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Micaiah

Problems

Micaiah's biggest problem is that she's not a viable unit in combat beyond part 1 (and even within part 1 she's only okay). She gets ORKO'd virtually forever, especially after part 1, where if you want her to have any semblance of offense she'll need to be at a low enough HP for wrath. She has bad HP, bad def, bad avoid, and because of low spd gets doubled by everything. Healbotting is cool, but it only can get you so far...

Changes

- Switch spd and res growths.

- Staff rank mimics the other sages.

- Gain 2 authority stars (as mentioned in OP).

Results

Micaiah will quickly turn into a ORKOing machine. The big spd boost will also not only stop her from getting doubled, but give her good avoid. A 20/20/1 Micaiah (who with the new improved spd caps will have ~29 at 20/20/1) will have 98 avo before authority stars or supports, not too shabby when Zihark would be pulling maybe ~90 avoid (granted, Zihark has lolearth). She'll also double and ORKO in part 1 very quickly (hits 15 spd at 10/0, Jill's base spd), and since she doesn't have to be at 30% HP she might be able to take a hit as well.

The small nerf in staves is needed since we can't make her too flexible, especially since the plan was to introduce more high rank staves so that our core healers (Laura/Mist/Rhys... I guess Oliver too, rofls) aren't rendered obsolete.

The authority stars will make everyone in the DB better dodgers, and might entice people to go on her route in part 4 (since no authority stars sucks pretty hard, as if non-fliers/mages/laguz didn't hate her route already).

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Edward

Problems

Edward's offense is too shaky to warrant his poor durability, especially since dodgers are SOL in the DB. Even his part 4 isn't very stellar due to mediocre durability. He's too borderline on doubling in part 1 as well for someone that's supposed to be fast.

Changes

- Drop his base level to 1.

- +3 spd and lck bases.

- Caladbolg is +15 lck and has infinite uses.

Results

The base level reduction is more of an aesthetic change than anything, although he might gain an extra level in the DB chapters.

The increase in bases lets him double much easier, and with that plus Micaiah having authority stars, he might actually dodge. Also, since att/def from supports is now up to 0.8 per level, he can get up to 5 def from supports (and still 2 minimum).

Caladbolg is for more durability, especially since now it has infinite uses.

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Tormod's crew joining on 3-5 makes more sense story-wise, though you're probably going to have to buff his level/stats since he'll be behind everyone (Tormod needs at least comparable magic to base level Soren, Vika needs strength and maybe defense, Muarim is fine though). As for Micaiah's extra chapter in 3-9 make it a laguz chapter as well, with the added routs they should be roughly equal to Ike's team in level. Also do disappearing characters (Nealuchi, Lucia) make an appearance earlier and maybe can you put Kurth and Ena in 4-1 & 4-4?

Some character growth/base suggestions (characters that I see nothing wrong won't be included). Also assuming no transfers

Micaiah - Slight increase to HP and SPD growths

Edward - Better base SPD and DEF

Leonardo - Better STR and SPD growths

Sothe - Lower base STR

Ilyana - Better SPD and MAG growth

Meg - Better base SPD and HP, better STR growth

Volug - Lower base SPD

Tauroneo - Better base DEF

Fiona - Better base HP, STR, SKL, SPD and DEF

Tormod - Better base MAG

Vika - Better base STR

Nailiah - Lower STR and SPD

Marcia - Better base STR

Nealuchi - Better base STR

Haar - Lower base STR and DEF

Brom - Better STR growth

Heather - Better base STR, better STR growth

Lucia - Better STR growth, better base STR

Lethe - Better base STR

Geoffrey - Better base SPD, better DEF growth

Kieran - Better SPD growth

Astrid - Better base STR and SPD

Makalov - Better base STR

Danved - Better base STR and DEF

Ike - Lower base SPD, lower STR growth

Titania - Lower base STR

Soren - Better SPD growth

Mist - Better base SPD, better DEF growth

Rolf - Better base SPD

Boyd - Better base SPD

Shinon - Lower base STR and DEF

Gatrie - Lower SPD growth

Rhys - Better base HP and SPD, better SPD growth

Kyza - Better base STR and SPD

Lyre - Better base STR and SPD

Reyson - Lower base HP and SPD

Janaff - Lower base STR and SPD

Ulki - Lower base SPD

Sigrun - Better base STR, better SPD and DEF growth

Tanith - Slightly better base SPD

Sanaki - Better base STR, better SPD growth

Skrimir - Lower base STR and DEF

Tibarn - Lower base STR, SPD and DEF

Naesala - Lower base SPD

Pelleas - Better base SPD (being in 20/20/1 with those base stats >_>)

Oliver - Better base SPD, better MAG growth

Bastian - Better base SPD, better MAG growth

Kurthnaga - Better base SPD

Ena - Better base STR and SPD (and higher cap), better STR and DEF growth (or you can make her attack magic base)

Caineghis - Lower base STR, SPD and DEF

Giffca - Lower base STR, SPD and DEF

Renning - Better base STR and SPD

Gareth - Better base RES

Lehran - Lower base MAG (get rid of mantle, but give him his tome)

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Leo

Problems

List Leo's problems? I think it would be easier to mention what IS did RIGHT with Leo. And here's a comprehensive list on that.

Well that was a long list.

Leo's offense is too crappy to warrant using him. He has the whole avoid counters thing in a part where taking counters sucks (since DB enemies are godly and liek 2-3HKO half the team), but he doesn't double and his att is terrible, and because of terrible durability he can't even tank in an emergency. Leo's okay once Lugh comes around, but his part 1 is awful. So there's an easy and obvious solution...

Changes

- Leo joins with Lugh, which now has infinite uses.

Results

This gives Leo good offense (hey guys, I'm doubling everything in part 1 with a 16 mt weapon), something a sniper should actually have. The boost in att/def for affinities mentioned in the OP help him greatly, since now he's very likely to get either +5 att or def from supports (as well as his supporter).

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Nolan

Problems

With Micaiah giving out authority stars, Nolan's avoid might actually reach respectable amounts in DB chapters. As if his performance over the entire game wasn't good enough already (his shakiest part being 1-6 to 1-E, which is still okay, but now is going to be decent with +10 avoid). So he needs a slight nerf.

Changes

- Reduce str and def bases by 1

Results

This makes him a little less dominant in early part 1. I'm still a little worried that Nolan might be too good, but we'll have to see. Most everyone else IS getting a buff after all.

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Laura

Problems

Poor Laura. All those growths go to waste on you.

Laura's problem is that she's just too freaking underleveled, which also applies to Mist and Rhys; there's just not enough turns in their chapters to get heals in when their base levels are so low. That, also with her horrible bases, makes her get doubled by everything in part 1, which really hinders her ability to heal in the first place.

Changes

- Increase her base level to 6 with stats to match (rounded to nearest whole number).

Results

Laura now gets doubled by only myrms (and even that might change), and since heal/mend/recover are now giving out more exp, she might level up in a timely manner and put those growths to use. The hit/avoid boost to affinities also helps, since wind was just a terrible affinity.

She's also going to get a much needed increase in caps, although that applies to most every class, so that'll just be mentioned in the OP.

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Sothe

Problems

Sothe's part 1 is too good, and his part 4 is too crappy (though this is largely because of horrible caps + lolknives). I know that's how jeigans are supposed to be like this, but it makes him pretty imbalanced. It would be better if he was just a tad better than the DB, and a tad worse than the peeps in part 4.

Changes

- Bases are now the following...

35 HP, 14 str, 4 mag, 18 skl, 16 spd, 11 lck, 10 def, 9 res

- Growths are the following...

30 HP, 60 str, 20 mag, 70 skl, 65 spd, 85 lck, 40 def, 30 res

Results

The reduction in bases makes him less dominant in DB chapters. He no longer ORKOs everything with a forged knife and never dies, though he's still one of the better part 1 units, especially since he's getting 24 avoid from Micaiah support instead of 15, and 10 from stars. With the boost in caps and knives, though, his part 4 isn't lolcrap anymore.

The boost in growths was required to keep his spd/def up for part 4 after the reduction in bases (he's going to cap ram str/skl either way).

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Ilyana

Problems

Ilyana was one of the hardest units in the game to balance. She joins early in DB chapters, so we can't make her too overpowered for DB chapters, but since she switches over to the GMs, she has to be somewhat good or else will be one of their worst units. So she needed a pretty big revamp to her bases, growths, and availability.

Changes

- Ilyana stays with the DB.

- +4 HP and def bases.

- Growths are now the following...

55 HP, 45 str, 60 mag, 60 skl, 40 spd, 40 lck, 40 def, 50 res

Results

She's still on the slow side, but she's going to have respectable HP and def, especially since she's going to get more from supports than before. And even though she's fairly slow, she's going to do fine in part 3 because of laguz.

Edited by 8========================D
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Will you be increasing the mage classes Def caps?I know you said + 2 in the beginning,but lets take Ilyana as an example,who still caps first tier Def at 10,and then only has a second tier cap of ~17.I would personally suggest upping mage def caps to 15 first tier,20~22 second tier,and around 25/26 third tier,so that characters like Ilyana can make use of thier Def growth,instead of,lol capramming Def.

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One thing that should've been changed is the Leadership system overall. I'd say keep the 5*stars avoid/hit for the leader. But have other units with leadership stars have a 3*stars boost to hit/avoid at support range. Also add leadership to units that should've had them in the first place.

***:Tauroneo,Sigrun,Ranulf,Micaiah

**: Titania,Tanith,Bastian,Nolan

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Nolan is not already too good.

You realize that with just B Earth, Nolan is now facing 20% hit rates from Bandits, and similar numbers in 1-E (since lolpromotion). He drops from an 18.3% real chance to get hit to an 8.2%.

Against 3-6 Laguz, he's facing liek 30% hit rates rather than 40%, a drop to 18.3% from 32.4%.

We have to take into consideration the effects that every change will have on units (for example, Haar having to compete with Marcia and Vika for flyer utility will lessen his wtfrape, so the direct nerfs to him aren't as significant as Ike's). With the authority buff, Nolan potentially becomes too powerful because he becomes nearly unkillable yet still has offense on par with other units.

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I think dondon was talking about how Nolan isn't that good in the normal game (which is false; he'd still be above my target "area"), but yeah, as paperblade said, with Micaiah getting authority stars Nolan will overshoot that target "area" even more.

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Nolan is at the bottom of high. That's not exceedingly good by any means.

I think a reasonable balancing idea is to either raise base levels of enemies and PC units in parts 1 and 2 or decrease them in part 3, or you can autolevel units a certain amount as they switch between parts.

Edited by dondon151
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Nolan is at the bottom of high. That's not exceedingly good by any means.

I think a reasonable balancing idea is to either raise base levels of enemies and PC units in parts 1 and 2 or decrease them in part 3, or you can autolevel units a certain amount as they switch between parts.

Am I just remembering wrong or does Gatrie actually jump a level or two before chapter 13 in PoR if he isn't at least a specific level? Like, from 9 to 11 or something.

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Nolan is at the bottom of high. That's not exceedingly good by any means.

Yes, we've established that. The point is that mechanics changes such as forges being nerfed (which hurts pretty much everyone else's offense, but Nolan still has roffleaxes for godmode) and the DB getting +10 Hit/Avoid will make him overshoot the target area. He becomes too good, and thus needs a nerf.

I think a reasonable balancing idea is to either raise base levels of enemies and PC units in parts 1 and 2 or decrease them in part 3, or you can autolevel units a certain amount as they switch between parts.

DB units get a Part 4 buff by the increased EXP from 1-5, 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 all becoming routs. Part 1 and 3 performance doesn't matter as they are only being compared to themselves. As long as they perform on par with the GMs in Part 4, I don't really care about Part 1 and 3. I would like to make the GM chapters more difficult (ie up enemy levels), but smash thinks that nerfing the GMs will make it more difficult.

Edited by Paperblade
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DB units get a Part 4 buff by the increased EXP from 1-5, 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 all becoming routs.

Isn't 1-5 already a 'Rout Enemy' mission? So why do we need to change it?

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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DB units get a Part 4 buff by the increased EXP from 1-5, 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13 all becoming routs.

Isn't 1-5 already a 'Rout Enemy' mission? So why do we need to change it?

Aside from you not many of us only play EM

Scroll down on the page to which I linked and check the entry for chapter 5.

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- The CRKs (Geoffrey, Kieran, Makalov, Astrid, Danved, Calill, Marcia) rejoin in 3-2. 3-9, which used to be a CRK chapter, is now a DB chapter.

What are you doing about 3-10? Are you gonna make that a DB mission as well? Or are you going to keep it as it is, and change the CRK NPC's to generic units, plus Lucia (as the CRKs have already merged with the GM)?

Edited by NinjaMonkey
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- The CRKs (Geoffrey, Kieran, Makalov, Astrid, Danved, Calill, Marcia) rejoin in 3-2. 3-9, which used to be a CRK chapter, is now a DB chapter.

What are you doing about 3-10? Are you gonna make that a DB mission as well? Or are you going to keep it as it is, and change the CRK NPC's to generic units, plus Lucia (as the CRKs have already merged with the GM)?

Most likely the latter.

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Aran

Problems

Aran's performance in DB chapter is for the most part fine, although a slight increase in base durability would be nice. It's his underwhelming part 4 that's the problem, stemming from his bad spd. I also always thought that a tank having relatively low HP was weird (look at the peeps like Haar and Volug and Ike and Gatrie; tons of HP. Of course they just have tons of everything), but a boost to HP would likely make him too good at tanking in DB chapters, especially with the boost to support bonuses and Aran potentially getting 5 def from supports.

Changes

- +3 HP base

- -10 to str and def growths, +10 to HP and spd growths.

Results

The +3 HP base makes him slightly better at tanking in early DB chapters.

The spd growth increase was the most significant as he's not going to be retardedly slow in part 4, and he might actually double slow enemies like generals. The HP increase was to achieve a higher HP, and str/def growth nerfs were required to not make him too overpowered in DB chapters (though he's still going to cap str/def even with higher caps all around).

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Micaiah

Problems

Micaiah's biggest problem is that she's not a viable unit in combat beyond part 1 (and even within part 1 she's only okay). She gets ORKO'd virtually forever, especially after part 1, where if you want her to have any semblance of offense she'll need to be at a low enough HP for wrath. She has bad HP, bad def, bad avoid, and because of low spd gets doubled by everything. Healbotting is cool, but it only can get you so far...

Changes

- Switch spd and res growths.

- Staff rank mimics the other sages.

- Gain 2 authority stars (as mentioned in OP).

Results

Micaiah will quickly turn into a ORKOing machine. The big spd boost will also not only stop her from getting doubled, but give her good avoid. A 20/20/1 Micaiah (who with the new improved spd caps will have ~29 at 20/20/1) will have 98 avo before authority stars or supports, not too shabby when Zihark would be pulling maybe ~90 avoid (granted, Zihark has lolearth). She'll also double and ORKO in part 1 very quickly (hits 15 spd at 10/0, Jill's base spd), and since she doesn't have to be at 30% HP she might be able to take a hit as well.

The small nerf in staves is needed since we can't make her too flexible, especially since the plan was to introduce more high rank staves so that our core healers (Laura/Mist/Rhys... I guess Oliver too, rofls) aren't rendered obsolete.

The authority stars will make everyone in the DB better dodgers, and might entice people to go on her route in part 4 (since no authority stars sucks pretty hard, as if non-fliers/mages/laguz didn't hate her route already).

Okay, I'm assuming same bases and same caps in tier 1, and the only change is switching her 90% res growth with her 35% spd growth.

Micaiah at level 16:

21 hp, 4.25 str, 19 mag, 14 skl, 20(.5) spd, 22 lck, 5 def, 9.25 res.

Also, A Sothe now gives 24 avo, or A Nolan gives 35 avo.

20x2 + 22 + 10 = 72 base avo.

96 avo with A Sothe, 107 avo with A Nolan.

I'll go with A Nolan. I like giving him more def, but with the changes I'm sure it won't matter anymore.

Best enemy hit in 1-8:

122 hit.

15 listed, 4.65% true with an A Nolan support.

Also, 29 mt with Thani and her support (I'm assuming 2.4 rounds down.)

Number of enemies not doubled: 2

Number of enemies not ORKOd: 3 (2 of which because they aren't doubled).

Now, aside from the dracoknights (that can't hit her at equal bios), she isn't ORKOd by anything here. Her chances of dying in two attacks: .00216225

Her chances of dying in 4 attacks:

(4C2)(.0465)^2(.9535)^2

=6(.00216225)(.90916225)

=.011795...

So basically 1.2% chance of dying in 4 consecutive attacks. Except that's the best enemy hit, and while they could have a bio advantage on her, they could also have a bio disadvantage.

Anyway, she ORKOs almost everything on the map and is not particularly likely to die, especially considering I'm not sure she actually would face 4 attacks between chances to heal her. Also in those 4 attacks she has an ~82.6576% chance of not even getting hit once, so most times she faces 3 or 4 attacks you don't even have to heal her.

Now, obviously thanks to Jarod's stars in 1-E it's not as crazy. By now say level 20,

22.6 hp, 4.85 str, 20 mag, 15.6 skl, 20 spd, 25.2 lck, 5.8 def, 10.65 res.

110 avo. 130 avo with Resolve. Aside from myrms, 139 is the highest hit. Micaiah faces 29 listed, or 17.11 true. Obviously while being 2RKOd it would be bad to take two hits at that hit rate. She does, however, have a lot of enemies with lower hit rates, and if she happens to be on best for this map it drops even further. Anyway, strap on Resolve and she's probably your best unit, unless these changes have made someone else able to hit 130 avo with Resolve. I don't think Zihark will be a B yet, but if you push it you may pull it off. Even so:

24 x 2 + 11 + 10 + 30 = 99 avo before Resolve, and 123 avo after. It's close, and he's got more concrete durability, but just having the possibility for Micaiah even if another unit would be arguably better with it makes things kinda crazy for her. I'm not sure if your changes to Ed will help, but he lacks avo on his own affinity and lacks her massive luck.

3-6 has 2 more avo on her at 20/1, so 112, or 132 with Resolve. Unfortunately, she'll be facing too many OHKOs to care. Anyway, scratch resolve since she doubles tigers anyway. If Thani went up in strength, it has 10 mt, so at 20/1 she has 33 mt with an A anyone support. 52hp/6res is the best tigers get. 27x2 = 54 = one dead tiger. Or lots of dead tigers. So yeah, Leo's main utility in this chapter just tanked. I suppose she still has to split her duties between healing and indirect pwning though.

Jump to 4-E-1 though...

Level 20/20/1 Micaiah.

29 speed (since you gave +2 to her tier 2 spd cap).

As you pointed out, 98 avo before stars. Ike makes 113 avo. A Nolan makes 148 avo.

Of the initial enemies, aside from the boss, the double bow sniper, and one bishop, the highest hit is 166.

18 listed. (29 listed if A Sothe still). 6.66% true (17.11 if A Sothe).

And since she's doubling (8 of the generals, but is only one level from 30 AS and a lot more of them), I'd like to point out that Nosferatu makes 42 mt with a support (6 x 4/3 = 8). With doubling a Corona will KO. A crit probably will too, though it is not very likely to crit at all. Even with the 2x crits instead of 3x, 42 - 25 = 17 and 17 + 17x2 = 51. But if she got Earth then she can use Thani. G'Night Generals.

Question (not that you read my posts, so maybe PB can answer)

Also, if Shine is forgeable when the Arc spells are (which should be when the silvers are), then 9 mt can be forged. Though you've made them more expensive and made them more rare. Actually, what about part 4? Is it still only 2 forge opportunities in 6 chapters? And can you then only make 2 forges in that time? And just one forge at the start of 4-E and then no more? That's a grand total of 3 silver forges (or arc or shine). It also means the DB can only make one steel (or el spell) forge in all of part 1 and thus only get one in all of part 3.

Now, her level should rise quickly here, especially if she has earth since she can safely stand anywhere not in the vicinity of wardwood and ORKO Generals. With 29 AS and a 90% growth she is 7 levels away from her new cap of 35. At which point she'll have 125 avo with Ike's stars, and 160 avo with an A Nolan.

4-E-2 shall henceforth be known as her stomping ground. There is no way she doesn't get at least 4 levels (in 4-E-1), and has a >65% chance of 33 AS in 4 levels. Doubling everything but Swordmasters. By now should have 35 magic (3 or 4 levels), so RexAura has 16 mt now. 53 mt with support. She'll basically ORKO anything not a swordmaster. And 33 AS is still 156 avo, or 145 with Sothe.

Red dragons top out at 165 hit, Whites at 182. By now she should have that 160 avo. Reds are a joke. Whites aren't, especially with only 26.95 res at 20/20/20, so more like 22.75 at level 20/20/8. And 39 hp. (19 def so 56 mt reds don't OHKO her. 58 mt reds should possibly be faced while on cover, unless she was given a seraph robe because a: it helps and b: she's now good enough offensively you want her to have an enemy phase.) So she doesn't one round any of them but Nosferatu tanking is still a viable strategy. Actually, it's not really any different than normal, aside from her being more deserving of a robe throughout the rest of the game.

Suggestion: Do something about that lck growth. Maybe average out the res and lck growths. Or some type of reward for sticking with Sothe (stat booster or something, like Mist x Boyd, only more appreciated than a spirit dust). I hope enemies are improving though, considering if you give Micaiah an Earth support (of which she'll be more worthy than Ed thanks to better avo and better offence) she'll be unstoppable, and even with just Sothe she'll still be pretty great. Or just eliminate Earth and invent some other affinity. Maybe something that splits 3 ways. Or bring back the affinities from the GBA games and make Earth and Heaven = Anima and Water = Ice. Then jump the .5s to .8s and the 2.5s to 4s. It would work, since each gets multiplied by 1.6. Which seems fair given how there are only 3 total support levels instead of 5 total (A instead of AB or ACC or BBC or whatever). 3 x 1.6 = 4.8 which is close to 5. 4.8 mt/def/res and 24 hit/avo are close to 5 and 25, and you already said you'd round up the 4.8 to 5. Or make Resolve less good.

Anyway, I haven't analyzed the changes in the other units overly much, but I doubt they can do what she can do. And if they can, that just means you turned HM into EM in your attempt to balance it.

Also:

- WEXP gained on a kill is doubled.

No reason to do that on Beorc. Their weapon levels go up like crazy anyhow. It's good on laguz, so:

Some kind of magic absorbing of life or something meaning their claws get better if they are used to kill. This doesn't work for weapons held by beorc, so they don't get the improvement.

Also, why do the PCs need satori signs but every single enemy will get their mastery? I understand you are trying to make them all not OHKOs and make the enemies there tougher, but that just seems off. It's the type of thing that would likely get the DM punched in D&D. Giving something to the enemies for free that the PCs have to pay for.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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