Why is Micaiah is often called a Mary Sue?

[Fayt Zelpher]

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

[-Cynthia-]

I took the test, her score wasn't that high. I only got a 76. Maybe you checked some of the boxes that said "do you want to be this character" and such that are really author-specific.

Although even so, yeah it's true Micaiah has a lot of Sue qualities. The point is that most FE lordsaare Mary Sues.

[Candlejack]

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

lol.

Proof enough you little defenders? Can we take a test for Sanaki as well?

[-Cynthia-]

Sanaki isn't a major character, it's highly unusual to have a minor character be a Sue.

Sanaki got 22 when I took it.

[Fayt Zelpher]

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

lol.

Proof enough you little defenders? Can we take a test for Sanaki as well?

A rough perusal yields a 34 for her. In other words, Sue is on the loose, but is not off the deep-end (in the case of original works or RPG's) just yet.

[Anouleth]

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

lol.

Proof enough you little defenders? Can we take a test for Sanaki as well?

Of course, that test is GOSPEL as to what constitutes a Sue and what doesn't. It couldn't possibly be just a tick-list of various cliched qualities and powers that many amateur writers resort to. Because after all, everyone agrees what constitutes a Mary-Sue.

As for her silver hair, special mark, etc:

Answer all questions for which the answer is 'yes' or 'technically yes' unless the item mentioned is commonplace in the universe you are writing for. If most people in your story's world have wings, skip the question about flying. If it's established that anyone can have technicolor hair (as in many Japanese cartoons) pink coifs don't apply as "unusually" colored hair. If your character had an exotic name because you make up most of your characters' names, you would not answer yes to having an unusual-sounding name that you made up. Sue-ness is relative.

So Micaiah having silver hair isn't a Sue characteristic. Nor would many of the things on the list apply to her (the box for 'being part-furry but not showing it', for example, since it's established that every Branded character looks that way).

Also:

Please, please, please remember that these are the symptoms, not the disease. I am not implying that each of these traits is inheirently bad and should be avoided at all costs. Think of them as being like salt or spices - they serve to enhance the dish when used in the right amounts, but when used too liberally, the result tends to be quite unappetizing.

So all this quiz does is check for symptoms of Mary-Suism. It's perfectly possible to write a character like this and have him or her not be a Mary-Sue.

[BrightBow]

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

lol.

Proof enough you little defenders? Can we take a test for Sanaki as well?

The numbers only even have a chance to tell us anything if can figure out the average score for Fire Emblem Main characters. As far as i can tell they are all descendants of great heroes or sometimes gods which is why they are usually also nobels. They are the leaders of giant armies and are an inspiration for everyone who follows them. And of course they are always saving the entire known world of a great evil. I'm pretty sure they would all score pretty damn high.

Edited January 10, 2010 by BrightBow-User

[General Spoon]

I don't think she's a bigger Sue than Ike, she can't kill the final boss because he has to do it even though she is tied much more to the plot than he is. He had that same exclusivity with Ashnard, and he had his own game already.

All the lordesses have to share their importance with a lord, not one has had a game all to herself. Ike has PoR to himself and in Radiant Dawn he is treated as a more important lord. Flawless everything, and Micaiah is treated like a pawn by Pelleas.

Micaiah: Take all the power that I have.

This is what enables him to kill Ashera. Sounds like a Sue to me.

That was Yune, not Micaiah. It really has nothing to do with her potential Sue-ness. It's like you are attempting to double-count the fact that she is the vessel for Yune. It doesn't work that way.

Except the point is, Ike being able to kill Ashera doesn't make him a Sue as previously stated.

He's the only one that can kill Ashera. None of the previous fire emblem games that I have played have that exclusivity to only one character unless I forgot they did.

You mean Arum?

[Candlejack]

I don't think she's a bigger Sue than Ike, she can't kill the final boss because he has to do it even though she is tied much more to the plot than he is. He had that same exclusivity with Ashnard, and he had his own game already.

All the lordesses have to share their importance with a lord, not one has had a game all to herself. Ike has PoR to himself and in Radiant Dawn he is treated as a more important lord. Flawless everything, and Micaiah is treated like a pawn by Pelleas.

Micaiah: Take all the power that I have.

This is what enables him to kill Ashera. Sounds like a Sue to me.

That was Yune, not Micaiah. It really has nothing to do with her potential Sue-ness. It's like you are attempting to double-count the fact that she is the vessel for Yune. It doesn't work that way.

Except the point is, Ike being able to kill Ashera doesn't make him a Sue as previously stated.

He's the only one that can kill Ashera. None of the previous fire emblem games that I have played have that exclusivity to only one character unless I forgot they did.

You mean Arum?

lol yeah pretty much.

Of course, that test is GOSPEL as to what constitutes a Sue and what doesn't. It couldn't possibly be just a tick-list of various cliched qualities and powers that many amateur writers resort to. Because after all, everyone agrees what constitutes a Mary-Sue.

Somebody is jealous their lovable sue is sue'd.

So all this quiz does is check for symptoms of Mary-Suism. It's perfectly possible to write a character like this and have him or her not be a Mary-Sue.

Yeah have fun good luck with making a character with those symptoms and having it not be even a little bit sue.

[Fayt Zelpher]

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

Yep. I casually took the test on her behalf. She got a 130. Anything over 50 is considered to be start over, kill the character dead territory.

lol.

Proof enough you little defenders? Can we take a test for Sanaki as well?

The numbers only even have a chance to tell us anything if can figure out the average score for Fire Emblem Main characters. As far as i can tell they are all descendants of great heroes or sometimes gods which is why they are usually also nobels. They are the leaders of giant armies and are an inspiration for everyone who follows them. And of course they are always saving the entire known world of a great evil. I'm pretty sure they would all score pretty damn high.

FE9 Ike scored a mere 35 when I took it. Unless you think that 35 = 130, I'd imagine that Micaiah takes the cake. Of course, if you want to bring another FE lord/main's score into consideration, feel free to do so.

[Sol Hiryu]

To be fair, that test really doesn't quite prove anything; a person could have all the qualities of a Sue/Stu, yet turn out reasonably good if the story's execution is good enough. Many favorite characters we know would fail the Mary Sue litmus test, honestly.

Which is to say, Micaiah is perceived as a Sue mostly because of FE10's shoddy execution in her parts. She wouldn't be quite so bad had the story not emphasized her abilities every single chance it got.

(For the record, I think Micaiah is okay and not as much as a Sue as I used to think she was. Still pretty Sue-ish, though.)

[Just call me AL]

I took the test, her score wasn't that high. I only got a 76. Maybe you checked some of the boxes that said "do you want to be this character" and such that are really author-specific.

Although even so, yeah it's true Micaiah has a lot of Sue qualities. The point is that most FE lords are Mary Sues.

Actually, they're escapist characters, which have the supposed "traits", but are loved, rather than hated, mainly because the audience wished they could be like them. The difference between a Mary Sue and an escapist character is that the former exists for the author's wish fulfillment, while the latter exists for the audience's wish fulfillment, which I may assume was the original goal for Micaiah. But apparently, most likely due to some bad writing on I.S.'s part, she isn't very liked

[Loki Laufeyson]

I took the test for Micaiah and got a 119. (!!!) Thats just, wtf. In all reality, i think Ike would have a similar score.

(oddly enough i took the test for one of my protagonists and ended up with a -1.)

[Fayt Zelpher]

I took the test for Micaiah and got a 119. (!!!) Thats just, wtf. In all reality, i think Ike would have a similar score.

(oddly enough i took the test for one of my protagonists and ended up with a -1.)

Well, FE9 Ike got a rather pathetic in comparison 35 when I did it for him. When extended to the whole Tellius story arc, it goes up to a 54. If it means anything for comparison, I got 134 for FE10 Micaiah.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Randomly Predictable

[Candlejack]

Okay we've gotten the fact that Micaiah is a mega-sue out of the way. what about Sothe?

[Narga_Rocks]

Okay we've gotten the fact that Micaiah is a mega-sue out of the way. what about Sothe?

No, we've covered that YOU (and a bunch of others) think she's a mega-sue. Others think she's a bit sue-ish. Others don't think she's sue-ish at all. And your "proof" quiz thing isn't exactly a recognized authority on the subject of sue-ness.

[Candlejack]

Okay we've gotten the fact that Micaiah is a mega-sue out of the way. what about Sothe?

No, we've covered that YOU (and a bunch of others) think she's a mega-sue. Others think she's a bit sue-ish. Others don't think she's sue-ish at all. And your "proof" quiz thing isn't exactly a recognized authority on the subject of sue-ness.

Can you argue that its inaccurate?

[Junkhead]

Micaiah scored 96 for me, and this is not counting Part 3: Fan characters.

Really, it says you should take the test again if you got an insane score as you guys did, I was being honest when answering all those questions, completely honest, even pointing out the mistakes of Micaiah, but sure, obviously since many of you dislike her you could easily even answer the part where it asks if the characters can speak to animals most of you might've answered yes, but I didn't, take note laguz aren't exactly animals but people.

[Candlejack]

Micaiah scored 96 for me, and this is not counting Part 3: Fan characters.

Really, it says you should take the test again if you got an insane score as you guys did, I was being honest when answering all those questions, completely honest, even pointing out the mistakes of Micaiah, but sure, obviously since many of you dislike her you could easily even answer the part where it asks if the characters can speak to animals most of you might've answered yes, but I didn't, take note laguz aren't exactly animals but people.

I took the test and got an 82.

I practically shat a firehouse when I saw the scores the other guys posted.

It seems that Micaiah does fit Sue properties.

[Junkhead]

Indeed, she does. But saying she's the biggest Mary Sue (Or below Bella Swan) is a bit too much, no? Because like many of you have said, she isn't favored when it comes to gameplay.

But gameplay isn't a factor we should count in, right? I don't think EVERYONE love her, just most of the Daeins do for the fact she is using Sacrifice to heal many people and drive the Begnion forces out, but that's what the Dawn Brigade does.

Micaiah is only more recognized between the Dawn Brigade, it's easy, most would notice her when she's the only women in the group and has unsual hair color.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Soul

[Naglfar]

Okay we've gotten the fact that Micaiah is a mega-sue out of the way. what about Sothe?

Sothe? Where'd this come from?

[Saint Nightroad]

When making Micaiah, Intelligent Systems was probably reading a Mary Sue litmus test... and checking every answer... they even gave her a healing touch, which was specifically listed in some tests.

I'd like to see this test if you can find it.

http://www.katfeete.net/writing/marysue.html

Edited January 11, 2010 by Saint Wolfwood

[Junkhead]

1) Check all statements that apply.

2) Answer honestly.

3) If you're trying to convince yourself that something doesn't really apply to your character, then it does. See #2.

Those are the three EXTACT rules you should keep in mind when doing a Mary Sue test, which isn't what many of those who got Micaiah above 100 did. :/

[Candlejack]

I took the second one and got an 88.

[-Cynthia-]

1) Check all statements that apply.

2) Answer honestly.

3) If you're trying to convince yourself that something doesn't really apply to your character, then it does. See #2.

Those are the three EXTACT rules you should keep in mind when doing a Mary Sue test, which isn't what many of those who got Micaiah above 100 did. :/

Extact? Also, look at the third rule, if we're going to get into specifics, it says your character. We didn't make Micaiah, so we can't answer yes to any of the "do you want to be your character?" sort of questions. These tests seem to be designed to determine whether an author's character is a Sue, not to evaluate any character in existence.

I got a 42 on the second test, which puts her in the acceptable range, I didn't check any of the boxes that pertained to the similarity between the writer and Micaiah because I really can't speak for IS like that. I think some people are checking all these boxes, which really skews the results in the Sue direction.

Edited January 11, 2010 by -Cynthia-