FE6 Balance Patch

[Dunal]

Chapter 6 needs a lot of change. Enemies... so... weak. Chapter 2/3 puts up a better fight.

Edited February 9, 2011 by DLuna

[Anouleth]

Chapter 6 needs a lot of change. Enemies... so... weak. Chapter 2/3 puts up a better fight.

Um, not really. Chapter 6 isn't easy especially if you want to get all the treasure in a reasonable time limit. The Thunder Mages especially are annoying because they have relatively high crit and target Resistance.

[Narga_Rocks]

Um, not really. Chapter 6 isn't easy especially if you want to get all the treasure in a reasonable time limit. The Thunder Mages especially are annoying because they have relatively high crit and target Resistance.

Marcus marcus marcus. Problem solved. Chapter 6 is a complete let-down after chapter 5. You go from the toughest chapter yet to the easiest chapter yet. Yes, it is easier than chapter 1. I got every single treasure in, what, 3 turns more than the total number of chests?

Edited February 9, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Dunal]

Marcus marcus marcus. Problem solved. Chapter 6 is a complete let-down after chapter 5. You go from the toughest chapter yet to the easiest chapter yet. Yes, it is easier than chapter 1. I got every single treasure in, what, 3 turns more than the total number of chests?

This.

Put it this way, the soldiers within chapter 6 are actually weaker than the soldiers in chapter 2. And their speed is awful (I've increased the growth, though). Generally, the enemies are really pants, espeically after fighting those mercs in chapter 5. The reinforcements are annoying though, but that's about it.

Speaking of which, I nerfed chapter 5 a bit. It should at least follow progression, and so should chapter 6.

[Mekkah]

I'd say Ch4 is harder than Ch5, Narga. Ch5 is a bunch of axe enemies surrounded by forests while you have an army of sword users. There's a few enemies that are a little harder like Mercenaries and Nomads, but Ch4 has so many Cavaliers.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'd say Ch4 is harder than Ch5, Narga. Ch5 is a bunch of axe enemies surrounded by forests while you have an army of sword users. There's a few enemies that are a little harder like Mercenaries and Nomads, but Ch4 has so many Cavaliers.

My Marcus had a point of spd, so I guess that's the difference. Seriously, Iron Axe Marcus dominated all the lance wielders in chapter 4 while some of the others dealt with the sword wielders. It was disturbingly easy. Marcus is busy getting airdropped onto a fort in chapter 5, so I have to deal with all those nasty mercs and fighters that 2HKO everyone without Marcus.

I just have a massive hatred of chapter 5 is all. Chapter 4 always seemed easier to me. Even the first time I played HM when I didn't have 12 spd Marcus.

[Ken Zomg]

This is a good idea. If only we had balance hacks for FEs 10 and 11...

I've actually started working on a balance hack for FE7 (even though it doesn't need it), but I don't know anything about actual strategy and stuff, so it's more of a "what people complained about getting fixed" hack.

[Dunal]

Process update!

I'm now in the middle of testing 11A (I'm gonna have to test the game twice for obvious reasons). All enemies have been buffed since chapter 6 and enemy variety has also changed (there are far less axe users now). There are also some extra items; a couple of red gems to steal here and there and an Orion's bolt if you take the A route (have to steal it from an enemy sniper though.) On 11B I'll have an enemy sage/druid have a guiding ring to steal. In addition I'll throw in an extra knight's crest / Hero crest & Elysian Whip along the way (just to allow players to have more freedom in using different units together).

Are far as units goes, it's a lot different, of course. The armor knights are all decent and it's interesting how Barth fares with the knight's crest from the get-go (20 defense at 10/1). Granted, I haven't done that, but it's interesting nonetheless. Also;

15/2 Wolt.

And...

I got him to level 7~ ish and saw that he had 9 STR. Had to keep using him. Needless to say he's one of my only units who can reliably dodge (and enemies have much more hit than they used to).

And yes, thieves have a speed cap of 30 now.

[Jaybee]

Doesn't a 18 Str, 23 Speed Thief kind of, uh, break the game?

[Dunal]

Doesn't a 18 Str, 23 Speed Thief kind of, uh, break the game?

Not really. He's still facing 50-60% hit rates and I'm only up to chapter 11A. Enemies have more hit, so he can still die quite easily. There are more lance users, too.

But other than that, Chad just got majorly blessed. It's not intended or it's his average stats or anything.

Behold Merlinus, trained by Marcus himself...!

Edited February 11, 2011 by DLuna

[Geriba]

This is a good idea. If only we had balance hacks for FEs 10 and 11...

I've actually started working on a balance hack for FE7 (even though it doesn't need it), but I don't know anything about actual strategy and stuff, so it's more of a "what people complained about getting fixed" hack.

I'd be down for helping out with the FE7 balance patch. Of course, I think there should be an all-around difficulty increase to accompany the balance.

[Shin]

This seems pretty interesting, I've never touched characters like Wolt, Wendy or Tate so it'll be interesting to see how they play. It's also nice to see a family of balance patches appearing.

[Geriba]

For archers to be worth anything compared to units like, say, Dieck and Rutgar, wouldn't their stats need to be two to three times better than everyone else, to compensate for the Player Phase-only offense?

[Dunal]

For archers to be worth anything compared to units like, say, Dieck and Rutgar, wouldn't their stats need to be two to three times better than everyone else, to compensate for the Player Phase-only offense?

Not necessarily; just look at Shinon in FE10. But yes, they do need high stats (like Shinon). The reason why Wolt and Dorothy are so bad usually is because their base stats are very mediocre, which isn't good enough for an archer ofc.

Wolt is one of your only characters who will be able to consistently double and Dorothy has overkill STR and SKL. Bows are also buffed themselves (+1/2 MT, +5 hit and -1/2 weight). Offense-wise they are now two of the best characters in the game. Dorothy in particular has crazy offense once she starts doubling.

BTW, I have given all enemy Mamkutes 1-2 range. Should I do the same for Fa? Or would it be overpowered?

[Ken Zomg]

Of course, I think there should be an all-around difficulty increase to accompany the balance.

Definitely.

Also, don't mess around with growths too much. For me, I think that growths are kinda based off a character's personality. :)

[Dunal]

Pretty much all enemies are now premoted past chapter 16. Have +2 is nearly all stats (+5/6 skill and +5-7 HP).

Enemy Mamkutes now have 1-2 range, have far more HP and will likely have 22-24 AS towards the end of the game.

Edited February 13, 2011 by DLuna

[General Spoon]

You could buff archers by adding more Wyvern Riders to early game.

Edited February 14, 2011 by General Spoon

[Viceroy]

For the most part I feel you are moving in the right direction, and I congratulate and thank you for taking the time and effort to make this patch. However, I must express my discontent in a few areas...

For one thing, the changes you make for some units are too little to be of consequence - for instance, the "random 5% buffs/nerfs", mentioned earlier by someone else. To be frank, anything less than a change of 15% is too insubstantial to be noticed, especially for units that start at levels higher than 1. Assuming 38 level-ups across a 20/20 plane, a 5% nerf/buff is the mere difference of 1.9, or, ~2.0 in each given stat. Obviously this makes little difference at all, especially upon consideration that this is only reflected after all 38 levels have been achieved. The lack of consequence is especially reflected in your decision to nerf undisputed s-ranking goddess Clarine's Speed, Magic and Luck stats by 5% each - again, a step in the right direction, however, to be realistic it changes little. Practically speaking she will still be able to ORKO anything she wants to, as she is only losing out on a mere ~2.0 each in her Speed and Magic stat, this again only being seen AFTER 38 levels. You should try to make any changes more drastic than this.

My only other major gripe is your neglect for improving late-joiners such as Cecilia and Klein, or, conversely, worsening early-joiners. The longer it takes for a unit to join, the more likely it is they are being outclassed by units that are already in your force. Concentrate more on balancing from this perspective.

[Narga_Rocks]

Also, really three separate patches need to be made, arguably. Ranking, Efficiency/go as fast as is safe, casual play.

Basically, in ranking the levels will be a lot higher than in efficiency, so late joiners look a lot worse (the early joiners can be high leveled and, eg, Dorothy's stats at equal levels to Klein are much better in the original). In efficiency, Dorothy doesn't stand a chance of being anywhere near promotion when Klein appears, so he's way way better normally. If you improve Dorothy and make Klein worse, for the sake of efficiency, the contrast will be even worse on ranks. And similarly for the reverse if you do the opposite.

Basically, if you are only making 1, you basically have to choose what you are trying to balance for as it is impossible to balance for all play styles at once.

[Arch]

[6:14:10 PM] Arch: Quick curiosity: who is "DLuna" and is he/she of any notoriety? He/she is doing an FE6 Balance Patch' date=' and I'm curious as to why the hack is in the FE6 forum like it's something special/official and not the ROM Hacking forum on SF.[/quote']

Edited February 15, 2011 by Optimus OVERTROLL

[Viceroy]

...Three separate patches need to be made: S-rank, efficient, casual.

I don't think it's possible to balance around "casual" play since everyone's "casual" style is subjective, dynamic, and inefficient. There's not really a rule that can be made to balance "casual" playing that can't be denounced as arbitrary or inconclusive.

Otherwise, I agree, although I think that asking for all that at once might be a bit too much for just one guy, authoring such a young patch. I think that fixing it simply for S-ranking, and giving multiple difficulty levels (implemented using different patches if necessary) would be highly satisfactory for now. Catering to different FE players of different skill levels will overall make the game more accessible than re-balancing for two entirely different styles of play, one of which is very noticeably less popular than the other.

[Mekkah]

You could make a casual one by just doing no-brainers, such as improving weapon hit, buffing people who are completely inferior versions of others (Sophia, Lilina, Wendy, Cass), and perhaps nerfing some great units (Rutger, Alan, Lance). But the efficiency vs ranked split is very important to make, yeah.

[Dunal]

For one thing, the changes you make for some units are too little to be of consequence - for instance, the "random 5% buffs/nerfs", mentioned earlier by someone else. To be frank, anything less than a change of 15% is too insubstantial to be noticed, especially for units that start at levels higher than 1. Assuming 38 level-ups across a 20/20 plane, a 5% nerf/buff is the mere difference of 1.9, or, ~2.0 in each given stat. Obviously this makes little difference at all, especially upon consideration that this is only reflected after all 38 levels have been achieved. The lack of consequence is especially reflected in your decision to nerf undisputed s-ranking goddess Clarine's Speed, Magic and Luck stats by 5% each - again, a step in the right direction, however, to be realistic it changes little. Practically speaking she will still be able to ORKO anything she wants to, as she is only losing out on a mere ~2.0 each in her Speed and Magic stat, this again only being seen AFTER 38 levels. You should try to make any changes more drastic than this.

I understand what you mean. I have and will change this. As for your Clarine statement, I certainly don't think that's true anymore.

My only other major gripe is your neglect for improving late-joiners such as Cecilia and Klein, or, conversely, worsening early-joiners. The longer it takes for a unit to join, the more likely it is they are being outclassed by units that are already in your force. Concentrate more on balancing from this perspective.

Don't worry, I've tried to address that through testing. Since the early game is now easier and the latter game is much harder; it matters more. And of course, I have made some more changes to certain units.

Also, really three separate patches need to be made, arguably. Ranking, Efficiency/go as fast as is safe, casual play.

Basically, in ranking the levels will be a lot higher than in efficiency, so late joiners look a lot worse (the early joiners can be high leveled and, eg, Dorothy's stats at equal levels to Klein are much better in the original). In efficiency, Dorothy doesn't stand a chance of being anywhere near promotion when Klein appears, so he's way way better normally. If you improve Dorothy and make Klein worse, for the sake of efficiency, the contrast will be even worse on ranks. And similarly for the reverse if you do the opposite.

Basically, if you are only making 1, you basically have to choose what you are trying to balance for as it is impossible to balance for all play styles at once.

I don't quite think this is needed as long as both characters are useful. I mean, in anyone's individual playthrough, some of their units are bound to get either get blessed or screwed. Prepremotes are the safety net (most of them arguably weren't in the original game, though). Granted, Dorothy will probally contribute more overall thoughout the game, but she requires a lot of EXP (which can easily go to anyone else) to carry on being useful when you get Klein (while he requires absolutely nothing to be decent).

Edited February 15, 2011 by DLuna

[Dunal]

I'm' still working on this!

I've removed the patch for now because it's still in development. It's best that people can play it when it's near completion.

Here are the current patch notes though. Hopefully they are far improved compared to before; PATCH NOTES!

There is also documentation on each unit's base stats and growths. Probally a better format to refer to while playing in the future.

Main reason why it's taking this long is because of the huge amount of testing required. Gonna have to play through the game at least a few times. Certain chapters haven't had their difficulty adjusted either yet.

Edited March 10, 2011 by DLuna