FE7x: Immortal Sword - Part One Complete

[Dunal]

Whoops, that's on me. He made the topic but I maintain it since I release new versions

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with that crashing, DLuna. Any consistency to when it happens?

I'll let you know if it happens again -- and where/when it happens. All I remember was that it would be before combat starts, but not specifically.

However if I "Load Suspend" the combat (that crashed) would continue as normal without crashing. It looks to me that it's probably on my end, but I'll take note of it if it happens again.

EDIT: By the way, Edeleisse dropped the Light Brand for me when she was killed holding the steel sword. Is this intended? I wouldn't assume so considering the boss drop next chapter. I would think the steel sword should be the only possible drop, no?

Edited November 29, 2013 by DLuna

[Randombobman]

Hey Yeti you should check your messages...

[Miacis]

You know that, and now I know that, but I don't think Magnus knows that '3'

Well, that's what I thought at first, but considering he's got basically perfect elocution everywhere else, it just seems kinda out of place to me.

[Paperblade]

I feel like the Combat rating is overly harsh, whether or not I get an S rank feels pretty much totally reliant on things outside of my control (crits/misses/level ups). On the flip side, Tactics (and maybe EXP) are overly lenient.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Paperblade

[Dunal]

Speaking of Magnus, how does everyone think of him as a unit?

My impressions (based off the trial maps as well) is that it's still hard to justify 4 move on him.

Stats aside, 'Focus' I feel -- isn't particularly useful on mage units. It makes them sometimes more durable than 5 move magi, but at what point would you genuinely use them to tank hits (and keep them stationary while doing so?). +2 magic is also very negligible on a burst mage who doesn't double either (so making them barely move to proc it is rarely worthwhile).

It would make sense if Shaman/Sorc/Diviner gained a new skill or a tweaked version of Focus.

---

'Combat Caster' = When fighting at melee range, this unit gains +2 Mag/Skl/Def.

---

Seems more appropriate to me. Focus, with how it currently works, doesn't make sense on a 4 MOV unit since not only are they immobile (and thus, cannot get in the fray all that efficiently) they won't really get an opportunity to actually proc focus effectively (chances are they need a bunch of turns to move a good amount to begin with, let alone holding still afterwards). 'Combat Caster' works a lot better IMO since they can move the full distance and still do their job effectively.

His stats are also rather average -- but his growths seem pretty good. Can't comment too much about that yet. His Skl bugs me a bit, but if you were to add a bonus to 'Focus'/'Combat Caster' it would benefit him quite nicely.

Focus works fine on Mercs/Fighters for the most part. 5 move is enough to get them into a good position and hold the line.

Airy seems good. Her bases are really great. Her growths are apparently mediocre but that shouldn't matter too much with the amount of levels she can have. However, like Magnus, 'Focus' likely doesn't offer much.

Anyone agree/disagree? These are just my thoughts.

I feel like the Combat rating is overly harsh, whether or not I get an S rank feels pretty much totally reliant on things outside of my control (crits/misses/level ups). On the flip side, Tactics (and maybe EXP) are overly lenient.

I absolutely agree with this. Combat rating is indeed too harsh, while Turncount aren't strict enough. EXP should have a lower contribution IMO. While it it seems to be 100/100/100 baseline at the moment, it should be more like 110/110/90 (the latter being EXP).

This doesn't mean it should be easier/harder to S rank and whatnot, it just might need a tweak.

It's quite apparent when prologue is very hard to S rank while CH6 is relatively easy. Mostly because of the way the combat rating works.

EDIT: Also, would it be a good idea if S ranks can only be received in hard mode? Or, instead of S rank in hard, it becomes SS rank instead (like FE6). This just separates the importance or difficulty of ranks on each mode. Although they're probably going to be separated in the end regardless.

Edited November 29, 2013 by DLuna

[Paperblade]

I'm not sure about "base" value, I've gotten >110 on both Tactics and EXP (and as high as like 125). But my highest Combat has been like 90 and it's gone as low as like, 35. I'm not even sure getting an EXP rank that low is possible without just going Eagler solo.

[Dunal]

I'm not sure about "base" value, I've gotten >110 on both Tactics and EXP (and as high as like 125). But my highest Combat has been like 90 and it's gone as low as like, 35. I'm not even sure getting an EXP rank that low is possible without just going Eagler solo.

No, what I mean is that each rank is equally contributing on the overall rank. I assume the default values for each ranking is 100. And your performance affects those values. In any case, each sub-rank contributes 33% of the overall, while it should be more like 37/37/26% (Combat/Time/EXP) IMO.

Then combat could be tweaked to be less harsh and turncount to be more harsh.

Not sure if I'm explaining well enough still, but hopefully you know where I'm coming from.

Basically, EXP is too lenient, but also could be less important, if that makes sense.

Combat should be less harsh. It's the most prominent ranking at the moment, which doesn't really work for some maps (prologue).

Turncount or time should be more harsh or important (1 turn could be 10-20+ points for instance, depending on map).

Not sure if others agree though. But there could be some improvements from what I can see.

Edited November 29, 2013 by DLuna

[BBHood217]

Full version with all the chapters done when? Even just an estimation.

le gasp!

el gasp!

ze gasp!

il gasp!

ang gasp!

the gasp!

See how (not) funny you sound?

[Miacis]

I'll be following up on what's been said about the ranks. My Turncount was around ~100 at best, but Combat was always low, going all he way down to ~50, while Exp went up to ~130.

On my end, I'd say Combat does need to be more lenient, Turncount stay about the same and Exp more harsh.

Is there a way to check the scores you get on previous missions, by the way?

See how (not) funny you sound?

I appreciate the kind words, but as a French person I am very proud to wear our silly internet stereotypes on myself. Because self-derision is a fun thing.

So I'll stick to my le, if you don't mind.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Miacis

[Dunal]

Thinking about it, I don't think the EXP rank should be more harsh on the overall rank, that would punish people who are capable of low-turning certain maps.

If anything, a good solution would be to base the EXP rank off the total turns that are played. As in, if you 5-turn a map, then the par amount of EXP = X*5 (X being the average/expected amount of EXP each turn). Then, the EXP rating would be based off how higher/lower you deviate from that value (average per turn). Therefore if you were to rush a map with mostly eagler, your EXP ranking would be low. But if done with only trainees, you would get a high rank, despite only beating it in a few turns, because the average per turn is high.

However, I'm really not sure how it currently works at all. For I know it could already be doing something like this. If it does, then sure, make it more harsh.

Combat is an odd one. I do feel that less emphasis should be put on it, and more on tactics/time. Turncount isn't the end all, be all -- but it's a better display of skill than the former. Combat is weird because it's far too encouraged by things like weapon effectiveness (Claymore > mounted) so some chapters are skewed more by it than others. CH6 is very easy to S rank for this reason (There are so many cavs that Uther can one-shot).

Edited November 30, 2013 by DLuna

[Robert Stewart]

Question: Where does this game store its save data? I'd like to be able to move between versions without having to replay maps.

Edited November 30, 2013 by shinpichu

[Miacis]

Question: Where does this game store its save data? I'd like to be able to move between versions without having to replay maps.

Your Documents > SavedGames > FE7x

I don't think previous saves would work, though. The stats have been altered quite a bit.

[eCut]

Isadora all thee way. <3

That was fun! I liked the difficulty level and the ranking system.

I noticed that the zoom-in-to-battle effect is pretty buggy (it seemed to zoom in at random spots rather than to the ally/enemy battling) and I still think the Squire animation is unnaturally fast, making it jarring.

Can't wait to be able to play the missing chapters. ^_^

Also, how will saving work in the actual game? The chapter selection is cool and all but it would be nice to have an actual save system like in normal fe games.

Edited November 30, 2013 by ePamplemouss

[BwdYeti]

Other than a file select screen and real main menu, this is the actual save system. It's intended to ease replaying, especially with the new ranking system.

The battle zoom in has been working for me, I'm not sure what could be going wrong

@shinpichu: Saves are still in the same place, but old ones won't work with this version. Going forward you will be able to keep your save from this version though, as long as I don't make any mistakes

[Pixelman]

Isadora all thee way. <3

That was fun! I liked the difficulty level and the ranking system.

I noticed that the zoom-in-to-battle effect is pretty buggy (it seemed to zoom in at random spots rather than to the ally/enemy battling) and I still think the Squire animation is unnaturally fast, making it jarring.

Can't wait to be able to play the missing chapters. ^_^

Also, how will saving work in the actual game? The chapter selection is cool and all but it would be nice to have an actual save system like in normal fe games.

Glad to see I'm not the only one using Isadora XD

[Agro]

pedantic nitpicky thing: the battle music seems to start a fraction of a second later than vanilla FE7

Also, how do I go from chapter select back to main menu? Far too many times I've had spammed A in the menu and accidentally hit "Start Game" intending to go to Load Suspend :/

I have animation to set play phase only, but the enemy boss archer in Chapter 5 seems to have animations enabled?

Harken didn't change class at level 10, so shattered

Oh wait, they change at "11", don't they?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Agro

[Robert Stewart]

Glad to see I'm not the only one using Isadora XD

I used her, too. Is it general consensus that she's not worth using? Because she's turned out better than Marcus and Harken for me.

[Pixelman]

I used her, too. Is it general consensus that she's not worth using? Because she's turned out better than Marcus and Harken for me.

Idk, really. Mageknight didn't really use her because of, "instructions".

She was my dodge/ speed tank for me.

[Klokinator]

Isadora is adorable. I rest my case.

[thetiger39]

Isadora turned out alright before the buff patch and i overused her because of her animation. .Speaking of Isadora and dodge tanks, do we get an adorable female who has over the top STR and DEF and HP and garbage speed and res?

Edited November 30, 2013 by thetiger39

[Pixelman]

Isadora is adorable. I rest my case.

More reasons to use her. : ]

Edited November 30, 2013 by PixelmanFE

[Paperblade]

whichever trainee is good seems totally dependent on their level ups (shocking)

I think Marcus>Isadora>Harken based on my experiences but it would depend on exact growths. Harken hits about as hard as Marcus but is generally slower (and gets doubled by faster enemies which suuuuuuucks) and less tanky, plus Marcus has better WTA since there's lots of sword/lance dudes early and not that many fighters. Isadora is the least durable but has the best offense if she doubles.

Toni and Cybil just seems like an inferior Hassar/Marcus (blah blah cybil flies)

edit:

Making EXP rank into experience/turn would pretty much make the EXP rank pointless outside of discouraging loleagler solos imo

Tactics encourages you to go fast

EXP encourages you to kill as much as you can (which means you want to go a bit slow)

Combat encourages you to actually be legit about the previous 2 and not turn bosses into EXP pinatas or w/e

also I got like a 140 score on Combat in Ch. 6, gg game2easy

But seriously that makes me think that Combat's scoring is sort of... maybe not overly harsh like I said earlier, but unlike Tactics/EXP it gets moved too much by too little of a change

Edited December 1, 2013 by Paperblade

[Klokinator]

I find it weird that a unit can die and I still retain an S rank in some cases, but usually an A rank. Then again rankings mean nothing to me but I digress.

[BwdYeti]

Survival will be judged for the whole campaign after the finale

Also, how do I go from chapter select back to main menu? Far too many times I've had spammed A in the menu and accidentally hit "Start Game" intending to go to Load Suspend :/

A B Start Select (Z X shift enter)

It'll be pressing B on the world map or something eventually

I have animation to set play phase only, but the enemy boss archer in Chapter 5 seems to have animations enabled?

Bosses force animations on regardless of mode

[Dunal]

also I got like a 140 score on Combat in Ch. 6, gg game2easy

Same. Like I said, it's because of the amount of cavs (claymore / Zwei) -- and enemies are generally quite squishy (but high in number). This is a direct contrast to prologue (no effective / tankier enemies).

Combat rank needs to be heavily adjusted for each individual map it seems. It's far too based on map design ATM. Too leniant on some maps and too harsh on others, and mechanically it's easy to understand why.

I get what you're saying for EXP/Turn, but really -- lower EXP (in return for rush clears) is technically a long term penalty for later chapters (which will lead to suckier tactics/combat ranks later on). If some players want to fast clear certain chapters, they shouldn't be punished for it -- because they're already sacrificing future oppotunites to do so.

Therefore, basing EXP rank on the amount of turns (to a degree) seems quite natural to me. To what degree can be debated though. Again, just my thoughts.

And yes, Isadora is pretty good now after the weapon Mgt change. Her low STR / high SPD just favors it more.

I think all units are reasonably good/balanced. Except the whole 4 MOV magi thing. They need a more practical skill, as I've mentioned (Focus is contradictory to low movement). Stat-wise though, Magnus/Airy are fine otherwise.

Toni and Cybil just seems like an inferior Hassar/Marcus (blah blah cybil flies)

For fun (don't judge me), Let's actually compare them at the end of CH6 (disclaimer, I can't remember promo gains completely -- so it might be a bit off). All stats are rounded to the nearest value.

Hassar

LVL: -/6

HP: 32

STR: 8

SKL: 9

SPD: 11

LUK: 6

DEF: 6

RES: 3

Toni

LVL: 10/1

HP: 29

STR: 8

SKL: 13

SPD: 13

LUK: 5

DEF: 6

RES: 4

They're pretty much on par with everything. Few points of health for Hassar, 4 SKL and 2 SPD for Toni. That 2 speed is actually quite significant at this point based on enemy speed (Toni can double a lot Hassar can't). However, Hassar has Swift and +1 Move. And of course, Hassar is already good/great from the start, and mostly out-performs her in CH5 & CH6. Toni's class and additional SKL can translate to an extra +13 crit though. That's quite a lot. With Short Bow it's +18 crit, but both can use it so w/e.

That said, Hassar's growths are flat out better (not sure entirely why -- I guess Longbowman just ends up being that good a class). Their STR/SPD (main importance for archers) will always be similar however. Hassar doesn't equal her speed at T1 ever, she'll always remain a point ahead. STR will pretty much remain similar, with Hassar being a point ahead by the time T1 comes to a close.

Now for Marcus/Cybil.

Marcus

LVL: 10/5

HP: 36

STR: 9

SKL: 11

SPD: 10

LUK: 7

DEF: 10

RES: 4

Cybil

LVL: 10/1

HP: 31

STR: 8

SKL: 10

SPD: 12

LUK: 6

DEF: 6

RES: 12

Stats are fairly even. 4 DEF VS. 8 RES. 1 STR/5 HP VS. 2 SPD. Aside from that, not much different. Except Marcus will promote earlier and generally be a lot more useful in CH5 & 6. Cybil gains a substantial power spike from promoting (flight!). Realistically that won't happen until the latter half of CH6.

In the long run though, Marcus will be better at being in the front line, holding off physical units (as a cav/pally would do). Cybil has better offensive stats + flight.

Heck, Marcus is great, and is one of the best units from the demo so far. I think what carries him though is his promo speed gain (+2, which guarantees 8 SPD). But in terms of growth, he will start to fall behind a ways into T1 I expect.

Basically, no unit is strictly better (except Eagler) even in this early demo stage. They've done a very good job balancing it seems, at least so far.

As for Harken, yeah he's the worst trainee, but his promo gains are sooo good (taking into account Focus, he gains +5 STR...). His power spike is quite substantial.

Edited December 1, 2013 by DLuna