Who's the best trueblade?

[Colonel M]

I'm just going to go off-topic one more time:

Zihark easily has the most durability with supports and probably best offense due to Adept. I like Mia over Stefan since she has 100% Vantage and doesn't get critted all the time, though he does have a Str lead. Lucia is pretty clearly the worst.

Yeah, in PoR I'd say Zihark wins. I just don't think it's a landslide like others make it look like. Though, to be fair, Zihark does have Maurim support to help him out. Gotta love +1 Def / 15 Avoid on top of a dodgy unit. Still, there's Vantage + Wrath for Mia. Just sucks that the lack of 2 range and weapons that boost crit are so rare in PoR. Geh...

I actually like Stefan a little more in PoR, maybe because I'm not terribly disturbed by random critical displays. Astra is a pretty shitty skill though, can't deny that. Still, 19 Str with Vague Katti madness, which boosts his durability much higher? Not bad.

Still, it's as I said: I just hate Swordmasters in FE9 because they don't have many cool advantages like they do in other games. They just feel so freaking mediocre. This game? It's good to be a Trueblade. It just sucks that Lucia had to suck for not one, but TWO games. Ah well at least she has the looks right? That's... about it. Oh and 2-2 where she pummels everything in sight. If it wasn't for the limited availability though, I'd give her more props to being a good unit. Just whenever I look at it:

Mia > Zihark. It makes sense really. Both can have an Earth support and give benefit to their partners. Mia rocks offensively within a short time and has the greatest amount of time to improve. Like I stated, if it wasn't for Zihark being in the Dawn Brigade, I probably wouldn't rag on him as much.

Zihark > Stefan. Actually I think being good enough for endgame is nice, but Stefan's weakness is he needs the White Pool, as he likely won't gain an astronomical amount of levels. He needs 7 of them. Yeaahhh... unless the Auras only need 39 AS. Then he needs two less.

Stefan > Lucia, but Lucia > Stefan if we factor what Lucia contributes.

Lucia > Edward, but Edward > Lucia if we factor Edward being a better endgame candidate.

[Narga_Rocks]

Lucia > Edward, but Edward > Lucia if we factor Edward being a better endgame candidate.

You know, I kinda wish I'd shot myself in the foot once or twice so that I could actually be an authority on this matter, but really I think you have this the wrong way around.

1-P to 1-4 vs. Lucia's 2-2 + 4-2 (I have to agree with Cynthia now that she mentioned it, Lucia can be helpful here. Unnecessary in 4-5 due to its nature, though, but she didn't mention 4-5 anyway). Edward wins that. So, Ed > Lucia.

However, if we factor in how much easier the raising of her to being half-decent late is, then Lucia > Edward. Keeping Ed around for the whole game is tough. But I've never actually tried so maybe I just think it's tough. Who knows?

edit: and JB25, I wanted the majorly off-topic stuff to stop. Much as I love your use of "no offense".

Edited April 24, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Colonel M]

1-P to 1-4 vs. Lucia's 2-2 + 4-2 (I have to agree with Cynthia now that she mentioned it, Lucia can be helpful here. Unnecessary in 4-5 due to its nature, though, but she didn't mention 4-5 anyway). Edward wins that. So, Ed > Lucia.

However, if we factor in how much easier the raising of her to being half-decent late is, then Lucia > Edward. Keeping Ed around for the whole game is tough. But I've never actually tried so maybe I just think it's tough. Who knows?

I dunno, I kind of want to speculate just how "hard" it is to get Edward up-to-par. Lucia does have a chance, but the main issue is that she realistically has 1 chapter to gain levels (2-2 she isn't skyrocketing in levels and 4-5 can easily be "skipped"...). I figured Edward realistically wins up until 1-5, where it's probably "okay" to ditch him and never look at him twice again. That is, assuming that we're using Edward short-term. I'm speaking merely of stats there though, so don't worry about shooting yourself in the foot with authority.

Tyrant.

[Interceptor]

What we need is for Grandjackal to finish his playthrough in order to provide some data. Eddie is not all that unlike Zihark once he gets trained, and though he does not have Earth affinity himself, he and Nolan are doritos for each other in terms of supports (01 speed, matched MV, Eddie wants the avo and Nolan wants the DEF), etc.

[PuffPuff]

Honestly, I like Lucia, but her Bond supports just keep her from being terrible, they don't make her good. She's never around, and she whiffs her STR cap by a mile even if you do train her. She is not even particularly effective at BEXP abuse, due to her bases. If you want a Trueblade for Endgame that shows up wtflate, you're better off just scooping up Stefan (nobody ever remembers that he exists...), he's RNG-proof and pretty solid, not to mention stronger than even a RNG-abused Lucia can be due to male TB caps.

It is advisible to give Paragon to characters like them that are availible too late.

who said anything about 15+ to turn bonus is 10 if i remember correctly. you just put elincia and lucia next to eachother in a grass patch where all the cats/birds etc can reach you. the odds of more then one hitting you are very slim with them having earth support and bond. elincia has amiti and give Lucia 3-4 silver swords, and a left over wyvernslayer. it shouldn't take more then 5-6 turns to get to level cap unless your really unlucky with the dodge rate. Lucia/elincia can mow through 8-12 pets a turn each if you position them right. and the spawn is infinite. when their capped chuck a couple handaxes at izuka with jill (or javelins with marcia) when he has rewarp equipped.

still get bonus exp and 2 valuable characters capped save before every turn, or if your on hm well id assume 5-6 (maybe 7) turns isn't that hard to redo.

Not tht it matters about ranking in this game anyway. You can take advantage of this and max out characters this way!

Your personal experience means nothing. Lucia has a 25% STR growth rate, an 18 base, 10 points to get to cap and only 25 levels to do it in. She's generally going to be 3-4 points short of her cap even at 20/20/20, a feat that's already improbable seeing as how she only has two chapters before Endgame to get close to it.

Lucia is not just as efficient with those skills as the others. Her mt is terrible. She needs crazy shit like Silver Blades just to get to 3HKO even as a base Trueblade, and on stuff like tigers she fails even to do that.

I don't know if forging weapons help, but it is a start to make her useable!

Narga said 15+ turns. The spawns from Izuka last for roughly 20ish turns (they are not infinite), and you'll keep half of the turn-based BEXP bonus even though you go over the limit. The clear bonus is where most of the BEXP comes from, not the turn-based bonus. Even in Normal mode, you're only giving up 1250 BEXP, which is barely enough to give a single level up to some tier 2 scrub like base-level Soren.

Like how do the spawns end after 20ish turns. Does he finnally come to his senses and stops summoning them, or is it that he runs out of animals to summon?

@nagra: lol i have nothing really to say to that, my point was obviously completely missed. Sorry if the thread having a poll was completely and utterly misleading me to the fact that this was a place where people share opinions not debate them about characters on hardmode (which in no way pointed out ahead of time). So you know whatever.

@sykil: sorry it was my bad, generally when someone posts a poll to me that isn't meant to be a debate.

I thought thats what the "fire emblem debate" sub forum was used for. oh and nagra id really appreciate it if you wouldn't mock me. its not my fault he posted the topic in the wrong area with a poll. kaythx

Sure agreeable to the debating of the HM. It's not like most folks will hardly, if not, bother to play this mode anyway.

LOL what? is this guy serious? when did i say lucia was the best? this entire time I think everyone failed to realise Mia was my first pick lol and interceptor was for some assanine reason arguing my second pick.

yeah and for all those people before him that still wanted to drag it on cuz they still feel they have the right to tell me im wrong or they just have nothing better to do, i have nothing to say, nor do i have a reason to apologize.

That's another given point on to as to why that we are already a page ahead than we should.

really? because I don't think I said once that Lucia was better then Zihark or even attempted to argue she was, I said I pick lucia because she always ended up better for me, in timing, thus in usability, I found it more productive to level Jill in the earlier chapters when you were probably leveling Zihark, considering i don't use Nolan on my endgame team, due to having haar and jill. Ziharks "awesome" support never comes into play. So, with that being said you can call me wrong till your blue in the face, fact is just because zihark is the second best/best on your playthrough doesn't mean he is on mine. Mia has good support with a mandetory character and so does lucia, eddy kind of does but miccy is a sage so it doesn't seem practical. So if you guys still want to fuss over it go ahead, but everyone plays the game in their own way. Get it? No you probably don't.

How else are you going to be able to get her on par with Zikky without having to sit and stew in Izuka's chapter for a long time?

And my point is saying that your zihark is better then your untrained lucia is just wrong. thats kind of stating the obvious isn't it? thats the whole reason i find this whole "debate" worth nothing. oh btw not all ziharks stats are better and their caps aren't really that different.

if zihark better more of the time that just means more people use him, for whatever the reason, but that reason is a personal decision, which as you guys so adamantly suggest is worth nothing.

You know..I now laugh at myself as I was the same way in the Lilina Lugh debate. XD

The fact that you can't understand that all this "arguing" is the point here and thus we are on "track" is just getting sad and pathetic. Did you not notice before you started posting in this topic that it was what we had been doing since post 24, maybe earlier? That's what we do. Even if you don't like it, at least make complaints that make sense.

We wouldn't be like two pages ahead in this case.

blah blah, you guys are still at it eh? Well guess what you guys are still apparently completely clueless as to what my point is I see.

Your pitiful examples like "the moon is made of cheese" are rediculous.

OKAY, I will put as simple as I can cuz you guys can't to get past your egos to grasp something this simple. yes if you want to take that offensively go right ahead.

Debating this topic is completely, and utterly senseless, regardless of how right you may think you are, or wrong you think I am, neither are going to be true. The game has like 50+ characters and gives you the option of who to use, with no given best. If you prefer Zihark use him.

I mean mean fuck I think some who gets Meg to Sword Marshall and powns face deserves a medal, but you would laugh at them and say something degrading like why would do that gatrie is way better. And thats pure bullshit, and it just makes you guys like egotistical dickheads, who can't just let people enjoy posting their experience on a forum. You guys have to fucking debate everything.

Look. The topic is who is the best Trueblade. That means that it's a debating topic. Sure in the Lilina Lugh debate went the same way, but at least try to back up their claims with your own. If you can't then just particually play upon your experience and not replying back about it. We wouldn't be 3 pages ahead now if you were not to reply back if you don't have anything to back up theie claims.

Obviously you're the one that's right and everyone else is wrong. I bow to your superiority.

Well...if you put it that way.

Okay. If that's the case, you must think this is wrong:

Which means you're saying you actually aren't right, everyone else is, and that I should not bow to your superiority. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

I might have been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you'd stated that English was not your first language or something, but as it stands I refuse to believe you are 4 years older than me.

EDIT: I wonder when this happened.

lol Sarcasm.

It's proof that opinions can be wrong. How is that pitiful? You are treating opinions like they are some untouchable thing, but they aren't. The fact that you don't even seem to get what I'm driving at worries me.

You don't get it. The topic is "Who's the best trueblade?"

The entire point is to debate the best trueblade. It's very easy to debate over it because you can analyze their availability and situation and growths and come to a reasonable conclusion about who is the best. Only here's the thing: if you disagree with that statement, then don't post in the topic!!!! This topic is clearly for discussing who is the best trueblade, hence the title. If you think that debating who is the best trueblade is impossible, then don't post in a topic that asks you to debate who the best trueblade is. I should think that would be the obvious answer. If you don't think the topic is meaningful, then don't bother with it. What do you get out of coming in and telling us that what we are doing is utterly senseless? Why do you have the right to tell us that and we don't have the right to debate characters' abilities?

Not only do you have a victim complex, you also have seem to have this idea that you are the dude that determines what everyone else gets to do. It's been around since you started here when you thought you could tell people when they need to stop discussing a topic and you seem to think they are trolling by continuing something you no longer felt like discussing.

YOU DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT. stop acting like you do.

We would never say that they should use Gatrie instead of her. How can you still not get this? If they claim that Meg is the best Marshall, yes we will tell them, objectively and analytically, why they are wrong. But that does not mean we are laughing at them or asking them why they raised her. Did you even read speedwagon's post in the other topic about how he loves raising Marty? Everyone knows Marty isn't as good as a bunch of other characters and he wouldn't claim Marty is better. Nobody will tell him that he should be using better characters. Why would we do that? That's not what we are debating. However, if he claims that Marty > Othin or something insane like that, people will tell him why he is wrong. What's wrong with that?

I have no qualms about disregarding your hatred for our debating when you still don't seem to grasp what it is we are even doing here.

All explained throughly than mine. Thank you! We wouldn't be 3 pages ahead now if he understood this!

Well, I like Tormod and Tanith and Calill and Muarim and Edward and Bastian, and I do stick up for them when people call them 'bad' or underrate them or whatever, but I don't go around claiming ridiculous stuff like Edward > Zihark or Bastian > Soren, since I know it's obviously not true.

Congratulations, they shot themselves in the foot by spending time and effort with Meg when pretty much every sword user in Tellius with a pulse kicks her ass. Except that it's not really 'hard' to get Meg to Marshall if you don't give a shit about spending an hour boss abusing her, so I guess it's not that great anyway.

I don't think that's true. There are plenty of playthrough logs on this board, many use shitty characters like Treck or Noah. I know Int and Narga have irrational love for Mist, despite her own major weaknesses. Grandjackal is a big Edward fan. Nobody is going around trying to 'disprove' their likes, because Int/Narga/GJ don't try and pretend Mist and Edward are Ashera's gift to Tellius or whatever, they admit they're kinda mediocre units.

Yes, we debate everything. What gave it away? The tier lists with hundreds of pages of debates? The debating subforum? The fact that in virtually every corner you find people debating?

It is surprisingly the fact that everyone isn't going to completely agree with one person.

I actually do think some people's opinions of Mist cause them to overvalue her performance significantly, particularly in PoR. People tend to overrate their favorites, perhaps not to incredible extents, but they don't have total objectivity either.

I think Lucia is the third best Trueblade personally.

Well...she can be useable with some bonus EXP and spending a little extra time in the Izuka chapter because of her being one of the only 3 of the Trueblades to ever to be able to cap Res. Res, which heavily needed for the endgame chapters especially.

Seriously, though, if you can't stand us explaining to you why Lucia fails, then for fuck's sake, STOP ARGUING BACK.

Yeah, and it's such a shame that she is availible so late in the game that she otherwise would be a great unit if she were.

-----

Wtf...why are we 4 pages ahead in under a day with BS about someone personnel experience who can't take a debate seriously. We'd be 4 pages less if this weren't hitting someones peer pressure of experience by someone who hasn't played the game for like a long time and learning to keep silent about the debate if he cannot back it up with claims.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Ayanami

[Junkhead]

I'm sorry, but I don't we should be arguing about this any further...I think we should just go with what the votes show us.

[Defeatist Elitist]

It's okay. To me, Lucia is #1 in looks. With long hair anyway.

n0 u u r rong!1!!!1! zihark is mroe pritty she hasrly nice ahir nad face

[Rewjeo]

And my point is saying that your zihark is better then your untrained lucia is just wrong. thats kind of stating the obvious isn't it? thats the whole reason i find this whole "debate" worth nothing. oh btw not all ziharks stats are better and their caps aren't really that different.

if zihark better more of the time that just means more people use him, for whatever the reason, but that reason is a personal decision, which as you guys so adamantly suggest is worth nothing.

So, in all of Zihark's part 1 and 3, he's gotten no EXP? He's trained because he's existed. She's untrained because she hasn't existed (enough to get much EXP, anyways). From that point on, they're trained, which I adressed. Zihark is NOT better most of the time because he's the only one trained. He's better most of the time THEY'RE BOTH BEING TRAINED.

I UNDERSTAND THAT NOT ALL ZIHARKS ARE BETTER. BUT 99%+ ARE. <1% OF LUCIAS ARE BETTER. Plus Zihark is amazing for Part 1, and is better than enough people in part 3 that he's still positive there.

[Silith]

Caps mean you're talking loud, so press that button and shout.

To be honest the most usefull trueblade to me has been Stefan. My luck with Trueblade and their growths makes him the most unscrewable one. And even if I don't use a trueblade in the endgame (which I've done in 100% of my PT's up to now) he is the only one who offers an SS sword. Though I never used both meg and Mekalov in endgame it's always been a nice bulk of money.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Silith

[HyperChibiAbsol]

... OK, so I just took my time reading through the last few pages, and that guy is definitely NOT 23. GOD...

*cough* Yeah he is. I know because I know him in real life. >->; He's my boyfriend.

With that being said, he left so I will too... Bye.

[Ardan]

*cough* Yeah he is. I know because I know him in real life. >->; He's my boyfriend.

With that being said, he left so I will too... Bye.

hahaha, such an amazing post

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Enough with the posts that have nothing to do with Trueblades.

[Haar the Pirate]

The best Trueblade is Stefan.

Mia is a very close second though, but Stefan has the edge over her due to his green hair and living in the desert. And he is also a Branded, therefore he's cooler.

[Narga_Rocks]

The best Trueblade is Stefan.

Mia is a very close second though, but Stefan has the edge over her due to his green hair and living in the desert. And he is also a Branded, therefore he's cooler.

So if you are going by appeal, I'm curious to know what makes Mia #2. I like Mia, but I'd like to know why you like Mia more than the other 3 that also aren't Branded with green hair living in the desert.

[Haar the Pirate]

So if you are going by appeal, I'm curious to know what makes Mia #2. I like Mia, but I'd like to know why you like Mia more than the other 3 that also aren't Branded with green hair living in the desert.

Edward: some stupid punk who blocks axes with his face

Zihark: I don't know, he seems kind of meh to me.

Lucia: Hot chick with a sword and light blue hair whose playing time is too short

Mia: Hot chick with a sword and dark blue hair who is better than the previous three mentioned because she's part of the badass Greil Mercenaries and has bigger boobs than Lucia.

None of them are as cool as Stefan though.

[Ether]

May I take a guess at the perfect figure...nice,long legs,a slim waist,the obviously lightly toned stomach,breasts the perfect size to cup in your hand...then theres the cute outfit with an excellent Zettai Ryouiki...Oh...hehe...am I going on again? Silly Ether...

[ReformBlade]

Edward: some stupid punk who blocks axes with his face

Zihark: I don't know, he seems kind of meh to me.

Lucia: Hot chick with a sword and light blue hair whose playing time is too short

Mia: Hot chick with a sword and dark blue hair who is better than the previous three mentioned because she's part of the badass Greil Mercenaries and has bigger boobs than Lucia.

None of them are as cool as Stefan though.

Er... One look at the OA's of Mia and Lucia will tell you Lucia's much bustier... Either way, I agree with you that Stefan is prolly the coolest of the bunch.

[Junkhead]

I wonder why Halberdiers and SMs even have a critical bonus here, it's just pointless when the enemies' Luck actually exists and is even sometimes higher than some of your characters', the only way you're getting juice of it is with forges. So SMs are such mainly because they reach 40 Spd cap and have Astra, but after 2nd tier many other characters will reach over 30 Spd cap, making Asept useful for just about anyone even though they can't cuadruple.

[Narga_Rocks]

I wonder why Halberdiers and SMs even have a critical bonus here, it's just pointless when the enemies' Luck actually exists and is even sometimes higher than some of your characters', the only way you're getting juice of it is with forges. So SMs are such mainly because they reach 40 Spd cap and have Astra, but after 2nd tier many other characters will reach over 30 Spd cap, making Asept useful for just about anyone even though they can't cuadruple.

Um, forges still give a pretty good crit rate. Even without forges, though, if Mia didn't have a crit boost she'd have a 51% KO rate while at max spd in tier 2 with Adept. With that crit boost, her kill rate rises to around 60%. Also, against Generals she can whip out the forge you should've made for her and 24% crit vs. 14% crit is a pretty big difference.

~42% vs. ~26%. (Ignoring Adept for the Generals because the calculations become too complicated for me to bother at the moment)

Not quite double, but still pretty significant. Then Trueblades and Snipers need that +20 or +15 crit because their mastery has a low activation rate. I suppose you could maybe reduce/remove their crit rate if you upped their masteries to skill% instead of (skill/2)%, but I like the variety. Anyway, since their mastery has a bad activation the only way they can compete with the kill rates of other classes is because of that crit boost.

And then there are halbs that get a crit boost and a skill% mastery. Halbs are more lethal than Generals, really, because Impale will kill anything but red dragons anyway and they have around the same skill but they also get extra crit.

Poor Paladins and their (skill/2)% masteries and their no crit boost and their lower max skill. Oh well.

[dondon151]

Yeah, Oscar has a hell of a time critting even with his bond support. So does Boyd, but at least he gets +5 crit on promotion =/

[Colonel M]

Yeah, Oscar has a hell of a time critting even with his bond support. So does Boyd, but at least he gets +5 crit on promotion =/

At least Boyd can take on the tougher of enemies (Generals) with Hammers. Oscar just sucks, I'm sorry. I'm anti-Oscar.

[-Cynthia-]

Oscar's mobility is good, and once he gets a support up he has pretty awesome durability, not to mention that lots of people like his outgoing support bonus.

He does have issues with his Spd cap (which can be fixed with a Crown, though other people want that), and his Str, but not that many GMs consistently ORKO without crits/skill activation regardless. I like Oscar personally.

[Interceptor]

Well, the thing with Oscar is that while he eventually does get durable, he's below average at base. By the time his avoid gets going, the consistent ORKO field is getting crowded (Speedwing Haar, Speedwing Titania, Ike, crown Gatrie, Silencer Shinon), and Oscar won't be getting there without crazy resources, made worse if his outgoing support goes to someone who can't give him +ATK (like Titania). Doesn't help that he's a touch over-leveled, either, getting smoked in level-ups by the likes of crit-reliant fighters like Mia and Nephenee.

[Silith]

At least Oscar comes with a 1-2 weapon AND is capable of surviving combat. Nephenee is heavily underleveled when you get her in 3-2 and Mia is a prime candidate for benchwarming since she attracts enemies like a magnet and dodges slightly better then Edward. Unlike Edward however enemies 2HKO her right off the bat.

(or they critical her with a steel bow)

For those three for me it's Oscar > Nephenee (salvageble) > Mia.

Not that I suggest using any of them. Oscar is nice in 3-P till 3-2 for weakening things for others to kill. Mia can attack some Archers as long as she isn't anywhere near counter attacks or Enemy Phase.

[Interceptor]

Concrete durability is nice, particularly for people who are tactically inept and plan their movements poorly, since it gives you an extra buffer for survival.

However, when it comes to efficient play, offense is king, and your durability only has to be "good enough". Mia has essentially the best close-range offense of anyone other than Ike (and sometimes she even beats him) due to her SPD, crit, and skill activation chances. She very quickly becomes one of your best units, especially if you pair her with Ike. It's not hard to keep her alive, and once she gets to 3HKO'ed with high avoid she takes care of herself and can go death-squadding somewhere with her partner.

Unlike Oscar, training Mia is fast, and pays off in both medium and long term. Nephenee is similar, without being quite as powerful relative to the effort you put into her, but she's eminently more fixable than Oscar is.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Interceptor