Resource Allocation Topic

[Interceptor]

Agreed. Haar's biggest problem is crit, not the tripling of lolmt from Thunder tomes. Although that presents the problem of making DB's forge funds in 1-4 a lot tighter than it would be ordinarily, someone's forge might actually have to wait until 1-5 instead.

[grandjackal]

Agreed. Haar's biggest problem is crit, not the tripling of lolmt from Thunder tomes. Although that presents the problem of making DB's forge funds in 1-4 a lot tighter than it would be ordinarily, someone's forge might actually have to wait until 1-5 instead.

Ohhhhhhh, suggesting Meg's Fortune transferred to the mercs so Haar can avoid insta-blicks (Since I know that even with Nullify, those crits bone him pretty bad thanks to low Res). Well, that's a good one, though yeah, Fortune's cash going poof is sort of annoying.

Will edit Meg's Fortune for that.

However, there's still the question. If that's the case, who gets Nullify? Or do we just sell it?

Edited June 2, 2010 by Master Tang

[dondon151]

Well, sold, I guess.

[grandjackal]

Well, Marcia could always keep it, since I know there are archers in 3-9.

...Well, it's better than nothing.

[Interceptor]

Marcia is an option for 3-9, and it's also good for the hawks or the other pegs. Removing the crossbow threat is still a big deal.

[Junkhead]

1-P Dracoshield

I give it to Micaiah, it might not turn out of very good use since she still gets 1RKO'd alot, but it will help when her HP/Def start growing. Giving it to Nolan isn't too useful, especially when he starts paying off in Part 3 most of all.

1-2 Energy Drop

I just save it for either Mist or Heather. But that's just me. As you pointed out, Eddie and Jill are good options, but there's also Nolan, who gets will avoid getting doubled alot while using a Steel Axe.

1-3 Discipline. Not really craved for, but there are a few noteworthy uses for it.

I never really got this skill, but if I did, I'd use it on Laura thanks to her dreadful light rank at promotion.

1-4 Seraph Robe.

I missed this one, also. I'll have to say it's recommendable for Micaiah here, her durability is worse earlygame, the other characters you mentioned aren't desperate for one thanks to their ever-growing durability, especially Aran.

Beastfoe.

IIRC, Nolan's borderline 1HKO'ing tigers, but that doesn't mean it isn't good on him. Leonardo is a good option too, for a garanteed 1HKO. Micaiah can also do wonders with it, she hits Res, and has a crapload of Mag. I just gave it to Laura, though.

1-4 Master Seal

I don't think an early promotion would save Ilyana that much, it'll only give her a boost on durability, which just isn't saying much, she'll be probably benched after a while, so it's better to use it on her either when she gets to 20/0, or just use it on Nolan.

1-5 Spirit Dust.

Giving it to Micaiah is such a waste, just look at that magnificent 80% Mag growth, she'll never get Mag screwed, and you're feeding her kills to level her up most of the time.

Ilyana is a good option, but giving it to Tormod is also a waste, you're not getting any good use out of it outside Part 1, just like Ily's early promotion.

I gave mine to Zihark, it helps quite a bit when he has the Imbue skill.

1-5 Arms Scroll.

I save it for Laura, but that's just if you're considering using her for combat later on. Giving it to Micaiah helps her use Purge during 3-13, considering most rather use her as a healer. >_>

1-6 Arms Scroll.

Again, either Laura or Micaiah.

1-7 Secret Book and Arms Scroll.

Jill gets best uses out of the Secret Book, seeing as most at the DB fap to Skill growths. As for the Arms Scroll, I just won't say it again...

Brave Sword

I never got it...but like you said, Zihark and Edward are the best options.

1-8 Ashera Icon. Aran might want it.

Him, or Ilyana too, he has a crapload of Def to shrug of criticals later on, if that's your worry.

1-8 Angel Robe basically goes to whoever you didn't give the last one to that could use it.

That seems alright, maybe Jill might want it here.

1-E Speedwings

Micaiah, Ilyana or Aran. Preferably Micaiah, to not get doubled so much.

1-E Parity

This is pretty useless in 1-E when you could forge maxed out steel forges.

1-E Vantage

Vantage is a rather unreliable skill, but it's better put to use than not. Give it to whoever has Beastfoe so they can avoid a counter while getting a free kill when it activates (So Nolan/Volug/Jill).

What...? The activation rate is the same as Adept's, so you might as well give it to Zihark.

[Shadow Mir]

I give it to Micaiah, it might not turn out of very good use since she still gets 1RKO'd alot, but it will help when her HP/Def start growing. Giving it to Nolan isn't too useful, especially when he starts paying off in Part 3 most of all.

I just save it for either Mist or Heather. But that's just me. As you pointed out, Eddie and Jill are good options, but there's also Nolan, who gets will avoid getting doubled alot while using a Steel Axe.

I never really got this skill, but if I did, I'd use it on Laura thanks to her dreadful light rank at promotion.

Good.

I missed this one, also. I'll have to say it's recommendable for Micaiah here, her durability is worse earlygame, the other characters you mentioned aren't desperate for one thanks to their ever-growing durability, especially Aran.

Other than the fact that Jill's HP base is absolutely atrocious for her level. Not that I care for her...

IIRC, Nolan's borderline 1HKO'ing tigers, but that doesn't mean it isn't good on him. Leonardo is a good option too, for a garanteed 1HKO. Micaiah can also do wonders with it, she hits Res, and has a crapload of Mag. I just gave it to Laura, though.

Indeed, Leo can make awesome use of it. In fact, personally, he gets Beastfoe since I can eliminate pretty much anything I deem a problem on the spot by having him use a bowgun.

I don't think an early promotion would save Ilyana that much, it'll only give her a boost on durability, which just isn't saying much, she'll be probably benched after a while, so it's better to use it on her either when she gets to 20/0, or just use it on Nolan.

Giving it to Micaiah is such a waste, just look at that magnificent 80% Mag growth, she'll never get Mag screwed, and you're feeding her kills to level her up most of the time.

Ilyana is a good option, but giving it to Tormod is also a waste, you're not getting any good use out of it outside Part 1, just like Ily's early promotion.

I gave mine to Zihark, it helps quite a bit when he has the Imbue skill.

I save it for Laura, but that's just if you're considering using her for combat later on. Giving it to Micaiah helps her use Purge during 3-13, considering most rather use her as a healer. >_>

I fail to see why you'd waste money on an Arms Scroll this early. >_>

Again, either Laura or Micaiah.

To be honest... You're better off selling it.

Jill gets best uses out of the Secret Book, seeing as most at the DB fap to Skill growths. As for the Arms Scroll, I just won't say it again...

But would you really want to buy them?

I never got it...but like you said, Zihark and Edward are the best options.

Him, or Ilyana too, he has a crapload of Def to shrug of criticals later on, if that's your worry.

That seems alright, maybe Jill might want it here.

Sounds good.

Micaiah, Ilyana or Aran. Preferably Micaiah, to not get doubled so much.

This is pretty useless in 1-E when you could forge maxed out steel forges.

Parity probably wouldn't be seeing much, if any, use until 4-E, to be honest.

What...? The activation rate is the same as Adept's, so you might as well give it to Zihark.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[whase]

mostly I keep my stat boosters for endgame, but if I wouldn't...

1-P Dracoshield

most probably Edward. I don't always use him, but except for Nolan and Jill (who don't really need it) he's the only direct attacker for the DB. otherwise it would be micky.

1-2 Energy Drop

most probably Leo, maybe Edward. Nolan doesn't need it.

1-4 Seraph Robe.

Micky, definately.

1-4 Master Seal

whoever gets to 20 first

1-5 Spirit Dust.

really, this one I always will save up for later (yes I buy it).

1-5 Arms Scroll.

save it for non-trained sanaki's light magic. Sephiran and Mickey pwning Ashera is fun!

1-6 Arms Scroll.

see above

1-7 Secret Book and Arms Scroll.

I don't buy the arms scroll, the secret book would probably go to...um...Nolan maybe?

Brave Sword

keep untill endgame and bless it, I just love atacking 4 times.

1-8 Ashera Icon.

whoever has low luck

1-8 Arms Scroll.

not a clue

1-8 Angel Robe

Micky or Eddie

1-9 Statue Frag and Arms Scroll.

no purchase.

1-E Speedwings

either Micky or save it for Ike (to not be doubled by BK)

skills; I like them.

1-E Parity

somehow, it looks like cats have lower hit against this, goes to jill

1-E Vantage

mostly Nolan or Eddie

Sothe's Guard

keep it on Sothe, never activated for me

Leo's Cancel

Nolan or Eddie

Eddie's Wrath

keep it on Eddie, otherwise goes to Micky as long as resolve isn't there

Meg's Fortune

give it to sothe, just because he has the capacity.

Zihark's Adept

Sothe, with this he's a killing machine for the rest of the game (until he gets underleveled from forced promotion)

Tauroneo's Resolve

Micky, definately.

Fiona's Imbue and Savior

savior to anyone with capacity left

Imbue to highest mag unit.

Tormod's Celerity

just take it off him, give it to rafiel in part 4.

Nailah's Guard

like Sothe, I don't use it, so keep it on her for no reason

Pass

whoever has a good place for it. not for anyone who's leaving though.

1-3 Discipline.

Ilyana

Beastfoe.

depends highly on PT

1-6 Renewal.

volug or sothe, later on maybe Nolan (since I drop volug ASAP)

[dondon151]

Guys, the point of this topic is not to list the trivial merits of giving everyone and their mothers a highly contested stat booster. We're not interested if you like abusing to Laura 20/1 in 1-E and have her fall short of OHKOs in 3-6 with Beastfoe and maxed forge Light after a Spirit Dust, Speedwings, and Dracoshield, nor are we interested if you never use the Speedwings on Haar because you hate eyepatches and never use him. If you make an argument, think for a moment whether it will fly in the tier list topic. If you don't think it would, then don't bother posting it.

Edited June 2, 2010 by dondon151

[grandjackal]

I shall make a note here and now that I have in mind the idea to ban people from being taken seriously if I must, as I'm going to try and keep this topic as well discussed as I can (and I know Im failing at that, I'm not the most organized guy here). You could say this is a branch topic to the tier list itself, and it shall be treated as such.

So if anyone is going to come into this topic with ideas on how to use stat boosters and certain skills, do keep that in mind before you present your side of a discussion, or else you'll be put on an ignore list for this topic.

I'm sorry if that seems abrupt, but I'm just trying to make sure this topic doesn't go the same route it did last time, so this is just me trying to unclog discussion.

[Narga_Rocks]

1-P Dracoshield

1-2 Energy Drop

1-3 Discipline.

1-4 Seraph Robe.

Beastfoe.

1-4 Master Seal

1-5 Spirit Dust. (Better Off Not Purchased)

1-5 Arms Scroll. (Better Off Not Purchased)

1-6 Renewal.

1-6 Arms Scroll. (Better Off Sold)

1-7 Secret Book and Arms Scroll. (Better OFF Not Purchased)

Brave Sword

1-8 Ashera Icon.

1-8 Arms Scroll.

1-8 Angel Robe

1-9 Statue Frag and Arms Scroll. (Better Off Not Purchased)

1-E Speedwings (Better Off Shipped)

1-E Parity

1-E Vantage

Okay, time to add to your list. Also, Parity can go on units in 3-13 since if they don't have any +hit from their support they'll get an extra +15 hit on player phase this way. Even with a +8 hit from support it is still a +7 hit on player phase. I think Int may have had it on Jill when he was assaulting Ike.

If you are going to mention one master seal and a bunch of bargains better off not purchased, then

other master seals:

1-5 (steal from a guy)

1-6-2 (hidden treasure)

1-7 Hidden treasure

1-9 Bargains

1-F Bargains

the ones in bargains are obviously better off not purchased

You might mention beast killer. Actually, since you can buy another in 3-6, you may even suggest sending the 1-4 one (whatever remains of it at the end of part 1) to Heather. 9 mt and 20 crit is better than almost anything you can get for her. Just a really expensive +5 steel dagger that has 1-2 range but no crit (unless you want to pay for that, too). Granted, there are better things and Ilyana has limited space.

maybe mention the shine barrier. Possible uses include on the bridge in 1-6-2 to help block the cavs. After all, Tauroneo is only one unit and nobody else can reliable take 5 or 6 attacks on one enemy phase.

Hammers are also rare enough you might want to suggest whether or not to add them to the mule (Ilyana) when 1-E ends.

Not sure about the various gems, but it might be an idea to suggest how many you might want to send with the mule.

and you still don't have Paragon in the bolded list.

similarly to the hammers, you may want to talk about the wyrmslayer in 1-8. There are a fair number of these during the game and this one doesn't do squat in 1-8 (there are wyverns, but those are killed by Tormod. I don't think there are any that Zihark would be likely to face). Is it good to purchase this thing for safe keeping? Or perhaps it is better to just rely on the others you can buy. Or maybe it should go on the mule so that Mia and Ike don't have to fight over the one in 3-2.

It might be worth mentioning that arcfire and arcthunder are both weaker than a forged fire/thunder and more expensive per use. And don't have nearly as much hit even if you don't take the opportunity to add some to the forge.

And maybe I should change the name to resource allocation? I don't know, but you mention skills and the brave sword and a seal and arms scrolls already.

[Junkhead]

Guys, the point of this topic is not to list the trivial merits of giving everyone and their mothers a highly contested stat booster. We're not interested if you like abusing to Laura 20/1 in 1-E and have her fall short of OHKOs in 3-6 with Beastfoe and maxed forge Light after a Spirit Dust, Speedwings, and Dracoshield, nor are we interested if you never use the Speedwings on Haar because you hate eyepatches and never use him. If you make an argument, think for a moment whether it will fly in the tier list topic. If you don't think it would, then don't bother posting it.

I stated who I use it on as well as who the items/skills are best on when it comes to effecient runs. And I just never bothered using Haar when he is pure Atk and Def, it seems like a Speedwings is kinda like a waste when he won't double either way. Or you could just BEXP him once he caps Str/Skill and Def.

[grandjackal]

Okay, time to add to your list. Also, Parity can go on units in 3-13 since if they don't have any +hit from their support they'll get an extra +15 hit on player phase this way. Even with a +8 hit from support it is still a +7 hit on player phase. I think Int may have had it on Jill when he was assaulting Ike.

Not a bad idea at all.

If you are going to mention one master seal and a bunch of bargains better off not purchased, then

other master seals:

1-5 (steal from a guy)

1-6-2 (hidden treasure)

1-7 Hidden treasure

1-9 Bargains

1-F Bargains

the ones in bargains are obviously better off not purchased

I'll add it to the Master Seal bit.

You might mention beast killer. Actually, since you can buy another in 3-6, you may even suggest sending the 1-4 one (whatever remains of it at the end of part 1) to Heather. 9 mt and 20 crit is better than almost anything you can get for her. Just a really expensive +5 steel dagger that has 1-2 range but no crit (unless you want to pay for that, too). Granted, there are better things and Ilyana has limited space.

Why would I bother? Goes to Sothe. Only other people who can use it are Heather (who never does and never should fight laguz), and Volke (Who fights them for an entire one chapter that lasts for what, 2 turns?). It's so braindead obvious that it seems like a waste of space to add it in..

maybe mention the shine barrier. Possible uses include on the bridge in 1-6-2 to help block the cavs. After all, Tauroneo is only one unit and nobody else can reliable take 5 or 6 attacks on one enemy phase.

It's pretty easy to waste all the cavs without slowing down even without the shine barrier just in one turn. I think when it comes to a better off not purchased, mentioning the shine barrier again seems like a waste.

Hammers are also rare enough you might want to suggest whether or not to add them to the mule (Ilyana) when 1-E ends.

That much is true though I suppose.

Not sure about the various gems, but it might be an idea to suggest how many you might want to send with the mule.

People agree that it's usually the Blue Gem thats shipped off, right?

and you still don't have Paragon in the bolded list.

Because again that is far more up to the player than anything else. Paragon's probably the only skill I can't 100% designate to.

similarly to the hammers, you may want to talk about the wyrmslayer in 1-8. There are a fair number of these during the game and this one doesn't do squat in 1-8 (there are wyverns, but those are killed by Tormod. I don't think there are any that Zihark would be likely to face). Is it good to purchase this thing for safe keeping? Or perhaps it is better to just rely on the others you can buy. Or maybe it should go on the mule so that Mia and Ike don't have to fight over the one in 3-2.

It seems like a weapon that's entirely meant just to be shipped over for that. I had ocmpletely forgotten about it, so I shall mention it as a better off shipped.

It might be worth mentioning that arcfire and arcthunder are both weaker than a forged fire/thunder and more expensive per use. And don't have nearly as much hit even if you don't take the opportunity to add some to the forge.

Of which case no, it's not worth mentioning.

And maybe I should change the name to resource allocation? I don't know, but you mention skills and the brave sword and a seal and arms scrolls already.

Yeah, was thinking about that and I probably should. I shall rename.

[dondon151]

I stated who I use it on as well as who the items/skills are best on when it comes to effecient runs. And I just never bothered using Haar when he is pure Atk and Def, it seems like a Speedwings is kinda like a waste when he won't double either way. Or you could just BEXP him once he caps Str/Skill and Def.

Here's the thing. An efficient run is not efficient without Haar. The benefits of making Haar into a doubling, flying god are paramount for an efficiency playthrough. If you think it's better to give the Speedwings to, say, non-transfer Boyd, who is not a doubling, flying god even with the booster, then please take your ideas somewhere else.

Edited June 2, 2010 by dondon151

[Junkhead]

Well, I did mention my opinions aside from what is effecient, I just forgot Haar in my post reguarding who is the best option for the 1-E Speedwings. Micaiah/Ilyana/Aran seem well-benefitted by it, I think Haar could use the Speedwings from Part 2 instead.

I can easily agree Haar is an excelelent unit because of his flying tankiness. An early promotion also fixes his Spd problems.

[Narga_Rocks]

Why would I bother? Goes to Sothe. Only other people who can use it are Heather (who never does and never should fight laguz), and Volke (Who fights them for an entire one chapter that lasts for what, 2 turns?). It's so braindead obvious that it seems like a waste of space to add it in..

It's only Heather's strongest weapon until you can steal a silver dagger in 3-7 from a DB member...

Heck, it's sothe's best weapon, too, aside from accuracy issues (Heather at least gets Ike-stars and some units may enjoy her affinity). I've used the beast killer on non-laguz before.

It's pretty easy to waste all the cavs without slowing down even without the shine barrier just in one turn. I think when it comes to a better off not purchased, mentioning the shine barrier again seems like a waste.

it's a stealable item in 1-5. Granted you need to get sothe to the boss and then not have sothe kill the boss, but whatever.

Because again that is far more up to the player than anything else. Paragon's probably the only skill I can't 100% designate to.

still can make suggestions. Just can't do things like "well, only 2 or 3 people are really even in this competition".

Yeah, was thinking about that and I probably should. I shall rename.

I don't think you can. Can you even access the full editor when editing an existing post?

And what's with soul not thinking the wing makes Haar double? 22 spd already makes the difference for things like paladins and whatever. It's only 6 or 7 levels to get Haar to 24 spd if you wing him and then he's good until 3-8. By 3-8 you can crown him and that'll be 26 speed. Flying god? Definitely.

And dude, Titania. There are two units in the GM chapters that become ORKOing gods with those wings. There are two wings. Efficiency suggests that it is best to turn them both into gods. The effect of the wings on anyone else is miniscule in comparison.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[grandjackal]

I can easily agree Haar is an excelelent unit because of his flying tankiness. An early promotion also fixes his Spd problems.

Not quite. 20 base speed, +2 on promotion. It's the wing and a crown that makes him the killer we know and love.

[Junkhead]

Not quite. 20 base speed, +2 on promotion. It's the wing and a crown that makes him the killer we know and love.

Isn't he still missing to double on a few enemies excluding Halberdiers and Warriors?

Edited June 2, 2010 by Soul

[dondon151]

As for the part 1 Paragon issue, you only have a handful of units that actually have the capacity to equip that skill. You pretty much have to put it on Sothe, Micaiah, or Zihark for any sort of tangible benefit (oh look Volug gets 2 EXP instead of 1!). After that, in part 3 it would go on units that have the greatest chance at seeing endgame (so Nolan, Jill, possibly Aran, and Volug gains a lot more EXP here too).

[Junkhead]

As for the part 1 Paragon issue, you only have a handful of units that actually have the capacity to equip that skill. You pretty much have to put it on Sothe, Micaiah, or Zihark for any sort of tangible benefit (oh look Volug gets 2 EXP instead of 1!). After that, in part 3 it would go on units that have the greatest chance at seeing endgame (so Nolan, Jill, possibly Aran, and Volug gains a lot more EXP here too).

I actually believe Micaiah and Zihark are the best options for it, Micaiah will have to get to 20/0 in ten chapters. Zihark pays off better than Sothe does, it might as well go to him...

EDIT: Volug levels up pretty well once he starts of fighting Laguz.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Soul

[grandjackal]

As for the part 1 Paragon issue, you only have a handful of units that actually have the capacity to equip that skill. You pretty much have to put it on Sothe, Micaiah, or Zihark for any sort of tangible benefit (oh look Volug gets 2 EXP instead of 1!). After that, in part 3 it would go on units that have the greatest chance at seeing endgame (so Nolan, Jill, possibly Aran, and Volug gains a lot more EXP here too).

If one of them has Beastfoe, can they even fit Paragon?

Well, Volgu obviously can, but the others?

[Interceptor]

Paragon in Part 3 should go towards giving you someone with which to kill off Ike early in 3-13, since that's the only way you're saving turns here. Probably this is the most compelling reason to keep Paragon with the DB in the first place. I've discovered that Jill is pretty excellent for this job, but others might do.

[Narga_Rocks]

Isn't he still missing to double on a few enemies excluding Halberdiers and Warriors?

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14643

read it yourself before saying things. 26 speed in 3-8 gets everything but swordmasters. In fact, it covers him until 3-E when you get like one or two warriors with 23+ spd that Haar may never even meet. Part 4 is an issue, but the wing is for clearing out part 3 quickly. Besides, he's probably going silver and 4-P has plenty of 22 speed paladins. In fact, most of them are. There's like 2 that have 23 speed.

[dondon151]

The topic title is spelt incorrectly.

Micaiah is a terrible choice for any sort of EXP. Her offensive parameters are permanently unsalvageable and it doesn't make any difference if she gets EXP or not. I mean, Vykan had like a 3/1/1 Micaiah by 4-E-5 on his speedrun or something, and he did perfectly fine.

[Junkhead]

The topic title is spelt incorrectly.

Micaiah is a terrible choice for any sort of EXP. Her offensive parameters are permanently unsalvageable and it doesn't make any difference if she gets EXP or not. I mean, Vykan had like a 3/1/1 Micaiah by 4-E-5 on his speedrun or something, and he did perfectly fine.

Even if that is true, she might as well just get to 20/0 so she isn't a failure, she won't be even apt for using a Physic so far in range, her durability would just be ridiculously awful.