FE7 character ratings

[Inui]

Yay Marcus! I'm surprised you didn't bring up giving Marcus a Speedwing. He's one of the ideal candidates for it. He's borderline on doubling a lot of things. The +2 Spd lets him double everything that isn't very difficult to double (Mercs, Myrms, some promoted stuff, some bosses, etc.) and his Str and access to amazing weapons will let him get the kill in almost all cases.

I find your ratings of Oswin and Eliwood to be a bit low, but don't care enough to debate it.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Inui

[dondon151]

At least keep at this longer than Soul did, please. I'm highly enjoying seeing things laid out in such a meticulous fashion as compared to the haphazard ratings done by most others like, uh, me.

Thank you.

I've argued insta-promoted Rath before. And I call bullshit on account that he still needs, you know, 3 levels to promotion. And I'm not fielding him in 23. Not when you have 6 deployment spots before Hector and Hawkeye.

First of all, it's 7 deployment slots. Hawkeye joins in the middle of the chapter. Second, you're overestimating the necessity of units in chapter 23. You'll pretty much need 2 fliers and a thief to reliably find treasure, and a staff user and Ninian to pad the EXP necessary to reach 23x. You'll need a strong combat unit for the reinforcements in the southwest, but you don't even need that if one of your fliers is strong enough already. Assuming that, you have Rath, Hawkeye, and a strong combat unit ready to take on the entire right side. 3 levels for Rath is easy.

And, you know, I've done this before. I'm not posting the video yet because I'm going to commentate it, but I don't just pull stuff out of my ass when I write these.

Bullshit. Ninian. It's like you said with Tethys. Even if she's not around for half of the game, there's no reason to not field her when she is. She's just that good.

You know what's funny is that I can actually say the same thing about Marcus.

Why do Oswin and Hector have the same score? I'd think Hector being forced alone should do that since he'll be tagging along and helping in some way throughout the game, while Oswin will probably be dropped, but I haven't played in a long time, so...

I have to say, Oswin is a bit more helpful earlygame than Hector due to better durability and generally better offense. And Hector is a lot like Oswin with free deployment - if he has trouble keeping up, he won't be able to contribute anything significant anyway. So that's why they get the same score.

Yay Marcus! I'm surprised you didn't bring up giving Marcus a Speedwing. He's one of the ideal candidates for it. He's borderline on doubling a lot of things. The +2 Spd lets him double everything that isn't very difficult to double (Mercs, Myrms, some promoted stuff, some bosses, etc.) and his Str and access to amazing weapons will let him get the kill in almost all cases.

They come kind of late, though, but I will include that.

[Galenforcer]

If you haven't quite noticed, these ratings don't take Ranks into account.

I probably assumed that when he gave Matthew a pretty low score.

[Florete]

Bullshit. Ninian. It's like you said with Tethys. Even if she's not around for half of the game, there's no reason to not field her when she is. She's just that good.

Wait, are you saying Ninian is the best character in the game?

[Life]

Wait, are you saying Ninian is the best character in the game?

Yes. I am.

[dondon151]

Lowen

Advantages

Physical durability: Lowen's niche among the cavaliers in the game is his excellent physical durability. With 23 HP, 7 def at base, Lowen already starts with a durability lead over Kent's 20 HP, 5 def and Sain's 19 HP, 6 def bases, and they only increase from there - Lowen's 90% HP, 40% def growths are first and third in the game, respectively (again excluding Merlinus). For example, in chapter 18, Lowen at 10/0 with 30.2 HP, 10.2 def on average is 5-6HKO'd by 16-17 atk Steel Sword mercenaries after WTD; in comparison, an 11/0 Sain with 27 HP, 8 def on average is 4HKO'd. Later on, assuming Lowen is around 15/2 in chapter 26 with 37.6 HP, 14.6 def on average, he is 7-10HKO'd by 20-21 atk Iron Lance WKs and 5HKO'd by 23-24 atk Steel Lance WKs after WTD. Good physical durability opens up possibilities for more extensive enemy phases, although its value decreases later on as competing units catch up in durability parameters and defensive reaver weapons become commonly available.

Mounted: Lowen has a horse for the entire game, and while he is no Marcus, the extra movement enables him to encounter more combat and consequently possess a higher rate of EXP gain compared to infantry units. When he's not attacking, he can pick up an infantry unit for a future purpose; Lowen also has the defensive parameters to take a round of combat when carrying another unit.

Weapon triangle: Lowen can wield lances and swords before promotion, and axes after. Control of the weapon triangle supplements his already good physical durability.

Availability: Being the one of two earlygame mounted units, and a fairly durable one at that, Lowen performs decently enough earlygame, though he is overshadowed by Marcus and, to a large extent, Hector and Oswin.

Disadvantages

Offense: While Lowen's 7 str, 7 spd bases aren't bad, 30% str, 30% spd growths aren't really adequate for outstanding performance in the long run. Enemies in FE7 are slow enough to the point that Lowen's AS will be "good enough;" for example, after promotion, Lowen's 11.9 spd average at 15/1 is enough to double weighed down midgame enemies that hover around 5-7 AS, but he will not likely double enemies before then outside of the obvious soldiers and knights. The low str growth is more of a problem, though; Lowen at 15/3 in chapter 27 has 21.5 atk with Iron Axe after WTA on 33 HP, 12 def WKs, which is pretty far off from a 2HKO. The lategame ubiquity of killer weapons does somewhat offset this problem - the same Lowen has 35 crit with Killer Lance against the same WK, for a 57.75% chance at a ORKO, but this is not as reliable as the 100% chance of ORKO that some other units can reach.

Promotion: The Knight Crest's competition issues have already been highlighted, and Lowen's relatively inferior lategame performance kind of makes him a secondary option for a Knight Crest compared to Kent or Sain.

Summary

Being mounted in conjunction with having high availability already guarantee Lowen a place in an efficient playthrough (Marcus can't solo everything, just most things), but his relative lack of long term potential coupled with heavy competition for promotion slightly discourages long term use - after all, the player has access to 5 potential paladins, 5 fliers, and a handful of other mounted units in other roles, but only so many unit slots. But, regardless of Lowen's offensive woes, there is always value in deploying him just for the virtue of having 8 mounted move and decent combat with the assistance of some killer weapons.

Score: 8.5

Rebecca

Advantages

Availability: Rebecca is free to use earlygame, and potentially, chipping away at an enemy can let another unit like Eliwood or Lowen take the KO without risk of being countered.

Disadvantages

Bases: Quite honestly, terrible. 4 base str yields 10 base atk with Iron Bow, which does only 7 HP damage to a 24 HP, 3 def brigand in chapter 12. 6 spd doesn't double anything but soldiers, and 17 HP, 3 def is 2HKO'd by nearly everything, including 12 atk Iron Bow archers in chapters 12 and 13. Granted, Rebecca shouldn't really ever be taking attacks in the first place.

Enemy phase: Barring circumstances where the AI can be manipulated into attacking Rebecca on enemy phase while being countered, Rebecca has virtually no enemy phase. Rounds of combat where she can't counter are counterproductive to efficiency, not to mention that being limited to player phase attacks only has the ultimate effect of greatly limiting total offensive potential.

Rate of EXP gain: As an archer's purpose is typically to chip at enemies to secure KOs for other units, Rebecca won't likely be getting KO EXP. Combined with having only one attack per turn at best, under efficient assumptions it is pretty much not possible to give Rebecca enough levels to get her out of a rut.

Summary

Rebecca possesses most of the traits that units don't want to have, and her unsalvageable performance removes any possibility of long term use. At least being free to deploy earlygame salvages her from complete uselessness, but even her contributions then are almost nonexistent.

Score: 1.0

[Mekkah]

But dondon, with A Lowen/B Dart, 20/1 Rebecca dodges everything and has huge chances of critting at least once when double attacking with Killer Bow!!

[dondon151]

Dorcas

Advantages

Attack: Dorcas has a decent 7 str base with a 60% growth, the second highest in the game. That and access to axes, the strongest physical weapon type, let Dorcas hit hard. Granted, it's not near the level of Marcus or Oswin earlygame, but against enemies like a typical chapter 13 brigand with 25 HP, 4 def, Dorcas at 6/0 with 8.8 str on average does 13 HP damage with an Iron Axe, a clean 2HKO with all player units at that point except for Matthew, Eliwood, Lowen, and Rebecca. Essentially, Dorcas is more flexible earlygame with helping grab 2HKOs than the aforementioned units. Later in the game, Dorcas's high str growth allow him to keep up in per-hit damage - a 15/1 Dorcas with 15.8 str on average 2HKOs 32 HP, 12 def WKs using a Steel Axe (dealing around 16 HP damage per attack). As killers become available in that map, Dorcas can likely OHKO almost any enemy with a critical hit just by virtue of his sheer power. He's also a passable candidate for the Brave Axe, although that is a weapon better used on promoted or boss enemies.

Lyn mode: Dorcas isn't exactly the easiest unit to use in Lyn mode, and extra levels don't help very much, but it does significantly boost his earlygame damage output.

Availability: As if it hasn't been stated enough, being around earlygame when the team is weak and deployment is free immensely magnifies a unit's contribution towards an efficient playthrough. It also helps that, by virtue of his high HP, Dorcas is kind of bulky, for example being 4HKO'd on average at 8/0 (34 HP, 4.25 def) by 14 atk soldiers in chapter 14, and freeing up other units to deal with the rest of the map.

Disadvantages

Attack speed: Dorcas's 6 spd base isn't bad, but he is tied for the lowest spd growth in the game at 20%. And to make matters worse, fighters do not get +spd upon promotion. While FE7 boasts some rather slow enemies over most of the game, Dorcas even fails to double them - for example, the 15/1 Dorcas mentioned before in chapter 26 has only 8.4 spd on average, which is very far off from doubling even the slowest 6 AS Steel Lance WKs in chapter 26. Being doubled by mercenaries, myrmidons, and a handful of promoted enemies is particularly worrisome too, but the simple solution is to just not have Dorcas fight them.

Promotion: The game offers the player three obtainable Hero Crests prior to chapter 27, but the sad truth is that only one of them is easily obtainable - it is almost impossible to steal Oleg's Hero Crest in chapter 21 while clearing in 3 turns and equally impossible to obtain the buried Hero Crest in chapter 23 in 5-6 turns while also grabbing the other important buried treasure. The result is that Dorcas will likely never have a viable claim at promotion.

16 con: There are enough factors to discourage Dorcas's long term use already, and this is another one: Dorcas, being an infantry unit with 6 promoted move, will invariably lag behind the team, and can't be assisted by other promoted mounted units outside of Eliwood and Rath.

Summary

Dorcas is one of those earlygame units that's great as long as his deployment is free. Unfortunately, Dorcas is around just to smack things, and is initially already outclassed by units like Hector and Oswin - other units who fill different niches can easily claim Dorcas's deployment slot in an efficient playthrough. He also has some of the worst offensive long term potential of any unit in FE7, with a perpetual inability to double even the slowest of enemies. In the end, Dorcas is best benched when more promising characters come along.

Score: 5.0

Bartre

Advantages

Attack: Bartre's 9 str base is even higher than Dorcas's, although the latter has Lyn mode to even out the disparity. What this means is that Bartre can perform the same offensive tasks that Dorcas can perform earlygame. His 50% str growth is noticeably lower than Dorcas's, however, and combined with a level disadvantage, Bartre will find that his str perpetually lags behind Dorcas's; however, it is still fairly high.

Availability: Also like Dorcas, Bartre is a decent offensive unit earlygame when the team is weak, but is slightly less bulky due to Dorcas having Lyn mode levels. He'll still be 4HKO'd on average by the chapter 14 soldiers mentioned in Dorcas's analysis, though.

Disadvantages

Attack speed: Unlike Dorcas, Bartre has a 3 spd base, the worst in the game, and this has severe short term as well as long term implications. First, Bartre has a slight chance of being doubled by brigands in chapter 12, who usually have 6 AS but occasionally have 7 AS (thankfully, he is not 2HKO'd). Second, as long as Bartre is still at base spd, he cannot double and ORKO soldiers, who perpetually have 0 AS. Lastly, a 15/1 Bartre has less average spd than a 15/1 Dorcas (8.2 spd vs. 8.4 spd), despite having a 20% higher spd growth, so Bartre will experience the same lategame problems that Dorcas experiences.

Promotion: The same as Dorcas, although I suppose one can consider Bartre to be even a worse choice for promotion than Dorcas is.

Summary

Bartre is essentially a slightly inferior Dorcas earlygame, which could have been forgivable if the situation reversed lategame, but that isn't the case - Bartre has all of the same problems that Dorcas has and more, and is also best benched when more promising characters come along.

Score: 4.0

Edited December 7, 2010 by dondon151

[Colonel M]

My logic has no faults

[Anouleth]

I wanted to respond to this, but forgot.

Not only is this absurdly late, but Matthew's combat parameters are poor anyway, and the promotion bonuses are incredibly lame.

I don't know what made IS give out such cruddy promotion bonuses in some FEs. I mean, compare promotion bonuses in FE6 to FE7, they're lower almost across the board.

Although I guess not starting out with E in every new weapon rank is nice, though.

[dondon151]

Although I guess not starting out with E in every new weapon rank is nice, though.

Only for lords, monks, and unpromoted staff users. It always annoys me to no end that falcoknights get E swords when they use them better than lances due to less AS loss.

[Anouleth]

Only for lords, monks, and unpromoted staff users. It always annoys me to no end that falcoknights get E swords when they use them better than lances due to less AS loss.

Yeah, that's why I love FE8 Syrene. C Swords is enough for Killing Edges and Lancereavers, and she even has the good sense to join in range of an armory selling those things. Shame she doesn't have A Swords for Silvers, but you can't have everything.

But things are better in FE8 for other characters, too. Heroes get C Swords, Sages get C Anima, Mage Knight gets C Anima.

[Colonel M]

Warriors are also annoying. Having D Bows would've been generous enough considering they don't even get + Spd upon promotion, but supposedly IS has some sick and twisted idea that Warriors only need E Bows just to piss you off. Granted that oftentimes Hand Axes are superior to Bows, but Bows also have effective Might on flying enemies which would've helped a hell of a lot in games like FE6 or even FEDS.

[grandjackal]

I'm surprised the early silver axe was not brought up. Then again, I guess I'm not sure how much it's needed, seeing as how Marcus can killinate anything and everything early, Hector's got his stuff going on anyways, and Dorcas...Needs 110 to get there....

I know nothing about FE7 efficient play, so this is enlightning to read. Just a bit surprised there was no mention about that early piece of silver.

[dondon151]

I know nothing about FE7 efficient play, so this is enlightning to read. Just a bit surprised there was no mention about that early piece of silver.

With Marcus, Hector, and Oswin dominating the enemy phases, getting 110 WEXP is actually kind of hard. Marcus goes from A to S lances in the span of like, 4 chapters, but Dorcas takes many times longer, and the Silver Axe doesn't really help all that much. He gets to OHKO magic users and PKs... and that's about it.

[dondon151]

Guy

Advantages

Bases: For the point in the game when Guy joins, his bases are fairly good, helped in part by HHM bonuses. 13 spd is the highest on the team (barring a Lyn mode Matthew) and doubles your typical mage, brigand, or archer in chapter 13x without any effort (those hover around 5-7 AS), which is a trait shared only by Marcus and Matthew. Sadly, he falls short of doubling the 11 AS mercenaries and myrmidons on the map. 8 str is not excellent by any means, but it's about what Lowen should have at this point, and combined with frequent double attacking make Guy a potently offensive earlygame unit. He does, however, have the annoying tendency to not be able to cleanly 2HKO any enemy type at this point in the game with only an Iron Sword.

Attack speed: Not only does Guy's 13 spd base allow him double many enemies right off the bat, but his 70% spd growth (tied for the highest non-Merlinus spd growth in the game) ensures that no enemies escape from the near certainty of being doubled. Guy only needs 1 spd proc to double 10 AS mercenaries and myrmidons in chapter 14, and since Guy has both a higher spd growth and a higher rate of EXP gain than enemies, the difference will only continue to grow. Guy's high spd is slightly hampered by his poor 5 con, which prevents him from doubling with the chapter 14 Iron Blade for a short time - Steel Swords are not available until chapter 16, and the Killing Edge should be moderately conserved - but it does let him muster enough atk to ORKO, for example, soldiers in chapter 15, with 6/0 Guy having 16.9 atk with Iron Blade after factoring WTD against 28 HP, 2 def. After a few level ups, however, Guy should have no problems trading AS for atk; an 8/0 Guy with 11.5 AS on average with Steel Sword equipped will still be able to double, for example, 6 AS archers in chapter 17 (but will have to switch back to Iron Swords against mercenaries, myrmidons, and nomads). Lategame, Guy will likely be one of the only units on the team who can naturally double fast promoted enemies such as 16-17 AS heroes in chapter 29.

Critical bonus: Guy gets +15 crit upon promotion, which aids him against enemies that he normally 3 or 4HKOs. In chapter 26, something like a 13/3 Guy has 22.6 atk (after WTA) and 33.5 crit on average (S swords) with Lancereaver against a 32 HP, 12 def WK, a 55.1% to 56.4% chance at an ORKO.

Availability: Guy provides the team with much needed offense earlygame and is therefore a valuable asset in that respect.

Disadvantages

Sword lock: Being locked to the weakest physical weapon type does not complement Guy's rather middling str well, but more importantly, it removes combat opportunities for a good portion of enemy phases, as Guy cannot counter enemies from 2 range. Forcing him to partake in rounds of nonprofitable combat is inefficient, and as a result, Guy is a mostly player phase oriented character.

Attack: Touched on above, but this is really a huge disadvantage for Guy. 8 base str isn't bad, but 30% str growth is mediocre at best. The result is that Guy cannot cleanly 2HKO most physically durable enemy classes for most of the game, and the standards for "physically durable" are quite low in this case. A 13/4 Guy in chapter 27 cannot even 2HKO mercenaries with a Killing Edge, boasting 20.9 atk against 30 HP, 7 def. Consequently, Guy is forced to rely on critical hits to achieve KOs, and the chances for those are pretty high - with 59 crit, approximately 83.2% in that particular case - but 83.2% is not the 100% ORKO rate that many other characters can achieve, and poor reliability does not constitute a good characteristic of a unit.

Promotion: The Hero Crest competition situation does not hurt Guy as badly as it does Dorcas or Bartre, but Guy still has very strong competition in the form of Raven for what is likely a sole Hero Crest before chapter 27. Comparing their respective potentials in the long run, Guy pretty easily loses out.

Summary

Guy is a great earlygame offensive unit, but he is not without severe flaws. An average str base coupled with a poor growth causes issues reliably damaging enemies throughout the game, and the lack of enemy phase potential is always troublesome. Guy occupies a rather unique niche, but unique doesn't necessarily mean useful. There are simply better units out there who can serve much more helpful roles than Guy can. I should also point out that a lot of Guy's unique utility is partially obsoleted by the introduction of buyable killers in chapter 26 and by brave weapons, the former giving any unit the opportunity to mimic the chance-based offense that Guy relies on and the latter allowing any unit to double the tougher enemies that Guy is suited to fight against.

Score: 6.0

Erk

Advantages

Magic: Magic is typically considered to be a notable advantage over physical weaponry, as nearly all magic has 1-2 range innate to it and target a generally much lower enemy res stat. Against a chapter 14 cavalier, assuming that two units have equal atk on the physical and magic ends, the magic unit will typically do 6-8 HP damage more per strike. Later in the game, the difference can be as great as 10-11 HP damage for enemies like WKs. The consequence of having access to magic is that Erk has the capability of easily damaging units that physical units do poorly against and does not mind partaking in enemy phase combat, as he will almost always be able to counter an enemy.

Offense: Related to the above point, magic can only be considered an asset over physical attacks if the magic user has the mag stat to back it up. Erk's mag stat is rather middling, with 5 base and 40% growth, but it's enough to take advantage of the common def-res gap in most enemy units. Additionally, Erk has a decent 7 base spd with a modest 50% growth, and loses only 1 AS from equipping the easily accessible Thunder, so although he doesn't double most enemies for a short period of time in earlygame, he should be able to reach at least 11/0 for 12 AS with Fire by chapter 20 to double 7-8 AS cavaliers. In that scenario, Erk has 14 atk to their 28 HP, 1 res, narrowly falling short of an ORKO. Later on, if we assume Erk to be 15/1 by chapter 26, 19.6 atk and 14 AS with Thunder will ORKO all 32 HP, 12 def WKs on the map regardless of weapon.

Lyn mode: Erk has a decent period of availability in Lyn mode to gain some levels and enhance his base stats for when he rejoins in chapter 14. He's also not a terrible candidate for the Angelic Robe to enhance his durability and enemy phase potential, but there are far superior choices out there.

Availability: Chapter 14 no longer counts as being particularly early, but at this point in the game the player only has limited options for dealing damage to physically durable units (i.e. knights), and Erk is an easy and cheap way to off them. He also helps facilitate 2HKOs by virtue of his rather large chip damage when he doesn't double.

Disadvantages

Physical durability: Erk's physical durability bases are pretty bad at 17 HP, 2 def, and the growths (65% HP, 20% def) don't help to a significant extent. While Erk's enemy phase combat is strong and accurate, don't expect him to partake in more than 2 rounds of combat from full HP. A 7/0 Erk with 20.9 HP, 3.2 def can just barely survive 2 rounds of combat from 13 atk Iron Bow archers and nomads, but 15 atk Iron Lance soldiers and 18 atk Steel Lance knights are a bit too much for him. The Angelic Robe does help change a couple of 2HKOs into 3HKOs, but as said before, they are better used on other units. Later in the game, Erk's HP growth and promotion bonuses alleviate the physical durability problem somewhat, but a 15/1 Erk with 30.1 HP, 7.8 def is still 3HKO'd by 20-21 atk Iron Lance WKs and 2HKO'd by 23-24 atk Steel Lance WKs in chapter 26.

Promotion: Similar to the Hero Crest, there are 3 obtainable Guiding Rings before chapter 27, but in an efficient playthrough only the one in chapter 20 is easily obtainable. Competition for the sole Guiding Ring is fierce, and each unit has something unique to gain. Erk falls slightly short in that respect, gaining a barely workable E staves upon promotion.

Summary

Upon joining, Erk takes up a somewhat valuable niche, and continues to be a strong performer with high chip damage and passable enemy phase potential. However, he still lacks the traits of an outstanding unit, having the movement range and type of a standard infantry unit and not enough durability to really dominate enemy phases. Regardless, he doesn't do too badly in the long run, but he admittedly isn't the best basket to put one's eggs in on an efficient playthrough.

Score: 6.5

[Florete]

I know this is your rating topic and all, but since when has "efficiency" been described as "get the absolute minimum possible turn count?" All this talk of missing most of the promotion items and early promotions in general (13/3 Guy) doesn't seem like anything I've seen before.

Oh, and how exactly do you visit the Armory in 26 with Vaida looming overhead?

[dondon151]

I know this is your rating topic and all, but since when has "efficiency" been described as "get the absolute minimum possible turn count?" All this talk of missing most of the promotion items and early promotions in general (13/3 Guy) doesn't seem like anything I've seen before.

Since I've decided so. Welcome to my rating topic - don't say I didn't warn you, because I did propose that my insights would be interesting. What point is there in making a rating topic that's already been done before? Efficiency means all kinds of sacrifices for the faster good.

Regarding the seemingly arbitrary promotions, this is a lot like FE8 Sethskip, except slower. So pretty much every unit will be forced to promote before 20/0 to stay in the game. Also, a lot of units perform fairly well when promoted early.

Oh, and how exactly do you visit the Armory in 26 with Vaida looming overhead?

You can use the 4 flier strategy, or draw her out with Hawkeye on a peak.

Edited December 7, 2010 by dondon151

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh, and how exactly do you visit the Armory in 26 with Vaida looming overhead?

That's actually really easy with 1 promoted flier and the other 3 with 7 move. I never drew her at all and still visited both shops (two separate turns). Had to use sleep to save the southwest village though because I couldn't get a flier to get down there in time since all 4 were necessary to get the shops. Maybe if I reversed the order I wouldn't need sleep.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Florete]

Since I've decided so. Welcome to my rating topic - don't say I didn't warn you, because I did propose that my insights would be interesting. What point is there in making a rating topic that's already been done before? Efficiency means all kinds of sacrifices for the faster good.

I rest my case.

Regarding the seemingly arbitrary promotions, this is a lot like FE8 Sethskip, except slower. So pretty much every unit will be forced to promote before 20/0 to stay in the game. Also, a lot of units perform fairly well when promoted early.

I can see promoting early being reasonable, but I would think of waiting until more like 17 or 18, not 13-15. Whatever works, I guess.

And it would appear you're not rating Merlinus? (Not that I think you should, or anything, since he'd likely be weird to rate)

That's actually really easy with 1 promoted flier and the other 3 with 7 move. I never drew her at all and still visited both shops (two separate turns). Had to use sleep to save the southwest village though because I couldn't get a flier to get down there since all 4 were necessary to get the shops. Maybe if I reversed the order I wouldn't need sleep.

So I guess it wouldn't have been possible on my ranked run due to a lack of Farina?

[dondon151]

I can see promoting early being reasonable, but I would think of waiting until more like 17 or 18, not 13-15. Whatever works, I guess.

The reason I chose 13/0 as Guy's promotion is because he caps spd at 13/0. But, you could be 13/3 or 16/1, and it wouldn't make much of a difference at that point, but those levels where you didn't have 5 HP, 2 str, 2 def, 15 crit, and S swords could have made a difference.

I will admit, however, that the levels are based of impressions and extrapolations and not entirely actual experience, but at the same time, I consciously tried very hard to feed EXP to Bartre in my latest 0% playthrough, and he only reached 10/0 in chapter 19. And the last time I played significantly less efficiently, Guy reached 10/0 in chapter 18. Also, when I promoted Raven at 10/0 in chapter 20, he was only 10/4 by chapter 26. So I'm kind of drawing on these experiences to come up with level estimates.

Now, if Gergeshwan comes in and shows otherwise, then I will be glad to change the assumptions.

And it would appear you're not rating Merlinus? (Not that I think you should, or anything, since he'd likely be weird to rate)

Rating Merlinus would be utterly pointless.

So I guess it wouldn't have been possible on my ranked run due to a lack of Farina?

There's still the Hawkeye on a peak strategy. He's bulky enough to take 2 hits, and WTA with +40 avo leaves her with 28 hit (15.96 true). She has 17 crit to Hawkeye's 13 luk, but you're guaranteed to have at least 4 tactician stars. If you get hit, use a Vulnerary or Elixir. You could technically also use someone with a Lancereaver on a fort. Like... 13/3 Guy has 91 avo and faces 27 hit (but he gets 2HKO'd).

Edited December 7, 2010 by dondon151

[Narga_Rocks]

So I guess it wouldn't have been possible on my ranked run due to a lack of Farina?

Right, you have to buy one of them. I wasn't thinking.

No, I don't think it's possible to get a flier out. At least, not without more promoted. Maybe though. I wonder if 3 fliers with 8 move each + Hawkeye would be able to do it. I don't think so though. Flier A has to go to the shop and take the most move it can out. That's 7 in and 1 out. Then Flier B can go in 5 and out 3, leaving it 2 short. If it could get 1 short of getting out then Hawkeye could rescue from safety after your Flier C removes the hitchhiker (Flier A) from Flier B. Boots don't appear until later.

Instead, Hawkeye would have to go in range and there is no way to get him out since all your fliers have moved. Maybe Ninian could help. I'm not sure if Flier C can move forward, grab Flier A and run far enough for Ninian to dance. Then someone else takes Flier A away from Flier C and Flier C goes to collect Flier B.

I'm not sure if the mountains are positioned to allow it to work. Anyone using an emulator have a save for that chapter so I can try it out?

Not sure how reliable the Hawkeye strategy is. Or even the lancereaver one. Maybe you survive one turn, but what about the next? And it's only a maybe for many characters.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Salad Utensil]

Will characters be punished for turn cost in recruitment (i.e. Canas since you have to go to his gaiden chapter)?

[dondon151]

No in your specific case, and I don't think I will in general, but I will definitely bring up recruitment costs as a disadvantage when it is applicable.

I also like to assume that all gaiden chapters are visited outside of 19xx.

[Life]

Not sure how reliable the Hawkeye strategy is. Or even the lancereaver one. Maybe you survive one turn, but what about the next? And it's only a maybe for many characters.

Hawkeye strategy is reliable. I KO'd Vaida on my HNM run (wish I didn't, I could have used a statbooster if I had just let her join) and I'm assuming that there's not much of a difference between HNM and HHM when it comes to Vaida's stats and her Uber Spear.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Cthulhu