Preliminary Tier List Discussion (Lunatic Mode)

[Colonel M]

Which means you will have all 3 of them by Lang's chapter.

Ah wait, Lang is Chapter 6. My mistake.

I don't really buy "Outclassed by Draug" as an argument, btw. Draug's growths got souped up absurdly. I can see how he has trouble because of eh bases and all, but that's not really a good argument. Draug's mid tier for being growths+early join if nothing else. Cord may or may not pass for mid-low.

It was never meant to be an argument. Merely stating that I probably wouldn't touch Cord since Draug is pretty much Cord with better base stats aside from his minor durability issue which patches up over time.

By the way, if anyone is curious. Bandits have 29 Atk. Some Pirates have 30. This is Chapter 4, by the way.

[grandjackal]

I didn't say he was wtfpwnsome utility. I just said he was contributing something to the field. And since he can be nabbed on Turn 1, why wouldn't you?

I don't really buy "Outclassed by Draug" as an argument, btw. Draug's growths got souped up absurdly. I can see how he has trouble because of eh bases and all, but that's not really a good argument. Draug's mid tier for being growths+early join if nothing else. Cord may or may not pass for mid-low.

Cord's pretty much got worse growths and bases. He's nto off to a good start and has no promising future, only having minor use on arrival. Sounds low tier to me.

Well, due to the whole Lena deal, there's actual incentive to recruit Julian whereas there isn't any for Matthis. But if that's not being considered, then yeah, I 100% agree.

*Kills Lena*

Behold, I have accomplished the same goal.

[Dat Nick]

Okeydoke then. Unless thief utility is that vital (and really, you'll probably waste as many turns trying to recruit Julian as you will nabbing chests), down goes Julian.

Oh, and was anybody else getting horrible speed out of Linde? (I'm talking 10 at lvl 10 horrible) I think it's possible her speed growth took a hit. (Maybe to compensate for Nosferatu?) That's pretty bad if it's screwage, so it might be me, but...

Since we were talking about utility earlier, I'd like to inquire about Athena...should we just peg her at lo-mid or something for prologue utility? I found her extremley useful for those chapters, though obviously she's a total joke when she returns.

Edited July 19, 2010 by SaltyWongIsSalty

[grandjackal]

Okeydoke then. Unless thief utility is that vital (and really, you'll probably waste as many turns trying to recruit Julian as you will nabbing chests), down goes Julian.

I think it depends. He can recruit Rickard, so a team of two thieves actually could save you turns, or at least save up keys for selling in a game that's pretty tight on resources. If they don't pay back their dues in turns, I think they can pay their dues back with the money they give you from selling keys, which means more forging.

That, and the hammer is not bound to hit the boss too often. While they're busy trying to take care of that guy, Marth can run to Julian. Granted they could kill the boss by then, but Marth's still free to use up his time in the mean time to go pick up ulain then head back.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[Dat Nick]

I think they can pay their dues back with the money they give you from selling keys, which means more forging.

There's only one Master Key (That I saw on NM) and it's gotten quite late in the game, so the only dough they'll be saving for you is from door keys; which are 150 a pop. You're going to need to sell a LOT of those before it amounts to any real sum...

[Momo]

I don't think it's gonna take ten turns to beat a boss. Any turns that are wasted on the boss are made up for the fact that Bord (Cord? whichever one) is also out of your way.

[Deliriyum]

I don't think it's gonna take ten turns to beat a boss. Any turns that are wasted on the boss are made up for the fact that Bord (Cord? whichever one) is also out of your way.

How is Bord out of Marth's way? The village is right on the path. Regarding recruiting Julian, I would take whatever ground units you have that can hop over the mountains to take on the boss group, while Marth takes the long way around, recruiting Julian and getting to the throne to seize after it's been cleared out. This way less turns are wasted.

[Momo]

For it to not be out of the way, you have to go aaaaaall the way around the map, clockwise, just to get to the castle. If you ignore Bord, you can just use the bridge key you get from the first village, and be on your way in way less time.

[grandjackal]

For it to not be out of the way, you have to go aaaaaall the way around the map, clockwise, just to get to the castle. If you ignore Bord, you can just use the bridge key you get from the first village, and be on your way in way less time.

So then where is your Hammer if you are not recruiting Bord?

[Dat Nick]

I would recruit Bord anyway just for the hammer he starts with (and the fact he's like the only guy who might be able to use it)

[Deliriyum]

For it to not be out of the way, you have to go aaaaaall the way around the map, clockwise, just to get to the castle. If you ignore Bord, you can just use the bridge key you get from the first village, and be on your way in way less time.

Oh. I thought that was a door key, and the bridge just happened to be broken. FFFFFUUUUUU- Well that's what I get for a blind playthrough.

[Momo]

So then where is your Hammer if you are not recruiting Bord?

Me not know, I forgot he had the Hammer. I wasn't saying you shouldn't recruit him though, just that he costs you a couple turns. Before you ask "how are you gonna get the hammer over to someone?", you can just trade it to someone on a horsie.

[Dat Nick]

And if you're not an axeman (who might not even have the rank, I'm not sure) then who not named Bord is using the hammer?

[Momo]

Are you saying Bord is essential to beating the boss, then? If he is, then it's not a waste of turns to get him.

[Dat Nick]

Are you saying Bord is essential to beating the boss, then?

I'm absolutely saying just that. Even my Unit would still really want that hammer. And it's more like he does take turns, he just justifies them.

[Momo]

I'm talking about Bord, not his hammer. If My Unit is not a fighter or pirate (I was thinking of arguing he would be, but that's a little specific) then he's needed.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

For it to not be out of the way, you have to go aaaaaall the way around the map, clockwise, just to get to the castle. If you ignore Bord, you can just use the bridge key you get from the first village, and be on your way in way less time.

Unless your unit is a knight you're taking the long way on Lunatic because Ballista+cavs will most likely tagteam to kill any of your units in 2 hits. Also, Bord can come in handy for chapter 3x during turn 1.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Joey

[Don Draper]

I can't believe I forgot about one of the most important topics: Ranks

We're not sure what all of the ranks are yet, but suffice to say we'll have both ranked and unranked tier lists?

[Colonel M]

Unless your unit is a knight you're taking the long way on Lunatic because Ballista+cavs will most likely tagteam to kill any of your units in 2 hits. Also, Bord can come in handy for chapter 3x during turn 1.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm trying to figure out if you can go across the bridge in Chapter 3. Might be possible, though I'm placing doubt on it. Either way I just assume we recruit everyone whether good or bad, so it doesn't really matter to me much.

Also, if we count Prologue performance, Ryan > Gordin looks possible.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Colonel M

[Don Draper]

After fooling around with different My-Unit combinations, I'd have to rank them like this so far based on prologue performance:

1) Knight

+2 HP and +2 Def makes this guy an unstoppable force in the prologue with even formidable opponents like Caeda and Athena tinking him. However, he'll probably drop like a rocket once you hit Chapter 1 so he won't hold this spot for very long.

2) Fighter

+2 HP and +2 Def with speed growth seems to be the way to go for this guy. He's often 3-4RKO'd, and his ridiculous strength growth eventually lets him ORKO once he starts doubling (Which is faster then you think, he'll likely ORKO Pirates by Chapter 1). I can see Fighter overtaking Knight a few chapters into maingame.

3) Cavalier (Male)

Cavaliers are solid classes, but they don't god mod the prologue like the above two classes do. Certain builds give them certain perks (ORKOing the first soldier you see in the Prologue is even possible with +2 Skl/Spd and +1Str). Not quite as amazing as the Fighter, but still a solid choice nevertheless.

4) Mercenary

Kind of like a worse version of the Cavalier to be honest. There are too many lance users in the prologue for him to be all that useful, although doubling is a nice perk. Maybe a different build would increase his usefulness.

5) Myrmidon

See Merc pretty much, except with worse durability

6) Archer/Mage

What to say about them? They both have durability issues, but they can also attack at 1-2 range. I haven't really found solid builds for either of them, so there ranking could change with some fiddling. Paperblade has expressed disappointment in Mage though...

7) Pegasus Knight/Cavalier (Female)

If somebody can find an effective build to beat Prologue 3 with these two then be my guest. Otherwise, they're pretty much garbage.

Looks like Male is the way to go for My-Unit unless Archer/Mage can be made work.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Ari Gold

[_____]

I could definitely see Jeorge in Mid (since it's probably going to be necessary with the huge cast) or even Upper Mid. His bases are pretty nice, he has auto-A bows, and, of course, all of the Flying Dragons help.

[dondon151]

It's really too bad that female MU cavaliers start out with swords instead of lances.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I think a certain build for Myrm might put her above Merc when you take the early Lady Sword and then Swordmaster for 30 SPD cap late game (which will matter). My Myrm ended up being able to take on 1 Silver Axe and 1 Silver Lance Draco as a Cavalier in chapter 2. Of course, she was at a high level at the time since the other Prologue characters didn't seem worth giving EXP to me since Rody may need more than 1 level up to survive C1 bandits.

Also, I can pick up the Lunatic mode stats in the same way VASM helped me find Medeus' stats.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Sirius

[Don Draper]

I think a certain build for Myrm might put her above Merc when you take the early Lady Sword and then Swordmaster for 30 SPD cap late game (which will matter). My Myrm ended up being able to take on 1 Silver Axe and 1 Silver Lance Draco as a Cavalier in chapter 2. Of course, she was at a high level at the time since the other Prologue characters didn't seem worth giving EXP to me since Rody may need more than 1 level up to survive C1 bandits.

I could definitely see that happening. Out of curiosity, what did you use for her build? I've tried +Str/+HP and +HP/Def since she was doubling from the start regardless.

EDIT:

Also, I can pick up the Lunatic mode stats in the same way VASM helped me find Medeus' stats.

That would be very useful thank you. Even just snapshots would help if you don't want to copy them all down.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I could definitely see that happening. Out of curiosity, what did you use for her build? I've tried +Str/+HP and +HP/Def since she was doubling from the start regardless.

I don't recall, by the end of the prologue though, she had maxed SPD as Myrm so I reclassed her to Cavalier and as that with a Steel Sword, she 1 rounded any enemy in chapter 1... doing 18 damage with Iron and 21 with Steel per attack against bandits.

That would be very useful thank you. Even just snapshots would help if you don't want to copy them all down.

Starting with which chapter? I think Paperblade's videos already reveal some. Also, I might not be able to get them for gaiden chapters or FoW.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Sirius