FE Pairings

[Narga_Rocks]

Throughout the 2 games Geoffrey basically shows his devotion and love for her and she makes it evident that she appreciates all he does for her.

Oh, I'm aware that Geoffrey is nuts about her. It's quite obvious. Elincia obviously appreciates him helping out. Why wouldn't she? That doesn't indicate love. And like I said, the cliche does not involve the Knight acting gaga over the girl. It tends to go the other way. In many the "Knight" is reluctant at first until she wins him over. And she gushes about him around everyone else. Or dumb things like that. It's actually part of why I don't like that cliche because normally there is some other guy that would go better for her but she is blind to him because she's too focused on something unobtainable. That's not the case here. Elincia displays moments of friendship towards him, but she doesn't seem to display anything else. If Elincia had even one scene in which she had anything approaching the Geoffrey and Calill support convos in PoR then I'd be more willing to give in on this. It's why I said if anyone can confirm that Elincia will yell out "I'll be all alone" at any time Geoffrey dies outside of 2-E then I'd be more willing to call the marriage anything but one-sided. Failing that, there isn't anything in either game that seems to show Elincia's feelings are on the right level for what the rest of you say.

"You fight too hard and take too many risks to protect me in combat."

she does all that in their PoR support because Geoffrey is apparently acting like an idiot. Apparently Ike is perfectly capable of filling her with confidence that he'll remain alive when protecting her. Geoffrey? Apparently not. Elincia is concerned he'll get himself killed.

Ike x Elincia A support:

Ike: You've grown strong, Princess.

Elincia: That's only because I had such a great role model.

I think she's quite confident that Ike will have no such trouble.

edit: alternatively, Ike isn't bothering to go overboard in protecting her because he has confidence in her ability to stay alive without him taking unnecessary risks to prevent someone from attacking her. Either way, she is filled with confidence that Ike won't get himself killed.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[ReformBlade]

I was calling you insane for saying popularity has no effect on making decisions based on popularity. That made no sense at all. Your post had zero to do with her most recent post.

Focus on our words, not your feelings about previous posts.

"And yet you think the fact that it is popular somehow doesn't help that view? Are you insane?"

I made it pretty clear why I was calling you crazy. How can something being popular not help the viewpoint that the developers may make another game that follows the more popular side? You can question that they would be willing to follow the popular pairing, I wouldn't call you insane for that. I called you crazy because you didn't do that. You basically said "being popular doesn't help your view that Ike x Elincia may get chosen in another game for being popular". What? How does that make any sense to you? I would never call you crazy for liking Geoffrey x Elincia more than Ike x Elincia. Whatever one you like is fine. Notice I never called Cynthia or speedwagon crazy. What gets to me is how you treated her last post. That's what makes me question your sanity, or at least your objectiveness. You completely ignored her entire point in order to attack her. You tried to make her look stupid by ignoring what she was actually getting at.

Answer me this: how can being popular not help the view that they'd make Ike x Elincia in another game if they want to go with a more popular pairing? Would it help her point if they were unpopular? Is that even remotely logical?

My problem is why the hell was this even brought up? It's pretty clear that FE (IS) doesn't give a crap about the fanbase, otherwise we'd have gotten FE4/5esque games by now, so no, popularity is not really that influential for them. Plus, why was the hypothetical future even brought up in the first place? THAT makes no sense. We're talking about Ike, Elincia, and Geoffrey. Who loves who more and whatnot, bringing up the future holds no grounds, which is why I'm where I'm at, it makes 0 sense to bring up the future when we're talking about the now when it has no bearing on the now (I'd also love to see why Elincia would even bother giving up Geoffrey for Ike, outside of a Geo death scene, which would just be bullshit fanfiction at that point).

The point you either aren't seeing or keep twisting around (IDK, it could be neither or both for all I care) is the fact that she MARRIED. GEOFFREY. A woman as strong as her, physically, mentally, and emotionally wouldn't just 'give in' and settle for someone she views as the lesser lover. That makes no sense, and neither of you have actually provided a good reason to explain this. Ike didn't immediately leave Tellius as soon as Ashera was defeated, he left after Tellius was stable again. I doubt that'd leave Elincia no time to confess her 'undying' love to her one and only Ike.

Case A: Elincia x Ike.

I don't see Geoffrey getting all jealous, in fact, he wasn't even jealous in the first game where it was incredibly obvious that she was pretty smitten with Ike. There'd be no problems with Elincia marrying Ike, you know, the godslayer and hero of Tellius. He's well respected by EVERYONE (except Shinon, but he's a baby who can't let anything go, and I doubt he'd by the deal breaker in any of this)

Case B: Elincia x Geoffrey.

I don't really need to explain this one, as it's canon and nobody in-game expresses any sort of doubt about it (quite the opposite). I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt Elincia would've been pressured into a marriage by anyone as EB said (Why would Renning do that? He's not a dick like that...)

Sorry, not buying your 'she settled for Geo' theory.

As for me 'attacking' EB, I just find her ideas (and yours as well, BTW) regarding this to be bad. I don't know her or who she is, how can I be attacking her when I don't know her? Sure I'm vulgar, I know that, but I'm not getting personal here, at least not to the level of alarm. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, OK? Nothing personal.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SlaveBlade

[Narga_Rocks]

My problem is why the hell was this even brought up? It's pretty clear that FE (IS) doesn't give a crap about the fanbase, otherwise we'd have gotten FE4/5esque games by now, so no, popularity is not really that influential for them. Plus, why was the hypothetical future even brought up in the first place? THAT makes no sense. We're talking about Ike, Elincia, and Geoffrey. Who loves who more and whatnot, bringing up the future holds no grounds, which is why I'm where I'm at, it makes 0 sense to bring up the future when we're talking about the now when it has no bearing on the now (I'd also love to see why Elincia would even bother giving up Geoffrey for Ike, outside of a Geo death scene, which would just be bullshit fanfiction at that point).

And if you'd said that in the first place I wouldn't have called you insane or seeking to make her look stupid.

The point you either aren't seeing or keep twisting around (IDK, it could be neither or both for all I care) is the fact that she MARRIED. GEOFFREY. A woman as strong as her, physically, mentally, and emotionally wouldn't just 'give in' and settle for someone she views as the lesser lover. That makes no sense, and neither of you have actually provided a good reason to explain this.

so you basically have the standpoint that marriage = love on both sides and whatever else may have happened in the rest of the two games does nothing to disprove this notion? They could've made her marry sothe and it sounds like you'd still be saying "getting married proves they love each other" as if the rest of the scenes are irrelevant.

Ike didn't immediately leave Tellius as soon as Ashera was defeated, he left after Tellius was stable again. I doubt that'd leave Elincia no time to confess her 'undying' love to her one and only Ike.

Case A: Elincia x Ike.

I don't see Geoffrey getting all jealous, in fact, he wasn't even jealous in the first game where it was incredibly obvious that she was pretty smitten with Ike. There'd be no problems with Elincia marrying Ike, you know, the godslayer and hero of Tellius. He's well respected by EVERYONE (except Shinon, but he's a baby who can't let anything go, and I doubt he'd by the deal breaker in any of this)

Case B: Elincia x Geoffrey.

I don't really need to explain this one, as it's canon and nobody in-game expresses any sort of doubt about it (quite the opposite). I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt Elincia would've been pressured into a marriage by anyone as EB said (Why would Renning do that? He's not a dick like that...)

Sorry, not buying your 'she settled for Geo' theory.

Well, when 2 entire games give no indication she feels anything more than friendship for the guy, there has to be something more to it. Forgive me for not blindly accepting anything that is said in the last two minutes of the game. If the developers were meaning to show that she loves him like he loves her, they sure didn't do a good job of it.

As for me 'attacking' EB, I just find her ideas (and yours as well, BTW) regarding this to be bad. I don't know her or who she is, how can I be attacking her when I don't know her? Sure I'm vulgar, I know that, but I'm not getting personal here, at least not to the level of alarm. If I offended anyone, I'm sorry, OK? Nothing personal.

I have no idea if she would be offended by it. I'm just saying your post made no sense considering what you were quoting.

[Anacybele]

Narga is right for sure on one thing. Sometimes I feel you are making me look stupid when I've put incredible effort into my research on whether or not my ideas regarding Ike and Elincia ending up together after all despite her marriage to Geoffrey are even possible, let alone likely. And I mean this regardless of how valid my evidence is.

Another thing, I also agree that Elincia never seemed to be interested in Geoffrey the way he is likely to be interested in her. I've viewed their support convos over and over in PoR. The love is only coming out of Geoffrey as far as I can tell. Elincia willing to strip him of his knighthood could be interpreted more ways than just "oh that must mean she loves him back!" She could be saying that since they've already got Ike and a whole army out there saving Crimea, why should Geoffrey put his neck on the line? Elincia does care about him as a trusted retainer and brother figure and I can't see her caring about him anymore than that. And I certainly wouldn't send more men out there on the battlefield than needed, especially if one of those was a friend I grew up with.

However, Elincia often likes to finish her conversations and sometimes just lines with "Oh, Ike..." and "My lord Ike..." and she even did the same once in RD by saying "My noble Ike..." in her death quote in part 4 endgame. She flirts with him and obviously enjoys private conversations with him as well. Ike seems to enjoy the alone time himself too. And he even freaking insulted the Begnion APOSTLE in her honor for heaven's sake and that has to take guts. Ike also slipped and called her Elincia, indicating that he cares not that she's royalty. There is also what I pointed out about Ike's reactions to Shinon saying he's in love with Elincia while drunk and Ranulf barging in on Ike and Elincia while they were having alone time.

Even before supporting Ike/Elincia, when I played RD and found out Geoffrey and Elincia married in the end I was like "What? Where did that come from? When were they ever in love?" Granted, this WAS before I ever did their supports in PoR, but even then, as I said, only Geoffrey seemed to be smitten with her at the most. The ending was out of the blue, like Narga said.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[ReformBlade]

so you basically have the standpoint that marriage = love on both sides and whatever else may have happened in the rest of the two games does nothing to disprove this notion? They could've made her marry sothe and it sounds like you'd still be saying "getting married proves they love each other" as if the rest of the scenes are irrelevant.

Well, when 2 entire games give no indication she feels anything more than friendship for the guy, there has to be something more to it. Forgive me for not blindly accepting anything that is said in the last two minutes of the game. If the developers were meaning to show that she loves him like he loves her, they sure didn't do a good job of it.

Marriage between Elincia and Geoffrey = love, yes. Don't put words in my mouth and say I support X x Y = absolute love regardless of how retarded it sounds. If Leo went and married Vika, hell yes I'd say that came out of nowhere, but to say Geo x Elincia came out of nowhere is pretty ballsy.

I don't know about you, but she seemed really detached from Ike compared to the first game. Yes, she liked him quite a bit, but that was because he was there for her and he is just as old as her and yada yada yada. I agree that there was definitely something between em in the first game, but when I take both games into account, I see it as nothing more than a typical schoolgirl crush on Ike. Why wouldn't she like him? He's cute, handsome, capable, caring, trustworthy, etc... However, I believe this was because he was everything she wanted to be. Capable, caring, a level head, a good decision maker, all that jazz. Here comes RD where she does eventually learn how to stand on her own two feet and take the reins and start doing things properly. Now, she has no need of Ike who is now just a pretty face albeit a very good friend at this point (Still reliable and stuffs too, etc...)

You see it as love, I see it as being clingy out of necessity. She grew out of it and went with a person who actually loves her and knows her and would do any damn thing possible to make her happy and is practically just as capable (storywise) as Ike.

Also, I'm gonna take Eternal Bond's advice and stop now, this is getting dumb. Neither side is gonna waver on this issue.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SlaveBlade

[Anacybele]

I see you completely disregarded anything I've said in this thread about marriage not always being done out of love. I still say the choice to get married was likely influenced by the rumors and probably Renning's views as well. Lucia may have also liked the idea. And I doubt Elincia would reject it and end up making many people who respect her unhappy, especially after the Crimean Rebellion. And since Ike is gone, as I've said, Geoffrey is her next best choice for a husband. Now if only a few people supported the idea of her being with Geoffrey while she really loved Ike, she definitely would go with what she wants. She's not weak.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[ReformBlade]

I see you completely disregarded anything I've said in this thread about marriage not always being done out of love.

She's not weak.

Contradicting statements here... She's not weak, yet she doesn't marry her #1 guy because it would 'disappoint' others... Please explain this. I don't believe for a second that anyone would actually have been disappointed if she went for Ike instead of Geo, and why would they suggest she marry him? Ugh, this just doesn't make sense. I realize these are just thoughts and theories but do explain, as I'm obviously not connecting any dots here with your thoughts.

Edit: Also, I haven't disregarded everything you've said about marriage not = love, I'm saying look at the context.

Childhood friend.

He loves her genuinely.

It's a medieval fantasy Japanese game.

Those heavily indicate that a marriage would = love in these types of settings.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SlaveBlade

[Chalis]

My two cents here:

Elincia was a girl in Path of Radiance that developed a crush on Ike and then grew out of it in pursuing greater things that were more important to her like RUNNING A COUNTRY. In Radiant Dawn, nowhere does it show in main dialogue (or the 'psuedo-supports' for that matter) that Elincia has those feelings anymore and in neither game did Ike reciprocate them.

Ike did things out of his nature to help out people that need it and Elincia admired that. This is the extent of Path of Radiance.

There was never a mutual feeling and she never really confessed. Things like this happen all the time in real life, where the feeling just dies and life goes on.

Honestly, all this talk about death quotes and arranged marriages. Geoffrey is a minor character so why the hell would it matter if he died and no one noticed.

Take it like it is when it comes to endings, by the by. She doesn't have to marry Geoffrey, but Ike always leaves.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Reverse Trap

[Narga_Rocks]

Marriage between Elincia and Geoffrey = love, yes. Don't put words in my mouth and say I support X x Y = absolute love regardless of how retarded it sounds. If Leo went and married Vika, hell yes I'd say that came out of nowhere, but to say Geo x Elincia came out of nowhere is pretty ballsy.

And I see just as much evidence of Elincia x Geoffrey as I do of Leo x Vika before the ending so I don't see the difference. Well, I might want to pick some other pairing that are actually friends throughout the game and chat in order to make the parallel more evident, but the point remains. To me, Elincia x Geoffrey came out of left field. In another stadium.

You see it as love, I see it as being clingy out of necessity. She grew out of it and went with a person who actually loves her and knows her and would do any damn thing possible to make her happy and is practically just as capable (storywise) as Ike.

I'm not sure he's even as capable stroywise as Ike, to be honest. Ike deals the last blow to Ashera, among other things. And you just gave a reason for her to marry someone she doesn't love. she knows Geoffrey would do anything for her. It's like a free slave, actually. I think we all know who will be "wearing the pants" in that relationship. It makes sense to settle for someone you know would do anything for you if you can't have the person you love most for whatever reason.

Anyway, if Geoffrey was the younger one you'd have a stronger point with the childhood friend business. I'm pretty sure he's gotta be at least 5 years older than her. The cliche does not involve the younger female being the calm collected one while the older male is the one going gaga over her. The cliche is the other way around. Elincia gives no indication of that type of infatuation over him, making me seriously doubt that this follows the cliche.

[ReformBlade]

And I see just as much evidence of Elincia x Geoffrey as I do of Leo x Vika before the ending so I don't see the difference. Well, I might want to pick some other pairing that are actually friends throughout the game and chat in order to make the parallel more evident, but the point remains. To me, Elincia x Geoffrey came out of left field. In another stadium.

I'm not sure he's even as capable stroywise as Ike, to be honest. Ike deals the last blow to Ashera, among other things. And you just gave a reason for her to marry someone she doesn't love. she knows Geoffrey would do anything for her. It's like a free slave, actually. I think we all know who will be "wearing the pants" in that relationship. It makes sense to settle for someone you know would do anything for you if you can't have the person you love most for whatever reason.

Anyway, if Geoffrey was the younger one you'd have a stronger point with the childhood friend business. I'm pretty sure he's gotta be at least 5 years older than her. The cliche does not involve the younger female being the calm collected one while the older male is the one going gaga over her. The cliche is the other way around. Elincia gives no indication of that type of infatuation over him, making me seriously doubt that this follows the cliche.

Oh for crying out loud... *sigh* No, it isn't the exact cliche word for word and all of that, but it is STILL the cliche, with a slight twist. I see no other way of explaining this.

Out of another field? No offense, but are you blind? To be honest here, I fully expected an ending with him and Elincia (also one with Ike, but that didn't happen, and I can accept that it didn'y happen and see why it didn't happen). And how does being a childhood friend have any less of an impact when Geo is a bit older? She's still been around him for her whole childhood (assumption here, I don't know exact details on when they first met).

And as for Ike having to deal teh final blow, I see that as everyone suddenly favoring Ike, IE a gameplay mechanic. I see no reason why someone like any of teh Royals could not have completely decimated Ashera with Yune's blessing. If you're going to pull the 'but it had 2 blessings on it' crap, then Alondite should also have been able to be a choice. As it stands, it was a poor excuse to make Ike seem more important than he really was.

And I love how you're so quick to beat up Elincia's character when it's very convenient for you. 'LOLZ FREE SLAVE' coming from 'She doesn't wanna see him harmed so she kicks him out'...

[Anacybele]

Contradicting statements here... She's not weak, yet she doesn't marry her #1 guy because it would 'disappoint' others... Please explain this. I don't believe for a second that anyone would actually have been disappointed if she went for Ike instead of Geo, and why would they suggest she marry him? Ugh, this just doesn't make sense. I realize these are just thoughts and theories but do explain, as I'm obviously not connecting any dots here with your thoughts.

Edit: Also, I haven't disregarded everything you've said about marriage not = love, I'm saying look at the context.

Childhood friend.

He loves her genuinely.

It's a medieval fantasy Japanese game.

Those heavily indicate that a marriage would = love in these types of settings.

I fail to see how I was contradicting myself. But I guess I have to put my point in simpler terms for you.

A few to some people agreeing with the idea of Elincia marrying Geoffrey = Elincia wouldn't care and choose Ike instead.

Many to almost everyone wanting her with Geoffrey, including Lucia and Renning = Elincia would care because she'd disappoint all those people who respect and care about her. They want what's best for her. I believe this is most likely the case.

I also agree Geoffrey seems a bit old for her. He's obviously at least a few years older than Ike and Ike and Elincia appear to be close in age.

[ReformBlade]

I fail to see how I was contradicting myself. But I guess I have to put my point in simpler terms for you.

A few to some people agreeing with the idea of Elincia marrying Geoffrey = Elincia wouldn't care and choose Ike instead.

Many to almost everyone wanting her with Geoffrey, including Lucia and Renning = Elincia would care because she'd disappoint all those people who respect and care about her. They want what's best for her. I believe this is most likely the case.

I also agree Geoffrey seems a bit old for her. He's obviously at least a few years older than Ike and Ike and Elincia appear to be close in age.

And to that I say you're contradicting her character. Yes, she might disappoint a few people if she declined it, but if it's not what she wants, who the hell are they to pressure her? She. Is. Not. Weak. Not like that anyway. She's not a person who does things solely to please others. I'm sure she'd like to please everyone but... you know what? No. I've said my piece on the matter. And as for Geo being a bit older, when both are 20 and older, does it really matter? You're stretching yet again...

[Anacybele]

And to that I say you're contradicting her character. Yes, she might disappoint a few people if she declined it, but if it's not what she wants, who the hell are they to pressure her? She. Is. Not. Weak. Not like that anyway. She's not a person who does things solely to please others. I'm sure she'd like to please everyone but... you know what? No. I've said my piece on the matter. And as for Geo being a bit older, when both are 20 and older, does it really matter? You're stretching yet again...

Oh my fucking god. You. Are. Still. Missing. My. Point. I know damn well Elincia is not that weak. That's why she'd only abide by her people's wishes if all her closest friends, all the damned nobles and many other people wanted her with Geoffrey instead of Ike. A few people, even entire villages wouldn't matter to her. But everyone together would.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Eternal Bond

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh for crying out loud... *sigh* No, it isn't the exact cliche word for word and all of that, but it is STILL the cliche, with a slight twist. I see no other way of explaining this.

You are ignoring my main point. You'd think she'd show it a little more but she doesn't. If I'm to believe this childhood friend destiny business, I'd like her to seem at least a little bit in love with him.

Out of another field? No offense, but are you blind? To be honest here, I fully expected an ending with him and Elincia (also one with Ike, but that didn't happen, and I can accept that it didn'y happen and see why it didn't happen). And how does being a childhood friend have any less of an impact when Geo is a bit older? She's still been around him for her whole childhood (assumption here, I don't know exact details on when they first met).

Well, I can't exactly say I'm surprised with them giving those two an ending, to be honest. I'm aware that Intelligent systems is capable of weird decisions that are predictable from cliche's even if they don't seem to follow anything that has happened in the story previously. As I said before, if they were trying to show a two-way relationship, they did a horrible job of it. Analytically, based solely on what happened during the game, it came from nowhere. That doesn't mean it wasn't predictable.

And as for Ike having to deal teh final blow, I see that as everyone suddenly favoring Ike, IE a gameplay mechanic. I see no reason why someone like any of teh Royals could not have completely decimated Ashera with Yune's blessing. If you're going to pull the 'but it had 2 blessings on it' crap, then Alondite should also have been able to be a choice. As it stands, it was a poor excuse to make Ike seem more important than he really was.

Um, no. Alondite being a near duplicate of Ragnell and yet only Ragnell working for this is clearly story, not gameplay. How is it a gameplay mechanic? They go into this whole story-mode chat about Ike dealing the final blow. That's clearly a storymode issue. By the story, Ike is the only one that can kill her. Logically, he shouldn't be, but the story makes him the only one. Also he's the one that the laguz flock to (aside from Nailah who seems to like Micaiah well enough). Ike is the "leader". story-wise, Geoffrey is clearly not "just as capable".

And I love how you're so quick to beat up Elincia's character when it's very convenient for you. 'LOLZ FREE SLAVE' coming from 'She doesn't wanna see him harmed so she kicks him out'...

It's not just that he's a free slave. He's clearly devoted to her. she wouldn't necessarily abuse that, but it would be comforting to know that he cares about you so much. Maybe eventually it would lead to love, but they give no indication during the game that she loves him. People in real life actually do marry someone they don't love for a sense of security or something similar.

And how is it inconsistent/a contradiction for Elincia to do two different things under two different circumstances?

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[ReformBlade]

Oh my fucking god. You. Are. Still. Missing. My. Point. I know damn well Elincia is not that weak. That's why she'd only abide by her people's wishes if all her closest friends, all the damned nobles and many other people wanted her with Geoffrey instead of Ike. A few people, even entire villages wouldn't matter to her. But everyone together would.

And you're daft if you honestly believe EVERYONE would suggest Geo, a regular schmo (comparatively), over Ike, the FUCKING HERO OF TELLIUS... Do you not see the absurdity of this!?

As for Narga, she does show love towards, you just interpret it drastically differently. You keep saying it came from nowhere, and that my friend has got to be denial. I fully expected Geo/Ike x Elincia, but lo and behold, we didn't get that, and I can see why...

And I find it very silly that you actually believe Ike was the only one who could possibly hurt Ashera. Every other unit was perfectly capable, but Yune decided Ike because he was the MC. I don't remember any factual evidence put forth as to why Ike was the one and only, as every Royal far out-combats him and fighting Ashera has EVERYTHING to do with combat ability. If you've got actual evidence, please put it forward.

And how isn't Geo as capable? He's led armies, he's not biased, just like Ike (basically Ike's only real qualifications).

Edit: It's contradiction when she's acting OoC like that. You know full well why she didn't want him to go risk his life for her, since if he died she would've been heartbroken...

Edited May 18, 2010 by SlaveBlade

[-Cynthia-]

Many to almost everyone wanting her with Geoffrey, including Lucia and Renning = Elincia would care because she'd disappoint all those people who respect and care about her. They want what's best for her. I believe this is most likely the case.

Where's the evidence of this? Geoffrey liking Elincia is not openly discussed among other characters (save the runors comment at the beginning of RD). Perhaps Lucia and/or Renning really dislike the idea, we really don't know. To cite them as reasons for Elincia marrying Geoffrey as non-love reasons is pure speculation. Besides, even I they were to "recommend' Geoffrey, Elincia is clearly able to make her own decisions. The beginning of Part 2 of RD suggests that a relationship between Geoffrey and Elincia might be somewhat scandalous and unpopular with the nobles, but lo and behold she marriages him regardless. I'm not seeing how marrying Geoffrey is somehow a politically better move than marryign the Hero of Tellius.

I also agree Geoffrey seems a bit old for her. He's obviously at least a few years older than Ike and Ike and Elincia appear to be close in age.

FEwiki puts Ike at 20 in RD, and Geoffrey and Elincia in their 10s in PoR and 20s in RD. At most, Geoffrey is two years older than Elincia, which isn't a very significant age gap.

I guess ELincia marrying Geoffrey for emotional security isn't totslly off the wall, but she and Ike still clearly don't love each other.

Edited May 18, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Narga_Rocks]

And you're daft if you honestly believe EVERYONE would suggest Geo, a regular schmo (comparatively), over Ike, the FUCKING HERO OF TELLIUS... Do you not see the absurdity of this!?

Meh. It's possible. One option has Ike leaving due to the marriage, which doesn't explain the marriage. The other has Ike leaving before the marriage, explaining the lack of better options, but not his leaving. There is perhaps an explanation for both at once. Either way, they could've still suggested the Geoffrey thing.

As for Narga, she does show love towards, you just interpret it drastically differently. You keep saying it came from nowhere, and that my friend has got to be denial. I fully expected Geo/Ike x Elincia, but lo and behold, we didn't get that, and I can see why...

How about an example I haven't ripped apart logically?

And I find it very silly that you actually believe Ike was the only one who could possibly hurt Ashera. Every other unit was perfectly capable, but Yune decided Ike because he was the MC. I don't remember any factual evidence put forth as to why Ike was the one and only, as every Royal far out-combats him and fighting Ashera has EVERYTHING to do with combat ability. If you've got actual evidence, please put it forward.

Designers chose Ike when they could've let anyone do it. Clearly, the story makes Ike the only one capable of killing Ashera. The fact it makes no logical sense is irrelevant to the story-line. Think about how many RPGs allow you to power level to 99 and then you can go to some place with a bunch of weak enemies and the story pops up and says "oh, we can't go there, we'll die". You have to get over the fact that Alondite exists and the Royals have more mt than Ike. It's not relevant. The story dictates that only Ike can KO Ashera.

And how isn't Geo as capable? He's led armies, he's not biased, just like Ike (basically Ike's only real qualifications).

Well, the "army" he led was getting its butt kicked in PoR and Ike had to step in and save him. He led the royal guards in RD and took them into a trap (though admittedly Elincia and Lucia didn't realize it was a trap, either). Ike doesn't screw up this bad story-wise.

Edit: It's contradiction when she's acting OoC like that. You know full well why she didn't want him to go risk his life for her, since if he died she would've been heartbroken...

I see you are again ignoring what I've pointed out. I shouldn't bother but I'll give it another shot. One more try for you to stop being stubborn and blind.

"You fight too hard and take too many risks to protect me in combat."

Ike wasn't being an idiot. Ike wasn't needlessly risking death. Clearly, Elincia is fully confident she won't die if Geoffrey stops being an idiot. But Geoffrey keeps doing stupid things to prevent Elincia from getting attacked. Maybe he's running through battle to get to her if she's about to be attacked and letting random soldiers get free swings while he runs to stop someone attacking her. Who knows what idiotic things he was doing. Ike did none of that. she had no reason to ask Ike to sit on the sidelines because Ike wasn't being an idiot and nearly getting himself killed to prevent her from getting attacked. Ike was fighting well. Geoffrey was fighting badly because Elincia was on the field and Geoffrey loses all sense when she's around. Clearly asking him to stop fighting but not asking Ike to do the same isn't some indication that she will be more "heartbroken" to lose Geoffrey than Ike.

Who's reading more into things now? Why can't you just take it at face value? Elincia clearly states why she tried to get Geoffrey to stay off the field. It has nothing to do with what you are claiming. I'm sure if Ike was being an idiot that Elincia would've said the same to him or anyone being similarly stupid.

What does she say with Ike?

Ike: You've grown strong, Princess.

Elincia: That's only because I had such a great role model.

Elincia is not needing to be worried about Ike's continued survival. If that wasn't the case, she would probably tell him to stop taking insane risks to protect her, too.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[-Cynthia-]

Another thing, I also agree that Elincia never seemed to be interested in Geoffrey the way he is likely to be interested in her. I've viewed their support convos over and over in PoR. The love is only coming out of Geoffrey as far as I can tell. Elincia willing to strip him of his knighthood could be interpreted more ways than just "oh that must mean she loves him back!" She could be saying that since they've already got Ike and a whole army out there saving Crimea, why should Geoffrey put his neck on the line? Elincia does care about him as a trusted retainer and brother figure and I can't see her caring about him anymore than that. And I certainly wouldn't send more men out there on the battlefield than needed, especially if one of those was a friend I grew up with.

Man, you guys just hate to give Geoffrey any credit. "Elincia was going to take away his knighthood because he sucks so bad and is unecessay olol". Except that the support conversation clearly states her reasons.

Elincia: I know you think I should stay at camp and rest on silken pillows without suiting up for battle. But... There's no way I could stand... Stand seeing someone so dear to me die just beyond my grasp. So...now you know why I asked this of you.

Geoffrey: I don't know if you realize all that you've done for the soldiers. Do you see how you have raised the spirits of the Crimean soldiers since you began fighting alongside them? Their princess herself leads the charge! She doesn't ask the soldiers to risk their lives without risking her own. They adore you. And that is why we win our battles. They fight with a ferocity no other force could possibly match.They will win at any cost.

Elincia: ...

Geoffrey: I admit I have been fighting recklessly. ...I did so knowing you were near me. I knew you'd be by my side if I were gravely wounded.

Elincia: Yet... You feel me a burden.

Geoffrey: I can't imagine fighting without you anymore. If you do hold my life dear, please keep fighting.Lead us to victory!

Elincia: Oh, Geoffrey.I'm so sorry I brought you so much torment. I misunderstood you. I am...so immature.

Geoffrey: I disobeyed your direct orders. That's no badge of honor, either.

Elincia: I'm sure I'll keep causing you troubles...but please...never leave my side, Geoffrey.

Geoffrey: Princess Elincia...My life and blade are yours.

There is nothing in there about how Geoffrey is unecessary because Ike exists, only how she doesn't want to lose him. She never wants Geoffrey to leave her side, and he promises to be hers.

Also, I am honestly marveling about how you can discount Elincia saying she never wants Geoffrey to leave her as obviously just friends, with no sort of romantic implication whatsoever, but she tells Ike to look over Crimea and that's obviously love?

And Elincia calling Ike "lord Ike" means she loves him, but Ike calling Elincia just Elincia means he loves her? I hope you see the contradiction here.

[ReformBlade]

How about an example I haven't ripped apart logically?

Designers chose Ike when they could've let anyone do it. Clearly, the story makes Ike the only one capable of killing Ashera. The fact it makes no logical sense is irrelevant to the story-line. Think about how many RPGs allow you to power level to 99 and then you can go to some place with a bunch of weak enemies and the story pops up and says "oh, we can't go there, we'll die". You have to get over the fact that Alondite exists and the Royals have more mt than Ike. It's not relevant. The story dictates that only Ike can KO Ashera.

Well, the "army" he led was getting its butt kicked in PoR and Ike had to step in and save him. He led the royal guards in RD and took them into a trap (though admittedly Elincia and Lucia didn't realize it was a trap, either). Ike doesn't screw up this bad story-wise.

I see you are again ignoring what I've pointed out. I shouldn't bother but I'll give it another shot. One more try for you to stop being stubborn and blind.

"You fight too hard and take too many risks to protect me in combat."

Ike wasn't being an idiot. Ike wasn't needlessly risking death. Clearly, Elincia is fully confident she won't die if Geoffrey stops being an idiot. But Geoffrey keeps doing stupid things to prevent Elincia from getting attacked. Maybe he's running through battle to get to her if she's about to be attacked and letting random soldiers get free swings while he runs to stop someone attacking her. Who knows what idiotic things he was doing. Ike did none of that. she had no reason to ask Ike to sit on the sidelines because Ike wasn't being an idiot and nearly getting himself killed to prevent her from getting attacked. Ike was fighting well. Geoffrey was fighting badly because Elincia was on the field and Geoffrey loses all sense when she's around. Clearly asking him to stop fighting but not asking Ike to do the same isn't some indication that she will be more "heartbroken" to lose Geoffrey than Ike.

Who's reading more into things now? Why can't you just take it at face value? Elincia clearly states why she tried to get Geoffrey to stay off the field. It has nothing to do with what you are claiming. I'm sure if Ike was being an idiot that Elincia would've said the same to him or anyone being similarly stupid.

What does she say with Ike?

Elincia is not needing to be worried about Ike's continued survival. If that wasn't the case, she would probably tell him to stop taking insane risks to protect her, too.

*sigh*

1: Your logic isn't sound and is based on theories that cannot be proven. Amazing.

2: You didn't answer the damn question. Where does it factually say only Ike can beat Ashera? I'm not talking about shit where everyone's like, "Oh, I believe in you", no, I'm talking stuff where it says only Ragnell/Ike can beat her. Oh right, nowhere, they just arbitrarily make it an Ike only thing.

3: Why does everyone think he leads the army unwittingly into a trap? Am I the only one who saw that dialog that shows he knew it was a trap but he decided to lay a trap for them in advance? Christ! You see him talking to Lucia about this stuff before the mission!

4: Ah, wishing for Geo to stop taking risks isn't a sign of love or at least endearment, but ZOMG holding hands and saying 'My noble Ike' is a clear indication of undying love... I see... You two are just interpreting things weirdly.

[JudgmentLeek]

I like Geo, he has blue hair

[Dr. Tarrasque]

How about an example I haven't ripped apart logically?

I wouldn't say you did but I won't get into detail either. Point being, if you think I'm not responding because your arguments win, that's not it. This is going around in circles and too many of the arguments are riding so much on opinion that it's just a war of opinions. It's pretty much becoming like arguing Lugh vs Lilina to Kainmaster.

Elincia clearly states why she tried to get Geoffrey to stay off the field. It has nothing to do with what you are claiming.

This could be an overreaction on her part or as already stated, concern for the guy since she does care about him. You don't know for sure how accurate her judgment of Geoffrey's fighting really is (which is safer to assume as poor rather than good) and if she's that concerned for how the people are fighting and not specifically concerned about Geoffrey as you seem to be implying, I would imagine she'd talk to the kids in the army considering how... they're kids with little experience while she's aware that Geoffrey is experienced in combat?

Edited May 19, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Thekiller37]

Hey, uh, its just a pairing.... Ike/geofferyxelincia is a pretty generic one too... neither side is gonna give in to the other one, both are too unaccepting to know when their wrong, so respectively...its better to put this generic quarrel to the side.

[JudgmentLeek]

I like LyreXRanulf :3

[Narga_Rocks]

*sigh*

1: Your logic isn't sound and is based on theories that cannot be proven. Amazing.

I see a distinct lack of examples here... Guess deep down you know I'm right about this much.

2: You didn't answer the damn question. Where does it factually say only Ike can beat Ashera? I'm not talking about shit where everyone's like, "Oh, I believe in you", no, I'm talking stuff where it says only Ragnell/Ike can beat her. Oh right, nowhere, they just arbitrarily make it an Ike only thing.

And the story makes it only work out that way. Yune only gives him the power. That's right, they "arbitrarily" decided that only Ike can beat Ashera. Just like the arbitrarily make all the other storyline decisions. This isn't helping you. What, do you need a sign with neon letters? It's not that difficult to figure out that Ike is the only one that can beat her. You want me to point to that neon sign. It doesn't exist, nor does it need to exist, so I fail to see the point of answering that question. It's misleading. You are being like those lawyers that ask questions that have nothing to do with the matter at hand but are prejudicial in nature and serve only to sway the jury if they can't see through it. Your question, and the answer we all know, is meaningless towards my point. The story makes Ike the only one capable of beating her. Therefore, in the Tellius world, only Ike can deal the final blow to Ashera. simple as that.

3: Why does everyone think he leads the army unwittingly into a trap? Am I the only one who saw that dialog that shows he knew it was a trap but he decided to lay a trap for them in advance? Christ! You see him talking to Lucia about this stuff before the mission!

sigh. The trap I'm talking about isn't the one in 2-3. It's the whole "get the army out of the capital and attack Elincia then" business. Not the "walk into an ambush in the other guy's castle". I can respect that action. Traps are sometimes things you just spring regardless because you want to end things. There are plenty of books in which the characters do that and I can respect them for it. But Ludveck wasn't even there anymore. In the actions I can respect, they don't leave some other location at risk of being attacked. Especially one that has the more important people sitting there.

4: Ah, wishing for Geo to stop taking risks isn't a sign of love or at least endearment, but ZOMG holding hands and saying 'My noble Ike' is a clear indication of undying love... I see... You two are just interpreting things weirdly.

Ahem. Wanting him to stop taking stupid risks. "needlessly jeopardize". There is no point of him doing that and they are friends. Why would she want him to keep putting himself at needless risk? I told you already, if any other person she cared about (Ike, Lucia, Bastian) was being a dolt I'm sure she would've said something to them, too. The fact that she didn't is a sign of their competence, not a sign of Elincia's feelings.

And Elincia does appreciate that Geoffrey (in fe9, anyway) is a competent warrior and when he's not being an idiot is a helpful soldier and loyal bodyguard. And the fact he'll take needless risks indicates to her she'll take the needed ones, too. Hence it's good to keep him around. I'm sure she feels something, though. He is a close friend. It's just not an automatic indication of love. she does have an "oh Ike" moment in her A support with him. The way that's written seems to indicate she is affected emotionally by his words. How strongly? Well, that's up to the reader, I suppose. But she's not lacking in feelings for either of them.

...and doesn't Ike have blue hair?

And yeah, maybe you could argue she should talk to the kids, too. However, I suspect they are at least being cautious and appear careful in battle. Geoffrey seems to recklessly endanger himself to give Elincia protection she doesn't even need. I'm sure Geoffrey is more likely to live than they are if he's not "needlessly jeopardizing" his life. But you do need people to fight and she's aware of this. she wants to win but wants minimal casualties. And certainly doesn't want her childhood friend dying needlessly.

I like Gatrie + Tree. Maybe Gatrie will find the Entwives.

[JudgmentLeek]

What about a game pairing? like "Tales of"X"Fire Emblem"...hmm, that would be a nice game.

I also like Lyre's furry tail