case.

My point was that Corple [Levn] was similar enough to Corple [Claude] that access to reserve did not justify being higher than him especially when Sety [Claude] and Rana can also use it or Corple can buy it too since he has A staves (not that he should) i'm just saying

Oh, but the same doesn't apply to Holsety?

What is it with you contradicting yourself every other post?

yet Corple is actually useful if given Holsety and has Skills.

Who gives a damn about Corple's skills? They do nothing for his poor durability or move. His offense isn't the problem.

just to be noted as a good Corple pairing and recognized as the best among all the crappy Corples

ClaudeCorple is not a crappy Corple.

dodge tanking

no? Enemy hit breaks 100 in this game and Corple's avo only barely pushes that. He is not invincible, at all.

[Eltoshen]

Also, just because Burian has a 20 weight weapon doesn't mean he isn't a hard boss. He's probably one of the hardest in the game, if not the hardest if it wasn't for Holsety (not counting Julius for obvious reasons). Your probably only dealing about ~10-2 damage against him without getting a critical, and only Holesety will really allow you to deal more than that. Additionally, he has 80HP and charge. He has charge activate about 40% of the time which will probably lead him to kill someone since the swanchika is a ranged weapon. And Corple is the worst holsety user to fight him with, since if his averages screw him over just a bit, he can get one shoted by him, though corple has the potential to drop his hit to zero. Also, he has a decent chance of not one rounding him and if he survives, he'll likely run away and may have the possibility of being healed a bit before he runs away, so.....

Alvis is far harder than Burian unless you want to argue the fact that Burian actually moves.

Shanan with Balmunk or Aless with Mistoltin can easily kill him. He doesn't have awareness.

Alvis has awareness and big shield, not to mention he's sitting on a castle. Plus, Alvis attacking with Falaflame gives him 70 might, hitting resistance. Burian with Swanchika gives him 57 might, hitting defense. If it even matters anymore, Alvis is statistically superior to Burian in everything except luck and defense, which he loses by 7 thanks to Swanchika's +20 boost.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Paperblade]

@Paperblade:

Yeah, I guess just taking Leaf's Light Sword is best. Only 12000 to pick it up and she's got the same speed growth/base as Leaf and a better Mag growth/base with Azel. And 5 wt means she's not weighed down bad enough to cause too many problems (apparently), and the Earth sword's stupid 10 uses and high repair costs and high 2 range wt is avoided unless she really needs the self-healing for the arena or something (2 range wt still avoided, but high mag not helping). And Dalmud gets one of the things you said. It's just too bad her magic and speed promotion bonuses aren't so great.

Yeah. I'd probably give Delmud a Magic Sword just for the 1-2 range and then give him a good melee sword since Hezul blood guarantees him good Str, plus arena etc.

And it's not like Leaf is using the Light Sword after promoting when he has access to everything save Holy Weapons and Resire (or lolaura if the player was actually foolish enough to choose it instead). Why use the Light Sword when you can just use Lightning. >_>

And I think it's annoying she doesn't get her own charisma. Does Celice get his own stars? It's been so long since I played. My savestates seem to be January 2006.

You get the benefit of your own leadership but not of your own Charisma. Part of the reason why bosses like Alvis and Arion are a PITA, since you can't dodgetank them and half your team can't hit them.

[Narga_Rocks]

You get the benefit of your own leadership but not of your own Charisma. Part of the reason why bosses like Alvis and Arion are a PITA, since you can't dodgetank them and half your team can't hit them.

I don't think the developers were considering balance when giving castles 30 avoid and sticking units with stars on them. It's basically telling you to only use certain characters if you want to even touch them.

[Salad Utensil]

BTW I'd appreciate it if you don't call my arguments Shit.

No, because HighPriests have 5 movement.

Does six move actually see significantly more combat?

And Reserve is a notable loss. Corple can actually heal efficiently out of the box with it.

You say Corple without Reserve can't? It might be more economically just to not pass it down so that you get it faster, but w/e

yes. Two chapters of being useful and one chapter of just healwhoring with no purpose which is required to get Corple to 20>>>One chapter of Holsety with lol5move and bad concrete durability, and low spd cap makes it worse. Furthermore, Holsety at a point where your army is a bunch of Skynet products doesn't stand out that much anymore, especially not with 5 move.

Heal whoring isn't useful, PC are still getting healed right? How else does any form of Corple gain levels?

I don't know, sure reserve makes him more useful, but is it really much more comparatively, when Corple [Levn] can just buy it?

Attack another group while the boss is murdering his own troops via them suiciding on him. How isn't it efficient, really? More enemies die in more places in the same amount of time.

Your just limited your movement to stay away from the berserked enemy, how is that efficient? I'd think it is faster to just split your group up rather than focus everyone into a single large clump. A single berserked character isn't garaunteed to beat up the other group either. You just spent time waiting for the enemy to be unberserked only to kill what it couldn't (sorry if this sounds confusing, but I'm not sure how else to express this in words)

wtf is this shit? Nobody has ever assumed Pursuit Ring on Leaf, and if they did I'm not letting it fly. He's a contender for it and a good one but still not the sole contender. Using false analogies will not help your case.

The purpose was to show that passing something down to a character should be considered for $$ and to increase his use, like giving Corple the second return ring for cash, I'm not fiating that Leaf should just get the pursuit ring automatically (bad example, sorry)

Oh, but the same doesn't apply to Holsety?

What is it with you contradicting yourself every other post?

There is no contradiction, point out how. The only thing going for Corple [Claude] is Reserve. Levn is actually good in the arena, he can actually afford to spare Corple a return ring and some B staves to pass down. You can easily sell the return ring and give reserve to Corple. Tada Corple [Claude] and Corple [Levn] exactly the same now before promotion. I guess Corple is bad because he denied someone the second return ring? I'm not advocating Corple [Levn] should get the reserve staff, but Corple [Claude] can just as easily not inherit the reserve staff for faster access too. They are still equal before promotion.

Who gives a damn about Corple's skills? They do nothing for his poor durability or move. His offense isn't the problem.

Corple has poor durability with Holsety and Prayer? what? Didn't Mekkah (before it got erased) that Arthur [Fin] was good due to prayer?

ClaudeCorple is not a crappy Corple.

Corple is always crappy Corple [Levn] is the best among the crap since they are in bottom tier >_>. Bottom tier means decent now?

no? Enemy hit breaks 100 in this game and Corple's avo only barely pushes that. He is not invincible, at all.

Tanking doesn't mean you can take 1028138 hits either. I'm not seeing your point here, no one is ever invincible. Your Holsety user will always (besides Shannan who can't hit one range since Holy Axe Weapon is always 1-2 range) have the highest evasion. Either Corple can dodge tank or no one can when you do Corple [Levn]

Fine I'll make a conclusion from the points brought up

Corple [Levn]=Corple [Claude]

before promotion.

Reserve is dropped before Corple is joined by an enemy if not passed down. Levin can actually do well in the arena and can pass down B staves and a return ring, unlike claude who just fails for his lack of skills. Corple [Levn] sells the return ring and buys Reserve (easily can take 1 turn to do). Look they are now exactly the same except for what its worth Corple [Levn] has the potential to be a good dodger and attacker.

After promotion (Lets say Finale) obiviously:

Holsety!corple > no Holsety!corple

The win is the marginal benefit

Its really that simple. Prepromotion they are equal, after promoting they aren't (its obvious who is better).

I eagarly await your rebuttal on this and the Fee[Claude] > Fee [Levn] I proposed

Edited October 9, 2009 by Brighton

[Dat Nick]

BTW I'd appreciate it if you don't call my arguments Shit.

...I didn't?

The most I said was that you have a penchant for contradicting yourself to make your arguments fly. You do. Ex, you once said "Oh we can afford to baby Corple because your other guys are uber by now anyway" and then you turn around to say "But berserk staff sux because it saps teh EE X PEE!"

"wtf is this shit" was a different way of wording "What are you trying to pull", "How does this even make sense", et cetera.

Does six move actually see significantly more combat?

It sees much more than five, for sure.

You say Corple without Reserve can't?

Yes. Does anybody really care that Corple can heal a single target when we have so many other people to do that already? Reserve offers a unique ability nobody else can do, making Corple actually stand out upon his join time.

It might be more economically just to not pass it down so that you get it faster, but w/e

And who, praytell, would use it?

Heal whoring isn't useful

So you admit we're having Corple go out of his way to spam staves and having funds poured into him for the sole purpose of benefiting himself, not the team.

...At least you're honest.

Your just limited your movement to stay away from the berserked enemy, how is that efficient?

wtf are you talking about? How did we limit our movement? That area is being taken care of as the boss picks off his troops one by one. Why even bother with it? Going there will only result in us getting caught up in the confusion, so who the hell cares that our movement is restricted? Move on to the next area.

I'd think it is faster to just split your group up rather than focus everyone into a single large clump.

You're ignoring the concept that since we have one group of enemeis suiciding against the boss, there is no longer ANY need whatsoever to split our units into groups unless we're using three at a time. But thanks for listing another way Berserk increases efficiency, it allows more of your units in the same place at the same time, meaning you kill the remaining enemies faster.

A single berserked character isn't garaunteed to beat up the other group either.

um bosses are generally 5x more powerful than generic noobs

so uh yeah

You just spent time waiting for the enemy to be unberserked only to kill what it couldn't

WHAT? The only way how we could have wasted time is if we just spammed end turn waiting for the enemy to get unberserked. You aren't making any sense whatsoever.

There is no contradiction, point out how.

You know what else Sety can get? Holsety. But you don't consider that? Explain this to me like I'm a two year old.

he can actually afford to spare Corple a return ring and some B staves to pass down.

Weapons don't get passed down if the father can't use them.

Corple has poor durability with Holsety and Prayer?

Where did Prayer come from, and who really cares about it? It only saves Corple for one turn. Nothing worth dumping 40k into him considering we're already giving him ridiculous amounts of favoritism in the form of staff funds and a free pass on promotion in final.

Either Corple can dodge tank or no one can when you do Corple [Levn]

The point is he's a lousy dodge tank. He's getting hit rates on some things which are a bigger deal than in other FEs, 1 RN and all, and his concrete durability SUCKS. Two hits and it's toodle-loo.

Furthermore, "nobody is a tank" What kind of argument is that? The point is Corple does a poor job at dodge tanking.