FE4 Gen 2 list

[Renall]

@ T.W.I.L.K.I.T.R.I.: Apparently Yurius warps away without taking Ishtar with him, and she doesn't show up again on the final chapter. Am I wrong?

They both leave, as far as I can remember.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

@ T.W.I.L.K.I.T.R.I.: Apparently Yurius warps away without taking Ishtar with him, and she doesn't show up again on the final chapter. Am I wrong?

They both leave, as far as I can remember.

[Dat Nick]

they're trampling every stinking enemy in the way

Are they?

btw I don't see Aless gaining 13 levels over the course of 1/4th of 7 and all of 8 as very plausable, but what the hell I'll throw you a bone.

Aless Steel Blade: 57 HP, 40 atk, 14 AS, 20 def, 13 res, 40 avo

Armour lv 19 (hero lance): 59 hp, 29 atk, 100 hit, -8 avo, 15 def, 1 res

Armour lv 19 (hero bow): 59 hp, 28 atk, 100 hit, 0 avo, 15 def, 1 res

Armour lv 19 (sleep sword): 59 hp, 22 atk, 90 hit, -8 avo, 15 def, 1 res

Kannatz lv 20 (silver lance): 60 hp, 36 atk, 104 hit, -2 avo, 18 def, 5 res

===========

Altenna’s Crew

===========

Dragon Rider lv 12 (javelin): 47 hp, 24 atk, 76 hit, -20 avo, 11 def, 1 res

Dragon Rider lv 12 (sleep sword): 47 hp, 20 atk, 86 hit, -8 avo, 11 def, 1 res

==========

Musar’s Crew

==========

Great Knight lv 20 (silver axe): 60 hp, 40 atk, 96 hit, -10 avo, 16 def, 5 res

Duke Knight lv 20 (silver lance): 60 hp, 38 atk, 106 hit, 2 avo, 14 def, 5 res

Forrest Knight lv 20 (silver blade): 60 hp, 34 atk, 102 hit, 24 avo, 14 def. 5 res

Musar lv 30 (tornado): 65 hp, 43 atk, 122 hit, 63 avo, 22 def, 19 res

=========

Grutia Castle

=========

Ballista lv 18 (iron): 48 hp, 30 atk, 70 hit, -50 avo, 15 def, 0 res

Ballista lv 20 (killer): 50 hp, 26 atk, 112 hit, -48 avo, 6 def, 0 res

Juda lv 22 (fenrir): 62 hp, 35 atk, 102 hit, -8 avo, 12 def, 18 res

==========

Thracia Castle

==========

Dragon Rider lv 15 (javelin): 50 hp, 25 atk, 78 hit, -18 avo, 12 def, 1 res

Dragon Knight lv 23 (hero lance): 63 hp, 31 atk, 126 hit, 20 avo, 17 def, 2 res

Dragon Knight lv 24 (slim lance): 64 hp, 29 atk, 118 hit, 14 avo, 18 def, 2 res

Dragon Knight lv 24 (sleep sword): 64 hp, 25 atk, 98 hit, 2 avo, 18 def, 2 res

Offensively he fails to ORKO everything except those two wyverns. Defensively he is not impressive. The hero weapon armors 4RKO him, the mount knights 3RKO him if axe and 4RKO if anything else.

Mistolteen doesn't even fully protect him from the Fenrir Druid: He still will get hit often and takes a good amount of damage. Same with the Ballistae. Then that Hero Lance Wyvern also 3RKOs him. Don't buy "he tramples over everything" for a second.

And since you seem to have worded it yourself, "Alvis is piss easy" and he's the hardest boss in the game, I think Shanan's usefulness is pretty much overshadowed by Aless' higher movement.

What's Light, Deadly, and Weighs Six Ounces?

A Sparrow with a machine gun.

...That riddle was about as logical as this statement.

wall of text declaring Oifaye>Lakche

Erm, Oifaye is already above them, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to accomplish.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Kriemhild]

Shanan's Avoid is actually a pretty big factor. When he's equipped with Balmung, there are very very few enemies (like Alvis and Ishtar) that can kill him. He pretty much dodges everything else. Aless, on the other hand, has a chance of dying and is vulnerable to more enemies than Shanan is. But Aless has a mount and with Mistoltin (which criticals nearly every single time), he definitely gets to slay a whole lot more enemies than Shanan. Shanan still kills a lot (Balmung still has 30 MT and Shanan has Meteor) but he just doesn't kill as much as Aless.

I still think Shanan > Aless. Shanan comes a bit earlier and has better Str, Skl, and Spd than Aless. Once both Aless and Shanan are raised enough, both of them are too overpowered to judge between them imo.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Why is Aless with a Steel Blade?

[Renall]

Aless is better as part of the total unit of horse troops that can zoom ahead on most maps. Shanan is a better individual character. I'm not sure which one you'd weight, but since this is a tier list I'd presume it's individual character ability.

I'm really not sure.

[Eltoshen]

Oh, another point I'd like to make.

Base Aless can take a hit from Ishtar and survive. Shanan can't (even if you give him a few levels). Aless can actually kill Ishtar as well, with Critical. IIRC, I've always killed Ishtar with Aless. By the way, she has Ambush, which means Shanan won't even be able to react before being struck down.

[Dat Nick]

Why is Aless with a Steel Blade?

Because he has more funding issues than Shanan due to his difficulty of falling in love with Laylea in a reasonable timeframe.

Base Aless can take a hit from Ishtar and survive. Shanan can't (even if you give him a few levels). Aless can actually kill Ishtar as well, with Critical. IIRC, I've always killed Ishtar with Aless. By the way, she has Ambush, which means Shanan won't even be able to react before being struck down.

Ishtar lv 27 (Thammer): 50 hp, 58 atk, 178 hit, 73 avo, 10 def, 31 res

22 Shanan: 94 avo base, +20 Forest, +30 Charisma, 10 from Lakche, and 20 from Serlis is...

174

oh noes 4% hit on him

And again, Ishtar is easy.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Why is Aless with a Steel Blade?

Because he has more funding issues than Shanan due to his difficulty of falling in love with Laylea in a reasonable timeframe.

Odd, I don't remember ever having money troubles with him and I've gone a few playthroughs where he hasn't fallen in love with Laylea.

Shanan's usually another source of income for my other units. Make him fall in love with Patty and that's more money to give to others.

Edited September 26, 2009 by ?!

[Renall]

Oh, another point I'd like to make.

Base Aless can take a hit from Ishtar and survive. Shanan can't (even if you give him a few levels). Aless can actually kill Ishtar as well, with Critical. IIRC, I've always killed Ishtar with Aless. By the way, she has Ambush, which means Shanan won't even be able to react before being struck down.

That's an extremely narrow set of circumstances considering she appears like three times total. Three enemies is a small portion of the total game. Plus Julius will kill her for you in ch10.

[Eltoshen]

Why is Aless with a Steel Blade?

Because he has more funding issues than Shanan due to his difficulty of falling in love with Laylea in a reasonable timeframe.

Base Aless can take a hit from Ishtar and survive. Shanan can't (even if you give him a few levels). Aless can actually kill Ishtar as well, with Critical. IIRC, I've always killed Ishtar with Aless. By the way, she has Ambush, which means Shanan won't even be able to react before being struck down.

Ishtar lv 27 (Thammer): 50 hp, 58 atk, 178 hit, 73 avo, 10 def, 31 res

22 Shanan: 94 avo base, +20 Forest, +30 Charisma, 10 from Lakche, and 20 from Serlis is...

174

oh noes 4% hit on him

And again, Ishtar is easy.

"Oh, is that Shanan I see!? Wait, where is he? Sorry, Aless, Shanan is back at our main castle killing off those grunts. It'll take him 3 turns to catch up. In that time, we'll have already have killed Ishtar and Blume."

You assume we'd spend time camping Nanna and Delmud next to Shanan when we can just kill her off with Aless?

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[grandjackal]

Aless would be +3 move more than Shanan after promotion, plus you keep disregarding the fact that he can move after attacking.

Also, killing Yurius before Ishtar means you won't have to deal with her on the Final Chapter.

You're forced to fight Alvis, rofl. Unless you forgot he was actually the toughest boss besides Yurius (Chapter 9...or was that 10?).

I'm pretty sure the only way in hell you're gonna pull off killing Julius is with one of the wonder twin swordmasters with their Nihil and likely a 50 kill brave sword, what with their shooting star shots and moonlight slices and crits. I don't care what you say. I highly doubt two crits from Mysotoltin will be enough due to the nature of Loptouse (Don't remember Str caps for pallies, but he'd basically at best would have 55 mt, which is cut in half to 27. 27x2=54-30=24. He'd need to land 2 crits to do half his health. OH SHIT! HE HAS WRATH! BYE ARES! If by some miracle he survives 120 magical damage, he'd need to land two more crits. This would involve him not only pulling Adept TWICE, but critting on all four shots AND surviving the Wrath. Even worse is if one of these fucks up and Julius activates Adept or just in Wrath rates, Ares just did a Jihad of which could end up only doing 2 damage.

At least Shanan has the excuse of "I could at least attempt to dodge the shot"

As a note, no legendary wielder should ever have money problems. In fact, only person I can even think of generation 2 having money problems is your healers save vakyrie without pirate sword, and replacement characters.

Edited September 26, 2009 by France

[Dat Nick]

You're assuming Aless is the only way to kill her? There's so many other ways to do it I could break the forum character limit by listing them all.

[Kriemhild]

I have to agree that Aless is far better than Shanan when it comes to dealing with ANY of the three Ishtars. I used Aless to beat her in the first and last time (used Altenna in the second).

[Eltoshen]

You're assuming Aless is the only way to kill her? There's so many other ways to do it I could break the forum character limit by listing them all.

Oh, does this involve having to wait for other characters to catch up to him, or what? Because, I could seriously care less for the other 1000 ways to kill her when the most efficient way is to use Aless. Actually, I would love for you to name some characters that don't auto-die thanks to her Ambush.

Like, did you see what you posted earlier? You had many characters standing next to him/wasting their turn for your perfect set-up. Aless doesn't need any bonuses.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

And what makes you so certain Aless IS the most efficient way to kill her? He can take one hit from her, he can't take two. Charging Ishtar with him results in a dead Aless rather than a dead Ishtar.

Aless doesn't need any bonuses.

of course he does. He needs to be healed.

Oh, and if we wanna discuss the most efficient way? Arthur Holsetys the bitch. There, now nobody gives a rats ass about how Aless OR Shanan does against a boss that's easy to deal with. Next topic.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Eltoshen]

Name characters that can take one hit from Ishtar, let alone two, while doing sufficient damage in the process.

Yes, use a variable couple that assumes Arthur inherits Holsety when Aless is good regardless of his father.

And I thought we were debating Aless vs. Shanan, not Aless vs. Arthur (Levin)

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

And what makes you so certain Aless IS the most efficient way to kill her? He can take one hit from her, he can't take two. Charging Ishtar with him results in a dead Aless rather than a dead Ishtar.

Aless doesn't need any bonuses.

of course he does. He needs to be healed.

Oh, and if we wanna discuss the most efficient way? Arthur Holsetys the bitch. There, now nobody gives a rats ass about how Aless OR Shanan does against a boss that's easy to deal with. Next topic.

pay attention please

[Eltoshen]

lrn2timestamp. I posted when I didn't see your edit, yet.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Dat Nick]

i dont see how it took you two minutes to type one sentance but w/e.

And I thought we were debating Aless vs. Shanan, not Aless vs. Arthur (Levin)

Wow, now you're contradicting yourself. Earlier you just said "I only care about the most efficient way to kill Ishtar". Arthur is the most efficient way. So by your logic who gives two damns that Aless can do it with a healer, less efficiently?

[Eltoshen]

It's called referencing stats to make a statement.

Wow, now you're contradicting yourself. Earlier you just said "I only care about the most efficient way to kill Ishtar". Arthur is the most efficient way. So by your logic who gives two damns that Aless can do it with a healer, less efficiently?

As in, "Shanan using a billion characters to help him kill Ishtar" isn't efficient. We're debating Aless vs. Shanan. The context of my post should've been obvious that I was referring to methods in which Shanan can kill her.

By the way, you still haven't answered this:

"Name characters that can take one hit from Ishtar, let alone two, while doing sufficient damage in the process."

Arthur (Levin) is a given, that's why he's higher on the tier list. >_>

[Dat Nick]

As in, "Shanan using a billion characters to help him kill Ishtar" isn't efficient. We're debating Aless vs. Shanan.

Yeahyeahyeah stop trying to squirm your way out of this one. You said you only cared about the most efficient way to kill Ishtar and could give less of a damn about the other 1000 ways. Well, guess what, that way isn't Aless or Shanan, so nobody gives a damn according to your own logic. You've created a paradox, now you have to either drop your argument or change it.

"Name characters that can take one hit from Ishtar, let alone two, while doing sufficient damage in the process."

...I just did.

Arthur (Levin) is a given, that's why he's higher on the tier list. >_>

Okay? Doesn't change the fact that he does it far easier than anybody else. You wanted the most efficient way? You got it. And it's not Aless, so it's not a point in Aless's favor.

[Eltoshen]

I think it's time you stopped beating around the bush and answer the question. Interpret my previous statement how you will, I'm still looking for "characters", note the plural, that can survive Ishtar's Ambush.

[Dat Nick]

I think it's time you stopped beating around the bush and answer the question.

I think it's time you did the same. You contradicted your own logic. Change it or drop it.

I'm still looking for "characters", note the plural, that can survive Ishtar's Ambush.

Who cares? You wanted the most efficient way to kill Ishtar, not the most efficient ways.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Germany

[Eltoshen]

Alright. So, we're going to disregard the fact that Arthur (Levin) is a variable couple and that Aless will always be good? So we're assuming now, that everybody pairs Tiltyu with Levin?

You do realize that this is not always the case, right? That's why I'm asking for another character that can deal with Ishtar in chapter 8 when people don't pair Tiltyu with Levin.