Fayt Zelpher Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The only time I've actually used cards for combat purposes is 2-1, I gave the card you get at the house to Heather, so she can damage armors. The thing that bugs me is this. Elincia and Mist can both use imbue, but I don't think that either can use a card. Nasir can use imbue and cards. If their all magic users, shouldn't it be the case that none of them can use imbue or cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The thing that bugs me is this. Elincia and Mist can both use imbue, but I don't think that either can use a card. Nasir can use imbue and cards. If their all magic users, shouldn't it be the case that none of them can use imbue or cards? Some consistency throughout the game would be nice, wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I could guess that they were thinking of making something that would make the Magic stat useful to non-magic-users (since magic users have at least some use for their Strength stat: it enables them to use heavier tomes without a penalty to their speed), but then I remembered that in PoR, there were wind swords, fire lances, and thunder axes that derived their might from the user's Magic rather than Strength. Seriously... Why in Ashera's name didn't they bring those magic weapons back in RD? None of the PoR magic weapons were very strong. The Bolt Axe in particular was almost useless - even if you somehow got an axe user to get a high magic stat, it just didn't do enough damage. The Flame-Lance was also pretty bad, only doing decent damage against Laguz and even then getting outperformed by many physical weapons. The only usable one was the SS, since it could be used to easily take down Wyvern Lords, it was one of the few ranged swords, and Mist and Elincia could do high damage with it. I mean, say that the Bolt Axe was in RD. The highest magic on any axe user is 18, on lolRenning, so he'd have 28 mt with it... and deal single digit damage to most enemies in Endgame. Even against the Dragons, he deals maybe 25-30 damage per hit, which is ok when you take into account he's doing it at 2-range... except that this is the best Bolt Axe user's best matchup. If we give it to the second best user (Kieran), he deals 20-25 damage, and everyone else is struggling to deal more than 20. Most tink the Whites. Maybe the Flame Lance could be decent if the DB got it, but who's gonna use it? Aran's magic sucks, and Fiona's everything sucks. Sonic Sword would be good, because you can give it to Mist/Elincia, but Elincia doesn't really wanna let go of her Amiti, and even Mist isn't great with it (3-P Mist 3HKOes at best and doesn't double). I wouldn't mind seeing more magic weapons, but they need to be considerably more powerful to be worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Cards are one of those things that makes you wonder what the hell IS was thinking. Well, it helps non-transfer Ike to encounter the BK in 3-7 without dying. It helps Ena do some counter-free damage on the Generals in 4-E-1 so that another character that 3HKOs can 2HKO. On EM and NM it helps level herons a bit. On HM they do less than 5 damage untransformed and it's really hard to make them kill anything so even Leanne against part 4 enemies in 4-P gets very little exp. I suppose Paragon, but why should I waste paragon on Leanne? Plus it will only matter if I can arrange for her to kill something. As for PoR, I think Tanith with Flame Lance did reasonable damage to cats and tigers. Possibly more than other weapons would for her. Not sure about a forged silver lance, though. At least it is 2 range so she isn't countered, but if her supports are nearby then the things aren't super accurate anyway. Fiona would love the flame lance in 3-6, and I'd love it on her. Not sure how accurate she'd be, but she 2HKOs all the laguz at 1-2 range (if the thing would still do real fire damage and have 10 mt like in PoR). That could be helpful to use from behind something/some unit. She'd be like Leo in that chapter. Only less accurate. Much less accurate. And without the 90% chance to instablick tigers with wrath (he has around 70% on cats). She'd hover around 50% if you can find something that wouldn't kill her and would get her to <= 30% hp. And she'd be less accurate(so she'd actually be under 50%) so wrath is still better on Leo than her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Ahem. Mist + Runesword was more or less invincible, assuming you could get her to A swords. SS > RS >> FL > BA for me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinata Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Too bad we only get one runesword per PP of PoR. Which reminds me, can silenced enemies wield runeswords in Path of Radiance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) Too bad we only get one runesword per PP of PoR. Which reminds me, can silenced enemies wield runeswords in Path of Radiance? They should be able to still use them. I thought silence only blocks staves and magic. If it does block magic swords, you could theoretically get a second RS from the paladin in chapter 28 (in the same manner as how one gets the Rexaura). Edited January 29, 2010 by Randomly Predictable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) I loved Runesword, but Mist could usually ORKO most things with Sonic Sword anyway. Also I always (when I could) rng abused her def and gave her a draco to get her to 20 def and she has a Jill support and B something else so by the time she gets to 20/10 or so she usually has like 14 + 4 def or something and dodges lots so doesn't really need the runesword much. One playthrough I gave her Resolve, but I think that was my first playthrough, which was EM. Then she was basically invincible even with the Sonic Sword. On my NM playthrough I did fixed mode so she didn't really have super defense, but was still plenty good with Sonic Sword. On HM I abused her def again, so even though I didn't give her Resolve she was still one of the best units for the last few maps. (Also abuse her skill so she has over 20. caps with one or two secret books. Doesn't miss this way) Edited January 29, 2010 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinata Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Too bad she normally only gets two magic swords the entire game. That's why I wondered if runeswords could be blocked with silence. Then there would be 3 in the game: Bertram's, the one from the paladin ch. 28, and the one from the swordmaster in hard mode endgame. If you save those 3 runeswords, she'd be amazing for trial maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Minamimoto Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 I maxed Leanne's magic and she was doing chip damage even in heron form and using the Daemon card iirc. They're pretty much worthless except for the occasions that you would want to attack without being countered, but we have ranged weapons for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Too bad she normally only gets two magic swords the entire game. That's why I wondered if runeswords could be blocked with silence. Then there would be 3 in the game: Bertram's, the one from the paladin ch. 28, and the one from the swordmaster in hard mode endgame. If you save those 3 runeswords, she'd be amazing for trial maps. I'd add Homasa's, but that's unstealable since Volke can't get 21 speed until after the chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinata Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) But you can get his elixir . Kind of unnecessary, why can't enemies trade weapons damnit? Edited January 30, 2010 by Kinata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) The thing that bugs me is this. Elincia and Mist can both use imbue, but I don't think that either can use a card. Nasir can use imbue and cards. If their all magic users, shouldn't it be the case that none of them can use imbue or cards? Actually, anything with a magic cap of over 30 is a magic unit. Therefore, Mist is not a magic unit. :/ (I've tried equipping Imbue, It doesn't work.) Edited January 31, 2010 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Actually, anything with a magic cap of over 30 is a magic unit. Therefore, Mist is not a magic unit. :/ (I've tried equipping Imbue, It doesn't work.) I've tried equipping Imbue on both Ena and Nasir. It works both times. In fact, that's usually who gets the imbue scrolls (or a heron). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I've tried equipping Imbue on both Ena and Nasir. It works both times. In fact, that's usually who gets the imbue scrolls (or a heron). And they have magic caps under 31. What's the problem? I'd assume that the game doesn't consider their transformed magic stat when determining whether or not they can use Imbue. Of course, the above 30 thing may just be observation, rather than programming, since Mist can't and Elincia can. Or if this >30 thing has some merit, then it must consider tier 3 even when they are tier 1 or 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 And they have magic caps under 31. What's the problem? I'd assume that the game doesn't consider their transformed magic stat when determining whether or not they can use Imbue. Of course, the above 30 thing may just be observation, rather than programming, since Mist can't and Elincia can. Or if this >30 thing has some merit, then it must consider tier 3 even when they are tier 1 or 2. Why can Elincia use it but not Mist? Based on Masteries, Elincia is a pegasus knight and Mist is a Paladin. It really doesn't make sense to me (I'm not going to lie and say that it does), but if white dragons attack with their magic stat, I don't see why they're not considered to be magic users for other purposes... On a related note, can anyone definitively say whether or not Elincia or Mist can use cards? I really don't know at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Why can Elincia use it but not Mist? Based on Masteries, Elincia is a pegasus knight and Mist is a Paladin. It really doesn't make sense to me (I'm not going to lie and say that it does), but if white dragons attack with their magic stat, I don't see why they're not considered to be magic users for other purposes... On a related note, can anyone definitively say whether or not Elincia or Mist can use cards? I really don't know at the moment. I know Mist can't use Imbue and Elincia can. As for cards, I don't know. Never bothered. Elincia gave up her massive mag growth from PoR in favour of amazing str and spd growths so I never try to give her cards since she tends to have low 20s against generals with low 20s res. Not helpful. But the stat cap idea works for why Nasir can use it. His cap is 25, right? (not bothering to check.) There you go. Elincia has 30, which is certainly 30 or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I know Mist can't use Imbue and Elincia can. As for cards, I don't know. Never bothered. Elincia gave up her massive mag growth from PoR in favour of amazing str and spd growths so I never try to give her cards since she tends to have low 20s against generals with low 20s res. Not helpful. But the stat cap idea works for why Nasir can use it. His cap is 25, right? (not bothering to check.) There you go. Elincia has 30, which is certainly 30 or less. There's one way to check for sure. Can someone hack FE10 and set Elincia's Mag cap to 31 and see what happens if she tries to equip Imbue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) There's one way to check for sure. Can someone hack FE10 and set Elincia's Mag cap to 31 and see what happens if she tries to equip Imbue? True, that would let you know whether it is based off of magic cap or if they just incode it to the characters for whether or not they can use it. I'm not sure which way is better from a programming standpoint. One bit for each character should be able to show T or F for whether or not they can use Imbue, and that seems pretty efficient. Or they could program it into Imbue to check a character's tier 3 mag cap to determine that. Either way seems pretty simple and like it wouldn't take too much space. Also memory is cheaper now than in the 70s and 80s. (edit: fixed grammar) Edited January 31, 2010 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 True, that would let you know whether it is based of magic cap or if they just incode it to the characters for whether or not they can use it. I'm not sure which way is better from a programming standpoint. One bit for each character should be able to show T or F for whether or not they can use Imbue, and that seems pretty efficient. Or they could program it into Imbue to check a character's tier 3 mag cap to determine that. Either way seems pretty simple and like it wouldn't take too much space. Also memory is cheaper now than in the 70s and 80s. I'll go ask on the hacking board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) And they have magic caps under 31. What's the problem? I'd assume that the game doesn't consider their transformed magic stat when determining whether or not they can use Imbue. Of course, the above 30 thing may just be observation, rather than programming, since Mist can't and Elincia can. Or if this >30 thing has some merit, then it must consider tier 3 even when they are tier 1 or 2. I was wondering if this was what started that other topic... The <31 thing was just an observation. Edited February 1, 2010 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayt Zelpher Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I was wondering if this was what started that other topic... The <31 thing was just an observation. Yes, it was me. But if it's just an observation, we might as well see if it's actually true or just a coincidence. At least I thought it was worth checking out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu Okunato Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 There's one way to check for sure. Can someone hack FE10 and set Elincia's Mag cap to 31 and see what happens if she tries to equip Imbue? It wouldn't do anything. If you are right and it applies to anyone 30 or under. Anyone who doesn't fit there was already programed by the develop with a skill that unables them to have imbue. Changing Elincia's magic cap wouldn't give her this skill automatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 It wouldn't do anything. If you are right and it applies to anyone 30 or under. Anyone who doesn't fit there was already programed by the develop with a skill that unables them to have imbue. Changing Elincia's magic cap wouldn't give her this skill automatically. That was excatly what I was going to say :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I usually give the cards to the herons or Fiona or Lyre :P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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