Golden Sun Class Tier List

[Narga_Rocks]

lol, you can summon rush a lot of bosses but that has nothing to do with classes so those strategies are irrelevant on this thread. In fact, I even prefer using offensive Djinn over Psynergy when there is/are only one/two generic monsters but it doesn't change the fact that some classes with specific Psynergy perform better than others.

Including a 100% guaranteed 2 turn of Dullahan if you have enough +agi items. Works at level 40, probably lower. Arguably makes Dullahan easier than Doom Dragon. Guaranteed at least 3 turns for Doom Dragon. Impossible to beat that simply due to how the battle is programmed.

And yeah, I tend to go with offensive Djinn too. Particularly in GS1 where you can OHKO with Garet and Isaac a lot of the time. No HM makes it simple. Even 3 enemies can frequently be brought down on turn 1 with Mia and Ivan teaming up. Though early on sometimes I have to gamble on Gust. If it doubles, 1 turn battle, if not, 2 turn battle.

[Life]

Also, I can't seem to beat Tret in three turns. My best record was four turns with everyone at Lv 8

You want to post all the relevant stats? Maybe I can figure out a hypothetical 3 turn depending on how much damage you've done to Tret.

[Suichimo]

Including a 100% guaranteed 2 turn of Dullahan if you have enough +agi items. Works at level 40, probably lower. Arguably makes Dullahan easier than Doom Dragon. Guaranteed at least 3 turns for Doom Dragon. Impossible to beat that simply due to how the battle is programmed.

You can technically do it with everyone at minimum level. The only stats the Psynergy, non-EPA ones, and Summons run off of are the Elemental Power and Resistances for the appropriate Element.

[Narga_Rocks]

You can technically do it with everyone at minimum level. The only stats the Psynergy, non-EPA ones, and Summons run off of are the Elemental Power and Resistances for the appropriate Element.

Except to get 100% success you need to be fast enough that he can never ever attack (if he has a chance to do anything, he has a chance to Djinn Storm or Charon and royally screw you). If you can pull that off at minimum level, good for you. I wasn't certain. All it takes is 4 people faster (one having Lull set, so that could perhaps make things easier on one of them) and you are golden. Don't even need +power items if you use an earth adept for any Charons, a Jupiter Adept for Catastrophes, and a Mars Adept for Meteor or Daedalus. Not even sure they actually need that 104 power, but it'll probably help.

However, anything short of that and I should think that there is a chance, however small, of failure. I've seen a min-level summon rush of Dullahan. It ain't pretty and there are multiple opportunities to die. Then again, maybe the person should've just picked up more +agi items. It's possible. Can you get 3 characters to be faster than Dullahan in base classes? (Piers should be a little easier at level 18 so I'm assuming he's not a problem).

Actually, if you can get 3 characters faster (including Piers) I know a way to pull it off, though it requires a ton of +power items. Charon + Catastrophe + Mud/Vine + Lull in round 1 with lots of +power items then 200 power Charon + Catastrophe + a Meteor with as much +power as you can get. The Meteor summoner only needs to beat 121 agility instead of 241. I suppose you could maybe get away with not getting a 200 power Catastrophe if you have Feathered Robe + Aerial Gloves on two characters and use two Catastrophes in round 2. Not sure it would work. Then you'd only actually need two units to be faster and two others to have ~128+. But at that point I'm not sure you'd have the elemental power to KO with just 5 summons.

So,

turn 1

Charon

Mud

Lull

need 3 faster, actually

turn 2

4 summons that hopefully finish the guy. switch out one of the characters from round 1 that should be loaded up with 8 Earth to mostly power Charon for a new summon battery.

Unless you can get 4 characters to have 249+ agi, this is basically your limit. 5 summons. Dullahan must die in 5 summons, and 3 of your characters will have a ton of +agi items preventing boosting anything but Jupiter power (since Feathered Robe and Aerial Gloves give both agi and jupiter power). I am hesitant to believe that those 5 summons will be powerful enough.

oh, wait, i forgot a little trick. Ground. His first action is with 241 agi, but his second should be a fair amount lower.

So

Ground goes first automatically (use with slowest unit)

Dullahan can't move

Catastrophe

Mud

Lull

Dullahan's second and third turns get skipped

round 2

Catastrophe

Charon

Charon

Eclipse

or something like that. After two charons and 2 catastrophes, you have 2 earths, 4 jupiters, 12 mars, and 18 mercury remaining. With that, what's the best summon possible? Eclipse is probably it, though you'd need a second unit loaded up with +wind stuff. Then again, it is possible to have 2 feathered robes and 2 Swift Swords (one from shaman village, one from gs1), 2 leda's bracelets/aerial gloves. Only one Clarity Circlet, though. Still, that's a lot of wind power.

Mercury summons are probably bad ideas with the thing's water resist. And there is only one Warrior's Helm and Gaia Blade for +earth power. Which is part of why I'd rather Charon in round 1, but I highly doubt you could get to be fast enough without stacking many many +agi things. Even if you only need to get everyone in before attack #2.

Still need to get 3 characters faster than his second move and 4 characters faster than his 121 agi in round 2. I suspect, though, that his second move in round one is much faster than 121. Maybe around 180 or 190. Obviously Mysterious Card and Tomegathericon could help with the needed agi scores, since they have 130% and 140% agi in base class. Wind Seers also have 130%. apprentice and Page have 120% and Hermit (lull user can be a hermit) has 130%. Elven Shirt will multiply everything by another 1.5x, even things like Aerial Gloves and Ninja Hood and Quick/Golden Boots, so that could help, too. I don't think you can get two of these, though.

Hey Life Admiral, feel up to making a bunch of calculations and seeing if it can be done? Though we'd need to know Dullahan's attack #2 speed.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Kriemhild]

You want to post all the relevant stats? Maybe I can figure out a hypothetical 3 turn depending on how much damage you've done to Tret.

Just so you know, I summoned Ramses and Mars at the start of the battle to raise elemental power. Obviously, at this point in the game, summon rushing is not sufficient to kill a boss so it should still count, right?

As for the stats, I didn't actually write the numbers down in every attempt. I kept track of what I was doing so that I could get the exact numbers after I found a fast enough method. I'm actually checking these numbers right now while typing this post. Therefore, all values have a ± 3 damage variance. Sorry about that.

[spoiler=Relevant Stats, I hope?]Isaac

Spire (Knight/114 Venus Power) - 51 ± 3

Gaia (Illusionist/104 Venus Power - 47 ± 3

Blast (Brute/81 Mars Power) - 54 ± 3

Garet

Volcano (Guard/109 Mars Power) - 64 ± 3

Volcano (Illusionist/104 Mars Power) - 65 ± 3

Blast (Ruffian/104 Mars Power) - 58 ± 3

Ivan

Plasma (Magician/114 Jupiter Power) - 48 ± 3

Flash Bolt (Diviner/104 Jupiter Power) - 41 ± 3

Slash (Pilgrim/104 Jupiter Power) - 28 ± 3 (lol)

Also, just for fun, I decided to post this log where I really did kill him in three turns, but not in the way you wanted me to. Still, this shows that beating him with purely Psynergy of Lv 8 max in only 3 turns is impossible.

======

Turn 1

======

Ivan summons Atalanta!

Tret takes 104 damage!

Ivan's Wind Power rises by 30!

Isaac summons Ramses!

Tret takes 120 damage!

Isaac's Earth Power rises by 30!

Garet summons Mars!

Tret takes 72 damage!!!

Garet's Fire Power rise by 10!

======

Turn 2

======

Ivan uses an Oil Drop!

Tret takes 113 damage!!!

Isaac uses an Oil Drop!

Tret takes 111 damage!!!

Tret attacks!

Ivan takes 31 damage!

Garet casts Volcano!

Tret takes 64 damage!!!

Flint is set to Isaac!

Forge is set to Garet!

Gust is set to Ivan!

======

Turn 3

======

Ivan casts Plasma!

Tret takes 55 damage!

Isaac casts Spire!

Tret takes 54 damage!

Tret attacks!

Garet takes 23 damage!

Garet casts Volcano!

Tret takes 66 damage!!!

You felled Tret!

You got 226 experience points.

You got 700 coins.

You got a Potion.

Also, about Dully, I managed to deal almost 16000 damage (~15880 iirc) to him before he even moved (yes, I used Lull) and that was WITHOUT switching anybody (it was a challenge playthrough with one of the restrictions being no usage of Isaac's gang). It does, however, require everyone to be faster. But even if one or two people are slower, then I'm sure, by switching to generate more Standby Djinn, it should be possible to kill him before he moves. Those Agility boosting items that Narga mentioned help a lot over here.

[Life]

Well, I've started incorporating summons into my strategies but they're calculated summons. Toadonpa, for example, requires me to use Kite, Granite, Smog, Sleet and Hail before summoning on Turn 4.

When going as fast as possible with bosses, a mix of Djinn, Psynergy and Summons is probably your best bet for how painless it can be (I don't like having Wind Seer!Ivan with no Jupiter open for an attack).

Calculations will come in a bit, just gotta do some other stuff and think up a strategy.

Here's a bit of the summons. No math, just info.

Base Damage = Summon Base + [Target's Max HP * 3 * Djinn Used / 100]

Once the Summon Base and element has been determined, we apply the

finishing touched: random variance and the Psynergy Power Multiplier factor

in, like all Magical damage. In addition, they are all (with two exceptions)

magical area attacks that use the *SUMMON* diminishing ratio. Since they do

not have a range of A(ll), they are subject to reduced damage against

off-centre targets.

Catastrophe   A   400  24 |||||6||||| Reduce Target's PP by 10% of Max PP
Charon        E   500  30 |||||6||||| Inflict 'Downed'
Eclipse       A   300  15 |||||6||||| -25% Attack : 50% Max

Basically for Charon, we're tacking on an extra 30% of Dullahan's HP. Ouch.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Narga_Rocks]

Catastrophe   A   400  24 |||||6||||| Reduce Target's PP by 10% of Max PP
Charon        E   500  30 |||||6||||| Inflict 'Downed'
Eclipse       A   300  15 |||||6||||| -25% Attack : 50% Max

Basically for Charon, we're tacking on an extra 30% of Dullahan's HP. Ouch.

there's a reason I use Charon here.

Isaac can reach 149 earth power with 104 + 20 (Gaia Blade) + 10 (Warrior's Helm) + 5 (GS1 Spirit Gloves) + 10 (Planet Armor). However, with no djinn set up it's almost mandatory to use Aerial Gloves, so 144 earth power. I think even with the Tomegathericon he needed extra agility.

Point is, that 30% is quite impressive when you don't have a damage reduction from lacking earth power. With only 104 earth power, though, that's -45/200 x damage. So whatever the base damage is, subtract 22.5%. Catastrophe can beat it pretty easily unless you really lay on the earth power. At 200 elemental power each, though, Charon beats Catastrophe by around 200. 4300 to 4100, or thereabouts. I forget precisely.

Anyway, in 2 rounds you have a max of 45 djinn you can summon. 2 Catastrophes + 2 Charons + Eclipse is 41 djinn, so there is some leeway. Also, that summon set will take up 17 Jupiters, which is fine since you can Lull and have the freedom to switch out the guy that Lulls for someone else.

Alternatively, since Aerial Gloves and Feathered Robe give +40 Jupiter Power as well as +60 agility, you could use 3 Catastrophes + 1 Eclipse, provided you find a way to utilize Lull in a summon in round 2. That won't be enough to actually KO Dullahan, though, so you'd need to summon Azul or Haurus in round 2 since you lack Jupiter options. Not sure that would be strong enough. Daedalus is summonable, but you'd need to do so in round 1 if you want any point in trying, and you'd let Dullahan attack you a bunch in round 2 (if everyone dies, no Missile I think. Jumps to round 3 with the other group of 4. Not 100% sure though. Maybe get Missile regardless).

[Life]

More changes!

- Seer is moving down to under Enchanter (Ivan) Joe Schmo since I'm STILL overrating its earlygame abilities compared to how good Ivan can actually be as a physical unit.

- Squire is moving down a bit since I can't see it having any lategame use aside from the Storm Lizard.

- I'm completely not impressed with Samurai and I will argue until I drop that Cavalier (Mia) is much more clutch than him.

I'm having problems determining which is better, Pilgrim or Ranger. Someone want to play Devil's Advocate with me?

Edited October 22, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Suichimo]

More changes!

- Seer is moving down to under Enchanter (Ivan) Joe Schmo since I'm STILL overrating its earlygame abilities compared to how good Ivan can actually be as a physical unit.

- Squire is moving down a bit since I can't see it having any lategame use aside from the Storm Lizard.

- I'm completely not impressed with Samurai and I will argue until I drop that Cavalier (Mia) is much more clutch than him.

I'm having problems determining which is better, Pilgrim or Ranger. Someone want to play Devil's Advocate with me?

How are you even finding Cavalier(Mia) too be good?

[Life]

How are you even finding Cavalier(Mia) too be good?

You have no idea how good Cavalier (Mia) truly is.

She has the Ply series. She has the Wish series. She's got revive. She's got a pretty strong move in Briar (70 Dam)... and it really freaking early so she's guaranteed to have it once you have access to the class. She's got Cutting Edge and a 130% Att bonus (highest boost she can get) and if you toss the Vambrace or Battle Gloves on her, you're ready to rock. Her bonuses are solid across the board.

Cavalier (Mia) is the best class of the midgame for her and in general, in my opinion. Which completely surprised me, mind you.

[Suichimo]

You have no idea how good Cavalier (Mia) truly is.

She has the Ply series.

No one cares about Ply after you get Wish.

and it really freaking early so she's guaranteed to have it once you have access to the class.

The Psynergy may be early in level, but you're not hitting Cavalier with Mia until you have 6 Venus Djinni and that isn't until late in the game.

She's got Cutting Edge and a 130% Att bonus (highest boost she can get) and if you toss the Vambrace or Battle Gloves on her, you're ready to rock.

She also has the worst weapon selection which gives her the lowest attack. A Cutting Edge off of her is not going to hurt that badly.

Her bonuses are solid across the board.

I wouldn't exactly call those bonuses "solid".

Cavalier(E) HP 140% PP 110% Atk 130% Def 130% Agi 110% Lck 120%

Cavalier (Mia) is the best class of the midgame for her and in general, in my opinion. Which completely surprised me, mind you.

Cavalier is nowhere near the best class for her, at any point. Hermit and White Mage both give access to the Shine, Prism, and Wish series. Hermit gets the Impact series, White Mage gets the Ward and Dull series. White Mage even gets Revive.

Also, their bonuses are much more solid than the Cavalier's.

Hermit: HP 150% PP 180% Atk 120% Def 130% Agi 170% Lck 120%

White Mage: HP 150% PP 180% Atk 130% Def 130% Agi 150% Lck 130%

Edited October 22, 2010 by Suichimo

[Life]

No one cares about Ply after you get Wish.

Actually, you do. There are times that I'd rather spend 8 PP and heal just one guy for 200+ than 13 PP for only 80 PP. And I've experienced a lot of those times with a party that only has Wish as my healing (almost max Djinni).

The Psynergy may be early in level, but you're not hitting Cavalier with Mia until you have 6 Venus Djinni and that isn't until late in the game.

1. Your point is? Note that Ninja comes into existence in Altmiller Cave but if you don't want to screw your party to have him, he doesn't really exist until Suhalla, after Toadonpa's been knocked out.

2. You get 6 Venus before 6 of anything else. What are you going to do with them? Go Medium? Great idea.

She also has the worst weapon selection which gives her the lowest attack. A Cutting Edge off of her is not going to hurt that badly.

It might not be at Samurai!Isaac's level but it can definitely hold its own when it does about 120+ damage to stuff that isn't even Water weak.

I wouldn't exactly call those bonuses "solid".

With the exception of Agi, they're incredibly solid for Mia. Mia already has a high PP and Luk base. Cavalier just improves on stuff that isn't so great with her regularly. If you're going to bitch about 1.1 Agi, toss her an Agi item (pretty sure that you get the Ninja Hood from the Tolbi Springs).

Cavalier is nowhere near the best class for her, at any point. Hermit and White Mage both give access to the Shine, Prism, and Wish series. Hermit gets the Impact series, White Mage gets the Ward and Dull series. White Mage even gets Revive.

Also, their bonuses are much more solid than the Cavalier's.

Look at the Djinni that both White Mage and Hermit require. Hermit wants Wind while White Mage is Wind (4) and Earth (3). Wind is contested to the point of stupidity, what with Ninja, Samurai and Page/Apprentice floating around. Who really wants Earth?

Squire!Isaac: Doesn't see playtime after earlygame with the exception of the Storm Lizard.

Brute!Garet: I could use the terrible argument of "there are better classes floating around" but it comes down to the fact that Garet does not have the PP to spam Planet Diver every turn and using magic is a waste of his abysmal PP.

Ninja!Garet: This involves using a Medium in the party. No.

Enchanter!Ivan: Feasible but he doesn't make as much use out of it as Mia does since Mother Gaia waits until level 24 to make an appearance.

Seer!Ivan: Even worse. He's got Blue Bolt for 90 Dam (Mother Gaia comes 2 levels later with 10 more Dam) and Mad Growth before that. Yippie.

Medium!Ivan/Mia: Hahahahaha... in your dreams.

So please. Tell me who uses 6 Venus better than Mia. Please.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Suichimo]

Actually, you do. There are times that I'd rather spend 8 PP and heal just one guy for 200+ than 13 PP for only 80 PP. And I've experienced a lot of those times with a party that only has Wish as my healing (almost max Djinni).

And I find situations where only one party member is injured rare. Ply is almost never worth it to me.

1. Your point is? Note that Ninja comes into existence in Altmiller Cave but if you don't want to screw your party to have him, he doesn't really exist until Suhalla, after Toadonpa's been knocked out.

2. You get 6 Venus before 6 of anything else. What are you going to do with them? Go Medium? Great idea.

1. The point is, it doesn't matter how early the Thorns series comes, you're still waiting until you have 6 Venus Djinni for it. Also, how are you screwing your party by getting a Ninja at the earliest possible point?

2. Split them among the group?

It might not be at Samurai!Isaac's level but it can definitely hold its own when it does about 120+ damage to stuff that isn't even Water weak.

Calculations? Because, I don't really see that with the physically weakest character in the game.

With the exception of Agi, they're incredibly solid for Mia. Mia already has a high PP and Luk base. Cavalier just improves on stuff that isn't so great with her regularly. If you're going to bitch about 1.1 Agi, toss her an Agi item (pretty sure that you get the Ninja Hood from the Tolbi Springs).

And White Mage/Hermit are almost completely better in all fields, in fact White Mage is equal of better than Cavalier where Hermit has 10% less attack and a whopping 60% extra Agi.

Look at the Djinni that both White Mage and Hermit require. Hermit wants Wind while White Mage is Wind (4) and Earth (3). Wind is contested to the point of stupidity, what with Ninja, Samurai and Page/Apprentice floating around. Who really wants Earth?

Squire!Isaac: Doesn't see playtime after earlygame with the exception of the Storm Lizard.

Brute!Garet: I could use the terrible argument of "there are better classes floating around" but it comes down to the fact that Garet does not have the PP to spam Planet Diver every turn and using magic is a waste of his abysmal PP.

Ninja!Garet: This involves using a Medium in the party. No.

Enchanter!Ivan: Feasible but he doesn't make as much use out of it as Mia does since Mother Gaia waits until level 24 to make an appearance.

Seer!Ivan: Even worse. He's got Blue Bolt for 90 Dam (Mother Gaia comes 2 levels later with 10 more Dam) and Mad Growth before that. Yippie.

Medium!Ivan/Mia: Hahahahaha... in your dreams.

So please. Tell me who uses 6 Venus better than Mia. Please.

Garet would like some of the Venus Djinni to go Samurai and Mia or Ivan would like some of them to go White Mage. They're getting split up.

[Life]

1. The point is, it doesn't matter how early the Thorns series comes, you're still waiting until you have 6 Venus Djinni for it. Also, how are you screwing your party by getting a Ninja at the earliest possible point?

2. Split them among the group?

Garet would like some of the Venus Djinni to go Samurai and Mia or Ivan would like some of them to go White Mage. They're getting split up.

You're not looking at the party as a whole.

I can satisfy Garet's wildest dreams and make him a Ninja ASAP but what does that leave us with?

3 Earth

5 Fire

3 Wind

5 Water

So great, we're going to go with Mia as a Medium, Isaac as a Barbarian and Ivan as a Savant as our best options. Ivan's in his best class, Mia is unusable and Isaac is below average with 100% PP. Great.

Alternatively, we can have Mia as a Cavalier (6 Earth), Ivan as an Ascetic (1 Wind, 5 Fire), Garet as a Ascetic (6 Water) and Isaac can be an Enchanter (1 Fire, 5 Wind). Isaac is still good with Astral Blast, Garet is quite good with healing, Cutting Edge and a slew of great magical psynergy moves, Mia is fantastic and Ivan does pretty well with the PP to back up Eruption.

So I can have 4 really good adepts or 2 really good, 1 mediocre and 1 terrible. Which means that Cavalier (Mia) does more for the team than Ninja on TOP of already being a good class.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Suichimo]

You're not looking at the party as a whole.

I can satisfy Garet's wildest dreams and make him a Ninja ASAP but what does that leave us with?

3 Earth

5 Fire

3 Wind

5 Water

So great, we're going to go with Mia as a Medium, Isaac as a Barbarian and Ivan as a Savant as our best options. Ivan's in his best class, Mia is unusable and Isaac is below average with 100% PP. Great.

Alternatively, we can have Mia as a Cavalier (6 Earth), Ivan as an Ascetic (1 Wind, 5 Fire), Garet as a Ascetic (6 Water) and Isaac can be an Enchanter (1 Fire, 5 Wind). Isaac is still good with Astral Blast, Garet is quite good with healing, Cutting Edge and a slew of great magical psynergy moves, Mia is fantastic and Ivan does pretty well with the PP to back up Eruption.

So I can have 4 really good adepts or 2 really good, 1 mediocre and 1 terrible. Which means that Cavalier (Mia) does more for the team than Ninja on TOP of already being a good class.

Why is Garet getting Ninja? I'd be putting Isaac there. So that would leave us with:

6 Earth

2 Fire

3 Wind

5 Water

Garet could go Barbarian(5 Earth), Ivan would love Savant(5 Water), and, yeah, Mia gets hosed a bit but Elder(3 Wind) isn't too bad.

Leaves both of your Mars Djinni and one of your Earth Djinni open.

You've got two absolute beasts in the form of Ninja!Isaac and Barbarian!Garet. A great Magical attacker in Ivan, and even Mia should be doing ok, with the strongest Jupiter and Mercury offensive psynergy, along with Wish and the Impact series.

[Kriemhild]

Pilgrim vs Ranger. Ranger has superior stats to Ascetic in everything. Ranger is also one of the only two classes in the game that can hit the enemy with three of the four elements. So even though the Ranger's Psynergy may seem pretty weak (except for the Volcano series), they'll be hitting their enemies weak point quite frequently. The Pilgrim series fails earlygame since it needs 4 Djinn to get Volcano or Ward/Wish. Mercury Ascetic is okay though, because Wish is awesome, but Mia automatically gets Wish from every single 4 Djinn class anyway. Jupiter Ascetic isn't too good though. I'll say that Ivan likes Ranger a whole lot more than the Pilgrim series while Mia hates both those classes (Piers would like it though, in TLA). I'll say Ranger > Pilgrim.

Now, about Cavalier!Mia, how is it that the best person to hold 6 Djinn should use it in a way that gives a class that someone else can access with 4 Djinn? You know, there is a very simple reason as to why every single class that Isaac/Garet can complete contains at least one EPA while absolutely none of the classes that Ivan/Mia can complete have any EPAs whatsoever. Ivan and Mia can't use broadswords and are not suited for physical attacks. Even in TLA, Flame User didn't get any EPAs but Mariner did, for the same reason. Okay, fine, maybe Ivan wouldn't mind using EPAs but Mia can't even use light swords. Solid stats across the board??? 110% PP is just low. Hermit 140%, Pilgrim 120%, Seer 130%, and Water Seer 130%. All four of those classes require only ONE Djinn (Water Seer none) while Cavalier requires 6 and still loses in PP. Good luck using Wish with that PP value. Speaking of Wish, all four of those classes get Wish after the 4-Djinn upgrade. So, she gets Ply, eh? But she already gets Wish no matter what so wouldn't it be better to have something else like Impact?

And I would much rather have Barbarian!Garet over Cavalier!Mia. Also, Medium has Blue Bolt (90 damage, 14 PP), Cure series, Revive, and actually has very good stats. Almost as good as Savant even. It also gives Ivan the second best Attack stat after Enchanter. It's not really such a great class, I agree, but I would much rather have Ivan as a Medium to carry the Venus Djinn (it won't be for long anyway) than Mia with her horrid Cavalier class. Ninja+Medium > Cavalier!Mia+[insert 5 Djinn class here] imo. You worry about wasting too much PP on Wish when that wouldn't be a problem in any of her high-PP classes. And I still don't understand how she can be fantastic with Cutting Edge.

[Suichimo]

I completed another run through of the first game and can say that the party I mentioned before is definitely good. Isaac is a powerhouse, he had more attack power at 27-28 than my Isaac from my first game who was level 32 in the Squire series, along with Garet who actually managed to keep up with him as a Berserker. Ivan did great as a Savant and Mia even reach the 4 djinni upgrade, in the same series, to get the Wish series.

I also realized that I now believe the Swift Sword to be the strongest weapon in the first game, Isaac was hitting for about 4-500 with 3 strikes, which is fairly common.

Now I need to work up the will to copy down the Gold code, don't have GBAs anymore, so I can transfer it over and start a playthrough on TLA.