Red Fox of Fire's character review topic (Complete)

[Candlejack]

Okay, I think Sothe got blown out of proportion a bit. His thief utility gets him places and he's a great Part 1 unit; but he slowly worsens until Part 4, when he is very bad.

1. Like you said, knives, caps, etc.

2. His support affinity is actually bad. Considering nobody on the DB needs HIT, he can only really support Nolan, but everyone else wants him too. Especially units that are good beyond Part 1.

3. You overrate his Part 1. You get other units such as Nolan, Volug, and Zihark who become truly great units if you use them in Part 1, and REMAIN good past it. Sothe is only good for Part 1.

4. Yeah, Sothe's STR is wtf for a thief class. Then you get Zihark, who is only marginally worse than Sothe. And doesn't have lolknives.

In short, you heavily overrate his Part 1 performance and more or less hand-wave what you've said about his "past Part 1 performance." Why do you think Jeigan is so bad? Because he is terrible past his earlygame. Same with Sothe.

[Florete]

Okay, I think Sothe got blown out of proportion a bit. His thief utility gets him places and he's a great Part 1 unit; but he slowly worsens until Part 4, when he is very bad.

1. Like you said, knives, caps, etc.

2. His support affinity is actually bad. Considering nobody on the DB needs HIT, he can only really support Nolan, but everyone else wants him too. Especially units that are good beyond Part 1.

3. You overrate his Part 1. You get other units such as Nolan, Volug, and Zihark who become truly great units if you use them in Part 1, and REMAIN good past it. Sothe is only good for Part 1.

4. Yeah, Sothe's STR is wtf for a thief class. Then you get Zihark, who is only marginally worse than Sothe. And doesn't have lolknives.

In short, you heavily overrate his Part 1 performance and more or less hand-wave what you've said about his "past Part 1 performance." Why do you think Jeigan is so bad? Because he is terrible past his earlygame. Same with Sothe.

Every one of your points is either irrelevant or already covered in my post. Try coming up with something new before accusing me of overrating him.

[Narga_Rocks]

Micaiah's "brother," who looks like Leon Kennedy from Resident Evil 4 (At least I think so), is the first really good character that shows up. What's funny is that this guy is like the most underrated character in the entire series because a lot of the uneducated fandom treats him as a typical Jeigan and say he sucks all the time, but he's easily a candidate for one of the top 5 characters in the game. He also has a lot of haters that know he's good but hate him anyway. I don't know why. I like him.

(belly-shirt)

I got flamed pretty hard the last time I rated him because people thought I was giving him too much credit, but I'm still convinced he's just being hated on way too much for whatever retarded reasons people have. You people know who you are. Take this as you feel.

Belly-shirt.

And yeah, let's check the good ole' tier list:

Nolan

Shinon

Rafiel

Upper Middle (13)

Elincia

Micaiah

Yeah, I'd have to say that gap constitutes a .5 difference. Also, Nolan is probably not a 9, and Micaiah is far too helpful too often to be less than 8. Of course, without seeing the rest of the rankings I can't really judge for consistency yet, but those first 4 are fine. Ed and Leo could maybe afford to be =, but it's fine since she gave the +/- .5 point disclaimer. Also, 4.5 is possible, but without seeing the rest of her rankings, there isn't really much to go on here for whether or not those ranks are reasonable. She underestimated what Leo does with wrath in 1 chapter, but the ranking is still adequate (it is, after all, only one chapter). He OHKOs cats with a crit and by 19/1 (if he can somehow pull that one off) he can 4HKO tigers (thus ORKOing in a single crit). It's nothing much to really even comment on, but I feel forced to say something after some of the recent posts in this topic.

As for Sothe, well he's better than Nolan most of the time, isn't he? They are around far more often before part 4 than after. I wish the beast killer had more hit, actually. The hit issues are probably the only reason I'd try to hold him back from a 9. He needs that part 3 utility, in my opinion, to pull a 9. We do have to trade out his weapon all the time for something that won't kill with a crit-blick, and he will probably miss at least once during the map (I think his chance of missing at least once is over 50%, depending on how much he uses it), so there are arguments for reducing the utility he gets from part 3, but he's still better than Nolan more often than Nolan is better than Sothe. Also, Nolan needs part 4 to be equal Sothe but Nolan comes to part 4 underleveled. Also, his best chapter from 4-P/1/2 is probably 4-P, but 4-3 is desert. Basically, I'm comfortable with a .5 gap between Sothe and Nolan, and if I were to try to shove Sothe down I'd have to first try to shove Nolan down, but apparently a gap of just .5 between Micaiah and Nolan is already a sacrilege, so I'm stuck with Sothe getting a 9.

Okay, I think Sothe got blown out of proportion a bit. His thief utility gets him places and he's a great Part 1 unit; but he slowly worsens until Part 4, when he is very bad.

1. Like you said, knives, caps, etc.

Affects part 4 only. And "very bad" is not accurate. As long as you are free and don't die in one hit (or round, but he isn't doubled) and your attacks let other units ORKO when they wouldn't otherwise, you can never be "very bad". Certainly far from good. But he's still not hurt by it.

2. His support affinity is actually bad. Considering nobody on the DB needs HIT, he can only really support Nolan, but everyone else wants him too. Especially units that are good beyond Part 1.

And Nolan likes it when they have def. But so what? He can support Laura anyway. Laura probably supports Aran until Nolan and Aran can build a C, then Laura supports Sothe. It's an okay idea. Gives him some hit for 3-6 as well.

(edit: changed "Zihark" to "Nolan", since Nolan is the one that cares about def and is the one I meant to suggest would support Aran if Aran is in play. Also changed the last "Aran" to "Laura", since again, that's what I meant and I just oops'd earlier.)

3. You overrate his Part 1. You get other units such as Nolan, Volug, and Zihark who become truly great units if you use them in Part 1, and REMAIN good past it. Sothe is only good for Part 1.

And that does nothing to hurt his utility in part 1. He's better than the lot of them in part 1 except Volug. But Sothe does have something for which Volug has no answer: 1-2 range.

4. Yeah, Sothe's STR is wtf for a thief class. Then you get Zihark, who is only marginally worse than Sothe. And doesn't have lolknives.

That's right. Zihark does not have the option of forging a 1-2 range weapon. Zihark also has a worse str growth and base. And no auto-support with +mt that you could probably leave active. 7mt iron knife forge vs. 6 mt wind edge. >80 hit vs. 60 hit on the weapons. Wind affinity for more hit vs. Earth (and his best supports are probably Volug and Aran, so no hit there either). So "lolknives" are far better in 1-8, for example, than what Zihark carries around. Well, brave sword for the bandits, so maybe it balances. But swords are not > knives in 1-8. In 1-E Zihark may be better. In 1-6-2 it is probably better for either a Tauroneo air drop by Jill or for Jill to carry Sothe across the river and have Sothe draw the boss from behind (with accurate 1-2 range, unlike Zihark). So either Sothe wins that chapter or neither do. 1-6-1 does see a fair amount of 1-2 range, but I'm not sure who wins there. 1-7 is the Tormod show to clear out the ledge for a quick clear with Micaiah. Muarim can take out the boss, or Tormod can weaken for someone. No wins there, either.

In short, you heavily overrate his Part 1 performance and more or less hand-wave what you've said about his "past Part 1 performance." Why do you think Jeigan is so bad? Because he is terrible past his earlygame. Same with Sothe.

His part 1 performance is 9 chapters long (1-6 cancels late join of 1-2). His part 3 is 3 chapters. His part 4 is ~4 chapters. His part 3 still allows some mass damage that many other characters can't pull off, or they can but they can't shut it off at will (admittedly with help). His 4-3 still has him being the best item finder based off success rate and the fact it is easier to load him up with items to send stuff to the convoy rather than 7 other units that you will be randomly having attempt to pick stuff up. And he has his own taxi service because you know Sigrun isn't fighting.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Paperblade]

I'd probably consider yours over his, but you don't get involved in tiers much these days anyway. At least I haven't seen you in them very often.

The FE4 list doesn't see much action, and I'm literally years behind in the FE7 and 8 lists. The last time I debated 9 was when Mist vs. Rhys and Soren vs. Tormod actually mattered.

As for Sothe, well he's better than Nolan most of the time, isn't he? They are around far more often before part 4 than after. I wish the beast killer had more hit, actually. The hit issues are probably the only reason I'd try to hold him back from a 9. He needs that part 3 utility, in my opinion, to pull a 9. We do have to trade out his weapon all the time for something that won't kill with a crit-blick, and he will probably miss at least once during the map (I think his chance of missing at least once is over 50%, depending on how much he uses it), so there are arguments for reducing the utility he gets from part 3, but he's still better than Nolan more often than Nolan is better than Sothe.

Sothe loses 1-1 because he doesn't exist, 1-2 is mitigated because Nolan is around for a few turns to keep the team alive for Sothe to actually show up and reach them. Nolan is certainly comparable if not outright better by 1-E. That gives Sothe 1-3 through 7, although Nolan still has the utility of a good affinity and Hammer, although this is probably mitigated by hidden treasure + chests.

Sothe also loses Part 3. He's 2HKO'd by Tigers even at 20/20, meaning he needs a Seraph Robe or Dracoshield (which leaves him at about 5/1HP after 2 attacks respectively at max possible level) and at much higher hit rates. 3-12 is a blowout in Nolan's favor, as Sothe doesn't even have comparable attack due to losing his effective weapon. As you pointed out, he has a huge chance to miss with the Beastkiller, meaning his offense is far less reliable, and if he uses anything else his offense becomes something like a 3RKO, so he ties offense at best and gets blown out in durability.

20/1 Nolan with Tarvos is already barely being 2HKO'd, so simply leveling up makes him 3HKO'd. Never mind the win in avoid.

Also, Nolan needs part 4 to be equal Sothe but Nolan comes to part 4 underleveled. Also, his best chapter from 4-P/1/2 is probably 4-P, but 4-3 is desert. Basically, I'm comfortable with a .5 gap between Sothe and Nolan, and if I were to try to shove Sothe down I'd have to first try to shove Nolan down, but apparently a gap of just .5 between Micaiah and Nolan is already a sacrilege, so I'm stuck with Sothe getting a 9.

Why does Nolan being underleveled matter in Part 4 compared to the GMs matter? His durability is fine, he should easily have A Earth by now, which even as low as 20/10 gives him 110 Avoid *before* authority. He's not being doubled save by SMs/Falcos, and him having no mastery doesn't matter since Sothe doesn't promote until after the chapter, at which point Nolan's massive EXP gain from being so underleveled should have him promoted or damn near to it. 20/20/1 Nolan beats 20/20/20 Sothe in HP by 4.2 and only loses Defense by 1 (before Tarvos) and Res by 6.4. Considering that Nolan has 127.2 Avoid before authority though, this barely even matters, since most enemies will have under 30 hit on him.

And then we have offense. Nolan with a forged Hand Axe has 42 atk at 1-2 range. Sothe needs capped Str (doesn't reach until about 20/10) and an attack support to tie this with either a forged knife of Peshkatz. Nolan with a forged Silver Axe has 47 attack at 1 range (46 with Tarvos). For Sothe to tie this, he would need Baselard.

Do you really think Sothe is even comparable in Part 4? This is a complete and utter blowout, far worse than anything Nolan experienced in Part 1.

1-3 4 5 6-1 6-2 7

vs.

1-1 3-6 3-12 3-13 4-P/1/2 4-3/4/5 4-E-1/2/3/4/5

Edited November 22, 2009 by Paperblade

[Interceptor]

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

Yeah, it tells me that you're going straight to my ignore list.

Which in turns tells us the measure of your maturity. Not even that you add people to the ignore list, but that you announce it.

I'd call it intellectually dishonest, but that's just me.

Men in glass houses, Paperblade.

Sothe [...] 9/10

Looking for the button that says "hell no".

Edited November 22, 2009 by Interceptor

[nflchamp]

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

It was barely criticism in the first place. It only said that Nolan's offense and durability obviously deserve more than a .5 gap between him and Micaiah. In other words, he only stated stuff we all knew and barely created a line of reasoning to go with it.

Sothe [...] 9/10

Looking for the button that says "hell no".

Well, I'd accept Sothe as a 9.0 depending on where everyone else falls, but I'm guessing I'm going to agree with you on this one.

EDIT: And it took until Zihark to have problems with smash's rankings. Aran didn't get argued until we got the feeling of how smash was ranking from Nephenee's rating.

Edited November 22, 2009 by nflchamp

[Colonel M]

Why am I being suddenly attacked? @_@;

[Blademaster!]

Based on how the list is working so far, are there going to be any characters who despite being low on the tier list are going to get a good ranking? For example, Lehran is pretty low on the tier list, but he could still get a 10 ranking in theory correct?

[Narga_Rocks]

Based on how the list is working so far, are there going to be any characters who despite being low on the tier list are going to get a good ranking? For example, Lehran is pretty low on the tier list, but he could still get a 10 ranking in theory correct?

That depends. A character ranking topic doesn't necessarily need to value availability as much as an efficiency tier list. It could just look at how valuable they are when they show up to state how worth it they are to use. Or it could simply value how much a unit contributes to the efficient completion of the game (like some tier lists), at which point Cain and Giffca won't be getting 9s for the power they have when they exist, and will instead probably get something between 5.5 and 7.0 (inclusive).

[Florete]

Sothe [...] 9/10

Looking for the button that says "hell no".

I got flamed pretty hard the last time I rated him because people thought I was giving him too much credit, but I'm still convinced he's just being hated on way too much for whatever retarded reasons people have. You people know who you are. Take this as you feel.

aka I knew you'd say that. Normally I'd listen to you, but since you've told us multiple times that you have extreme bias against Sothe, it's hard to take your criticism of him seriously. Besides, last time you only said he deserved no more than 8.5 (which even smash gave him, I believe). Assuming you haven't changed, I'll point you to my margin of error before you make any actual arguments to save yourself some time.

[Bryan]

Sothe [...] 9/10

Thank God for High Sothe ratings! Its nice that you didn't go "Bad part 4 = Low tier rating"

While most people hate knives, I like them because it assures my thief a spot in my endgame party. I would not bring volke into endgame because Sothe is already there. Why do you need two Knife users? Sothe has a free spot in endgame (which is nice,) so if you have been useing him, it won't hurt you. There are chests/ items that he can steal, so it works out fine. (I don't like his belly shirt though :( )

Edited November 22, 2009 by Bryan

[Progenitus]

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

Yeah, it tells me that you're going straight to my ignore list.

Which in turns tells us the measure of your maturity. Not even that you add people to the ignore list, but that you announce it.

fox ignores smash: sweet man

smash ignores fox: douchebag fag

never change, int

Edited November 22, 2009 by Andrew W.K.

[Bryan]

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

Yeah, it tells me that you're going straight to my ignore list.

Which in turns tells us the measure of your maturity. Not even that you add people to the ignore list, but that you announce it.

fox ignores smash: sweet man

smash ignores fox: douchebag fag

never change, int

Thats because you are being rude about it. While yes, Fox was not much better, you were the one who posted first.

[Progenitus]

It doesn't matter who was rude first. The point is that Fox is acting like a jackass and no one cares, or at least no one cares as much as me being a jackass.

[Narga_Rocks]

Let's just hope that you stop trolling me whenever I post in other topics (including you stfu in my rating topic), and hopefully we'll get along just fine.

Why should she have to do that? Just because she might be happy if you start ignoring her and not whining all the time about what she says that is no reason for her to stop commenting on your posts. Note: not trolling, she doesn't do that. At least, near as I can tell. That's something you say people are doing when they disagree with you, not something they are actually doing. If we were to believe you, any time someone has an opinion that contradicts yours they are trolling if they mention it. To apply consistency, any time you state an opinion that contradicts mine/Interceptor's/Red Fox of Fire's you are trolling us.

I'm not going to make assumptions. Answer the question.

Fine. I'd ask them why they seem accepting of Micaiah and Nolan's tier positions since 3 people in-between is not big enough to automatically constitute a full point gap on a 0-10 scale being used by 70 characters alone. In other words, if it's fine there, why isn't it here?

Wrong question. Why is it alright to ignore one person who presents a contrary view but not another?

Because a "contrary view" from Smash is par for the course. It's already been dealt with months ago.

Example:

Person A:

1+1 = 4

Person B:

No, it doesn't, this is why ....[insert explanation here]

Person A:

1+1 = 4

Person B:

I'm not going to deal with you anymore.

Person C:

Why is it alright to ignore one person who presents a contrary view?

Person D:

Um, she didn't. Not when it first came up. The fact person A never learns is no reason for person B to keep explaining why person A is wrong. If person E makes a new complaint, why shouldn't person B deal with person E's complaint but not person A's?

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

Yeah, it tells me that you're going straight to my ignore list.

Which in turns tells us the measure of your maturity. Not even that you add people to the ignore list, but that you announce it.

fox ignores smash: sweet man

smash ignores fox: douchebag fag

never change, int

Ever think about whether or not it is truly the same thing?

First off, she's not completely ignoring you. She's ignoring when you type the exact same thing as always. You come up with something new that makes sense, I'm sure she'll look into it and respond. When you type the same thing as usual, not so much.

You, however, have declared you are putting her on your ignore list. And yet you can't even see the difference?

Appeal to popularity is pretty awesome. Everyone thinks it's good, therefore it's good.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for.

Not to mention, he isn't saying: kudos, RFoF on ignoring smash. He's saying she's not appealing to popularity by doing that. If it is her own opinion, how could she possibly be appealing to popularity by acting on her own opinion?

Yeah, it tells me that you're going straight to my ignore list.

Which in turns tells us the measure of your maturity. Not even that you add people to the ignore list, but that you announce it.

You can't even tell the difference between "straight to my ignore list", which is basically sticking your hands on your ears and saying "lalalalalala", and Red Fox of Fire sticking to her own opinion not being an appeal to popularity?

I mean, I've learned you aren't rational, but you really need to stop seeing correlations where there are none. Things like that are among the reasons that people have lost respect for you.

[Progenitus]

Remind me when Fox and I ever butted heads on Nolan vs Micaiah. As far as I know this is the very first time I had to bring up Nolan vs Micaiah against anyone, let alone Fox.

Maybe it would make sense if it was an issue that we kept going over and over again, but not here. Fox isn't ignoring my point on Nolan vs Micaiah because we went over it a million times and he's sick of it, he's ignoring my point because it's me.

Also, the fact that there are only 3 or so people between nolan and Micaiah doesn't necessarily mean there's only a 0.5 point gap. You're ignoring that there's a tier break between them, which could indeed mean that there's a larger gap than that, since tier gaps are supposed to represent a "large" difference in performance. For example, in FEDS H5, if SedGAR and Wolf are 10s, then it's entirely possible for the next best character (be it Barst or Merric or whoever), with a tier gap separating the two, to get something much lower than 9.5, despite them being directly below.

[Florete]

You come up with something new that makes sense, I'm sure she'll look into it and respond. When you type the same thing as usual, not so much.

Yeah, that. In fact, smash, I might have even responded to your post normally if it hadn't included the following:

You already have a problem 4 ratings in. At least for me it took until Aran where people started to complain.

Which looks like pretty blatant elitism. You're pretty much saying you're better at this kind of thing because it took longer for people to complain, yet you were the only one to complain.

Also

Let's just hope that you stop trolling me whenever I post in other topics (including you stfu in my rating topic), and hopefully we'll get along just fine.

I don't think I made a single post in your rating topic that had anything to do with your ratings after Lehran, which I dumped. Oh, I think I also agreed when you said Marcia might go up. If I wanted, I could go in there and complain about the multitude of problems I have with it, but that would be a big waste of my time.

In the end, I know you'll have problems with later ratings of mine, so the fact that you're already ignoring me will turn out to be a good thing.

[Narga_Rocks]

Remind me when Fox and I ever butted heads on Nolan vs Micaiah. As far as I know this is the very first time I had to bring up Nolan vs Micaiah against anyone, let alone Fox.

Maybe it would make sense if it was an issue that we kept going over and over again, but not here. Fox isn't ignoring my point on Nolan vs Micaiah because we went over it a million times and he's sick of it, he's ignoring my point because it's me.

How many times have we said RFoF is female? As if it isn't enough that her profile states it.

And I think you have made anti-Micaiah sentiments known (at least, that she doesn't belong near the top of upper mid), but if I'm remembering wrong then just read her post for why she doesn't want to bother with you. You might as well take a response from the person who did it rather than someone that can only guess at her intentions. I get it right sometimes, but not always.

Also, the fact that there are only 3 or so people between nolan and Micaiah doesn't necessarily mean there's only a 0.5 point gap. You're ignoring that there's a tier break between them, which could indeed mean that there's a larger gap than that, since tier gaps are supposed to represent a "large" difference in performance. For example, in FEDS H5, if SedGAR and Wolf are 10s, then it's entirely possible for the next best character (be it Barst or Merric or whoever), with a tier gap separating the two, to get something much lower than 9.5, despite them being directly below.

There are exceptions to every rule. Not as if my saying that proves that most of the time it'll work out. So for this case, I'll get more specific:

There is only so much space on the scale. The gaps aren't nearly like in FE:DS. Another unit that might possibly be able to have a full point over the next lowest is Titania in PoR. 10 over 9 or something. But in this case, 10 and 9.5 seem reasonable for top tier-like units, 9 and 8.5 for high, and 8 down to 7 for upper mid. Possibly down to 6.5 or something. While it is possible to have a 1 point gap in a short space like that, and in fact Haar and Ike are probably 10s and they are about that close to Sothe and Titania who are probably 9s, it seems unlikely that all of high tier could be a 9. There is a pretty big difference between Gatrie's contributions to the GMs and Nolan's contributions to the DB. 1-1 is the only thing to which Gatrie has no response (since Gatrie is never so much better than almost everybody else, nor is he ever even #1). But Gatrie's other wins should be enough to justify a .5 gap. Micaiah could maybe have the 7.5 you gave her, but it isn't as if RFoF didn't say not to bother with issues that are resolved by a change of .5.

Nolan has 8.5, Micaiah has 8.0. Based on her stated margin of error, that is similar to your 9.0 for Nolan and 7.5 for Micaiah. I realize that could be similar to a cop-out, but the idea here is probably to cut down on small arguments resolved by a change of .5 and only to bother with issues that are at least 1.0 off. It's too easy to say a number should move by .5 up or down. The topic could easily get bogged down in every complaint about a unit that is off by .5.

As for justifying Micaiah's 8.0? Thani utility and staff usage and even Nosferatu-tanking is probably enough. Staves may not be as important in this game as, say, fe5 (where a staff user with worse durability than Micaiah is currently on top), but they are still very useful. There is no way Micaiah should have the same rating as Laura, for example, but I'd be unwilling to give Laura less than 7.5. I guess you were, though (edit: that is to say, willing to give them the same score). Still, you can see Laura as a 7.5. I can see reasons for giving Micaiah a higher score than Laura, and reasons for giving Nolan a lower score than Gatrie. I can't see Gatrie getting a 9.5, so I'm left with a .5 gap between Micaiah and Nolan.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Florete]

I get it right sometimes, but not always.

Sometimes it's scary how often you are right. Seriously:

Nolan has 8.5, Micaiah has 8.0. Based on her stated margin of error, that is similar to your 9.0 for Nolan and 7.5 for Micaiah. I realize that could be similar to a cop-out, but the idea here is probably to cut down on small arguments resolved by a change of .5 and only to bother with issues that are at least 1.0 off. It's too easy to say a number should move by .5 up or down. The topic could easily get bogged down in every complaint about a unit that is off by .5.

That's just perfect, probably much better than I would have explained it had I tried.

[Loki Laufeyson]

*Walks in thinking this would be a good topic. Walks out realizing how many SOBs take this shit so damned seriously* Umm you know...its just a game.

Also Sothe is ass after part one. My two cents. :) Other than stealing, hes pointless.

[dondon151]

Yeah why don't you go life card your way out of this topic okay bye

[Bryan]

*Walks in thinking this would be a good topic. Walks out realizing how many SOBs take this shit so damned seriously* Umm you know...its just a game.

Also Sothe is ass after part one. My two cents. :) Other than stealing, hes pointless.

He is your only beastkiller user inside of part three. That weapon can help a TON.

[Florete]

Ilyana

There are so many fetishes attached to Ilyana it's not even funny. She could eat forever but she never gets fat. She faints a lot. She wears a short skirt and eyewitness reports say she occasionally flashes a panty shot in-game. Needless to say, she has a lot of fans.

It's too bad she kind of sucks as a unit on the field, though. She comes in 1-3 at level 12, higher than anyone except Sothe, but without the stats to show for it. Her durability is just as bad as anyone else's in that she gets 2 hit KOd by everything, and she doesn't double much at all. Her 2 range chip damage game is nice, only really beaten by Micaiah, but she's prone to missing on occasion, which is just annoying. Even if she did level at a fast pace, her growths are not very good, especially that horrid 30% Speed that sends any hopes of doubling into 4-E-3. This is her in part 1; Helpful for a bit, but honestly not that good.

Then part 3 comes and slaps Ilyana in the face. Instead of being overleveled and nothing special, she's now underleveled and complete crap. Her durability is among the worst on the team and so is her offense, and since her growths are not very good, that doesn't really change. I really don't need to overview the rest of the game, this is pretty much how she is for the rest of her existence. Crap durability and crap offense.

Okay, so her Light affinity is not that bad. Defense and Hit is a weird combo but can be useful. Unfortunately, any support she builds in part 1 will be left behind for part 3 where she'll have to start fresh again, so she isn't likely to make much use of her support in part 1 since everyone who would want her wants someone who is going to stick around with the Dawn Brigade. By the time she gets to part 3 it's unlikely anyone really wants her since no one wants to babysit her frail ass.

All she's really good for is chip damage in part 1, but even that can be done better and is eventually obsoleted. After that she sucks.

3/10

Transfer changes:

Ilyana can reasonably get Magic, Skill, and Resistance with a Path of Radiance transfer. Unfortunately, this still does not help much. What she wants is Speed and Defense. Magic will increase her chip damage but won't really make a big difference, Skill will help her hit a little, and Resistance helps against the Sages, but those are all very small advantages that are worth very little when her other problems still exist. As a result, she does not get a separate transfer rating.

Aran

I almost forgot to review this guy. I was about to go onto Meg when I remembered there was another recruit in 1-3 besides Ilyana. I guess it makes sense since there's absolutely nothing about his character that stands out, if you can say he even has a character. His only dialogue is his recruitment, death, and a few base conversations, as well as his ever-so-generic supports. Even his sprite on the field looks like a generic enemy soldier, and he doesn't say anything when he shows up on the map, so people have accidentally killed him because they thought he was a normal enemy.

But you aren't reading this to find out what I think of a character's looks or personality, you want to know how good or bad they are. Aran is quite the interesting case. He has 70+ growths in Strength, Skill, and Defense but average to crap growths elsewhere. He's basically a tank that hits hard, but only once. He comes a few turns into 1-3, recruited by Laura, and is pretty average for now. His durability is average, his offense is average, nothing special really. He kind of gets bitten in the ass in 1-4 since he's the only front liner susceptible to being crit killed (And I have personally had that happen), but that's the worst of his problems. As long as you can level him well enough to get his high growths to kick in, he'll be a fairly solid tank for part 1, although he'll need occasional healing since he doesn't dodge a thing with a lousy 105% avoid growth. His part 1 is mostly average. He's not bad, and he does well in certain situations, but he doesn't exactly live up to a lot of others.

His part 3 is probably a bit better. If he gets Speed screwed bad enough he might run into trouble against the 41 MT, 18 AS Tigers in 3-6, but he is otherwise one of the better options for a wall since he can avoid most 2RKOs. Despite high Strength, his never-doubling offense can be rather annoying, but it's still good enough so that he won't be any kind of hindrance to the team.

He, like some other Brigade members, is really not worth using in part 4 since his Speed is just so bad. Too many other characters will perform better than him for training him up to be worthwhile.

His Thunder affinity is nice and works well with his innately high Defense. It especially helps in part 3 where there are plenty of times that even just a +2 allow him to take another round from enemy Laguz. As I mentioned in her review, I like to support Laura with Aran for the speed, but if you choose to support him with someone else, like Jill or Edward, his bonuses can be a pretty good help to them as well since most Brigade members like the Defense boost.

Aran's utility really comes from the fact that his team is largely Defense deprived until stronger units come in, and then he just remains average for a while. He won't likely get in your way, but I don't feel he always does a lot to help the team progress either. Still, he's a good choice for the defense-based missions the Brigade faces in part 3 since he requires less healing than most others.

6.5/10

Edited December 25, 2010 by Yui

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah, I'll just leave the Ilyana thing alone. Maybe come back to it depending on what some units get later, but probably not bother.Don't mind me. (4.0)

[Bryan]

Ilyana

There are so many fetishes attached to Ilyana it's not even funny. She could eat forever but she never gets fat. She faints a lot. She wears a short skirt and eyewitness reports say she occasionally flashes a panty shot in-game. Needless to say, she has a lot of fans.

It's too bad she kind of sucks as a unit on the field, though. She comes in 1-3 at level 12, higher than anyone except Sothe, but without the stats to show for it. Her durability is just as bad as anyone else's in that she gets 2 hit KOd by everything, and she doesn't double much at all. Her 2 range chip damage game is nice, only really beaten by Micaiah, but she's prone to missing on occasion, which is just annoying. Even if she did level at a fast pace, her growths are not very good, especially that horrid 30% Speed that sends any hopes of doubling into 4-E-3. This is her in part 1; Helpful for a bit, but honestly not that good.

Then part 3 comes and slaps Ilyana in the face. Instead of being overleveled and nothing special, she's now underleveled and complete crap. Her durability is among the worst on the team and so is her offense, and since her growths are not very good, that doesn't really change. I really don't need to overview the rest of the game, this is pretty much how she is for the rest of her existence. Crap durability and crap offense.

Okay, so her Light affinity is not that bad. Defense and Hit is a weird combo but can be useful. Unfortunately, any support she builds in part 1 will be left behind for part 3 where she'll have to start fresh again, so she isn't likely to make much use of her support in part 1 since everyone who would want her wants someone who is going to stick around with the Dawn Brigade. By the time she gets to part 3 it's unlikely anyone really wants her since no one wants to babysit her frail ass.

All she's really good for is chip damage in part 1, but even that can be done better and is eventually obsoleted. After that she sucks.

3/10

Transfer changes:

Ilyana can reasonably get Magic, Skill, and Resistance with a Path of Radiance transfer. Unfortunately, this still does not help much. What she wants is Speed and Defense. Magic will increase her chip damage but won't really make a big difference, Skill will help her hit a little, and Resistance helps against the Sages, but those are all very small advantages that are worth very little when her other problems still exist. As a result, she does not get a separate transfer rating.

Yeah, I'll just leave the Ilyana thing alone. Maybe come back to it depending on what some units get later, but probably not bother.Don't mind me. (4.0)

I'm gonna touch this: :)

Two things on Ilyana that are important are; she is the only rexbolt user (For whatever that is worth. D: ) As well as being the unit with the most playtime. There things should bring her up to a 4.0. Although I won't argue her any higher than that.

(Go Ilyana Fetish?)

Edited November 23, 2009 by Bryan