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FE7 tier list, HHM Ranked


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-Top-

Matthew

Raven

Serra

Priscilla

Ninian/Nils

-High-

Oswin

Hector

Guy

Sain

Kent

Erk

Marcus

Lowen

Eliwood

Florina

-Upper Mid-

Pent

Lucius

Harken

Dorcas

Geitz

Legault

Lyn

Fiora

-Lower Mid-

Dart

Hawkeye

Canas

Heath

Athos

Vaida

Jaffar

Karel

-Low-

Rath

Isadora

Bartre

Farina

Rebecca

Wil

Louise

Nino

-Bottom-

Wallace

Renault

Karla

Should Nininils be higher, and should Nino drop to her own tier? I'm kind of seeing that as reasonable here.

I'm thinking Silver Card may be h4x enough to warrant Matthew his own tier, but don't take that to heart or anything.

Edited by Fred Fuchs
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and should Nino drop to her own tier? I'm kind of seeing that as reasonable here.

If this is ranked, wtf are you talking about? Nino needs to go up. Experience rank is a bitch. She's > everyone is Bottom tier I'd say.

But meh, I'm not a big fan of tiering FE7, much less doing it with ranks.

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This is our tier list:

-Top-

Matthew

Ninian/Nils

Raven

Guy

Serra

-High-

Priscilla

Hector

Oswin

Sain

Kent

Erk

Lowen

Marcus

Pent

Harken

Eliwood

-Upper Mid-

Florina

Lucius

Dorcas

Geitz

Legault

Lyn

Fiora

-Lower Mid-

Hawkeye

Vaida

Jaffar

Canas

Isadora

Rebecca

Rath

-Low-

Heath

Karel

Dart

Bartre

Louise

Wil

Renault

-Bottom-

Nino

Farina

Wallace

Karla

-Unranked/Disputed-

Athos

Hector

Athos and Hector are unranked right now because they don't take up a unit slot. The entire point of the tiers is to compare characters FOR those unit slots. Dunno where to place them because of this.

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Athos could be Lower/Lower-Mid. You get Forblaze and he's a nice Gotoh.

Hector should be in High Tier/ Upper-Mid because... well, he's Hector.

And why is Louise so low? Should be at LEAST higher than Rath.

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Athos could be Lower/Lower-Mid. You get Forblaze and he's a nice Gotoh.

Well, I put Hector on the list to show you where we had him before we took him off the ranks for discussion purposes.

And why is Louise so low? Should be at LEAST higher than Rath.

Louise hurts the combat/tactics (one or the other) and EXP rank. Rath comes at a low level, so he helps the EXP rank. When he promotes he stops hurting the combat rank.

Who are you representing?

GameFAQs.

Edited by Moribalken
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Louise hurts the combat/tactics (one or the other) and EXP rank. Rath comes at a low level, so he helps the EXP rank. When he promotes he stops hurting the combat rank.

I can buy Rath > Louise, but the Combat rank is a complete joke. You can 5-star that even if you boss abuse.

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Also, Pent above Guy and Lucius.

Pent IS above Lucius. He isn't above Guy though; Guy is one of the best units in the game.

I can buy Rath > Louise, but the Combat rank is a complete joke. You can 5-star that even if you boss abuse.

Hurting the Combat rank hurts the Tactics rank. The more enemies you leave alive, the more enemies block your path to the throne/gate and waste turns. Louise doesn't even help the exp rank by hurting the combat rank because she doesn't attack at close range. 2 rounding isn't a horrible thing to do, because you still get extra EXP from it. 2 rounding and still only getting the EXP you'd get from a one round is garbage.

Edited by Moribalken
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No he's not, lol. Guy doesn't belong in top for basically the same reason that FE9 Ike doesn't belong in top.

The reason I don't like tier lists contaminated by the EXP rank is because it forces us to not acknowledge that Marcus is hands-down the best character on the team for a large portion of the game.

Also, snipers do not hurt combat as much as you think they do. The simple way around it is to assume that the player is not a veritable dumbass. Under the condition that it is less efficient to attack and take counters away from other units than to not attack and let other units counter, then the sniper wouldn't be in the position to negatively affect combat rank in the first place.

Edited by dondon151
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editing

And Hector not being tiered is a load of horse hockey imho. Unit slots is an opportunity cost yes but it never flies when people try to use it as an argument. So there's no reason Hector shouldn't be listed, you just don't factor his not eating a unit slot [After all, I don't see people saying how awesome Roy is because he doesn't use a slot]

I'll leave Athos alone on the basis that I don't care enough, but-wait what is Marcus doing out of Top tier

Guy doesn't belong in top for basically the same reason that FE9 Ike doesn't belong in top.

...what?

Guy's earlygame is actually good. REALLY good.

Edited by Athena's Chest
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I forget about when the last time I saw the HHM Ranked list, but wasn't Hector lower due to EXP rank issues after he hits 20? I mean, I haven't checked up on if that's changed or not, but I'm thinking he's just really too high if he can potentially hurt you even by battling.

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Well is GFAQs tiering still active? It all died out and everybody migrated to Serenes to do this shit, or at least that's what I've heard and that's the impression I'm under. I got banned ages back. :P

Edited by Athena's Chest
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Guy's earlygame is actually good. REALLY good.

Ike's earlygame isn't bad by any means and his mid-lategame is certainly better than Guy's mid-lategame, but neither have 2-range, which instantly drops them out of top tier in addition to less than perfect performance.

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Matthew at top of Top really doesn't work for me. "But he steals the Silver Card" is just a disguised seize argument, quite similar to BK in 1-9 of RD. Hector doesn't auto-God the list because of allowing us to continue the game on multiple occasions, does he?

Also, the tier gap between Priscilla and Serra needs to go. I can buy Serra > Priscilla for now, but there's no way a tier gap is justified when they largely provide the same thing (experience rank) except Priscilla does it with +2 move.

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I don't even get how Serra>Priscilla. Is she getting that many levels in LM without staff abuse to offset mount and better magic type?

Matthew at top of Top really doesn't work for me. "But he steals the Silver Card" is just a disguised seize argument, quite similar to BK in 1-9 of RD. Hector doesn't auto-God the list because of allowing us to continue the game on multiple occasions, does he?

I honestly kind of feel the same way about thief shit, like, say, the shit Chad gets you pre-Astol.

But that's another show.

Edited by Athena's Chest
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And Hector not being tiered is a load of horse hockey imho. Unit slots is an opportunity cost yes but it never flies when people try to use it as an argument. So there's no reason Hector shouldn't be listed, you just don't factor his not eating a unit slot [After all, I don't see people saying how awesome Roy is because he doesn't use a slot]

Roy is as high as he is because he has no cost. Hector is, of course, going to be quite high because he doesn't take anyone's slots and he's good. He hurts the EXP rank for a while though. The problem is we're unsure how to put value on a unit who costs nothing. For example, Raven and Guy have better offense than anyone else so they aren't hurting anything by taking up a unit slot. You look at the best unit that isn't getting into the chapter, compare it to Raven/Guy and then see how much better they are. That's how you value them in any given chapter. How do you value someone who takes no unit slot and thus has nobody who can replace him?

but-wait what is Marcus doing out of Top tier

What Marcus does for the Tactics rank he takes from the EXP rank. The two hardest things to S rank. Marcus should be used with caution for this reason. The Tactics rank can be made up for with a couple rushes, but the EXP rank is going to force you to keep your characters underleveled. The more you abuse Marcus, the longer you need to be underleveled.

...what?

Guy's earlygame is actually good. REALLY good.

Pretty much. Guy's a beast throughout the entire game. His offense is top tier, he can survive just as well as any other unit you've got (except the obvious ones that nobody is as durable as) and he has great supports.

I don't see why we need to discuss Gfaqs's tier list...

We've considered your efficiency tier list when discussing matters in our tiers. I don't really see what's wrong with seeing how another community does things. Sometimes it helps you with yours.

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I don't even get how Serra>Priscilla. Is she getting that many levels in LM without staff abuse to offset mount and better magic type?

It's somewhat counter-intuitive anyway. The biggest bitch in ranking this game is the experience rank (even when I did a no-Tactics ranked run, meaning I tried to 5-star everything without bothering with Tactics, I still ended up with 1 star in Experience. And I even used Nino), and promoted staff users get half the experience for staff use, so it could be argued that Priscilla still helps more since she contributes more to that on top of having +1 move to promoted Serra. If you don't give Serra all the LHM leveling, they provide roughly the same to experience but Priscilla has her ever-too-obvious advantages.

We've considered your efficiency tier list when discussing matters in our tiers. I don't really see what's wrong with seeing how another community does things. Sometimes it helps you with yours.

I didn't know that, but my real problem is the immaturity often attributed to GFaqs. I don't want that leaking into tier lists.

Edited by Red Fox of Fire
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I just said, unit slot costs are pretty much never considered when debating about units. Characters like Est, Rofl, Marisa, Nino, et cetera don't suck because they use unit slots, they suck because they suck. Similarly, you don't see anybody complaining about unit slots when it comes to units like Dick, Rutger, Zag, Wolf, Merric, Marcus, Seth, Titania, et cetera. Being forced is cool and everything but it shouldn't be the end of the world, I see it a minor positive since it's not exactly something you can ignore.

Furthermore I question "Hector's one of the best units". Hector is cool and everything but he has problems. His AS is one, his 1-2 range is another [Hit can be problematic] and since this is a ranked list EXP rank's a problem too. He's only High tier on the efficiency list, you could exaggerate his weaknesses to Upper Mid if you wanted to.

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Athos could be Lower/Lower-Mid. You get Forblaze and he's a nice Gotoh.

Well, I put Hector on the list to show you where we had him before we took him off the ranks for discussion purposes.

And why is Louise so low? Should be at LEAST higher than Rath.

Louise hurts the combat/tactics (one or the other) and EXP rank. Rath comes at a low level, so he helps the EXP rank. When he promotes he stops hurting the combat rank.

Who are you representing?

GameFAQs.

1. HEctor looks a TAD BIT high. Maybe one spot lower or something. His SPD hurts him. Slightly.

2. Louise comes with an auto-A in bows and decent STR for her class and Level. More than what Rath has to offer, the underleveled fuck.

3. lolGamefaqs.

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It's somewhat counter-intuitive anyway. The biggest bitch in ranking this game is the experience rank (even when I did a no-Tactics ranked run, meaning I tried to 5-star everything without bothering with Tactics, I still ended up with 1 star in Experience. And I even used Nino), and promoted staff users get half the experience for staff use, so it could be argued that Priscilla still helps more since she contributes more to that on top of having +1 move to promoted Serra. If you don't give Serra all the LHM leveling, they provide roughly the same to experience but Priscilla has her ever-too-obvious advantages.

It pretty much comes out to Lyn mode, which we assume is S ranked for the White Gem. Serra has a big level lead from healing every turn, so she promotes sooner and thus starts attacking before her.

I didn't know that, but my real problem is the immaturity often attributed to GFaqs. I don't want that leaking into tier lists.

There's a big difference between the general GameFAQs community and the people that work on our tier list. I don't think I've been particularly immature, anyway.

I just said, unit slot costs are pretty much never considered when debating about units. Characters like Est, Rofl, Marisa, Nino, et cetera don't suck because they use unit slots, they suck because they suck. Similarly, you don't see anybody complaining about unit slots when it comes to units like Dick, Rutger, Zag, Wolf, Merric, Marcus, Seth, Titania, et cetera. Being forced is cool and everything but it shouldn't be the end of the world, I see it a minor positive since it's not exactly something you can ignore.

They are on GameFAQs. We don't assume a character is used the whole game just because they're being compared to someone who does. We assume a character is used for as long as they're good, then we drop them and compare their usefulness to other character's. Dorcas is so high for this reason; he has a monstrously useful early game, but sucks late game. He gets dropped, but still remains high because he helped so much in the hardest part of the game that he was worth more than characters who might get used a little longer.

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