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Ross: Berserker. Hes ok as a Warrior but hes much better as a Berserker. (if you make him a Hero, just....no..)
No different than the other amount of advice given for Ross. However, I will ask this: What makes you think Berserker is the best way to go for Ross? You only have one Ocean Seal for 90% of the game, and that really puts you in a pickle if you wanna promote Colm. Hero is actually and arguably the best way to go for Ross. He doesn't need bows because Hand Axes already allow him to attack indirectly. He'll want swords for WTM, and it's not like he'll reach the Berserker caps.
Gerik: RANGER! I do not approve of Hero Gerik.
Give me one good reason why Gerik would want bows instead of axes. Hand Axes will give him 1-2 range, not to mention he'll want to be in support range should he support anyone.
Garcia: Usually Warrior.
Swords > Bows, and he'll want the speed bonus.

Ross: He works well with the Warrior class but he gets a speed bonus as a Berserker. That innate crit bonus is freaking nice. Plus he can move on just about any terrain. As for the Ocean Seal, so? You get a Master Seal a few chapters later. Whats wrong with using that? Or if you have a bunch of change lying around, you could always buy another Ocean Seal if you are feeling bold. No problem there. That Ocean Seal i get first goes to Colm anyway.

Gerik as a Hero never works well for me. Ranger gets bonus move and i like that. Plus he gets better res even though his res is kinda shitty to begin with.

Garcia as a Hero sucks. Speed or no. D:

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Ross: He works well with the Warrior class but he gets a speed bonus as a Berserker. That innate crit bonus is freaking nice. Plus he can move on just about any terrain. As for the Ocean Seal, so? You get a Master Seal a few chapters later. Whats wrong with using that? Or if you have a bunch of change lying around, you could always buy another Ocean Seal if you are feeling bold. No problem there. That Ocean Seal i get first goes to Colm anyway.

And thus, Berserker Ross gets a level loss compared to Hero Ross. Now Hero Ross not only wins defense, but will probably have the offensive edge, too.

And Warrior is not in anyway near equal to Hero. Hero is faster and gets a much better backup weapon, while being equally strong.

Gerik as a Hero never works well for me. Ranger gets bonus move and i like that. Plus he gets better res even though his res is kinda shitty to begin with.

If it were 8 move, like the Nomad Troopers got, that might have been the case. However, he gets only 7 move(lol at rangers- nerfed Nomad Troopers). 1 move will never ever beat out that 1-2 range.

Garcia as a Hero sucks. Speed or no. D:

Garcia sucks whatever you make him, lol. But he is a lot better as a Hero than a Warrior.

1 more HP, equal strength, 2 more speed, 1 less res, 1 less def. Loses two con, but his con is already really high.

Gains C swords, alowing him to equip Killing Edges immediately, as opposed to Warrior, which is stuck with E Bows and Iron Bows.

Hero Garcia murders Warrior Garcia.

Gerik and Garcia both want to go Hero. Ross goes either Berserker or Hero.

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Warrior sucks in this, don't it.

But here are my personal suggestions:

Franz the Paladin: While Great Knight is just the better class, Franz's natural growths round this off and actually have almost parallel even stats. Paladin, however, gets 9 MOV, while GK does not.

Gilliam the General: People overrate that one extra MOV when they could get better average stats by going General.

Vanessa the Wyvern Knight: Gets +2 in SKL and +1 in SPD as well as Pierce, which is occasionally useful against the boss monster.

Moulder the Boulder Bishop: Gets a higher average STR, SKL, and HP going this route. Plus, you have enough competition for Anima tomes already. And Bishop is very nice.

Ross the Berserker: Basically its between a much higher STR average, terrain mastery, and a crit bonus vs. swords. Too bad he's still lol in the SPD department.

Garcia the Hero: Basically if you want him to do ANYTHING useful, make him a Hero.

Neimi the Ranger: Really?

Colm the Rogue: Basically it's between a very average combat unit vs. a unit who is primarily for utility but also makes for a very average combat unit. Free item slot > crit bonus for Colm.

Artur the Sage: Higher averages sez wut

Lute the Mage Knight: Basically its slightly higher stats vs. horse. Either way she gets staves which is wtfawesome, so stick with a Mage-Troub.

Natasha the Valkyrie: If only for the fact she reaches her STR cap earlier than Bishop Natasha.

Joshua the Swordmaster: It's a toughie but SM wins it over for the crit bonus against Assassin's better averages.

Forde the Great Knight: Why in God's name does GK reach its SPD cap earlier than Paladin's?

Kyle the Great Knight: Turn that wall into a tank!

Tana the Wyvern Knight: Higher SPD and STR.

Amelia the piece of shit Great Knight: If only because the awesomeness of GK gives her shitiness a SLIIIIIIIIGHT hit.

Gerik the Hero: While Ranger reaches its STR cap earlier, Hero gets Axes. OHHHHH SHIIIIIIII-

Marisa the Assassin: The only good Assassin but she's still terrible.

L'arachel the Valkyrie: There is SUCH a little difference between the two but if forced at gunpoint, I'd take Val's higher RES. Yes. The RES is the deciding factor. THAT close.

Ewan the Druid: BY POPULAR DEMAND since he's shit too.

Cormag the Wyvern Lord: It's a damn good class since it gets actual averages to speak of (20/11 caps STR), and though Swords might not mean much, the promo bonuses alone are > than Wyvern Knight's.

Knoll the Summoner: Druid only gets a +1 lead in DEF at 20/20.

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Best promotions are Lord(Eir)->Great Lord(Eir) and Knight(M)->General(M). Eir is getting +2 at least in every stat except Speed, which is still +1, and gets +3 in DEF/RES and +4 in HP. And Gilliam is getting a bunch of weapon types, and +3 SPD, with +2s all across the board.

Best promotions ever. If only everyone could promote in the same way...

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Ross: He works well with the Warrior class but he gets a speed bonus as a Berserker. That innate crit bonus is freaking nice. Plus he can move on just about any terrain. As for the Ocean Seal, so? You get a Master Seal a few chapters later. Whats wrong with using that? Or if you have a bunch of change lying around, you could always buy another Ocean Seal if you are feeling bold. No problem there. That Ocean Seal i get first goes to Colm anyway.
But what happens when someone else wants the Master Seal even more? At any rate, ditto what RWB said.
Gerik as a Hero never works well for me. Ranger gets bonus move and i like that. Plus he gets better res even though his res is kinda shitty to begin with.
1. Ditto what RWB said about Gerik. 2. Personal experience means nothing.
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Yeah, General Gilliam is better than GK Gilliam. must have thought a bit wrong about that one.

I still stand by going Paladin over GK, as long as speed isn't screwed. Though Amelia is short on MT so she just may need those Axes. But that's simply because I like having a mobile team, so I may be a little biased.

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That and GK > Paladin in nearly everything except lolSKL and MOV. I mean, they have the same SPD cap for goodness sake.

And then the promotional gains just RAPE the Paladin's when compared; they get 4 CON over P's 1. The only thing that the Paladins beat them in is one extra MOV.

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Agreeing with the Lloyd dude except for:

Moulder: Sage. Bishop's Slayer isn't really necessary agains anything not called a Cyclops, and those are somewhat rare. In any case, they can also be taken down easily by other units. The extra mag and Anima's additional might lets him do more damage to human enemies.And he gets to use Elfire instanty :)

I think Bishop can be argued against Sage if Moulder promotes before Ch11 and Ch12, where Slayer insta-destroys. But for the most part, Sage seems better.

Vanessa: Wyvern Knight. Falcoknight has less Def, but Wyvern Knight has Pierce, which really helps out on offense if she can't get a ORKO. And the triangle attack isn't exactly the best thing in the world.

Pierce is level%, so it'll never be any higher than 10% or so, and that's lategame. Falcoknight has slightly better promotional bonuses, and I'd prefer having swords for getting like +30% avo against axes than having slightly better con when using lances.

Ross: Pirate -> Berserker. Basically, Waterwalk + Additional crit = Nice.

I'd say Hero and Berserker are about even. Hero has the awesome Brave Sword access, though that's lategame only.

Artur: Sage. See Moulder.

Same deal as Moulder, pretty much...Bishop gets a higher staff level, which seems reason enough to me to pick it.

Ewan: Shaman -> Druid. He gets both Dark and Anima magic, which is pretty cool. Flux and Nosferatu are good Darkness spells, and Anima is also rather okay, though Flux should suffice. You don't need 2 Summonersat once as well.

Summoning and staves is all he can be good for unless you are going to towerwhore him up to par, in which case I'd still rather have summons than anima. What's he going to use anima for, anyway? There's hardly any Light enemies, and Flux has the same mt as Thunder, which is the best spammable anima tome.

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Moulder: Sage. Bishop's Slayer isn't really necessary agains anything not called a Cyclops, and those are somewhat rare. In any case, they can also be taken down easily by other units. The extra mag and Anima's additional might lets him do more damage to human enemies.And he gets to use Elfire instanty :)

I think Bishop can be argued against Sage if Moulder promotes before Ch11 and Ch12, where Slayer insta-destroys. But for the most part, Sage seems better.

Actually, there was some good discussion on this subject in another topic starting about here. I personally say Bishop.

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http://www.serenesforest.net/fe8/calc.html

Experience from defeating (base)

= [(enemy's Level x enemy's Class power) + enemy's Class bonus B] - { [(Level x Class power) + Class bonus B] / Mode coefficient }

Experience from defeating enemy = [Experience from doing damage + (Experience from defeating (base) + 20 + Boss bonus + Thief bonus, take as 0 if negative)] x Silencer bonus

Class power: 1 for Journeyman (1), Recruit (1), Pupil (1), Civilian, Pontifex and Entombed, 2 for Cleric, Soldier, Troubadour, Manakete (M), Manakete (F), Thief, Priest and Dancer, 5 for Demon King, 3 for everything else.

Class bonus A: 0 for non-promoted classes, 20 for promoted classes.

Class bonus B: 0 for non-promoted classes, 40 for Assassins, Rogues, Bishops and Valkyries, 60 for all other promoted classes.

Mode coefficient: Initially treat this value as being 1. If Experience from defeating (base) is calculated as 0 or negative, this value becomes 2 instead. For all other cases it remains 1.

Joshua: Assassin. 15% crt and 1 more point of strenth/hp is not going to outweigh exp bonuses and additional exp bonuses from the occational lethality kill

Marisa: Assassin. See Joshua

Arthur: Bishop. Bishop's EXP bonus+slayer+higher staff ranks+lategame WTA>slightly better magic type

Moulder: Bishop. Light magic is easier to build up due to shine being availible earlier than elfire. Also Sages don't get the EXP bonus. Thunder only has 2 more might than shine and therefore going sage yields short run benefits. However, long run benefits from an EXP bonus, staff exp bonus, and slayer for lategame obviously outweigh the short run benefits that going sage gives to moulder. Due to the fact that bishops level up faster, the small offensive advantage anima tomes provide early on gets closed up as Moulder(bishop) will have higher levels and therefore higher stats.

Edited by Brighton
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Joshua as an assasin is a waste, mainly because he makes a great Swordmaster, he also at least gets +2 Str and a critical bonus, he is more offensive than Marisa.

Now, Marisa does make a great assassin, because, unlike Joshua, she has great Avo, she is more Avo reliable thanks to Luck, her caps kinda git her mediocre Str, she will also have a better activation rate of Silencer than Colm thanks to much higher Skill.

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He also makes a great Assassin. But SM is still better.

And Marisa doesn't make a great Assassin because Marisa doesn't make a great anything.

SM's 15% crt advantage does not outweigh those exp bonus advantages IMO. By the late part of the game, any promoted unit will own almost everything anyway so the very unreliable lethality for enemies with high HP is just as useful as 15% critical. SM's are just inferior heroes IMO. The set up still relies on use of shamshirs/killing edges and supports in order to consistantly critical anyway. 15% by itself is not significant enough.

And Marisa doesn't make a great Assassin because Marisa doesn't make a great anything.

Lol...true

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Joshua: Assassin. 15% crt and 1 more point of strenth/hp is not going to outweigh exp bonuses and additional exp bonuses from the occational lethality kill

I don't know where you get this idea that Assassins get an exp bonus other than the occasional Silencer bonus, but you're wrong. Assassins get an exp bonus if AND ONLY IF they kill with Silencer. Also, personally, I don't think *ANY* of the potential Assassins would be particularly amazing as one... Colm and Joshua lack the supports (only two of their partners give full Crit), and Marisa's shafted in the affinity department.

Edited by Richter Renard
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...What? Marisa has Ice and, assuming you'll use her for whatever reason, has a decent support list; Gerik and Tethys provides ideal supports for her, and even Joshua and Colm amplify her crit to larger amounts. Although the only actual one that will be possible in an efficiency runthrough is with Gerik; 20+3 may not be the most amazing rate of support, but it beats the other options.

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Joshua: Assassin. 15% crt and 1 more point of strenth/hp is not going to outweigh exp bonuses and additional exp bonuses from the occational lethality kill

I don't know where you get this idea that Assassins get an exp bonus other than the occasional Silencer bonus, but you're wrong. Assassins get an exp bonus if AND ONLY IF they kill with Silencer. Also, personally, I don't think *ANY* of the potential Assassins would be particularly amazing as one... Colm and Joshua lack the supports (only two of their partners give full Crit), and Marisa's shafted in the affinity department.

Joshua's offense isn't going to be much worse no matter what he promotes to, especially by lategame (by than everyone is amazing anyway). The Assassins are grouped with the Rogues, Valkyries, and Bishops for getting an inherent EXP bonus, I think YOU are wrong. The calculations page on this website if I'm correct indicate they get more EXP for a kill. My argument is 15% critical will not suddenly make Joshua start critically consistantly, and if you are relying on criticals to kill enemies with Joshua to begin with instead of planning a back up plan in case he does, you're playing the game wrong.

Edited by Brighton
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Joshua: Assassin. 15% crt and 1 more point of strenth/hp is not going to outweigh exp bonuses and additional exp bonuses from the occational lethality kill

I don't know where you get this idea that Assassins get an exp bonus other than the occasional Silencer bonus, but you're wrong. Assassins get an exp bonus if AND ONLY IF they kill with Silencer. Also, personally, I don't think *ANY* of the potential Assassins would be particularly amazing as one... Colm and Joshua lack the supports (only two of their partners give full Crit), and Marisa's shafted in the affinity department.

Joshua's offense isn't going to be much worse no matter what he promotes to, especially by lategame (by than everyone is amazing anyway). The Assassins are grouped with the Rogues, Valkyries, and Bishops for getting an inherent EXP bonus, I think YOU are wrong. The calculations page on this website if I'm correct indicate they get more EXP for a kill. My argument is 15% critical will not suddenly make Joshua start critically consistantly, and if you are relying on criticals to kill enemies with Joshua to begin with instead of planning a back up plan in case he does, you're playing the game wrong.

Bold: I could say the same for relying on Silencer. At any rate, I haven't played FE8 in a long time, and I don't bother with Assassins in FE8 anyhow.

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He also makes a great Assassin. But SM is still better.

And Marisa doesn't make a great Assassin because Marisa doesn't make a great anything.

SM's 15% crt advantage does not outweigh those exp bonus advantages IMO. By the late part of the game, any promoted unit will own almost everything anyway so the very unreliable lethality for enemies with high HP is just as useful as 15% critical. SM's are just inferior heroes IMO. The set up still relies on use of shamshirs/killing edges and supports in order to consistantly critical anyway. 15% by itself is not significant enough.

This SS. Strong enemies are nonexistant. SM's 15 crit plus their high skill, and killing edges(Which they really use much better than other classes) gets a pretty high hit rate going, much more reliable than an assassin's low damage and far less reliable silencer. The swordsmaster critical is much more useful as it has a higher rate. There aren't really many enemies that you would need silencer for. Joshua's level won't be dramatically higher as an assassin, and the boons of a swordsmaster are much more reliable and better.

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This SS. Strong enemies are nonexistant. SM's 15 crit plus their high skill, and killing edges(Which they really use much better than other classes) gets a pretty high hit rate going, much more reliable than an assassin's low damage and far less reliable silencer. The swordsmaster critical is much more useful as it has a higher rate. There aren't really many enemies that you would need silencer for. Joshua's level won't be dramatically higher as an assassin, and the boons of a swordsmaster are much more reliable and better.

Assuming 20/10 with a killing edge SM Joshua has 42 crit due to 24.7 skill. Joshua can get up to 25 more crit with supports. He thus has a total of 82% crit with the SM bonus.

I doubt a critical can even kill an enemy cyclops late game, but with 67 critical an assasin gets, it is probably high enough be reliable without that 15% SM bonus. However, that Exp bonus is always there and it is possible that Joshua can be much higher than 20/10 by endgame. So I doubt it won't be more like 20/15 at least for assasin Joshua. Those extra levels might be useful to gain some extra stats, but honestly before either route's crit score becomes reliable, Joshua is able to probably 1RKO or at least be borderline to that without critically since those hard enemies are rare. Therefore for me, that exp bonus is more important so I can give more exp for other units in my team too. Plus that ability to use lockpicks is always helpful on stages with chests too so...unless I need to steal, I don't have to use either Colm or Rennac who are only average at combat after promoting.

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This SS. Strong enemies are nonexistant. SM's 15 crit plus their high skill, and killing edges(Which they really use much better than other classes) gets a pretty high hit rate going, much more reliable than an assassin's low damage and far less reliable silencer. The swordsmaster critical is much more useful as it has a higher rate. There aren't really many enemies that you would need silencer for. Joshua's level won't be dramatically higher as an assassin, and the boons of a swordsmaster are much more reliable and better.

Assuming 20/10 with a killing edge SM Joshua has 42 crit due to 24.7 skill. Joshua can get up to 25 more crit with supports. He thus has a total of 82% crit with the SM bonus.

I doubt a critical can even kill an enemy cyclops late game, but with 67 critical an assasin gets, it is probably high enough be reliable without that 15% SM bonus. However, that Exp bonus is always there and it is possible that Joshua can be much higher than 20/10 by endgame. So I doubt it won't be more like 20/15 at least for assasin Joshua. Those extra levels might be useful to gain some extra stats, but honestly before either route's crit score becomes reliable, Joshua is able to probably 1RKO or at least be borderline to that without critically since those hard enemies are rare. Therefore for me, that exp bonus is more important so I can give more exp for other units in my team too. Plus that ability to use lockpicks is always helpful on stages with chests too so...unless I need to steal, I don't have to use either Colm or Rennac who are only average at combat after promoting.

Except the swordsmaster can double Cyclops and I'm pretty sure they need 1 critical only. Silencer isn't reliable compared to the critical.

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So, if SM Joshu 4HKOs at 50 CRIT, he has a 75% chance to ORKO. If Assassin Joshua 5+HKOs, he'd have 35 crit. 32% chance of Silencer and a 12.25% chance to double crit. 75%>>>>44.25%. And thanks to the Assassin STR cap, he'll ORKO without crits more reliably as a SM.

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So, if SM Joshu 4HKOs at 50 CRIT, he has a 75% chance to ORKO. If Assassin Joshua 5+HKOs, he'd have 35 crit. 32% chance of Silencer and a 12.25% chance to double crit. 75%>>>>44.25%. And thanks to the Assassin STR cap, he'll ORKO without crits more reliably as a SM.

Why the heck would SM Joshua only need 4HKOs when Assassin Joshua would need 5HKO, I smell a lie.

Sans the 15%, Assassin Joshua has the exact same offense as SM Joshua at equal levels(except for a single point in strength). In fact since when did caps actually matter in this game, when Joshua doesn't even reach 20 strength as a SM (which is the assassin cap) until 20/15, which would never happen in a normal game anyways. However, Assassins always have a bonus when gaining EXP from any kill as well as 80% more EXP in addition for every lethality kill. So if SM Joshua can reach 20/15 as you arbitraily fiat from nowhere, Assassin Joshua can easily reach 20/20 so that as an assassin Joshua would have better stats elsewhere in addtion to tying in strength. The hypothetical situation you present is rediculous: if Joshua as an assassin needs a double crit, Joshua as a SM would need that as well.

Than you ignored that Joshua gains utility from lockpicks and more vision in fogs as well right? Now you actually might have an incentive to use him outside of just killing random enemies.

You'll have to better than a gimmicky hypothetical situation that is impossible to show SM is > Assassin for Joshua.

Fun note: Joshua at base level has 36 critical from his killing edge :facepalm:, I hope your Joshua didn't get as skill "screwed" as the one you presented.

Edited by Brighton
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