Golden Sun Class Tier List

[Suichimo]

Didn't mean to imply that the Guardian Balls would cast Guard Aura on the Refresh Balls, I was listing off what made them a pain. :P

[Shadow Mir]

Late again, but the balls summoned by Star Magician really have their normal mode stats even in hard mode? Also, Thunder Balls can only attack and are worthless after you use Resist several times. And the Tisiphone Edge... getting one of those, let alone two, sounds like a colossal pain >_> Also, while Guard Aura has increased priority, you can cut that short with Ground or Petra (assuming that your AGL is higher than its AGL, that is. And there's the fact that its AGL is one of the highest in the game.).

Plus, would having Jenna as a Brute and Felix as whatever class a Jupiter Djinn would change him to (Apprentice, I think?) be efficient early on?

Edited October 8, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Narga_Rocks]

Didn't mean to imply that the Guardian Balls would cast Guard Aura on the Refresh Balls, I was listing off what made them a pain. :P

Oh. Because Refresh Balls are OHKOd so easily. You shouldn't have them heal too often.

Oh, and having Daedalus implies not going to Treasure Isle ASAP, ie: before Magma Rock. I think I do this for the same reason that I go to Gaia Rock before Aqua Rock and Tundaria Tower. I think it is cooler. Though more to the point, I want the Iris Robe earlier, and I figure if I'm already there, may as well take the guy out. Azul could perhaps come in handy at some point.

But even with 200 Thunder Resist, Shine Plasma (100) should still do 55 damage (110 power, 200 resist, multiplier of 0.55). Each. And you take 180 or so from Mine Ball from the boss (again, with really high fire resist). You could face 580 damage at once. Granted, that's the highest it'll go. And that's only if they focus on the same unit. You would still be wishing twice nearly every round unless you want to spam Shade and Flash. Like I said, Star Magician gets to attack more often if he's not summoning.

Oh, and Mine Ball is fire, right? I didn't waste time loading up on Fire Resist at the same time as Wind and Water?

Edited October 8, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Shadow Mir]

Oh. Because Refresh Balls are OHKOd so easily. You shouldn't have them heal too often.

Oh, and having Daedalus implies not going to Treasure Isle ASAP, ie: before Magma Rock. I think I do this for the same reason that I go to Gaia Rock before Aqua Rock and Tundaria Tower. I think it is cooler. Though more to the point, I want the Iris Robe earlier, and I figure if I'm already there, may as well take the guy out. Azul could perhaps come in handy at some point.

But even with 200 Thunder Resist, Shine Plasma (100) should still do 55 damage (110 power, 200 resist, multiplier of 0.55). Each. And you take 180 or so from Mine Ball from the boss (again, with really high fire resist). You could face 580 damage at once. Granted, that's the highest it'll go. And that's only if they focus on the same unit. You would still be wishing twice nearly every round unless you want to spam Shade and Flash. Like I said, Star Magician gets to attack more often if he's not summoning.

Oh, and Mine Ball is fire, right? I didn't waste time loading up on Fire Resist at the same time as Wind and Water?

Mine Ball is Mercury aligned.

[Narga_Rocks]

Mine Ball is Mercury aligned.

So it is only Angry Mine that is Mars? That one had better be, at least, considering they are weak to Mercury. But since I think I only got hit by that once, the +fire resist was kind of a waste. I think aside form the Iris Robe the only Fire Resist things I had also resisted other stuff, so it's not too much of a waste. And Iris Robe meant that Sheba ended the battle with nearly full PP despite doing stuff very often.

[Shadow Mir]

So it is only Angry Mine that is Mars? That one had better be, at least, considering they are weak to Mercury. But since I think I only got hit by that once, the +fire resist was kind of a waste. I think aside form the Iris Robe the only Fire Resist things I had also resisted other stuff, so it's not too much of a waste. And Iris Robe meant that Sheba ended the battle with nearly full PP despite doing stuff very often.

Angry Mine is actually Venus based.

[Narga_Rocks]

Sigh. Stupid game sometimes. So basically the Fire resist was completely wasted and Earth Resist could have reduced the damage from that one attack. Oh well, it was only one attack.

[Kriemhild]

Late again, but the balls summoned by Star Magician really have their normal mode stats even in hard mode? Also, Thunder Balls can only attack and are worthless after you use Resist several times. And the Tisiphone Edge... getting one of those, let alone two, sounds like a colossal pain >_> Also, while Guard Aura has increased priority, you can cut that short with Ground or Petra (assuming that your AGL is higher than its AGL, that is. And there's the fact that its AGL is one of the highest in the game.).

Plus, would having Jenna as a Brute and Felix as whatever class a Jupiter Djinn would change him to (Apprentice, I think?) be efficient early on?

Well, any monster spawned midbattle gets NM stats and I see no reason why the balls would be any different. And since 200 Mars Power Daedalus OHKOs them, I don't think they get the 1.5 HP bonus.

As for Guard Ball, I don't see the point in wasting Ground or Petra on it. I always just kill the Refresh and Guard Balls before aiming at the Star Magician. Attacking the Anger Ball is a huge waste of time and Thunder Balls are useless against Resist, yeah.

Tisiphone Edge can be obtained by RNG manipulation. Well, pretty much ANY enemy item drop can be found this way. Reset until your first encounter contains the desired enemy with a buddy. Use six multi-target Psyngergies (none of the enemies are allowed to attack or die though) and then finish off the target with the weakness Djinn. If the weakness Djinn is with your slowest character, then have one other person defend. Then kill the other guy in any way you want and you'll get your item 100% of the time. There are easier methods for other items but Tisiphone Edge in particular has the tiniest probability of finding.

[Narga_Rocks]

Late again, but the balls summoned by Star Magician really have their normal mode stats even in hard mode? Also, Thunder Balls can only attack and are worthless after you use Resist several times. And the Tisiphone Edge... getting one of those, let alone two, sounds like a colossal pain >_> Also, while Guard Aura has increased priority, you can cut that short with Ground or Petra (assuming that your AGL is higher than its AGL, that is. And there's the fact that its AGL is one of the highest in the game.).

It's actually pretty easy with +agi items to get everyone faster. I did that at level 34 (Isaac at 30) and even had a slow class like Paladin faster. Now, it took some doing with item set ups and ensuring that I used as many of the +agi djinn as I could, but it worked. I almost wish I'd thought of Ground or Petra in advance. Any time a Guardian Ball popped out I might have used it. Jenna would have dropped all the way from Paladin to Dragoon, though, but oh well? Or Felix would drop from Berserker to Barbarian, depending on how I set that up. Summon + Eddy would get them back in one turn instead of two. Or with the right timing, Unleash + Summon + Eddy on the same turn gets it back immediately.

and yeah, I should have known that they have NM stats because Plume Edge OHKOd Anger Balls and Death Leap OHKOd Guardian Balls. That would not have been possible otherwise. I can pretty much confirm that they used NM stats for the summoned balls.

[Shadow Mir]

Well, any monster spawned midbattle gets NM stats and I see no reason why the balls would be any different. And since 200 Mars Power Daedalus OHKOs them, I don't think they get the 1.5 HP bonus.

As for Guard Ball, I don't see the point in wasting Ground or Petra on it. I always just kill the Refresh and Guard Balls before aiming at the Star Magician. Attacking the Anger Ball is a huge waste of time and Thunder Balls are useless against Resist, yeah.

Tisiphone Edge can be obtained by RNG manipulation. Well, pretty much ANY enemy item drop can be found this way. Reset until your first encounter contains the desired enemy with a buddy. Use six multi-target Psyngergies (none of the enemies are allowed to attack or die though) and then finish off the target with the weakness Djinn. If the weakness Djinn is with your slowest character, then have one other person defend. Then kill the other guy in any way you want and you'll get your item 100% of the time. There are easier methods for other items but Tisiphone Edge in particular has the tiniest probability of finding.

Eh, I never really noticed.

Hmm...

But what about if the character with the weakness Djinn is the fastest or second fastest? Also, the Psynergy used for the sake of RNG manipulation could be even stuff like Resist that affects all party members?

Edited October 8, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Narga_Rocks]

But what about if the character with the weakness Djinn is the fastest or second fastest?

Safety Boots. Aerial gloves on others. Move around other +agi items. Move around your djinn. It's a pain and a half, but you are setting up your party for the sole purpose of getting this item. Going to the trouble of making your order work correctly shouldn't be your biggest issue.

Also, the Psynergy used for the sake of RNG manipulation could be even stuff like Resist that affects all party members?

Go here:

http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Number_Generator

It tells you. Technically, if everyone has Wish and Resist I think you could arrange to get the item even on a solo enemy with the drop you want.

but boosting spells are 1 RN per party member targeted, and attack psynergy is 2 RN per enemy. Of course, you have 4 party members so yes, Resist should be equivalent to attacking two monsters with, say, Spark Plasma. 4 RNs each. This could be useful if you can't find a way to keep the enemy alive until the 7th attack.

[Kriemhild]

But what about if the character with the weakness Djinn is the fastest or second fastest? Also, the Psynergy used for the sake of RNG manipulation could be even stuff like Resist that affects all party members?

You could move the Djinn around to a different class. There is a minimum elemental power that the killer must have for the weakness element, but I think it can be done. To be absolutely safe, you could sick to the default classes and then equip/remove the Agility affecting items (you could even have fun with the class-changing items if you want) until you get the proper order.

Safety Boots. Aerial gloves on others. Move around other +agi items. Move around your djinn. It's a pain and a half, but you are setting up your party for the sole purpose of getting this item. Going to the trouble of making your order work correctly shouldn't be your biggest issue.

There's not much setting up required actually. I got the Riot Gloves, Mythril Silver (drop), Tisiphone Edge, and Feathered Robe one after another without having to change much. I tried the same for Lachesis Rule but HM stats prevent them from dying too early so I just raised the elemental powers as much as possible until I got it.

It tells you. Technically, if everyone has Wish and Resist I think you could arrange to get the item even on a solo enemy with the drop you want.

With 1 enemy, you'll need to use one odd number at some point. Impact takes care of that and using it on the killer also improves the chance that the Djinn will do the job. For items with 1/128 drop rates (Feathered Robe, Riot Gloves, etc), I use two single target psynergies (or face only one enemy), two multi-healing, one Impact and finish them off.

but boosting spells are 1 RN per party member targeted, and attack psynergy is 2 RN per enemy. Of course, you have 4 party members so yes, Resist should be equivalent to attacking two monsters with, say, Spark Plasma. 4 RNs each. This could be useful if you can't find a way to keep the enemy alive until the 7th attack.

If I couldn't keep the enemy alive, I would use Shine Plasma instead of Spark Plasma or even resort to plain old Plasma if I have to. Hard Mode Mad Demons are annoying because even Destruct Ray and other Psynergy around that level aren't good enough without sufficient elemental bonuses from equipment. Besides, hitting Lv 52 isn't very easy...

[Narga_Rocks]

If I couldn't keep the enemy alive, I would use Shine Plasma instead of Spark Plasma or even resort to plain old Plasma if I have to. Hard Mode Mad Demons are annoying because even Destruct Ray and other Psynergy around that level aren't good enough without sufficient elemental bonuses from equipment. Besides, hitting Lv 52 isn't very easy...

Spark Plasma was just an example. Though on HM you won't kill something with 6 weak psynergies anyway so you should never run into something you can't keep alive long enough. It's more of a problem in the first game, though still shouldn't come up much.

Actually, it can be a real pain when you have a 1000 hp enemy and a 500 hp enemy at the same time. Like, the 1008 HP Druj with a 376 hp Chimera Worm. You basically have to use wish or something and use some single target attacks on the Druj. Or include the fact you will kill the Chimera Worm in your # of RN used calculations when trying to make the Druj drop its Berserker Band.

Even Winged Lizards are pretty brittle beside Minos Knights. 505 hp and 681 hp. Though if you are pulling 300 damage with your djinn unleash it isn't a huge worry. Not nearly as annoying as Druj + Chimera Mage.

And wow Wonder Birds are fun. So easy to take out two of them without taking damage (and getting 1.3x exp at the same time). I love Lull and Ground/Petra. They are awesome.

So, Dullahan at level 40 yet again. Sigh. Well, Isaac was level 41, but that's it. Everyone else was 40. And I faced a decent number of wonder birds (and phoenix and fire birds earlier on) and went from like level 33 to 38 in a rather short time frame while getting the djinn in islet cave. I just can't see how you'd get much beyond level 40 without grinding. And I don't see the point of making a tier list if you consider grinding.

Now, granted, I spent a lot of time with Isaac and the others from the original game as the main party to get them from level 29 or 30 to even with the rest. If I hadn't done that, I suppose I could've had Felix and his friends at level 43 or 44 or something and Isaac and friends at level 35 or something. But still, you aren't getting lots of levels without grinding. Well, Lure cap would do it, too, but Lure cap is a pain because you have to fight so often.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Life]

Time to quickly reflect on GS1.

Brute has now been raised to the top of Joe Schmo Tier. I've found it unparalleled when trying to quickly clear midgame bosses such as the Killer Ape, Hydros Statue and Kraken, since I've now engineered a 6 turn clear of the Kraken (2400 HP and 60 Def along with Ply makes this thing a pretty formidable opponent). Samurai has also been moved to the top of Batman tier since I don't have enough proof that Samurai spanks everything and sends monsters home crying to Mommy.

So the baseline speed for bosses is as follows:

Tret - Missing Data

Saturos - 6 Turns

Killer Ape - 3 Turns

Hydros Statue - 4 Turns

Manticore - 4 Turns

Kraken - 6 Turns

That's what I've faced so far. Anyone want to do a really quick run of the earlygame and find out how fast you can beat Tret? Garet should be level 8 for Volcano.

EDIT: The 6 turn clear on the Kraken might be a bit flawed since I am actually missing two djinni (the one in Vale and the one in Vault). Could be 5 turns except that my only save is on the Tolbi Bound Ship right before the Kraken and I have a savestate from before the Lamarkan Desert that I really don't feel like playing.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Narga_Rocks]

Brute definitely has its advantages at times.

It's also the key to the awesome 2 Brute + 2 Hermit combo. And all the later class types.

Nothing like wish + impact + a really strong Garet + Isaac. Particularly against anything weak to mars. Ouch.

[Life]

Brute definitely has its advantages at times.

It's also the key to the awesome 2 Brute + 2 Hermit combo. And all the later class types.

Nothing like wish + impact + a really strong Garet + Isaac. Particularly against anything weak to mars. Ouch.

Well, my 6 turn strategy on the Kraken also involves Mia using 3 Djinn (2 attacking for about 200 damage total) on Turns 3-5 and then having Ivan summon Procne for 450+ damage.

[Kriemhild]

Time to quickly reflect on GS1.

Brute has now been raised to the top of Joe Schmo Tier. I've found it unparalleled when trying to quickly clear midgame bosses such as the Killer Ape, Hydros Statue and Kraken, since I've now engineered a 6 turn clear of the Kraken (2400 HP and 60 Def along with Ply makes this thing a pretty formidable opponent). Samurai has also been moved to the top of Batman tier since I don't have enough proof that Samurai spanks everything and sends monsters home crying to Mommy.

So the baseline speed for bosses is as follows:

Tret - Missing Data

Saturos - 6 Turns

Killer Ape - 3 Turns

Hydros Statue - 4 Turns

Manticore - Missing Data

Kraken - 6 Turns

That's what I've faced so far. Anyone want to do a really quick run of the earlygame and find out how fast you can beat Tret? Garet should be level 8 for Volcano.

EDIT: The 6 turn clear on the Kraken might be a bit flawed since I am actually missing two djinni (the one in Vale and the one in Vault). Could be 5 turns except that my only save is on the Tolbi Bound Ship right before the Kraken and I have a savestate from before the Lamarkan Desert that I really don't feel like playing.

I can try Tret. Do you want the battle to be before Imil or after Imil?

[Life]

I can try Tret. Do you want the battle to be before Imil or after Imil?

Before. Should take about 2 hours of gametime. Write down all of the info about the battle (Djinn setup, level, attack) and aim for the fastest kill possible.

I might try the Manticore later tonight.

EDIT: I've just tried the Manticore. Got it with a 5 turn clear but I don't think I had my Djinni set up correctly for Ivan and Mia. I might be able to drop it to a 4-turn.

2nd EDIT: After 4 turns, I had my party just attack. Turns out that I had him within 42 damage of dying. What the hell am I doing wrong?

3rd EDIT: Got it. I'll post another summary of the battle with the calculations to see how close I really came.

Isaac: Level 17 Swordsman (Flint, Granite, Quartz, Fizz) with 173 Att, 83 Water Power and 195 HP.

Garet: Level 17 Swordsman (Mist, Fever, Corona) with 165 Att, 82 Water Power and 199 HP.

Ivan: Level 17 Hermit (Spritz, Gust, Smog) with 106 Att, 114 Wind Power and 144 HP (137 HP when it matters).

Mia: Level 17 Elder (Sleet, Forge, Breeze, Zephyr) with 124 Att, 109 Water Power and 179 HP (170 HP when it matters).

If you haven't figured it out yet, this is one of those random stupid setups which brings absolute joy when you pull off the quick kill.

[spoiler=4 Turning of Manticore (thanks to Narga for part of the strategy)]Manticore: 1700 HP, 48 Def, 25 Water Resist, 100 Wind Resist

Turn 1:

Ivan casts Impact (+43 Att) on Isaac, giving Isaac 216 Att.

Mia unleashes Forge, giving Isaac (+44 Att) 260 Att, Garet (+41 Att) 206 Att, Ivan (+26 Att) 132 Att and Mia (+31 Att) 155 Att.

Isaac casts Cutting Edge.

Relative Attack = 260 Att - 48 Def = 212 RA

Relative Power = 83 Water Power - 25 Water Resist = 58 RP

Base Damage = 212 RA / 2 = 106 Damage

Modified Base Damage = 106 Damage * 1 + 32 = 138 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 58 RP / 400 = 1.145

Theoretical Damage = 138 Damage * 1.145 + 0-3 Damage = 158-161 Damage

Actual Damage:

Isaac casts Cutting Edge!

Manticore takes 158 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 1542

Garet casts Cutting Edge.

Relative Attack = 206 Att - 48 Def = 158 RA

Relative Power = 82 Water Power - 25 Water Resist = 57 RP

Base Damage = 158 RA / 2 = 79 Damage

Modified Base Damage = 79 Damage * 1 + 32 = 111 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 57 RP / 400 = 1.1425

Theoretical Damage = 111 Damage * 1.1425 + 0-3 Damage = 127-130 Damage

Actual Damage:

Garet casts Cutting Edge!

Manticore takes 127 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 1415

Turn 2:

Ivan unleashes Smog.

Relative Attack = 132 Att - 48 Def = 84 RA

Relative Power = 114 Wind Power - 100 Wind Resist = 14 RP

Base Damage = 84 RA / 2 = 42 Damage

Modified Base Damage = 42 Damage * 1 + 60 = 102 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 14 RP / 400 = 1.035

Theoretical Damage = 102 Damage * 1.035 + 0-3 Damage = 106-109 Damage

Actual Damage:

Ivan unleashes Smog!

Manticore takes 106 damage!

Manticore HP = 1309

Mia casts Impact (+41 Att) on Garet, giving Garet 247 Att.

Isaac casts Cutting Edge (158-161 damage)!

Manticore takes 158 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 1151

Garet casts Cutting Edge.

Relative Attack = 247 Att - 48 Def = 199 RA

Relative Power = 82 Water Power - 25 Water Resist = 57 RP

Base Damage = 199 RA / 2 = 99 Damage

Modified Base Damage = 99 Damage * 1 + 32 = 131 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 57 RP / 400 = 1.1425

Theoretical Damage = 131 Damage * 1.1425 + 0-3 Damage = 150-153 Damage

Actual Damage:

Garet casts Cutting Edge!

Manticore takes 151 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 1000

Turn 3:

Ivan unleashes Spritz.

Isaac heals 60 HP.

Garet heals 60 HP.

Ivan heals 41 HP.

Mia heals 51 HP.

Mia unleashes Sleet.

Relative Attack = 155 Att - 48 Def = 107 RA

Relative Power = 109 Water Power - 25 Water Resist = 84 RP

Base Damage = 107 RA / 2 = 54 Damage

Modified Base Damage = 54 Damage * 1 + 30 = 84 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 84 RP / 400 = 1.21

Theoretical Damage = 84 Damage * 1.21 + 0-3 Damage = 101-104 Damage

Actual Damage:

Mia unleashes Sleet!

Manticore takes 101 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 899

Isaac casts Cutting Edge (158-161 damage)!

Manticore takes 159 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 740

Garet casts Cutting Edge (150-153 damage)!

Manticore takes 152 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 588

Turn 4:

Ivan summons Jupiter.

Relative Power = 109 Wind Power - 100 Wind Resist = 9 RP

Base Damage = 30 + (1700 HP * 0.03) = 81 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 9 RP / 200 = 1.045

Theoretical Damage = 81 Damage * 1.045 + 0-3 Damage = 85-88 Damage

Actual Damage:

Ivan summons Jupiter!

Manticore takes 86 damage!

Manticore HP = 502

Mia summons Nereid.

Relative Power = 104 Water Power - 25 Water Resist = 79 RP

Base Damage = 60 + (1700 HP * 0.06) = 162 Damage

Power Multiplier = 1 + 79 RP / 200 = 1.395

Theoretical Damage = 162 Damage * 1.395 + 0-3 Damage = 226-229 Damage

Actual Damage:

Mia summons Nereid!

Manticore takes 227 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 275

Isaac casts Cutting Edge (158-161 damage)!

Manticore takes 158 damage!!!

Manticore HP = 117

Garet casts Cutting Edge (150-153 damage)!

Manticore takes 151 damage!!!

Manticore HP = -34

You felled Manticore!

This strategy is RNG proof since I mostly got RNG screwed and still killed him in 4 turns. Spritz will keep your party from dying and still allow Mia to summon Nereid on Turn 4.

Brute's been moved to Batman tier. Baseline for Kraken has now been established at 5 turns (it was nuts) meaning that Brute absolute murders the Killer Ape, Hydros Statue and Kraken along with a bunch of midgame dungeons.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Narga_Rocks]

new updates, anyone interested.

[Life]

Suddenly, I'm not too sure of Apprentice/Page's midgame... I mean, all it has are good stats and Astral Blast but it takes a while for Eruption or Mother Gaia to kick in. I'm starting to think that Ninja might be better since you'll have one for Colosso and it can easily dispose of all three fights.

Oh and Toadonpa can be 4 turned now. But Ivan and Mia needs to be at level 21 (had to do a wee bit of grinding with the Lure Cap on to get it) for High Impact.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Suichimo]

Suddenly, I'm not too sure of Apprentice/Page's midgame... I mean, all it has are good stats and Astral Blast but it takes a while for Eruption or Mother Gaia to kick in. I'm starting to think that Ninja might be better since you'll have one for Colosso and it can easily dispose of all three fights.

Oh and Toadonpa can be 4 turned now. But Ivan and Mia needs to be at level 21 (had to do a wee bit of grinding with the Lure Cap on to get it) for High Impact.

Why High Impact? If Isaac and Garet are the only ones attacking, two separate Impacts should be enough by themselves. High Impact is slower in attack boost than regular Impact.

[Life]

Why High Impact? If Isaac and Garet are the only ones attacking, two separate Impacts should be enough by themselves. High Impact is slower in attack boost than regular Impact.

Toadonpa is the first boss where I had dying troubles in trying to get a 4 turn done. Both Mia and Ivan need to start with 2 Djinni on standby and need to be use a certain number of Djinni in order summon Thor and Boreas on Turn 4. The problem is that to make sure they survive, Granite has to be one of these used Djinni and he's Earth, not Wind or Water.

I can 2 turn it in a Summon Rush but that's bullshit in my opinion.

EDIT: Other changes to the list:

Cavalier (Mia) is going way up along with Ascetic (Garet and he's moving slightly) while Shaman (Isaac) is going down.

Cavalier (Mia) with 6 Venus is probably the best class you can stick her in before moving to the exotic classes since she has quite decent attacking psynergy like Briar and Cutting Edge. Ply and Wish along with her balanced stats (1.4 HP, 1.1 PP, 1.3 Atk, 1.3 Def, 1.1 Agl, 1.2 Luk) put her in her best attacking class possible. You should have 6 Venus walking into Altmiller Cave with only 5 of the others and Mia is your best choice for holding onto them.

Ascetic (Garet) is actually not as shitty as he looks. For Water, Toadonpa needs to die but if he's above level 20 (he should be), he suddenly gets access to the powerful Hail Prism (90 Dam). Wind comes significantly earlier (end of Altmiller Cave) but it sucks since his strongest move is the pathetic Wind Slash (50 Dam) until Eruption (90 Dam) comes. Stats are decent and certainly help his weakness (1.4 PP, 1.4 Agl) but everything else is a bit of a downgrade. But once he gains Hail Prism, things start dying. Oh and he's got Wish too.

Shaman (Isaac) is just plain terrible. Froth Sphere is way too costly (65 Dam and 12 PP), Mad Growth stopped doing decent damage on the ship to Tolbi and the Bolt series is horrible (Blue Bolt is decent since it comes at a lowly level 22 with 90 Dam). Isaac was not meant to be a mage at all.

Enchanter (Ivan) is the hard one to figure out. He's got Astral Blast which works off of his inherent 104 Wind Power, Impact and absolutely shitty Psynergy. I'm in Suhalla right now (just got Flash) and Enchanter!Ivan's best Earth move is Gaia. We got that at level 7. Before fucking Kolima. Eruption is a godsend when it appears but it takes too long to do that. He's got fantastic stats (PP is still 1.4 but stuff like Def, Att and HP get a nice boost) and shitty magical Psynergy. So I don't know what to do.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Narga_Rocks]

Suddenly, I'm not too sure of Apprentice/Page's midgame... I mean, all it has are good stats and Astral Blast but it takes a while for Eruption or Mother Gaia to kick in. I'm starting to think that Ninja might be better since you'll have one for Colosso and it can easily dispose of all three fights.

So can Dragoon, though, so who cares?

I wonder if Barbarian could pull it off, too. Oh well.

[Life]

So can Dragoon, though, so who cares?

I wonder if Barbarian could pull it off, too. Oh well.

To be honest, I've never tried Dragoon or Barbarian in Colosso. Or Ninja but all Isaac did was keep abusing Death Plunge.

Couple other changes that need to be made:

What the hell was I thinking with Medium > Ranger? Ranger is probably better than anything else in the GYS tier. Moving it to bottom of Joe Schmo.

Ninja gets Shuriken at level 23. Which is right when you get your 24th Djinni. That easily cements Ninja > Page/Apprentice.

Seer is too high since I'm overrating his earlygame. Dropping to the bottom of Batman.

[Kriemhild]

Suddenly, I'm not too sure of Apprentice/Page's midgame... I mean, all it has are good stats and Astral Blast but it takes a while for Eruption or Mother Gaia to kick in. I'm starting to think that Ninja might be better since you'll have one for Colosso and it can easily dispose of all three fights.

Oh and Toadonpa can be 4 turned now. But Ivan and Mia needs to be at level 21 (had to do a wee bit of grinding with the Lure Cap on to get it) for High Impact.

FINALLY!!! Ninja finally made it up there. I have no objections to that part of the tier list now.

I can 2 turn it in a Summon Rush but that's bullshit in my opinion.

lol, you can summon rush a lot of bosses but that has nothing to do with classes so those strategies are irrelevant on this thread. In fact, I even prefer using offensive Djinn over Psynergy when there is/are only one/two generic monsters but it doesn't change the fact that some classes with specific Psynergy perform better than others.

What the hell was I thinking with Medium > Ranger? Ranger is probably better than anything else in the GYS tier. Moving it to bottom of Joe Schmo.

Ninja gets Shuriken at level 23. Which is right when you get your 24th Djinni. That easily cements Ninja > Page/Apprentice.

Seer is too high since I'm overrating his earlygame. Dropping to the bottom of Batman.

Let me guess, you were thinking of Cure and Revive and Haunt/Curse/Condemn, right?

Also, I can't seem to beat Tret in three turns. My best record was four turns with everyone at Lv 8

Edited October 21, 2010 by Proto