FE9 Tier List

[Snowy_One]

Aye. Though I still think it's a valid question. After all, using Rolf as an example, the player may notice that a team with a BEXP maxed Rolf who uses a forge is simply better than a team with a Rolf who wasn't Bexp maxed or using a forge (the fact that any team with any non Rhys/Mist unit that's been Bexp maxed is gonna have that unit curbstomp at that point in the game). While it's true that he may see that it's because Rolf is getting treated unfairly well and decide it is worth it to try and give other units a shot, it's also true that he may see the reason as why Rolf is doing badly is because he wasn't favored and argue that, when given all that Bexp, he deals a lot of damage during the player phase and doesn't even have to take a counter-attack (something even Titania has to do unless she gets lucky/uses a forge). I would assume we don't even know how the player values the attributes of the units. Sure, we may be able to impose that bows suck because they lack a counter, but a normal player may not see it that way. All he's seeing is Rolf being able to kill pretty much anything come player phase without even giving his opponent a chance to counter and, hey, as a added bonus, when he promotes he starts 1HKO'ing with a CRITICAL! A CRITICAL THAT HITS THE ENEMY WEAKPOINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE! Not to mention that he gets a bonus on the fliers; of which the Ravens are ****ing annoying... and Rolf gets a bonus against them!

Meanwhile, a unit like Kieran, who is way better than Rolf overall, may be dumped on the sidelines. After all, the player already has two calvary units, one of which is the OMGWTF Titania, and the other is Oscar who, while not as astounding, is still rather good (Marcia discounted because she has a flying pony). Plus, Kieran uses axes and axes have the worst hit out of the weapons! He wants to ensure that he always hits on his attacks, and axes are bleh for that.

Course, we know better. We've done the research and know that Kieran > Rolf. However, if we're assuming the player is... less than informed... than we must also be willing to accept that he will value things differently than how we who spend days reading tier lists will. He may value a 'balanced' team over a paladin-heavy one simply because having a team with a variety of classes is usually more adaptable than one with a over-abundance of one. He may value stats less because any unit can get stats... but he sees only so many abilities! So Nephenee might drop because she isn't overly impressive stat-wise and may even be seen as weak to him, or she may rise because she has wrath and wrath makes every other attack Crit (ignoring that she only gets it when below 50% health).

[Anouleth]

Just out of curiosity, this tier list assumes that there is room for 'player error'. Does this include making favoritism choices/dumping a load of Bexp on a character/giving them a 'unfair' amount of forges as well? Cause I can certainly see a player ignoring the super-power Titania if they're genre-savvy enough to expect her to be a jeigan and instead dump a load of Bexp/weapons on Rolf, who seems like **** but may have good growth-rates. Doubly so since Rolf is the only bow-user in the early game once Shinon leaves and I would most certainly assume that they would expect him to grow up to kick ass like their previous sniper (no denying Shinon is very useful in the early game, even if he doesn't 100% 1HKO) or even if not, level him up to have access to his weapon-type just in case the need for a bow arises?

Ambiguities like this are part of the reason why this tier list hasn't really gone anywhere or seen any serious discussion.

[Narga_Rocks]

Ambiguities like this are part of the reason why this tier list hasn't really gone anywhere or seen any serious discussion.

I think the original idea had some sort of "averaging out" among the possible types of player and weighted more heavily towards the undefined "average", but honestly how can you even do that? And how can you tier if anything I say can be countered by some stupid playstyle and thus they cancel each other out?

[Interceptor]

The only way that I can see to pull it off is through mass-denial of the fatal flaws, perhaps by way of discussing it amongst people with similar viewpoints. The members of the cabal in the OP are probably close enough philosophy-wise to each other that it doesn't matter. But every person that you add to the discussion, increases the chances that someone will touch the third rail, which is why the concept probably doesn't work on Serenes as a whole.

[Snowy_One]

If they were all so close in philosophy as to be capable of ignoring a flaw like that, then why did they even post it? They're not going to change anything without one of their own members deciding it needs validation, so any post we make is essentially noise to them. They probably aren't even seeking to test it to see how well it stands up to scrutiny because the only arguments that will hold any weight are the ones they approve of. This isn't a tier list, it's elitism distilled into topic form that's using the hide of a tier list like a hunter uses the skin of a animal to hide.

I can't even make sense of what standards they have set. Gatrie above Astrid and Makalov? The hawks above Zihark and Soren? It's almost as if they took a FE9 and FE10 tier list, erased which game was which, then mashed them together indiscriminately; then shot Mia down for the hell of it. It's a sane theory, but it seems more sane than any other theory so far.

[Anouleth]

Well, I'm afraid to say that this list has Smashfanatic's scent all over it - the placing of Enasir is a dead giveaway. And also Mia that low <_< , although in fairness Smash hasn't been too bad with Mia lately:

He posted this list a couple of weeks back on GFAQs. I pop up to argue Tormod > Ilyana, but no other changes are made.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Cause I can certainly see a player ignoring the super-power Titania if they're genre-savvy enough to expect her to be a jeigan and instead dump a load of Bexp/weapons on Rolf, who seems like **** but may have good growth-rates.

Honestly, I don't blame the person for their opinions on Titania because personally I think Titania is overrated. Yes she is amazing earlygame but once chapter 16-17 starts rolling around you'll have units such as Oscar, Boyd, and possibly Jill/Marcia promoted and some of your un-promoted units should be nearing promotion and are all very close to surpassing or have already surpassed Titania one way or another even with the 3-4 levels she gains. And it really doesn't get any better from there. Sure, Titania is still pretty good and can hold off her own later on in the game and I'd go as far as to say at least she has a horse for canto but you really don't need that many mounted units later on if we're already using units such as Oscar, Kieran, Astrid, Marcia, Jill. I personally use Titania up until Chapter 17 and then bench her for the rest of the game.

As for Rolf though, that's just plain stupidity. Even if we were to make him good with favoritism he never has a decent enemy phase due to being locked to 2-range forever.

[Narga_Rocks]

Honestly, I don't blame the person for their opinions on Titania because personally I think Titania is overrated. Yes she is amazing earlygame but once chapter 16-17 starts rolling around you'll have units such as Oscar, Boyd, and possibly Jill/Marcia promoted and some of your un-promoted units should be nearing promotion and are all very close to surpassing or have already surpassed Titania one way or another even with the 3-4 levels she gains. And it really doesn't get any better from there. Sure, Titania is still pretty good and can hold off her own later on in the game and I'd go as far as to say at least she has a horse for canto but you really don't need that many mounted units later on if we're already using units such as Oscar, Kieran, Astrid, Marcia, Jill. I personally use Titania up until Chapter 17 and then bench her for the rest of the game.

As for Rolf though, that's just plain stupidity. Even if we were to make him good with favoritism he never has a decent enemy phase due to being locked to 2-range forever.

Well, you have her severely underleveled in chapter 17 and you still think she's about as good (close anyway) as any other unit. That means she's the best for over half the game (by a lot at times) and then still decent for a while. How is that not the best unit in the game? No other unit will be the best for half the game and when those other units become great there are always going to be other units that are almost as good. Titania has no competition for the title for half the game.

Anyway, one of the main reasons for Titania being so high is turncounts. If you don't care about low turncounts then I can sort of understand your opinion on her. But then we wouldn't be arguing under the same conditions and your opinion would not be relevant to this tier list. If you are caring, then next time you play, try letting Titania kill bosses (most of them, anyway, for the first 10 or so chapters). It's faster and it'll make her actually level. The exp increase for KOing a boss I think is static so you aren't even "losing exp", or at least not much. And your other units get more than enough exp from enemies + bexp anyway. Titania should never be just level 5 in chapter 17. I mean, what the hell????? I think Interceptor had her at level 8 or something in chapter 8. Maybe a bit lower. Anyway, the point is he had all his units doing well so it's not like they were underleveled. As long as you are actually keeping her levels going and aren't sandbagging her level in comparison to your other units you'll see she lasts quite fine.

Honestly, why do people make arguments like "I never let unit A get much exp so unit B is always better than unit A by about chapter x therefore unit A isn't as good as everyone says (s)he is". How is that even remotely logical?

Edited May 5, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Oh, I remember when people on GFAQs tried to argue that Titania shouldn't be used in earlygame because she took away EXP, therefore her earlygame contributions could be dismissed, and I was all like 'well no shit, of course she sucks when you don't use her'.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Oh, I remember when people on GFAQs tried to argue that Titania shouldn't be used in earlygame because she took away EXP.

Okay, now that's a retarded argument. I don't know though, I seem to do just fine with giving Boyd/Oscar boss-kills on those chapters. I mean, I still clear most chapters within like 4-7 turns on HM which isn't too shabby.

[Interceptor]

You can do just fine, but it's still better to give the boss kills to Titania. First off, she's better at taking them in the first place, but secondly you're going to get the same boss bonus no matter who does it, so you might as well give it to the unit that costs you almost twice as much BEXP as normal to get to a particular level of effectiveness.

[Narga_Rocks]

Okay, now that's a retarded argument. I don't know though, I seem to do just fine with giving Boyd/Oscar boss-kills on those chapters. I mean, I still clear most chapters within like 4-7 turns on HM which isn't too shabby.

Even if you could clear the chapter in the exact same number of turns, they get more than enough exp off other enemies and their bexp doesn't even cost much. It's still better to give the KO to Titania simply because your other units aren't going to turn into gods based off the boss kills since they'll either be gods without the BKs anyway or the BKs won't turn them into gods. Titania obviously can't last forever off her bases alone but her growths are quite good. (Also, the boss bonus on Titania means a lot more than on anyone else as far as equivalent cost in bexp is concerned.) Compare level 9 Titania to level 20/1 Oscar. Notice that she wins or ties nearly every stat (a small loss in def).

Level 12 Titania to 20/5 Oscar (3 for her, 4 for him) and now he has a small str win (and they could easily have the same str at this point anyway) and he has a slightly bigger def win, but she actually has a bigger hp win and a bigger lck and res win and she is still winning skill and spd anyway.

Aside from Oscar's supports, she's still > Oscar at this point and it could be like chapter 20 or something. Even level 11 Titania to 20/5 Oscar isn't going to suddenly lose by much. And she still wins hp, skl, spd, lck, res. Also, by now she probably has A Axes for silver (when they appear). I doubt Oscar will be getting to A axes any time soon. Or you could give her the brave axe or something. You've got, what, Kieran and Haar that can use it? Jill eventually and maybe Astrid.

edit: I lose this round, Holmes.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Crimson_Edge]

My argument is that because the list's rules state that “which unit’s absence would hurt turn count more?” is being considered, if Ike was truly "absent" then he wouldn't be taking up that extra slot and Oscar's team now has Oscar + 9. This obviously can't actually be done, as you can't actually remove Ike.

I believe the rules clarify this point; "absence" simmply means that the use of the two units are mutually exclusive.

For example, in Matthew vs. Ninian in FE7, if unt presence is considered, Ninian > Matthew is arguable. But if unit absence is considered, Matthew > Ninian is obvious. Without using Matthew at all, you don't S-Rank Funds. I personally think this makes a lot more sense.

[Snowy_One]

Just to clarify: Boss EXP is actually two separate exp values combined. 30 base EXP (40 in easy mode) + the exp you would have gotten if the enemy was a normal enemy (I think there is a boosted 5 EXP in easy mode for this as well) + the mode bonus (30 for easy, 20 for normal, 15 for hard).

So for Titania to kill, say, the first bandit boss on hard, the calculation would go like this. (3 + [-16] + 15 + 30 + 0) x 1 = 32 EXP.

Conversely, for, say, a base-level Boyd to do the same: (12 + [3] + 15 + 30 + 0s) x 1 = 60 EXP. It is almost double the EXP.

If it was a level 5 non-boss, it would be like this.

Boyd: (12 + [3] + 15 + 0 + 0s) x 1 = 30 EXP.

Titania: (3 + [-16] + 15 + 0 + 0) x 1 = 2 EXP.

Also, the argument for forgoing Titania in the early game works like this. Titania is already really powerful. So power that, in fact, having her level up is meaningless because she won't actually perform any better. However, the EXP that Titania got could have gone to lower-leveled units. These units actually would perform better if they got the kills and, thusly, would have an easier time clearing the maps. Basically, a team with a level 3 Titania and a level 7 everyone else is almost certain to be slower and perform worse than one with a level 1 Titania and level 9-10 everyone else.

[Interceptor]

Spoken like someone who has obviously never leveled Titania seriously. She DOES benefit from earlygame training, the most obvious example being her performance in Ch8 with a Hand Axe, assuming that she's been given the opportunity to get a couple points of STR beforehand.

Basically, a team with a level 3 Titania and a level 7 everyone else is almost certain to be slower and perform worse than one with a level 1 Titania and level 9-10 everyone else.

This is utter nonsense. Not only are you wrong, but the numbers are bad. Titania is not going to cause a 2-3 level deficit in the entire army by taking boss kills, and she's not going to be as low as level 3 if she's soloing all of earlygame. If you want some real numbers, as opposed to your fairydust bullshit, refer to my earlygame stuff in the efficiency tier list.

[Snowy_One]

Oh? Please, tell me why I am wrong? Are you going to try to argue that, somehow, Titania killing a select few enemies during the enemy phase is somehow better than having several other people being able to get kills on both the player AND enemy phase? Or are you going to blindly assert that it is better to level her even though the only evidence that it's better to give her any combat experience at all is on a tier list which would almost certainly result in your team having difficulties in the endgame; when Titania can no longer carry the team and they are now lacking levels needed to kill? Seriously, you're not a smash-level idiot; so don't act like it.

Sides, wouldn't the only way Titania would actually save turns be if she ran ahead and killed everything? Ergo, soloing it? Otherwise she's going to be right where the party is, except I would be more than willing to wager that the enemies won't be touching her on the enemy phase. Doubly so if they have ranged weapons and she has the handaxe you wanted to level.

Yes: I have never leveled Titania 'seriously'. I keep her back and only use her when my normal team needs serious help. This happens with much less frequency then when my best friend did his playthrough (we have near-identical tactics; yet he still kicks my ass in AoE >.<) and decided to use her more frequently. In fact, aside from killing the thief in chapter 7, I didn't need her at all after 4 and was more than content to bench her.

[Interceptor]

Oh? Please, tell me why I am wrong?

All of you are witnesses: he asked for it.

Are you going to try to argue that, somehow, Titania killing a select few enemies during the enemy phase is somehow better than having several other people being able to get kills on both the player AND enemy phase? Or are you going to blindly assert that it is better to level her even though the only evidence that it's better to give her any combat experience at all is on a tier list which would almost certainly result in your team having difficulties in the endgame; when Titania can no longer carry the team and they are now lacking levels needed to kill? Seriously, you're not a smash-level idiot; so don't act like it.

No, what I'm saying is that your theorycrafting bullshit artistry is woefully inadequate to the task of backing up your insane theories. I could get more accurate and realistic level distributions if I were to crack open a fortune cookie and randomly assign people the lucky numbers. Observe, here's how you handle earlygame:

• Ch1: Titania can visit houses, emergency kill units, and take out the boss without paupering Ike/Oscar/Boyd in the process. The growth units get plenty of EXP from normal kills.
  
• Ch2: Titania doesn't even show up immediately, giving aforementioned units plus Rhys ample time to kill things, before she drop in to finish everyone off and kill the boss.
  
• Ch3: Shinon is not worth giving EXP to, Gatrie is barely worth leveling here, Ike is terrible, and if you don't get to Marcia soon she's probably going to die. Suck it up, kill some shit, get Ike whatever EXP you can, and give Titania another boss kill.
  
• Ch4: Oh look, Boyd and Oscar are still gone, and everyone sucks. Rhys and Soren are 2-shot bait, your best non-Titania tanks are a guy who can't double unless the enemy is holding an anvil, and a guy that can't reasonably counter-attack. Ike is facing WTD and scary-as-shit hit rates and damage numbers. Meanwhile, Titania can just grab a Hand Axe, run in, bulldog like a dozen guys, and end the chapter quickly and safely, taking Yet Another Boss Kill in the process.
  
• Ch5: FoW, strictly turn-limited, tons of guys to kill, and good luck getting to the boss without using Titania to mow down the billion guys that are in the way.
  
• Ch6: Shinon/Gatrie are gone, and you're left with your usual morons plus those two guys that last saw combat in Ch2 before the FoW chapter. Even if you're looking to build your growth units, they can all combo down one side of the bridge while Titania solos the other side, and ends with the boss.
  
• Ch7: Shinon/Gats don't show up until you've progressed to a certain point, and they will have their hands full again. Once more, Titania is the key to a quick Rout.
  
• Ch8: Assuming you haven't aimed a loaded pistol at your foot and repeatedly squeezed the trigger by neglecting to train Titania, you can give her a Hand Axe in this chapter, and she absolutely rapes the south end, including the boss. You have access to BEXP finally in this chapter, so the scrub units that have been clinging to Titania's apron strings up to this point can actually be leveled up to decent performance, about level 10 or so in most cases. Even the likes of Mia and Soren.
  

Etcetera.

Yes: I have never leveled Titania 'seriously'. I keep her back and only use her when my normal team needs serious help. This happens with much less frequency then when my best friend did his playthrough (we have near-identical tactics; yet he still kicks my ass in AoE >.<) and decided to use her more frequently. In fact, aside from killing the thief in chapter 7, I didn't need her at all after 4 and was more than content to bench her.

Congratulations, you gave up a bunch of earlygame turns for no reason at all, since BEXP ensures that your growth units will be raping faces starting in Ch8. Titania's offense in mid-to-lategame is buttressed by early training (her growths are really good). Her STR is only ~4 behind the likes of Oscar at max level, which she's reaching long before he is, and some time with the KW keeps her SPD right where it needs to be. Boo hoo, she doesn't have the best mt on the team, dry your tears and give her a forge. Or, you know, an Energy Drop.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Interceptor

[Anouleth]

Oh? Please, tell me why I am wrong? Are you going to try to argue that, somehow, Titania killing a select few enemies during the enemy phase is somehow better than having several other people being able to get kills on both the player AND enemy phase? Or are you going to blindly assert that it is better to level her even though the only evidence that it's better to give her any combat experience at all is on a tier list which would almost certainly result in your team having difficulties in the endgame; when Titania can no longer carry the team and they are now lacking levels needed to kill? Seriously, you're not a smash-level idiot; so don't act like it.

Int is not 'blindly asserting' anything. This is what he's personally found out by playing the game - and given that I've also played this game, I can vouch that he's right.

In earlygame, let's face it, your units suck. They cannot kill everything on their own unless you feel like mucking around and going over the BEXP turn limit. Titania is saving you turns by killing bosses that others have difficulty with, and the loss in EXP is relatively minor - in fact, almost non-existant. 35 exp on Titania is not that much less valuable than 50 exp on Oscar or Ike, and the fact that we save turns by giving that exp to Titania instead makes it a obvious decision to make.

And I have no idea what your talking about with regards to the Endgame. Int is not suggesting that we have Titania solo levels - merely that we give her the boss kills. That is not going to significantly impact the rest of the team, not in a million years. Even if it did, lategame is a joke and pathetically easy. BEXP is thrown at us in piles - we have 5000 BEXP just by the end of Chapter 15, and even if we deduct 1000 so that Marcia can 2-turn Chapter 15, we have enough that we can simply point our fingers at Astrid/Makalov/Tormod and promote them without even trying. I certainly don't think we're going to be losing turns on lategame chapters because Ike/Oscar/Boyd didn't get any boss kills in earlygame.

Sides, wouldn't the only way Titania would actually save turns be if she ran ahead and killed everything? Ergo, soloing it? Otherwise she's going to be right where the party is, except I would be more than willing to wager that the enemies won't be touching her on the enemy phase. Doubly so if they have ranged weapons and she has the handaxe you wanted to level.

Sure, but look at Chapter 1. If Oscar misses the boss, or someone gets hit too many times and needs a vulnerary, you can wave goodbye to beating it in 4 turns, unless Titania steps in and kills the boss. Ditto Chapter 2 - we have only 5 turns, so our other characters are more than occupied just killing regular enemies. Chapter 3 is 6 turns, Ike can't counter half the enemies and needs to talk to Marcia, Gatrie/Shinon are wastes of time, so Titania is important. Chapter 4 is a clusterfuck, since Rhys and Soren are super frail, it's nearly impossible to chokepoint, Ike faces WTD, and we have a draconian BEXP turn limit. Chapter 5 is a little more sedate, but it's not realistically possible to get the boss kill without Titania, so I think she can take it for herself if she feels like it. Chapter 6 is also pretty strict with the turn limit and quite large, as well.

And you'll find that Titania taking some kills is not really harming you that much. At least, it doesn't harm you as much as refusing to use her at all does.

Yes: I have never leveled Titania 'seriously'. I keep her back and only use her when my normal team needs serious help. This happens with much less frequency then when my best friend did his playthrough (we have near-identical tactics; yet he still kicks my ass in AoE >.<) and decided to use her more frequently. In fact, aside from killing the thief in chapter 7, I didn't need her at all after 4 and was more than content to bench her.

Then don't knock what you've never even tried to do. Yes, Titania isn't really 'needed' after chapter 4, but quite frankly, Oscar is never 'needed', neither is Boyd, Ike, Astrid, Marcia, or anyone in the game, really.

The double-standard people use with Jeigans is ridiculous. Imagine someone suggested that Boyd shouldn't get any kills in earlygame because it takes EXP away from Oscar/Ike/Titania. In a way, this argument is far more sound than the argument you make against Titania, since Boyd isn't really speeding the game up or helping us in earlygame. Yet people DON'T make that stupid argument because it's sandbagging to suggest that a character just 'not get used' for a third of their existence.

EDIT: Man, I spend 15 minutes typing that out just for Int to beat me.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Anouleth

[Narga_Rocks]

Just to clarify: Boss EXP is actually two separate exp values combined. 30 base EXP (40 in easy mode) + the exp you would have gotten if the enemy was a normal enemy (I think there is a boosted 5 EXP in easy mode for this as well) + the mode bonus (30 for easy, 20 for normal, 15 for hard).

So for Titania to kill, say, the first bandit boss on hard, the calculation would go like this. (3 + [-16] + 15 + 30 + 0) x 1 = 32 EXP.

Conversely, for, say, a base-level Boyd to do the same: (12 + [3] + 15 + 30 + 0s) x 1 = 60 EXP. It is almost double the EXP.

If it was a level 5 non-boss, it would be like this.

Boyd: (12 + [3] + 15 + 0 + 0s) x 1 = 30 EXP.

Titania: (3 + [-16] + 15 + 0 + 0) x 1 = 2 EXP.

Also, the argument for forgoing Titania in the early game works like this. Titania is already really powerful. So power that, in fact, having her level up is meaningless because she won't actually perform any better. However, the EXP that Titania got could have gone to lower-leveled units. These units actually would perform better if they got the kills and, thusly, would have an easier time clearing the maps. Basically, a team with a level 3 Titania and a level 7 everyone else is almost certain to be slower and perform worse than one with a level 1 Titania and level 9-10 everyone else.

I hope you realize that 30 static exp on Titania is worth a lot more than 30 on Ike/etc. The cost of the bexp to give Titania that 30 exp is tremendous. Giving that 30 exp to Ike is cheap in bexp. Hence, the team is at a better level this way. And that adjustment due to level on the rest of the exp isn't exactly a problem. You get more optimal use of your cexp and bexp by giving boss kills to Titania. We get a whole extra character this way compared to what you have, and early on every character counts, especially when one is like twice as good as all the others.

Now, would you like me to post a link to Interceptor's levels in this game when he took a team including Mia to around chapter 17 and had everyone promoted by mid-chapter 16 or something and Titania at level 9 or something like that? Trust me, you aren't suffering in endgame when he manages to level Titania and promote everyone about 2 chapters before others were accepting the idea of promoted units. And there is all those comparisons in chapters 12 to 15 where people list a level and Interceptor says they are crazy for making the character 3 or more levels lower than it should be.

The "give Titania boss kills" strategy is in no way weakening your team. You are getting turn counts 2 or 3 lower than you'd have without Titania and she is being strengthened to continue destroying things later on. Compare a level 9 Titania to a 20/1 Oscar and I dare you to tell me she loses that comparison despite winning or tying every single stat except defence.

[Anouleth]

The "give Titania boss kills" strategy is in no way weakening your team. You are getting turn counts 2 or 3 lower than you'd have without Titania and she is being strengthened to continue destroying things later on. Compare a level 9 Titania to a 20/1 Oscar and I dare you to tell me she loses that comparison despite winning or tying every single stat except defence.

Surely Titania would have a defensive lead due to her supports? Mist alone is giving her +2 or +3, and she can easily have a B Boyd for another +1. Although with his EarthxEarth, he probably curbstomps Titania in avoid...

[Narga_Rocks]

Surely Titania would have a defensive lead due to her supports? Mist alone is giving her +2 or +3, and she can easily have a B Boyd for another +1. Although with his EarthxEarth, he probably curbstomps Titania in avoid...

Yeah, I was going supportless. Titania can perhaps get +2 from Mist and eventually +3 and maybe get more elsewhere, but Oscar won't be dying at that point anyway. However, the interesting thing is to look at the enemies. Titania shouldn't be dying anyway so the fact they have the same str and Oscar likely isn't supporting +mt and Titania has a spd lead to overcome any KW levels he got that she didn't so their offensive prowess should be leaning in Titania's favour anyway. Also she's better on mages. And don't forget player phase. If you are rushing down things with mounts, either Oscar or his partners are going to be without a support for one attack. It's cool that Titania can rush in and KO the mage and take less damage than Oscar would had you attacked with him. Over time, if Oscar is going first he'll eventually need healing (maybe).

Anyway, the most important thing here is that Titania compares quite well to one of the best characters in the game and this is like chapter 16. And then there is only an 8 level difference and her growths are better so it should remain that way for most of the rest of the game (not the level difference but the comparison in stats). And she was the best for between a third and half the game. The first few chapters of which she's the best by a lot.

I believe the rules clarify this point; "absence" simmply means that the use of the two units are mutually exclusive.

For example, in Matthew vs. Ninian in FE7, if unt presence is considered, Ninian > Matthew is arguable. But if unit absence is considered, Matthew > Ninian is obvious. Without using Matthew at all, you don't S-Rank Funds. I personally think this makes a lot more sense.

I disagree. There is nothing in the rules that disagrees with my interpretation. If Ike is "absent" then he is not taking a slot. There isn't a devoted "Ike slot" in the game. He is one among x, but he is forced to be deployed. Remove Ike and you still have x slots available and Ike is no longer taking one of them. Hence, Oscar v. Ike allows x units vs. x units.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Dat Nick]

Titania supporting with Mist seems ten different kinds of inconvenient, but it's not like she needs it.

The words are wasted on Snowy, anyway. Ignoring people who are going to dispute Titania tier is justified.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Cody Travers

[Narga_Rocks]

Titania supporting with Mist seems ten different kinds of inconvenient, but it's not like she needs it.

It's bad (5 vs. 9 move) until she promotes and will likely never activate much until Mist has that 8 move. It may not be a good idea to make since you might want to put Mist with others. Also, if you are storming through the chapters then Mist may end up needing to promote at level 10 or something and she would perhaps be a liability if within 3 of Titania. But it's a possibility. Also, I agree it's not like she needs it. The fact that she'll compare offensively while rarely needing healing anyway is enough to make her nearly as good, which is really all she needs after being 2 or 3 times as good for a long time at the beginning.

[Zkirsche]

Level 12 Titania to 20/5 Oscar (3 for her, 4 for him) and now he has a small str win (and they could easily have the same str at this point anyway) and he has a slightly bigger def win, but she actually has a bigger hp win and a bigger lck and res win and she is still winning skill and spd anyway.

To be honest, the only stats which actually matter in the comparison are probably Str and Spd as neitehr are missing nor dying pretty much ever.