Priscilla vs. Lucius

[Psych]

dondon has already proved we will never recruit Lucius. Debate over.

Place holder for start.

[Junkhead]

I guess I'm going to start this after all. Damn you, Psych.

It's pretty damn obvious that Priscilla is better than Lucius, or otherwise she wouldn't have ended up as a Top tier material unit. But when taking that into account, I remembered hearing, "Debating isn't about who has the better character, it's about who defends his character best". And I will try to come up with something that will turn around the situation.

Me and Psych came to an agreement that Lucius would be coming out at lvl 7 from LHM. I also decided to include the possibility of letting him use both, the Energy Drop and the Angelic Robe. It's not to say there aren't better people that could use it (And even then, it's just Florina), but since this is a Priscilla vs. Lucius debate, I should try to balance things out for him and do the best I can.

Anyway, coming out of LHM with those adorementioned resources poured into him, this is how Lucius should look like:

Unit      Level HP Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res   Support
Lucius     7.00 27 11   8  12   3   1   8   

I rounded up his stats.

So, the reason I'm assuming those two statboosters is to exploit his main selling point before promotion: His offense. Lucius has one of the best offense in the team. He's only losing to Marcus, KillingEdge!Guy & Raven. Lucius is all you want in a Mage: He's quick and launches moderately powerful attacks, moderately powerful attacks that can 1RKO alot of the strongest enemies like Cavaliers (The average ones) and Knights. He's also 1RKO'ing Archers and is borderline on Fighters, Pirates and Pegs- Which by the way, he leaves them quite wounded. I won't hand-wave his major problem, of course. Lucius' durability is made out of paper. It's close to inexistent, and won't be getting better anytime soon with that horredous 10% Def growth and 1 Def base, his HP is merely passable, allowing him to survive 3HKO's from some of the weaker enemies that are rather common. Although this is solved pretty easily when you remember Lucius is a Mage, and won't be a frontliner, ever. He's likely to sneak up on his, and even get kills of his own right off the bat. His offense keeps up decently as he levels-up. Unfortunately, his durability blows forever unless it's fixed with a Dracoshield and a Raven support. The latter is easily obtainable, but doesn't solve half of the problem.

Another thing is that he gains an amazing C rank in staves upon promotion. I would delay his promotion to around Ch 26 (After those Exp mines Ch 23, 23x & 25 are) so he could get out most of his potential, for both, combat and healing. A 16/1 Lucius makes a killing machine, while enemies are still unpromoted and suck by then. Lucius can now do what Priscilla can do, and even better. He heals much more HP. He has more staff range, meaning that unlike Prisicilla, he won't have to go all the way into Danger Zone to heal Raven for 20 HP when Lucius can heal for 30. Promoting Lucius by this time is ideal, considering this is when the good staves come along so he can start spamming them all the way up to B. Since his durability sucks, he could either keep sniping from the back lines, or start building that staff rank so he can become an actually decent Warper.

tl:dr: Lucius is very limited to his Enemy Phases, but he can actually redeem himself by being a great ranged attacker that later has the option of becoming one of the best healers.

[Psych]

I guess I'm going to start this after all. Damn you, Psych.

It's pretty damn obvious that Priscilla is better than Lucius, or otherwise she wouldn't have ended up as a Top tier material unit. But when taking that into account, I remembered hearing, "Debating isn't about who has the better character, it's about who defends his character best". And I will try to come up with something that will turn around the situation.

Yes, but while they both have the hots for Raven, Incest > Yaoi, and Lucius even costs us a turn to recruit him while Priscilla will be recruited automatically at the end of the chapter.

Me and Psych came to an agreement that Lucius would be coming out at lvl 7 from LHM. I also decided to include the possibility of letting him use both, the Energy Drop and the Angelic Robe. It's not to say there aren't better people that could use it (And even then, it's just Florina), but since this is a Priscilla vs. Lucius debate, I should try to balance things out for him and do the best I can.

Um, I vaguely remember saying maximumly he can come out a 7, because we will be using Matthew, Lyn, Florina, possibly one cav, Erk, Serra and maybe Rath. Why would we give Lucius, who's main job is not to be on the front lines, an Angelic Robe and Energy Ring, when we have two better candidates, one of which is forced for endgame, and we also have an S rank Light and Staff user, who practically makes Lucius redundant.

Anyway, coming out of LHM with those adorementioned resources poured into him, this is how Lucius should look like:

Unit      Level HP Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res   Support
Lucius     7.00 27 11   8  12   3   1   8   

I rounded up his stats.

Without the Angelic Robe, he's about equivelent to around a level 8 Priscilla, only she continues to gain defense through out her career, not to max out at 4 defense like he does. Plus we get another one around 22 when one of them should be promoting, and we also have a Dragon Shield we can give our healer in 15.

So, the reason I'm assuming those two statboosters is to exploit his main selling point before promotion: His offense. Lucius has one of the best offense in the team. He's only losing to Marcus, KillingEdge!Guy & Raven. Lucius is all you want in a Mage: He's quick and launches moderately powerful attacks, moderately powerful attacks that can 1RKO alot of the strongest enemies like Cavaliers (The average ones) and Knights. He's also 1RKO'ing Archers and is borderline on Fighters, Pirates and Pegs- Which by the way, he leaves them quite wounded. I won't hand-wave his major problem, of course. Lucius' durability is made out of paper. It's close to inexistent, and won't be getting better anytime soon with that horredous 10% Def growth and 1 Def base, his HP is merely passable, allowing him to survive 3HKO's from some of the weaker enemies that are rather common. Although this is solved pretty easily when you remember Lucius is a Mage, and won't be a frontliner, ever. He's likely to sneak up on his, and even get kills of his own right off the bat. His offense keeps up decently as he levels-up. Unfortunately, his durability blows forever unless it's fixed with a Dracoshield and a Raven support. The latter is easily obtainable, but doesn't solve half of the problem.

11 magic plus 4 might. Sure, it's targeting resistance, but still. A level 6 Erk beats him since we get Thunder. Plus Erk has better durability, and also give Priscilla another good support option. It's her second fastest next to Raven, and there's no reason she doesn't want it.

Another thing is that he gains an amazing C rank in staves upon promotion. I would delay his promotion to around Ch 26 (After those Exp mines Ch 23, 23x & 25 are) so he could get out most of his potential, for both, combat and healing. A 16/1 Lucius makes a killing machine, while enemies are still unpromoted and suck by then. Lucius can now do what Priscilla can do, and even better. He heals much more HP. He has more staff range, meaning that unlike Prisicilla, he won't have to go all the way into Danger Zone to heal Raven for 20 HP when Lucius can heal for 30. Promoting Lucius by this time is ideal, considering this is when the good staves come along so he can start spamming them all the way up to B. Since his durability sucks, he could either keep sniping from the back lines, or start building that staff rank so he can become an actually decent Warper.

Yes, but we're starting to see a bunch more promoted enemies. Not only that, but there's more magic too. Let's compare them, and which ring they're getting.

18: Either Erk or Serra, but it's unlikely for us to promote either of them right now. Serra is probably getting it, since that way she can defend herself, but it depends on how much we use her versus Priscilla. Canas might be possible if we want to give him an early promotion. Lucius and Priscilla are both unlikely for it though.

20: Whichever didn't get 18/Canas. Priscilla might have an edge over Lucius if we want to to promote soon.

23: Canas or the one that didn't get the 20 ring.

27:...well there's one here, but if you aren't promoted yet we're probably dropping you.

There's also a seal in 24 they might get, depending on who else we're using. Let's say Lucius takes the Earth Seal, and Priscilla promotes around 22 with the 20 Ring.

Unit       Level HP Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res   Support
Lucius     16/1 27 17   13  15   4   3   14    Raven B (+1 Attack, 2 Defense, 10 Accuracy, 5 Avoid, 5 Critical, 5 Critical Avoid)
Priscilla  14/3 24 13   13  13   15  7   15    Raven A/Erk B (+2 Attack, 2 Defense, 12 Avoid, 17 Accuracy, 10 Critical, 25 Critical Avoid)

Priscilla is looking better in the Durability department, and we're starting to get more stat boosters. How can he still do what she can do only better? She uses anima, and yes it's E rank and won't ever get past C, but it's still better. Second, by now, she has A rank staves. She can also use Physic, which we probably bought around Chapter 20. And the most important thing she has over him, +2 movement. Do not for one second tell me he's getting the boots, there are too many people above him on that list. He has 2 more range than she does on it, nulling the move difference, but she can also move out of dangerous spots too, and easily catch up to her support partners. Plus her luck and support bonuses give her about 52 avoid, while Lucius has only 39, and his defense isn't hot either, making what you said was his main drawing point, his offense, not too hot. Not to mention Light Tomes' lack of might and insane weight. He's weighed down by any heavier than Lightning. He heals 4 more HP. Big Whoop.

tl:dr: Lucius is very limited to his Enemy Phases, but he can actually redeem himself by being a great ranged attacker that later has the option of becoming one of the best healers.

One of the best. That's cool, when you have only 4 others for competition.

Priscilla/Serra/Athos

Lucius

Erk/Canas

lolNino

And yeah, great ranged attacker? Let's try someone who doesn't have might or defense issues.

[Junkhead]

Yes, but while they both have the hots for Raven, Incest > Yaoi, and Lucius even costs us a turn to recruit him while Priscilla will be recruited automatically at the end of the chapter.

Incest is only an overrated and disgusting abomination that makes deformed children.

Um, I vaguely remember saying maximumly he can come out a 7, because we will be using Matthew, Lyn, Florina, possibly one cav, Erk, Serra and maybe Rath. Why would we give Lucius, who's main job is not to be on the front lines, an Angelic Robe and Energy Ring, when we have two better candidates, one of which is forced for endgame, and we also have an S rank Light and Staff user, who practically makes Lucius redundant.

Yesterday, I went out of my way and decided to play LHM under a low turn-counts scenerio. Lucius came out at lvl 6.60, and that's only because I took two turns less than usual. Matthew isn't used as a combat unit, for he will forever blow. You can use both Cavaliers perfectly fine. Rath isn't a long-term unit and only really helps in Ch 7x (lol). Serra only heals and won't be able to get single level unless you slow down for her at a snail's pace. So that leaves us with Lyndis, Florina, Kent, Sain and Erk, who won't really hinder Lucius' progress while they all level together effeciently.

@Bold: Lyndis is one of the worst candidates to give it to, considering she lacks the durability to go at melee combat. Florina, I concede it, but she won't always come to play as combat unit when you later get Fiora, making her basically "redundant" while she can still do her ferrying job excellently at base level. And as I previously mentioned, Mages aren't frontliners. The only reason I decided to assume the Angelic Robe for Lucius is to allow him survive 3RKO's from ranged enemies (Archers, Javelin users). Only an idiot would go and throw a unit made out of paper in the front lines.

Without the Angelic Robe, he's about equivelent to around a level 8 Priscilla, only she continues to gain defense through out her career, not to max out at 4 defense like he does. Plus we get another one around 22 when one of them should be promoting, and we also have a Dragon Shield we can give our healer in 15.

No way in hell is Priscilla getting to lvl 10 that early, unless you magically decide we can slow than for her, who happens to gain 11 Exp heal, but not for Lucius, who can gain 20~ Exp per kill.

Also, Priscilla's facing actual competition: Serra. While Lucius apparently "competes" to Erk, he can double and 1RKO enemies that Erk doesn't. Priscilla and Serra are both healing. The exact same thing. You know what that means? No? It means Priscilla gets even less Exp per turn.

11 magic plus 4 might. Sure, it's targeting resistance, but still. A level 6 Erk beats him since we get Thunder. Plus Erk has better durability, and also give Priscilla another good support option. It's her second fastest next to Raven, and there's no reason she doesn't want it.

Erk having "better durability" isn't much to say when you consider anything with 14 Atk 2HKO's him. And 9 AS (He gets weighted down by one, because of Thunder) only doubles and 1RKO's Knights, lolArchers and the weakest Cavaliers weighted down by Javelins. Lucius still beats him in offense and durability until they reach high levels prior to promotion.

Yes, but we're starting to see a bunch more promoted enemies. Not only that, but there's more magic too. Let's compare them, and which ring they're getting.

Alright, go ahead and name me the "bunch more" promoted enemies we'll apparently see this early in the game.

18: Either Erk or Serra, but it's unlikely for us to promote either of them right now. Serra is probably getting it, since that way she can defend herself, but it depends on how much we use her versus Priscilla. Canas might be possible if we want to give him an early promotion. Lucius and Priscilla are both unlikely for it though.

I think you're grossly inflating their levels. None of the above are likely to even reach lvl 10 that early. Much less Canas, considering 17x is a Florina 4-turn. Giving Serra the Ring so early is the silliest thing to do. "Defending herserlf" isn't important when her main role is simply healing and her combat will blow forever. It'd just be a waste.

And you are likely to get the Ring when the chapter ends, anyway.

20: Whichever didn't get 18/Canas. Priscilla might have an edge over Lucius if we want to to promote soon.

Canas isn't entitled to every Ring, you know. He had the same level as Lucius did at the start of Ch 18, and with his mediocre combat, you won't see him gain Exp more often than Lucius does. And Ch 18 is filled with Shamans. Lucius outright laughs at those.

@Bold: The only reason you might want to promote Priscilla is if you're desperate for more unnecesary Mov she already bears. And like Serra, she's only getting shitty "combat". "Priscilla might have an edge over Lucius" my ass.

23: Canas or the one that didn't get the 20 ring.

27:...well there's one here, but if you aren't promoted yet we're probably dropping you.

There's also a seal in 24 they might get, depending on who else we're using. Let's say Lucius takes the Earth Seal, and Priscilla promotes around 22 with the 20 Ring.

I think it might be a little late to say this, but...

We are not using every Mage in the game. It's enough of a pathetic attempt to try to take down Lucius with "SERRA CAN GET THE RING TO DEFEND HERSERLF" and "PRISCILLA WILL HAVE A LEVEL ADVANTAGE OVER LUCIUS SO EARLY IN THE GAME". And please, stick with the actual character you're debating. This is not Lucius vs. Every Mage in the game. And yet, it seems I'd actually be winning that debate.

Unit       Level HP Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res   Support
Lucius     16/1  34  19  13  15   5   3  14    Raven B (+1 Attack, 2 Defense, 10 Accuracy, 5 Avoid, 5 Critical, 5 Critical Avoid)
Priscilla  14/3 24 13   13  13   15  7   15    Raven A/Erk B (+2 Attack, 2 Defense, 12 Avoid, 17 Accuracy, 10 Critical, 25 Critical Avoid)

Priscilla is looking better in the Durability department, and we're starting to get more stat boosters. How can he still do what she can do only better? She uses anima, and yes it's E rank and won't ever get past C, but it's still better. Second, by now, she has A rank staves. She can also use Physic, which we probably bought around Chapter 20. And the most important thing she has over him, +2 movement. Do not for one second tell me he's getting the boots, there are too many people above him on that list. He has 2 more range than she does on it, nulling the move difference, but she can also move out of dangerous spots too, and easily catch up to her support partners. Plus her luck and support bonuses give her about 52 avoid, while Lucius has only 39, and his defense isn't hot either, making what you said was his main drawing point, his offense, not too hot. Not to mention Light Tomes' lack of might and insane weight. He's weighed down by any heavier than Lightning. He heals 4 more HP. Big Whoop.

All the above. The giant level inflation, the accelerated supports.

It takes 52-53 turns to get Priscilla to an A with Raven, meaning you have to anchor her from healing other people when that's the whole point of her usefulness. Lucius can easily stick close to Raven. They can tag-team for excellent team offense and even support faster. I conceded her getting an A Erk, though.

I'd also like to mention how Lucius can be blessed by Ninis' Grace for actual Def and slaughter enemies at the desert and just about anywhere else, even if for a turn.

@Underline: "There are too many candidates for Boots above Lucius"- Yes, and? This is still Priscilla vs. Lucius. I wasn't going even considering it. I might as well just give him the Dracoshield before doing that, which, I won't.

"He has 2 more range than she does on it, nulling the move difference, but she can also move out of dangerous spots too, and easily catch up to her support partners"- Too bad she can't do it in Enemy Phase while the Sandman comes for her.

"Lucius' durability still blows and Priscilla has more Avo" - I still don't see how that interferes with Lucius being a ranged attacker and being able to kill the enemy from range, you know, where he's actually safe. And if his 1RKO'ing offense isn't "too hot", I don't know where Priscilla would be at this point.

"Not to mention Light Tomes' lack of might and insane weight. He's weighed down by any heavier than Lightning. He heals 4 more HP. Big Whoop" - Have you ever heard the saying, "Size doesn't matter, it's how you use it"? Well, this is pretty similiar. It's not about the weapon he's using, it's how he uses it. Lucius' great Mag stat and growth pretty much outweigh that, making him even better than Erk and Canas at offense.

One of the best. That's cool, when you have only 4 others for competition.

Priscilla/Serra/Athos

Lucius

Erk/Canas

lolNino

- Priscilla and Serra only have the advantage of using Physic earlier. Lol, Athos. The guy who comes at the end of the game.

- Lucius isn't competing against himself.

- Erk and Canas lack the magical, auto C-rank in staves and will never have more Mag than Lucius.

- LolNino.

And yeah, great ranged attacker? Let's try someone who doesn't have might or defense issues.

I love it how you're missing the entire point on why he's range attacking in the first place.

At last, I reiterate: In a debate, you don't sidetrack to all the existing, and not to mention unprobable options in the game. Next time, remind me to include Seth in any FE8 debate.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Soul

[Junkhead]

Does Psych forfeit? 8]

[Psych]

No, I just haven't had time to post a response. Hold your horses.

[Junkhead]

ok 8]

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Yes, but while they both have the hots for Raven, Incest > Yaoi, and Lucius even costs us a turn to recruit him while Priscilla will be recruited automatically at the end of the chapter.

I stopped reading here

[Junkhead]

Um...judges?

[General Horace]

dondon has already proved we will never recruit Lucius. Debate over.

Place holder for start.

It's actually possible, it's not hard either.

And Psych never really finished, so I don't know why it's tough deciding the winner.

[Just call me AL]

May be a minor nitpick, but I can't help but notice Psych miscalculated in the supports department. (That 17 Acc should be 20 Acc, and that 10 Crit should be 17 Crit.)

Edited August 26, 2011 by Elmer

[Mister Sunshine Sprinkles]

Preaching to the Choir, but Prissy. Prissy's magic could never go up, yet being a healer on a horse, that won't be hurt by shit would still give her utility. Lucius is a magic canon, but he's frail, and has to rely on supports to DOOOOODGE.

Ahahahaha, I just posted on a thread that was dead two years ago someone kill me

Edited December 8, 2013 by Mister Sunshine Sprinkles

[Junkhead]

Fun times, though.

[kdports]

I think its fair to say the leaving song II wins.

[PKSlowpoke]

Definitely Priscilla. Priscilla is basically Lucius on a horse with Anima magic, more luck, and a bit more defense.

[Glitchy]

I prefer Priscilla because she's a mounted staffbot, and Lucius is just yet another mage unit.

[Quintessence]

Isn't this qualified as necroposting? Besides, it's already been declared a winner and proved Lucius is better than Priscilla.