S Rank Tier List for FE7

[Life]

If you're better at S Ranking HHM, you're higher up on the tier list. Bolded names are only tentative changes until someone decides to speak and argue against or for them.

-Top-

Matthew

Serra = Priscilla

Raven

Ninian/Nils

Marcus

-High-

Oswin

Hector

Sain

Kent

Lowen

Guy

Erk

Florina

Pent

-Upper Mid-

Eliwood

Harken

Lucius

Geitz

Legault

Fiora

Heath

Canas

Dorcas

Lyn

-Lower Mid-

Hawkeye

Athos

Isadora

Bartre

Jaffar

Karel

-Low-

Dart

Vaida

Rebecca

Rath

Louise

Wil

Nino

Farina

-Bottom-

Karla

Wallace

Renault

Currently unranked:

Merlinus

Proposed changes and reasoning (will not do anything about them without discussion):

-Upper Mid-

Pent

Lucius

Harken

Geitz

Legault

Canas

Fiora

Dorcas

Hawkeye

-Lower Mid-

Heath

Athos

Lyn

Isadora

Bartre

Jaffar

1. Dorcas down from above Geitz to below Fiora. Dorcas may have great availability because of his Chapter 12 joining time but it's really all he has for him, even considering his LHM level of 7 or so. 7 AS is great for the early game but he has a measly Spd growth of 20. Sooner or later (usually sooner), he stops doubling his enemies (any enemy with 6+ AS escapes a Dorcas double until after the man promotes, if he does) and that's when his weaknesses show. 4 Def with a 25 growth rate will not keep him alive for long (even with ~33 HP), especially since his 18 Mt with an Iron Axe won't have him one-shotting anything. Steel Axe gives him 21 Mt but he loses 1 AS which hurts his already preciously low Spd. He's got 4 chapters max before enemies fully escape the double and once they do, Dorcas is in trouble as he loses health quickly and can't ORKO anything at that point. This is just a blanket statement on Dorcas, more coming in a sec.

2. Canas > Fiora. As expensive as Luna is (150G a pop), it offers Canas a way to do rather devastating damage to bosses that Erk and Lucius can't compete with. Level 14 Canas!Luna does ~13 damage with a 24% chance of a critical happening (can't remember how much HP Darin has but if it's 39-, Canas OHKO's him 1/4 of the time). Aside from that, he's a rather decent fighter with the second best defense of any magic user (Pent tops this list). Promotion gives him 4 HP, 3 Spd, 2 Def and E Staves, giving him that staff Exp pool to draw from. He'll fight for the 3rd or 4th Guiding Ring (will probably lose to Prissy but has better overall stats than Lucius and won't die if he gets poked by a metal rod) and could possibly get it. Also, early promotion is very possible as it does wonders for Canas' Spd and puts him in the "healer who will not die" category that both Prissy and Serra don't exist in. It also ups Canas' Con to 8, giving him no penalty from Flux.

Fiora, on the other hand, is outclassed by her younger sister and comes at a rather inopportune time (fighting pirates in the middle of a Fog of War map). She will not get the first Elysian Whip and has 0 actual supports aside from a potential B Florina A Farina if Farina gets played. Furthermore, Heath has much better stats at lower levels thanks to his HHM bonuses which makes him a candidate for the second Elysian Whip if you're willing to wait about a chapter or two to promote a second flier. She also has defense woes (21 HP and 6 Def isn't going to cut it for a melee unit) and because she is primary eating counters while Canas isn't, Fiora has a much easier chance of dying. She has flying utility but Florina has that too and does the job better than her sister.

Take it for what you want but I think that Canas > Fiora.

3. Bartre > Jaffar. Bartre has a huge availability gap on Jaffar and allows for 18 levels of Exp to be put into him. Jaffar will never be considered an actual combat unit in the same way that a couple of fries will never be considered a 4 course meal and is rather just Exp fodder with Silencer waiting to happen. He's a gimmick unit for the endgame basically. Bartre also has early game use and once he gets over that Spd hump of 3 base (40 growth rate), he stops getting doubled and it doesn't take long for him to get better than Dorcas at fighting (or anything, really).

4. Hawkeye to Upper Mid and Dorcas > Hawkeye. The resident desert man has ridiculously good bases and 20 innate crit before considering his water and mountain walking skills (26 and 28x is where it really comes into play). 11 base AS should be enough to double anything of significance in his joining chapter and a Killer Axe gives him 50+ Crit with 29 Att. However, he misses out on the beginning of the game when Dorcas is available. Dorcas does have that LHM level which helps against the enemies that exist that Bartre can't yet handle (first 3 or so chapters). Dorcas' early game contributions outweigh Hawkeye's later game perks.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Survivor

[Inui]

Why is Oswin above the Cavaliers?

[Life]

Why is Oswin above the Cavaliers?

I'm going to guess that his availability and level lead over Sain and Kent has something do with it. Lowen's also got his attack woes while Oswin has 13 base Str.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Inui]

Oswin vs Lowen is earlygame durability and Atk vs significantly more mobility due to a much better class and much better supports.

Oswin existing in a few chapters before Kent and Sain doesn't mean that much. Availability is soooooooooooo gay. I can't decide what I hate more; the never-ending availability over-hyping or deployment slot arguments.

vkjdshgfvkjshfdas

Kent and Sain both have very passable durability. In fact, it's pretty good. But they slaughter Oswin in mobility and offense.

[Dat Nick]

On a ranked tier list where your PC levels are deflated due to rotation and being 3-4RKOd is worse in this game than it is in say, FE6, I'd need a lot more than "oh their durability's pretty good" to convince me.

[Inui]

They can promote as late as like Chapter 24 and have a about a 3% chance of dying if something like 10 Wyverns attack them. =/

[Life]

Oswin vs Lowen is earlygame durability and Atk vs significantly more mobility due to a much better class and much better supports.

Oswin existing in a few chapters before Kent and Sain doesn't mean that much. Availability is soooooooooooo gay. I can't decide what I hate more; the never-ending availability over-hyping or deployment slot arguments.

vkjdshgfvkjshfdas

Kent and Sain both have very passable durability. In fact, it's pretty good. But they slaughter Oswin in mobility and offense.

In regards to availability, I don't think it matters if you don't like that argument. Just because you think that "availability is soooooooooooo gay" doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Oswin being around for extra chapters in the early game and being a brick wall while weakening enemies to set up kills for Rebecca and Eliwood is definitely worth something.

As for the durability issue, 20/0 Oswin has almost double the Def of both 20/0 Sain and 20/0 Kent. If they have "pretty good durability", then Oswin is a walling god.

[Dat Nick]

I don't disagree with the idea of Oswin dropping at all (movement is pretty important after all, especially with such low turncount demands) but I also want to add that Chapter 24 is Chapter 24, they haven't had 3% chances of dying the whole game. Oswin starts with good durability, they have to earn it.

[CATS]

Someone has to run the opening post so they can make the changes. Complaining about how they seem like they're "owning" it seems petty and pointless.

No, what's petty is for someone to think they have the "rights" to a tier list that they've barely contributed anything to (this particular list has been under discussion for 4-5 years now), especially considering these tier list "owners" are frequently self-appointed. Of course someone has to edit the OP. What's bothersome is the attitude that sometimes develops where the person thinks he/she has some sort of special authority because they made the first post, as opposed to simply performing a necessary function.

lol @ mudslinging directed at me in last topic

Take the following statements with a grain of salt, Life; I'm probably trolling.

Fiora, on the other hand, is outclassed by her younger sister and comes at a rather inopportune time (fighting pirates in the middle of a Fog of War map). She will not get the first Elysian Whip and has 0 actual supports aside from a potential B Florina A Farina if Farina gets played. Furthermore, Heath has much better stats at lower levels thanks to his HHM bonuses which makes him a candidate for the second Elysian Whip if you're willing to wait about a chapter or two to promote a second flier. She also has defense woes (21 HP and 6 Def isn't going to cut it for a melee unit) and because she is primary eating counters while Canas isn't, Fiora has a much easier chance of dying. She has flying utility but Florina has that too and does the job better than her sister.

I think you're either underestimating Fiora or overestimating Florina. Their stats at equal levels are very similar, and Florina has a similar situation support-wise. Considering each is the best support option for the other, you could probably argue that Florina's existence gives you more of a reason to use Fiora. It's true that Florina has a higher level when Fiora joins, but how much higher? Not that much. I'd expect 4-5 levels higher at most. And remember that since it's ranked, a low level isn't entirely a disadvantage. Fiora can easily gain Exp against mages in 19x and boost your Exp rank.

Hawkeye to Upper Mid and Dorcas > Hawkeye. The resident desert man has ridiculously good bases and 20 innate crit before considering his water and mountain walking skills (26 and 28x is where it really comes into play). 11 base AS should be enough to double anything of significance in his joining chapter and a Killer Axe gives him 50+ Crit with 29 Att. However, he misses out on the beginning of the game when Dorcas is available. Dorcas does have that LHM level which helps against the enemies that exist that Bartre can't yet handle (first 3 or so chapters). Dorcas' early game contributions outweigh Hawkeye's later game perks.

Regardless of Dorcas, I agree with Hawkeye to upper mid. Hawkeye is very clutch in Living Legend and Genesis, and forced on both chapters.

[Narga_Rocks]

No, what's petty is for someone to think they have the "rights" to a tier list that they've barely contributed anything to (this particular list has been under discussion for 4-5 years now), especially considering these tier list "owners" are frequently self-appointed. Of course someone has to edit the OP. What's bothersome is the attitude that sometimes develops where the person thinks he/she has some sort of special authority because they made the first post, as opposed to simply performing a necessary function.

They aren't really self-appointed here. At least, not after the first person. But there really has to be a first person, unless you use PMing or IRC or something to determine a person to start the list. When people retire from the position, usually there is either some discussion of who will be the next to run it or the previous runner will nominate/choose a person to run it. Mostly people just agree to the selection. Enough people, anyway, to make a majority. I think it was at least 4 in favour, and only 2 opposed, so it's even a two-thirds majority this time.

lol @ mudslinging directed at me in last topic

I'm getting tempted to draw a line somewhere, but I'm not to sure how far to draw it. It generally isn't too bad, though. Guess I'll just have to keep watching.

Take the following statements with a grain of salt, Life; I'm probably trolling.

But you don't have to be like that. Besides, Inui is basically the one that started it, whatever his intentions were. Unfortunately other people decided to start repeating it.

[CATS]

They aren't really self-appointed here. At least, not after the first person. But there really has to be a first person, unless you use PMing or IRC or something to determine a person to start the list. When people retire from the position, usually there is either some discussion of who will be the next to run it or the previous runner will nominate/choose a person to run it. Mostly people just agree to the selection. Enough people, anyway, to make a majority. I think it was at least 4 in favour, and only 2 opposed, so it's even a two-thirds majority this time.

Indeed, I'm not talking about the selection process so much as the bossy attitudes that OPs often develop. Regardless of how many voted for you, you don't have a right to assume that your opinion carries more weight than anyone else's, or that you're more important (or you shouldn't have that right, at least).

It's true that some sort of discussion usually occurs in this situation more recently, but there were self-appointed people in the past, or people who were just deemed as a successor by the previous tier list "owner" or whatever. Who were the 2 opposed here? Inui and I guess you're counting me? I would've picked Life Admiral if I had a say in it, though.

I'm getting tempted to draw a line somewhere, but I'm not to sure how far to draw it. It generally isn't too bad, though. Guess I'll just have to keep watching.

Is this directed to my behavior? Hard to tell.

[Florete]

No, what's petty is for someone to think they have the "rights" to a tier list that they've barely contributed anything to (this particular list has been under discussion for 4-5 years now), especially considering these tier list "owners" are frequently self-appointed. Of course someone has to edit the OP. What's bothersome is the attitude that sometimes develops where the person thinks he/she has some sort of special authority because they made the first post, as opposed to simply performing a necessary function.

First off, let me say that I do not completely disagree with you. I haven't mentioned it before, but I must admit I was not happy with the way Colonel M has handled some things in the tier lists he edits. Sometimes it felt like he denied arguments without really explaining why just because he's the list editor, which I agree isn't right. This is why you'll rarely (possibly never) see me refer to the FE10 list as "my tier list," only "the FE10 list" or "our list" or something, because I see it as more of a community-wide thing.

However, someone needs to be able to make a judgment call. Without someone to "run" the list, certain arguments could be kept going forever because neither side is capable of convincing the other. I've been in these myself. There has to be someone that can cast the final vote, and a good list editor will realize when s/he is not even always that person (this is normally only when the editor in question is part of the unending argument, though those might have to left to the editor as well).

I am already happy with how Life Admiral is doing this, simply based on this line:

Proposed changes and reasoning (will not do anything about them without discussion):

Someone like Inui would (and I use him because he has) make the changes "just cuz."

[Narga_Rocks]

Indeed, I'm not talking about the selection process so much as the bossy attitudes that OPs often develop. Regardless of how many voted for you, you don't have a right to assume that your opinion carries more weight than anyone else's, or that you're more important (or you shouldn't have that right, at least).

Yeah, the bossy attitude where "this is my tier list and unit A will never be above unit B while I'm around" is not good. Obviously the attitude is usually not so obvious, but my quote there is kinda the idea you are against, right?

It's true that some sort of discussion usually occurs in this situation more recently, but there were self-appointed people in the past, or people who were just deemed as a successor by the previous tier list "owner" or whatever. Who were the 2 opposed here? Inui and I guess you're counting me? I would've picked Life Admiral if I had a say in it, though.

Yeah, I was counting you. You seemed opposed to the idea in general, so I counted you. If you would have picked Life Admiral then I obviously must retract my statement about there being 2 opposed.

Is this directed to my behavior? Hard to tell.

I suppose it might be hard to tell, sorry. You haven't done anything. I'm just thinking of some of the near insults that have been tossed your way.

[Colonel M]

Look, the only thing I literally banned was the Farina stuff, and it was merely to silently tell "can it" because everyone else basically summed up the argument against her rising: she still dents the funds rank no matter if you 7 star it or 4 star it. Since the general argument is around ranks itself, it is still a negative that Farina brings to the table, and you can't just "erase" the point of it. With Merlinus it was the whole many people agreeing / disagreeing to adding him. At first I was reluctant, yes, but I did add him in after. Then the discussion dropped altogether. Speaking of that, why isn't Merlinus in the other Tier List (FE7's Efficiency List)?

I had no problems with anyone else running a tier list beside mine. I almost wished for it in the ranks one because, truth be told, I didn't really want it. I merely took it "just because he asked" and just ran it. Of course, my general attitude towards ranks is still the same to this day: waste of time, etc. I finally decided that it was time to get rid of it anyhow (since I didn't want it in the first place), so I merely asked bb about it because he ran it before me. Since he didn't want it, I threw the offer to the GFAQs member database because, IIRC, it was originally their list (Jaffar7's) and since Jaffar is usually absent bblade ran it after that I guess. Keep in mind that I was merely trolling with the CATS thing, I had no issue giving it to him either if Life or Mori turned it down. I wasn't even ready to oppose you, but like I said: asking priority. In fact I was kind of hoping you'd ask for the list after the Merlinus crap.

Aside from that, I don't ban stuff on lists anymore. I don't even have the arena banned on the joke FE6 Ranked list. I also don't plan on banning arguments in the FE6 list either, and I really haven't since. They asked me for a ruleset and I provided it, and asked if people wanted interpretation or changes to the rule. That still stands since I don't mind doing so myself. It's a pity that I couldn't place my own turncounts on the FE6 Rank list due to stubbornness, but *shrugs* it's how life rolls I guess.

EDIT: To barge on-topic here, I disagree with the gap between Fiora and Florina. In fact I'm rather curious as to how Fiora is so low here when Florina is at High and Fiora is Upper Mid. I'm also not sure, but I'd be willing to check out Bartre going up a little more. Granted, he's under Lyn and Isadora atm who are rather tricky ponies to overcome (Lyn with EXP Rank and forced depolyment, Isadora being on a pony and being decent at combat), but I can see how he should stay down there all the same considering the rotation probably hurts his potential a lot.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Dat Nick]

Haha wow I did not think Colonel managed to piss off a bunch of people. I thought it was just CATS and TYTE. Now I actually get the whole Tyrant fad. Hysterical. Marcus you noob.

And CATS, if you would have picked Life Admiral "if you had a say in it", then what on earth are you complaining about?

[Colonel M]

Haha wow I did not think Colonel managed to piss off a bunch of people. I thought it was just CATS and TYTE. Now I actually get the whole Tyrant fad. Hysterical. Marcus you noob.

It was during your absence, but honestly CATS was not the one pissing me off (he was right in some aspects with Merlinus).

That list probably killed any chance of running another tier list again, well that has others backing it. I want that hatchet buried and gone. That's why I offered it to who I asked.

And CATS, if you would have picked Life Admiral "if you had a say in it", then what on earth are you complaining about?

He's mad about the way I elected to who would take over the list. I kind of threw it to you and GFAQs first for the reasons of having it before me, then I was going to go down to whoever else wanted it. It's out of my hands now, and damn glad it is too. CATS can have the FE6 Rank one too if he wants, but I dunno if he really wants it. There's still no FEDS list that's been updated either and there are other ranked games such as FE4. Hell I don't think there's a current FE8 list either.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Rodykitty]

There's still no FEDS list that's been updated either

Didn't the FEDS list get updated last night, or almost did?

[Colonel M]

Didn't the FEDS list get updated last night, or almost did?

I meant in here (unless you updated it) since CATS does not go to FEG anymore.

[Rodykitty]

I would bring the FEDS tier list back here now that OliverXRenning is banned, but I do not run the FEDS tier list anymore, so it wouldn't be fair.

[Narga_Rocks]

Look, the only thing I literally banned was the Farina stuff, and it was merely to silently tell "can it" because everyone else basically summed up the argument against her rising: she still dents the funds rank no matter if you 7 star it or 4 star it. Since the general argument is around ranks itself, it is still a negative that Farina brings to the table, and you can't just "erase" the point of it. With Merlinus it was the whole many people agreeing / disagreeing to adding him. At first I was reluctant, yes, but I did add him in after. Then the discussion dropped altogether. Speaking of that, why isn't Merlinus in the other Tier List (FE7's Efficiency List)?

I had no problems with anyone else running a tier list beside mine. I almost wished for it in the ranks one because, truth be told, I didn't really want it. I merely took it "just because he asked" and just ran it. Of course, my general attitude towards ranks is still the same to this day: waste of time, etc. I finally decided that it was time to get rid of it anyhow (since I didn't want it in the first place), so I merely asked bb about it because he ran it before me. Since he didn't want it, I threw the offer to the GFAQs member database because, IIRC, it was originally their list (Jaffar7's) and since Jaffar is usually absent bblade ran it after that I guess. Keep in mind that I was merely trolling with the CATS thing, I had no issue giving it to him either if Life or Mori turned it down. I wasn't even ready to oppose you, but like I said: asking priority. In fact I was kind of hoping you'd ask for the list after the Merlinus crap.

Aside from that, I don't ban stuff on lists anymore. I don't even have the arena banned on the joke FE6 Ranked list. I also don't plan on banning arguments in the FE6 list either, and I really haven't since. They asked me for a ruleset and I provided it, and asked if people wanted interpretation or changes to the rule. That still stands since I don't mind doing so myself. It's a pity that I couldn't place my own turncounts on the FE6 Rank list due to stubbornness, but *shrugs* it's how life rolls I guess.

EDIT: To barge on-topic here, I disagree with the gap between Fiora and Florina. In fact I'm rather curious as to how Fiora is so low here when Florina is at High and Fiora is Upper Mid. I'm also not sure, but I'd be willing to check out Bartre going up a little more. Granted, he's under Lyn and Isadora atm who are rather tricky ponies to overcome (Lyn with EXP Rank and forced depolyment, Isadora being on a pony and being decent at combat), but I can see how he should stay down there all the same considering the rotation probably hurts his potential a lot.

For the record, this:

"this is my tier list and unit A will never be above unit B while I'm around"

was not a statement in reference to Colonel M, despite what some may have thought about his decisions regarding Farina and Merlinus. I thought those decisions were fine. Of course, I thought fe3 player banning certain things on the feds list was hilarious, so I'm probably not the best to ask about that topic. I particularly loved his banning of an entire debater.

[chrysalid]

Have you guys had an argument about playstyles? For example you can rotate really heavily for XP, which screws up supports and tactics, and still S rank with breathing room (see: dondon's average stats ranked log). But the playstyle would significantly change tier arguments. If two methods can hit the S-rank, how do you prioritize? Does overkilling one rank mean more than overkilling a different one?

Edited March 22, 2010 by chrysalid

[Dat Nick]

To my knowledge, it's assumed that getting Ss in everything is assumed.

[chrysalid]

No, I mean for example if one playstyle overkills tactics by 10 turns and XP by 100 levels, that's going to produce different tiers than some playstyle that overkills tactics by 30 and XP by 10 levels. Which one is a more ideal playstyle for a tiering discussion?

[Life]

Take the following statements with a grain of salt, Life; I'm probably trolling.

Surprisingly, it's actually hard to piss me. 'sides, I don't really mind. I'm just slightly surprised that all of you (aside from Inui but as long as he doesn't hate my guts, that's fine) hold me in higher esteem than I expected.

I think you're either underestimating Fiora or overestimating Florina. Their stats at equal levels are very similar, and Florina has a similar situation support-wise. Considering each is the best support option for the other, you could probably argue that Florina's existence gives you more of a reason to use Fiora. It's true that Florina has a higher level when Fiora joins, but how much higher? Not that much. I'd expect 4-5 levels higher at most. And remember that since it's ranked, a low level isn't entirely a disadvantage. Fiora can easily gain Exp against mages in 19x and boost your Exp rank.

Probably and I'd say underestimating Fiora. But I'm just trying to make a case for Canas here. Aside from his base Spd and the fact that he loses AS from Flux, he's quite solid. You can toss him a Body Ring instead of a Guiding Ring to up his Luna AS and use him as a lategame sniper on like Denning or Limstella (Thor's Ire will knock his Crit up to 35) without having to promote him.

Regardless of Dorcas, I agree with Hawkeye to upper mid. Hawkeye is very clutch in Living Legend and Genesis, and forced on both chapters.

Yeah, I've been calling for this one to happen for a long time. This and Geitz over Dorcas. Any one else have any complaints?

I am already happy with how Life Admiral is doing this, simply based on this line:

Proposed changes and reasoning (will not do anything about them without discussion):

Someone like Inui would (and I use him because he has) make the changes "just cuz."

Just because I'm editing the list doesn't mean that I have an unholy power to make whatever changes I want, or at least that's what I think. I don't even think that I have any more power over you guys, I'm just basically "reposting the list with the changes made" (something I used to do at GameFAQs a ton).

Back at home, if we all came to a consensus (which happened often), then we'd make a change. I'd love for that to go down here as because I have no real power aside from editing the first post.

No, I mean for example if one playstyle overkills tactics by 10 turns and XP by 100 levels, that's going to produce different tiers than some playstyle that overkills tactics by 30 and XP by 10 levels. Which one is a more ideal playstyle for a tiering discussion?

I've always assumed the perfect S Rank run. By this I mean perfectly tying both Tactics and Exp. It's hard to put a quantitative number on how much a unit helps or affects either but it's been generally assumed that Exp is the harder rank to 5* and because the number is so high, Tactics then becomes hard because of the arena grinding to make that Exp number. Balcerzak has told me that the EHM Exp Rank scared him because he only beat it by ~118 Exp and that was after quite a lot of turns at the FFO arena.

That's my fence sitter answer. If you want an actual answer of what I think, I personally believe that it's better to overkill Exp instead of Tactics.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Balcerzak]

1. Dorcas down from above Geitz to below Fiora.

I can fully get behind this.

2. Canas > Fiora. As expensive as Luna is (150G a pop), it offers Canas a way to do rather devastating damage to bosses that Erk and Lucius can't compete with. Level 14 Canas!Luna does ~13 damage with a 24% chance of a critical happening (can't remember how much HP Darin has but if it's 39-, Canas OHKO's him 1/4 of the time). Aside from that, he's a rather decent fighter with the second best defense of any magic user (Pent tops this list). Promotion gives him 4 HP, 3 Spd, 2 Def and E Staves, giving him that staff Exp pool to draw from. He'll fight for the 3rd or 4th Guiding Ring (will probably lose to Prissy but has better overall stats than Lucius and won't die if he gets poked by a metal rod) and could possibly get it. Also, early promotion is very possible as it does wonders for Canas' Spd and puts him in the "healer who will not die" category that both Prissy and Serra don't exist in. It also ups Canas' Con to 8, giving him no penalty from Flux.

Fiora, on the other hand, is outclassed by her younger sister and comes at a rather inopportune time (fighting pirates in the middle of a Fog of War map). She will not get the first Elysian Whip and has 0 actual supports aside from a potential B Florina A Farina if Farina gets played. Furthermore, Heath has much better stats at lower levels thanks to his HHM bonuses which makes him a candidate for the second Elysian Whip if you're willing to wait about a chapter or two to promote a second flier. She also has defense woes (21 HP and 6 Def isn't going to cut it for a melee unit) and because she is primary eating counters while Canas isn't, Fiora has a much easier chance of dying. She has flying utility but Florina has that too and does the job better than her sister.

Take it for what you want but I think that Canas > Fiora.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I might elaborate more later, but for the moment I just have to say I'm fully of the opinion that most of the time in this game, the diminishing returns on adding more flying units isn't significant until unit three or four. If flying were purely just for rescue ferrying, or if we had a single absolutely invincible flier like Miredy the situation would be different. However, Florina won't be going off and soloing whole armies with impunity, and there are many situations when she'd love to have a partner come along and help her out.

Furthermore, there's places like Living Legend, where you may not even be sending your fliers in the same direction, but their huge mobility is still very appreciated, and in this instance substituting Heath is not as desireable due to his weak res and the fact that he's had almost no chance to really grow from his bases yet.

Fiora being desired over Heath for her huge resistance is actually somewhat recurring as well, due to the fact that it enables her to fit very nicely in the niche of mage-killers, and I'm not just talking bosses where you can absolutely justify Canas whipping out Luna, but for dealing with hordes of "scrubs" as well. Often fellow magic users don't do significant damage, due to hitting res, and often fellow melee fighters don't want to take that hit back, due to getting hit on res. I've always really found units like the peg sisters and Louise to be invaluable in this respect.

Finally, in response to some of your points about her primarily eating counters, I'm not sure she'll actually take a significantly higher amount than Canas will. Canas can't always attack without getting countered, either due to positioning or enemy 1-2 weaponry, and Fiora can often Javelin for equivalent safety.

3. Bartre > Jaffar. [...]

I do believe that Bartre has a history of being consistently under-rated, and certainly on a ranked list, I can't honestly see him below highly situational filler like Jaffar. I agree with this move.

4. Hawkeye to Upper Mid and Dorcas > Hawkeye. [...]

This would seem reasonable to me (Hawkeye's forced chapters are amazing for him, and everything he does after that is pure gravy), but then I noticed you're not actually arguing him over anyone he wasn't already over, and just arguing for a readjustment in the general tier strata. I tend to agree with the view that Mekkah put forward a while back that there are far too many unwarranted and artificial tier gaps, when the actual gap in ability isn't that noticeable. Does Hawkeye's awesome out of the box and forced chapters make him better than Heath's flying utility and reasonable performance. Probably. Is it a tier gap better? :shrug: I'd be hard pressed to agree, but maybe this is just me being biased to any unit with wings.

Why is Oswin above the Cavaliers?

I'd tend to echo this sentiment, but must confess to never have used Oswin seriously past Dragon's Gate in any ranked run, so have no real clue as to his actual late-game performance. He does have several really stand up maps of earlygame availability, which is why he's in High, but I have a hard time swallowing a 4-5 move unit over 7-8 move units.

No, I mean for example if one playstyle overkills tactics by 10 turns and XP by 100 levels, that's going to produce different tiers than some playstyle that overkills tactics by 30 and XP by 10 levels. Which one is a more ideal playstyle for a tiering discussion?

I was under the impression that we assume all ranks are just met exactly, which certainly strikes me as unrealistic, because any actually player is going to want to give themselves a reasonable safety buffer, even if they are attempting to act as a "perfect tactician". I'd be interested to hear what everyone else has to weigh in on this subject with as well, though. I get the feeling that the general trend will be that people suggest overkilling tactics is preferred, in order to follow similar goals of the efficiency list, but personally I would lean toward overkilling XP, as I find that to be a more frightening rank in general due to the much more unpredictable nature of it.