FE9 Tier List

[CATS]

Top

Titania

Ike

High

Oscar

Boyd

Mordecai

Kieran

Muarim

Rhys

Mist

Tanith

Jill

Giffca/Tibarn/Naesala

Reyson

Upper Middle

Volke

Stefan

Gatrie

Astrid

Makalov

Marcia

Lethe

Shinon

Lower Middle

Enasir

Tauroneo

Brom

Geoffrey

Nephenee

Ranulf

Ulki

Janaff

Haar

Zihark

Calill

Low

Largo

Devdan

Ilyana

Elincia

Soren

Sothe

Tormod

Garbage

Bastian

Lucia

Mia

Rolf

--This list assumes that there is room for player error (tactically bad decisions resulting in death, ideal supports less viable, not always using the perfect team or strategy, etc.)

--Hard Mode only

--Efficiency as related to turn count

--Unit absence is considered over unit presence; in other words, the question is “which unit’s absence would hurt turn count more?” not “which unit’s presence benefits turn count more?” So, in Unit A vs. Unit B, Unit A being in play means Unit B isn’t; both can’t be on the team.

--This list does not assume to be superior to other tier lists or more correct than other tier lists with differing conditions.

Clarifications on the first condition:

--Player has access only to the information on the game disc (and the manual, if anyone even knows what is actually contained in it), i.e. he does not have access to information sites such as Serenes, but he will not ignore what limited information he does have.

--Player has completed the game before and has a reasonable knowledge of it, though not excessively so. It is not his first time through.

This list was discussed and debated at length over an instant-messaging chatroom system. It was debated primarily by Solid and Reikken, with secondary opinions provided by other debaters such as myself, smash fanatic, and Paperblade. At this point it is believed to be reasonably accurate, and therefore we are now posting it and opening it up to general discussion. Note that the conditions of the list differ from the given conditions of previous lists, though not excessively so.

I am posting the list because I was elected by a committee of five other debaters in a chatroom to be the most qualified person to run and control the tier list.

Feel free to commence discussion.

Edited March 17, 2010 by CATS

[Crimson_Edge]

I'm still sort of unconvinced about Mia > Rolf. I mean, what does Mia offer except having horrible durability and bleah offense during the earlygame? She dies way too easily and can't even damage stuff like Knights (which are actually around in earlygame); Rolf, meanwhile, has 2 range and can get some potshots in his forced Chapter 9 deployment. That's better than anything Mia can do, in my opinion.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Crimson_Edge

[Interceptor]

--This list assumes maximal room for player error (tactically bad decisions resulting in death, ideal supports less viable, not always using the perfect team or strategy, etc.)

There are an almost infinite number of ways to play terribly in this game, such that they drown out the good ones by sheer numbers. Where do you draw the dividing line?

[Reikken]

No hard lines are drawn, sir. We're making an effort to consider as many reasonable ways as possible.

[Interceptor]

No hard lines are drawn, sir. We're making an effort to consider as many reasonable ways as possible.

It seems as though you accidentally answered my question, which is just as well. So then, what is/are the requirement(s) for something to be considered "reasonable"?

[Mekkah]

--Unit absence is considered over unit presence; in other words, the question is “which unit’s absence would hurt turn count more?”

So does that mean you also take into account character's inventories upon recruitment, since you're assuming the units do not exist at all?

[Crimson_Edge]

So does that mean you also take into account character's inventories upon recruitment, since you're assuming the units do not exist at all?

Right, clarification here.

No, it simply means that in determining which is the better of Rolf vs. Mia, you are either using Rolf or you are using Mia; you're not using both. This says nothing about their inventories since those can simply be traded away and the unit can be benched. It's not that the units don't exist--it's simply that they aren't used. I guess special cases could be something like Marcia, in which case you might miss recruiting her and thus miss her inventory.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Crimson_Edge

[-Cynthia-]

OK, I'll attempt to discuss the huge differences between this list and the current one.

Ike is the best unit in the game only if we include seizing/recruiting, otherwise he's clearly worse than Titania and some others in High. However, since we usually don't include these factors I find this questionable. Are we including Ashnard as well?

Giffca/Tibarn/Naesala contribute for like 1/2 a chapter. They reduce overall turncount by like 3 turns max. Obviously a lot of the units below them affect turncount a lot more than they do.

Shinon in Upper Middle must be some sort of joke. He's decent earlygame (though he can't counter or ORKO much so he's no Titania), but then he isn't around for a very long time and his terrible bases make him a terible unit when he comes back.

Base Shinon (Steel Bow)

32 HP 18 Atk 13 AS 9 Def

Base Devdan (Steel Lance)

36 HP 24 Atk 13 AS 11 Def

Devdan (who is Lower Mid apparently) beats Shinon across the board. Not like Devdan's going to be at base anyway, since he's had ~5 chapters before Shinon shows up. Shinon might have 1 level from the ealrygame chapters.

Why are Ena and Nasir so high? Low Mov, low Atk, transform issues etc. How are they better than say, Geoffrey? They can hurt Ashnard I guess, but he stomps them so hard they're not much use anyway.

I'm going to address more general issues from here on:

Too much emphasis in durability here. I notice that the most durable units (Tauroneo, Gatrie, Mordecai, Ulki, Janaff etc.) are ovrrated as a whole. This seems to ignore the fact that unit durability in general is really high. This debate shows how units only die in an extremely large amount of rounds at very low hit rates. Granted, these are later game comparisons where unit durability is overall better, but once supporta kick in unit durability skyrockets.

Does "maximal room for player error" involve not knowing how to use BEXP? The bias against somewhat underleveled units here is pretty enormous. We give Soren a few levels of BEXP and a Master Seal, now he can heal as well as Rhys and ORKO things as well. How is this a 3 tier gap?

I think trying to make a tier list for "maximum error" as well as including efficiency is just a wreck. For example, I can argue Rhys is a completely useless unit. The player doesn't know enough to wall off priests, thus they will leave Rhys exposed, he dies Ch.2 and contributes nothing whatsoever to efficiency. Frankly I guess you could also argue that they player is too dumb to know how to use heal staves or not know how to move units etc. etc.

Edited February 21, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Deliriyum]

Soren>Ilyana. Soren's strength loss is obsolete due to his speed advantage, and he always had the option of using wind so he will be faster than Ilyana. I could probably elaborate more unless there is some thing that I am missing other than thunder>wind

[Reikken]

I'm still sort of unconvinced about Mia > Rolf. I mean, what does Mia offer except having horrible durability and bleah offense during the earlygame? She dies way too easily and can't even damage stuff like Knights (which are actually around in earlygame); Rolf, meanwhile, has 2 range and can get some potshots in his forced Chapter 9 deployment. That's better than anything Mia can do, in my opinion.

Mia is bad, yes, but not that bad. She has her own forced chapter too. Rolf still has to get close, and chapter 9 is mostly pretty open, so it's hard or inconvenient to have him protected. He won't take a counterattack, but if there are any enemies left nearby come enemy phase, he'll likely be getting hit anyway, and not counterattacking, and drawing that enemy further back to his position. And the damage he does is pathetic. At least Mia doubles, and if there aren't any enemies left nearby at enemy phase, then she's no worse off than Rolf, only she's done more damage. Even if she gets killed, Vantage means she at least gets off yet another hit before dying. Then against mages, she does quite a lot of damage, and Rolf can't avoid taking a counterattack.

So Mia almost never deprives you of an enemy phase counter, and she does more damage when she does attack. And thus is better than Rolf.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Jill/Marcia to top tier. Flight cuts off a ridiculous amount of turns.

EDIT: Wait for it...

Edited February 21, 2010 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Reikken]

It seems as though you accidentally answered my question, which is just as well. So then, what is/are the requirement(s) for something to be considered "reasonable"?

An action made by a player who... knows the basic game mechanics and has some common sense, but may not know anything else like about growth rates, reinforcements, etc. or have planned ahead very well, and may make errors that can be overlooked.

[Crimson_Edge]

I'll address some of these issues for now.

Ike is the best unit in the game only if we include seizing/recruiting, otherwise he's clearly worse than Titania and some others in High. However, since we usually don't include these factors I find this questionable. Are we including Ashnard as well?

Seizing and recruiting have nothing to do with it; Ike is the best unit in the game simply because he doesn’t consume a unit slot. This is a massive advantage that, coupled with his already enormous stats, makes him better than everyone by a tier except Titania (who might be arguable, since her absence affects the earlygame greatly). Suppose I have a choice between using Oscar who uses a unit slot and Ike who does not. The team with Ike can add another attacker, such as, suppose, Nephenee. The team with Oscar cannot add any additional units because Oscar is replacing someone. So now in battle, the worst-case scenario is that Ike and Nephenee both attack an enemy and one-round it, and Oscar one-rounds something—the best-case scenario is that Ike and Nephenee both one-round an enemy, and Oscar one-rounds something. Clearly the part of the team with Ike and Nephenee, even when they fail to do what Oscar can do combined together, is at the very least no worse off and at the very best twice as good as the part of the team with just Oscar. And in reality the gap is even wider since Ike’s stats are very good.

It’s simple really. Ike’s value is 100% of his value; Oscar’s value is 100% - opportunity cost of losing another good unit (who can perhaps be put at 90% value). Ike beats everyone clearly except possibly Titania.

Shinon in Upper Middle must be some sort of joke. He's decent earlygame (though he can't counter or ORKO much so he's no Titania), but then he isn't around for a very long time and his terrible bases make him a terible unit when he comes back.

The problem is that Shinon's absence in certain earlygame chapters (4 comes to mind) hurts the team more than Devdan's absence ever will. Devdan can simply be replaced by any arbitrarily good unit--suppose, Largo--and the team loses out on little. Shinon not being used affects the team far more than any of the units below him not being used.

Does "maximal room for player error" involve not knowing how to use BEXP? The bias against somewhat underleveled units here is pretty enormous. We give Soren a few levels of BEXP and a Master Seal, now he can heal as well as Rhys and ORKO things as well. How is this a 3 tier gap?

Soren's problem is actually being very hard to train in the earlygame; BEXP and Master Seal are resources. Rhys needs to consume no resources in order to get good, and if you give him the same BEXP you gave Soren he will in fact be better; and Rhys has earlygame healing in addition to this--remove Rhys and your earlygame becomes substantially harder (you have to rely on Vulneraries in Chapter 6, for example, which adds an extreme amount of fail to your team's performance).

Too much emphasis in durability here. I notice that the most durable units (Tauroneo, Gatrie, Mordecai, Ulki, Janaff etc.) are ovrrated as a whole. This seems to ignore the fact that unit durability in general is really high. This debate shows how units only die in an extremely large amount of rounds at very low hit rates. Granted, these are later game comparisons where unit durability is overall better, but once supporta kick in unit durability skyrockets.

It's not just durability; you'll notice that most of those units also offer other advantages, such as being error-free (Tauroneo and Mordecai, for example, since they have huge starting levels). Enormous durability is of course important and helps their cases. In Mordecai's and Gatrie's cases, those two units being absent makes some of their chapters substantially harder. What does Kieran ever provide over every other unit in the game that beats out Mordecai's Smite in Chapter 10? Just as an example--that's without even considering Mordecai's other advantages such as the best in-game stats when transformed right after he joins (he beats out Titania solidly).

And sure units can die. If the player makes one mistake (not a giant mistake), Marcia can be placed in front of a bow user and suffer death; this possibility never exists with Tauroneo or Mordecai. This is clearly an advantage for those units, and not a slight one. Additionally, the average player won't always have ideal support set-ups (or even be able to play units in a way so as to always have bonuses in play), so durability matters more than usual. Obviously the player is not perfect. We aren't assuming that the player cannot play the game--we are merely accounting for the possibility of errors.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

So do resets exist in this tier list?

[Crimson_Edge]

So do resets exist in this tier list?

I’m skeptical about resets ever being permissible in any sort of tier list or debate environment, simply because if allowed, the player can simply say “I will restart all my chapters until my units get perfect level-ups” and then statistical comparisons between units become relatively meaningless. Theoretically, you can thus give Mia perfect stats by restarting every chapter as many times as possible until her level-ups approach perfection. This doesn’t fly. At the very least resets need to be put at a minimum, but considering that this yields a contradiction, I’m personally against them entirely (unless Ike dies, which forces a reset).

[Reikken]

Giffca/Tibarn/Naesala contribute for like 1/2 a chapter. They reduce overall turncount by like 3 turns max. Obviously a lot of the units below them affect turncount a lot more than they do.

And it's a solid, unreplaceable, undeniable reduction in turn count. If you don't use them, it will take you longer than if you do. Units below high tier don't offer anything like that. I could see Reyson, or even Volke or Stefan being arguable, but not for like Makalov.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

And it's a solid, unreplaceable, undeniable reduction in turn count. If you don't use them, it will take you longer than if you do. Units below high tier don't offer anything like that. I could see Reyson, or even Volke or Stefan being arguable, but not for like Makalov.

Not exactly. Resolve Ike has a 40% chance of activating Aether in just one hit, which would leave Ashnard with 1 hp, and so there is a decent chance the royals won't do anything. At the very least, Marcia should be > them from Chapter 15 alone.

[Life]

I'm really not convinced that Ike > Titania.

Ike might always be guaranteed a spot but it doesn't mean that his performance is necessarily up to par. He's killing everything with just a glance in the last 2 chapters but starts out the early game with low avoid (even against axes, not to mention that 4~6 are lance heavy) and meh offense and defense (5 Str even though a 50 GR isn't fantastic and 5 Def with a 40 GR). Assuming a case that we couldn't field him (even though we obviously can), does he make a significant effort to the turn count following Chapter 7? Not much.

Titania has the best earlygame by a country mile. She can shave off turns left and right and still not hog all of the experience in each chapter. Besides, saving turns in the earlygame leads to more BExp to abuse. And because she's basically an Oifey, she doesn't have a terrible endgame, it's just slightly weaker than the rest of the cavs.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Cap'n Crunch

[Crimson_Edge]

Mia is bad, yes, but not that bad. She has her own forced chapter too. Rolf still has to get close, and chapter 9 is mostly pretty open, so it's hard or inconvenient to have him protected. He won't take a counterattack, but if there are any enemies left nearby come enemy phase, he'll likely be getting hit anyway, and not counterattacking, and drawing that enemy further back to his position. And the damage he does is pathetic. At least Mia doubles, and if there aren't any enemies left nearby at enemy phase, then she's no worse off than Rolf, only she's done more damage. Even if she gets killed, Vantage means she at least gets off yet another hit before dying. Then against mages, she does quite a lot of damage, and Rolf can't avoid taking a counterattack.

So Mia almost never deprives you of an enemy phase counter, and she does more damage when she does attack. And thus is better than Rolf.

You get 50 BEXP for not using Mia in Chapter 8 (which is full of Knights and Move-Again Cavs that she shouldn’t be facing anyway). The incentive for not using Mia is huge for this chapter, greater than the incentive for not using Rolf ever is. +50 BEXP > either one. Plus, Mia hitting a Mage also takes a counterattack—the difference is that if both are in range, the Mage goes for Mia but not for Rolf (if Rolf is positioned correctly). And the damage Mia does is often ridiculously low anyway, so the difference is little.

I guess what she does in her joining chapter is more significant than what Rolf does in his thanks to Vantage, so I’ll let this go.

[-Cynthia-]

It’s simple really. Ike’s value is 100% of his value; Oscar’s value is 100% - opportunity cost of losing another good unit (who can perhaps be put at 90% value). Ike beats everyone clearly except possibly Titania.

This assumes that 100% of Ike's value > 90% of Oscar's value which is quite an assumption, I would say Oscar's 10% better than Ike, certianly Titania is. Oscar/Titania/Boyd don't have any reductions to their values in earlygame chapters anyway.

The problem is that Shinon's absence in certain earlygame chapters (4 comes to mind) hurts the team more than Devdan's absence ever will. Devdan can simply be replaced by any arbitrarily good unit--suppose, Largo--and the team loses out on little.

Shinon not being used affects the team far more than any of the units below him not being used.

Shinon doesn't actually help that much in 4 anyway, since he can only kill one unit per turn (well maybe a few archers on the enemy phase if you position it right). Titania's the only one who actually helps complete this chapter in a timely fashion, since she moves the furthest and can kill all the enemies the fastest with almost no risk.

Soren's problem is actually being very hard to train in the earlygame; BEXP and Master Seal are resources. Rhys needs to consume no resources in order to get good, and if you give him the same BEXP you gave Soren he will in fact be better; and Rhys has earlygame healing in addition to this--remove Rhys and your earlygame becomes substantially harder (you have to rely on Vulneraries in Chapter 6, for example, which adds an extreme amount of fail to your team's performance).

Rhys's healing does make earlygame easier...but if we're so error prone we can't keep him from dying right (if we can't protect Marcia from bows, we sure as hell can't protect Rhys from more than one enemy).

Rhys better than Soren?

10/1 Rhys(Light)

25 HP 1 Str 17 Atk 5 AS 3.5 Def

10/1 Soren (Fire)

26 HP 2 Str 16 Atk 13 AS 5 Def

We can forge a tome for Rhys so he has less AS loss, though we can do the same for Soren (and it's cheaper). Rhys can't even get Light tomes until Ch13 anyway, so if we would Seal them as soon as we could Rhys would have no offense for a while.

"But Rhys has a level lead!" He could, though Soren gains more from chipping than Rhys does from healing. I also didn't include Soren's Ike support, so that would help his stats as well.

It's not just durability; you'll notice that most of those units also offer other advantages, such as being error-free (Tauroneo and Mordecai, for example, since they have huge starting levels). Enormous durability is of course important and helps their cases. In Mordecai's and Gatrie's cases, those two units being absent makes some of their chapters substantially harder. What does Kieran ever provide over every other unit in the game that beats out Mordecai's Smite in Chapter 10? Just as an example--that's without even considering Mordecai's other advantages such as the best in-game stats when transformed right after he joins (he beats out Titania solidly).

Mordecai takes several turns to transform though, and untransformed Mordecai is not very useful (he can Smite, but with his low untransformed Mov that's not helping much anyway). Smiting can be handy, but can often be replaced by any two unmounted units, which makes it less special.

He has worse stats than Titania actually, only 11 AS at base, which means he's going to drop out of doubling range pretty quickly.

And sure units can die. If the player makes one mistake (not a giant mistake), Marcia can be placed in front of a bow user and suffer death; this possibility never exists with Tauroneo or Mordecai. This is clearly an advantage for those units, and not a slight one. Additionally, the average player won't always have ideal support set-ups (or even be able to play units in a way so as to always have bonuses in play), so durability matters more than usual. Obviously the player is not perfect. We aren't assuming that the player cannot play the game--we are merely accounting for the possibility of errors.

Then why are Rhys and Mist so high? They are very prone to errors, since they also get 2RKOd. If the player is so error-prone they cannot protect Marcia from bows, they shouldn't be able to protect Rhys and Mist either.

It's not just Rhys and Mist either. If we assume the player is too stupid to know how to use BEXP, Makalov and Astrid should be lower as well, since we have to be smart enough to put the KW on them and BEXP them for them not to be useless.

Knowing you're partially behind this list makes this thread make more sense, though I'm a little surprised at Reikken. His original list on here wasn't nearly this bad.

Edited February 21, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Narga_Rocks]

And it's a solid, unreplaceable, undeniable reduction in turn count. If you don't use them, it will take you longer than if you do. Units below high tier don't offer anything like that. I could see Reyson, or even Volke or Stefan being arguable, but not for like Makalov.

But they show up at the bottom when you already likely have Ashnard surrounded or just Ike present. Really, they'll be lucky to get there before Ashnard is near death. At best, they save one turn. More than 50% of the time, Ike kills Ashnard before they get there because of Aether.

@weapons: Sorry to say, but Resolve + Aether takes up too much capacity. Others argue Resolve + Wrath, but really I can't imagine Ike does more with it on one enemy than others like Zihark or Mia could do with it throughout the whole game.

Of course, their list seems like it could argue the player didn't give Aether to Ike and instead gave a mastery to all the mages or something silly like that, so maybe the royals could actually shave off 2 turns instead of just 0 or 1. 3 seems unlikely. You could surround Ashnard and then use the Knight Ring to get Reyson to vigor Nasir/Ena and Ike each turn. 2 attacks each rather than just the 2 attacks Ike gets from Player Phase + Enemy Phase (if Ash is surrounded he'll attack a unit that can't damage him). This also lets you use Ike's supports, but they seem to assume the player is a bad strategist that can't use supports effectively. Or just have a unit rescue Reyson and have another take + drop. Don't even need the unit to have canto. I think the player is supposed to be assumed to have basic mechanical skills.

Also, if you are punishing Marcia for bow weakness, Rhys needs to sink like a stone.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Reikken]

Yes, Titania pwns everyone by miles early on. If you're only looking at those, then of course you won't see Ike > Titania. But consider Ike after those first chapters. He no longer sucks, and he comes with no opportunity cost, as explained above. Then by the time he promotes, he's almost as good as she is, but he still comes for free, while Titania comes at the cost of not using someone else. He is now much better than she is. And then that only continues to increase for the rest of this entire second half of the game. The last two chapters are not to be ignored either. There, not only is he roflstomping everyone, including Titania, but also, he still comes at no cost. That alone counters quite a bit of Titania's early wins.

Not exactly. Resolve Ike has a 40% chance of activating Aether in just one hit, which would leave Ashnard with 1 hp, and so there is a decent chance the royals won't do anything. At the very least, Marcia should be > them from Chapter 15 alone.

Resolve+Aether is an impossible combination.

In the absence of Marcia for ch 15, you still have Jill. Also, more difficult tactics (such as going rambo with a frail peg knight) have less weight for reasons mentioned.

oh, I missed one

Why are Ena and Nasir so high? Low Mov, low Atk, transform issues etc. How are they better than say, Geoffrey? They can hurt Ashnard I guess, but he stomps them so hard they're not much use anyway.

Mostly because they are forced in the last two chapters, and they're hard to kill and do decent damage and can help with Ashnard.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Reikken

[Crimson_Edge]

This assumes that 100% of Ike's value > 90% of Oscar's value which is quite an assumption, I would say Oscar's 10% better than Ike, certianly Titania is. Oscar/Titania/Boyd don't have any reductions to their values in earlygame chapters anyway.

I'm afraid you did not read.

I didn't say Oscar has 90% value--I said the opportunity cost of using Oscar is 90%. For example, suppose that using Oscar means not using Nephenee, and Nephenee is 90% as good as Oscar is (you can make it less; it does not matter). Thus, Oscar is 100 - 90 = 10% of his real value. Ike is 100 - 0 = 100% of his real value. 100% of Ike's value > 10% of Oscar's value. Opportunity costs matter. Will respond to the rest later.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@weapons: Sorry to say, but Resolve + Aether takes up too much capacity. Others argue Resolve + Wrath, but really I can't imagine Ike does more with it on one enemy than others like Zihark or Mia could do with it throughout the whole game.

SCREW CAPACITY.

Oh well, Resolve + Wrath probably actually has a higher chance of activating, since Ike has like, 60 crit, and 4 HKO's Ashnard while doubling. Though if the most efficient strategies are not necessarily used, that opens the door for a lot of stuff...

On second thought, seeing as the royals have no 2-range (except Naesala, but he can't damage Ashnard anyway), they are actually slowing you down because then you lose an enemy phase for which to damage Ashnard.

EDIT:

In the absence of Marcia for ch 15, you still have Jill. Also, more difficult tactics (such as going rambo with a frail peg knight) have less weight for reasons mentioned.

Marcia + Jill certainly moves faster than either alone.

Edited February 21, 2010 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Narga_Rocks]

It isn't like Ike has no opportunity cost, though. Exp on Ike is exp that could have gone elsewhere. Sure, exp on Ike is a good idea because you probably want Nasir and it helps a bunch on Ashnard, but the player isn't supposed to know everything. What if they decide not to raise Ike since they don't like mono-sword users and they assume they don't need him for more than seizing? Clearly, Ike has the opportunity cost of the exp it takes to raise him. If you don't use Ike, or at least don't give him too much exp, your other units have a higher level. Sure, you can't replace Ike with an extra character, but he's hardly getting 100% of his exp. Then consider that the player doesn't necessarily want to use max deployment. If you are using "This list assumes maximal room for player error (tactically bad decisions resulting in death, ideal supports less viable, not always using the perfect team or strategy, etc.)" then isn't it logical to assume that the player may use any team size? You can't give more weight to the max team size than, say, max - 1 and max - 2. If a player wants to use a team of size 9, then they can use 8 + Ike, or they can just use 9 units that aren't Ike, since most chapters have more deployment slots than 9.

The only way to justify saying Ike has no opportunity cost for deployment is to assume that the player must use maximum deployment slots. And even then he still has the opportunity cost of the exp he uses.

"It was debated primarily by Solid and Reikken, with secondary opinions provided by other debaters such as myself, smash fanatic, and Paperblade. At this point it is believed to be reasonably accurate, and therefore we are now posting it and opening it up to general discussion."

Yeah, that helps explain Mia's position. They must love this.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Narga_Rocks