What makes this the easiest FE game?

[Integrity]

Good Lord there man, snob much? Congratulations on playing the JP version and being holier than me.

What's stopping you from using your Paladins?

[Athe]

Good Lord there man, snob much? Congratulations on playing the JP version and being holier than me.

What's stopping you from using your Paladins?

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off that way. I was just trying to address the original question, which was why the US version might be the easiest of the Fire Emblems (I don't think it is, anyway), while also describing some difficulties I've encountered with the game, and those two topics probably didn't combine very well.

Paladins are great, but with an effective move of 4, I'm not sure how they would help me clear the chapter in 7 turns.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Athe

[Integrity]

Apology accepted. I probably overreacted anyway - there are a fair few people here who *actually* think themselves better for playing the Japanese versions, so I just lumped you in with them.

I actually had no idea Paladins were gimped to 4 MOV in C25. Goes to show how little I actually know about the chapter. That's just the boulders and the Bolt Axe guy, right? I seem to remember Kieran moving just fine...

[Balcerzak]

Frankly, having seen what BEXP does to HM, I doubt even Maniac Mode would be harder than FE8 Ephraim. Don't quote me on that, given that I haven't played MM beyond seeing (Balcerzak?) do it, but.

EDIT: It seems BEXP is halved and then some in MM, so you might want to take this above paragraph a little lighter than the rest.

This is actually the main reason I haven't gotten back to MM. The huge, huge, drastic cut in BEXP left me confused just how much I should put into Mia, because every bit Mia can't get means a later promotion for Marcia. But I really will need Mia in Ch8 etc., so maybe I should just suck it up and realize Marcia will have to promote 2-3 chapters later than where she could in US HM.

As for the topic, Titania, BEXP, Marcia/Jill, Paladins, shittons of money + forging.

Funny enough that's on NOA's shoulders too, as the JP version has stricter forging costs.

I actually had no idea Paladins were gimped to 4 MOV in C25. Goes to show how little I actually know about the chapter. That's just the boulders and the Bolt Axe guy, right? I seem to remember Kieran moving just fine...

I think the "justification" for that is the horses don't like climbing the mountain (probably better treated by introduction of unclimbable ledges in FE10)? I do distinctly remember Titania being severely hampered when I played through on a couple of modes, I thought it was more like 6 mov instead of 4. I haven't played it in ages, and could be confusing the penalty with RD's indoor penalty or just completely off my rocker.

Looking at the SF Terrain data page though, it seems 4 is right, as Mountain path is classified as the Sand category with a 2 to 1 movement cost for horse units and armors.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Integrity]

Maybe I was just confused because I had the Boots on Kieran and 5 MOV + Canto is acceptable at least? Dunno.

[Celice]

Maybe I'm just a baed FE player, but I've been having a lot of trouble on Chapter 25 Maniac Mode getting through without any deaths and within 7 turns. I'd been training mostly paladins for the entire game, and suddenly not being able to use three of my best units and one of my healers was a pretty nasty surprise (desert chapter is still a cakewalk on MM). The Iron Ballista and four Blizzard Sages prevent me from being able to send in fliers, and even with a Full Guard, using a flier to tank the enemies (all promoted, by the way) has too high a failure rate to be viable, or so it seems to me. Then when I finally get near the top on the eastern side, three rocks come rolling down, taking off 30 HP from one of my ground units and leaving it easy prey for the Wyvern Lords (there are eight Wyvern Lord reinforcements and three Cats, not three and two respectively like I've read is the case in US Hard Mode). And this is with ridiculously overgrowthed units in Random Mode - I have no idea how I will handle this in Fixed Mode. Of course, IS did make the maps and set turn limits, so I guess I'm probably just bad at the game.

On the other hand, I watched some videos of US Hard Mode, and it's a complete joke - enemies are underleveled and few in number, and you get double BEXP compared to MM, so you can use pretty much anyone you like and still win. Given that it was Normal Mode on the JP version, I don't think this is too surprising. I don't know how anyone can put up with US Hard Mode.

I gave up on that chapter as well. It was just bleh. I mean, it's perfectly doable, but it didn't feel worth it to bother after those rocks and dragon riders started to descend on everyting :P

To make the difficulty switch even funnier, not only did normal become hard and easy become normal, and even easier mode was implemented to replace Maniac Mode. International players got their difficulty kicked down an entire floor XD I do remember that when the game first came out, one member basically threw Haar out there... and he destroyed everything. Everything. That goddamn Cancel skill man, that goddamn Cancel skill...

I probably overreacted anyway - there are a fair few people here who *actually* think themselves better for playing the Japanese versions, so I just lumped you in with them.

... At least you're honest. Edited July 6, 2011 by Celice

[Integrity]

... At least you're honest.

I do hold that up as my defining characteristic.

[Rewjeo]

Wait, but your username is "Integrity."

Anyways, on-topic: Despite taking out MM and adding EM along with other changes, PoR is still generally considered harder than Sacred Stones. Wow, FE8 really is incredibly easy compared to the rest of the series.

[Integrity]

As far as I've seen, the "general consensus" you're pointing at doesn't really exist.

[riariadne]

The topic title sort of implies this is the easiest FE game. I... really don't think it is, so I'm going to just give reasons why it's easier than some of the other games but not easiest.

First of all, you get BEXP, which makes anybody really usable if you desperately want to use them... and people who are already good even better. You can use pretty much anyone and not run into too many difficulties. If Skills are also pretty useful, and the fact your units tend to have them and enemies don't makes them even better. Other than bosses, how many enemies really have skills? All I can think of is Adept Swordsmasters and Guard Generals in Endgame. It simplifies things a lot.

You also get four awesome units from Chapter 1 to kick things off. No FE game really gives you such an incredible start. The closest I can think of would probably be F6 with Alan and Lance from the getgo.

The enemies are really awful. Like, go look at the stats thread. It's bad. The bosses aren't bad- better than FE8s for sure, but otherwise it's really just pathetic.

You get a total of 5 horseback units before midgame, all of who are good, and two fliers, both of who are awesome. FE9 is the Paladin and Wings Show unless you're restricting yourself to certain units. There is also typically not much terrain to stop them, either (which isn't even a problem for the fliers).

Forging system is crazy.

You get so much damn money. It's hilarious. I'm terrible at money managing in FE and after my first playthrough, never once did I have money problems.

All these in tandem trivialize a lot of the game. It's still fun, though.

[Dark Sage]

I find this game easier than Sacred Stones for a few reasons. Namely, no Berserk Staff Druids with 23 magic, there are no generic enemies in PoR that can reach the attack level of Gorgons, and PoR has BEXP and forging.

[General Banzai]

I think the main thing is the the exp.

In FESS, exp gains suddenly turn to a crawl after Chapter 8. Tower abuse of course exists to remedy this, but by the time your units hit level 10 or so they start gaining very little exp from Valni as well.

In PoR meanwhile there isn't very much of a decrease in exp gains and bexp is at times ridiculous. It's hardly even an issue to have characters promoted by Ch 13 or 14.

Furthermore, the characters in PoR are overall better statistically than those in FESS, and the enemy stats aren't any better--at times even worse. And also, PoR has no chapter that's as difficult as even Ch 19 in FESS, let alone Phantom Ship.

FESS actually gets a bum rap on the difficulty level, but I feel it's a tad underrated. I'd even say it's more difficult than EHM.

[Hippoman]

The thing about Sacred Stones is that you can grind to make it pathetically easy, but that's kinda like saying Final Fantasy 1 is easier if you grind like crazy. With enough grinding, any RPG is trivialized.

[Florete]

The thing about Sacred Stones is that you can grind to make it pathetically easy, but that's kinda like saying Final Fantasy 1 is easier if you grind like crazy. With enough grinding, any RPG is trivialized.

You also have to consider that other FE's don't even have the same grinding options in the first place.

[General Banzai]

BEXP in PoR is worse than Valni abuse due to it being so quick, exploitable, and readily available. I mean, by the time Valni becomes available in FESS, people like Franz should only be making like 5 exp per kill there.

[Rewjeo]

That doesn't stop you from getting everyone to 20/1 before chapter 10. Not to mention that Franz will only be gaining such little experience if we're doing a Sethless run.

[Celice]

You also have to consider that other FE's don't even have the same grinding options in the first place.

Just a note: you can grind in FE2 the same exact way, and even farm rare items otherwise unobtainable.

However, it's just not worth it, considering the enemies... well, it'd be like grinding to 99 in a JRPG from the beginning of the game. have fun with that

Though I remember when FE8 first came out, replayable maps gave me a chance to use everyone I wanted. Which was interesting. I had around 100 hours on that cart... XD

[General Banzai]

That doesn't stop you from getting everyone to 20/1 before chapter 10. Not to mention that Franz will only be gaining such little experience if we're doing a Sethless run.

There's a huge difference between not using Seth at all and using him as a crutch.

But wait NEVERMIND EFFICIENCY

[Dark Sage]

There's a huge difference between not using Seth at all and using him as a crutch.

But wait NEVERMIND EFFICIENCY

You might as well say "PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT EFFICIENCY CAN SUCK A DICK" at this point my dear General.

[Lord Raven]

I played through FE7 Eliwood Normal today (my old harddrive crashed so i have to restart my files from scratch) and i beat it in like 11 hrs or so. I thought it was way easier than any experiences i had with FE9, personally, even compared to easy mode of FE9. For one, I actually was able to use like 25 units (i stopped leveling like half of those units around Chapter 26 though) and get them to mid-teens, I only promoted units around Chapter 27, etc and it was still way easier than any experience I had with FE9... Dorcas had 9 Spd and he wasn't even getting doubled in Chapter 30 (whereas even in FE9 HM ~CH22 9 speed gets doubled). Oswin had around 7-8 and he didn't have many doubling problems either.

Though, to be perfectly fair, if it weren't for Raven being such a powerhouse (got him from Level 3 to 17 in 2 chapters) I probably wouldn't have beat the morph bosses in the first half of the chapter. Still, I had way less difficulty on one playthrough of FE7 NM than FE9 EM.

[Rodykitty]

You also have to consider that other FE's don't even have the same grinding options in the first place.

The arena is a powerful form of grinding.

[samthedigital]

I thought it was way easier than any experiences i had with FE9, personally, even compared to easy mode of FE9.

When was the last time you played FE9EM? It is possible to get Oscar promoted in the first chapter where it is possible to access bonus exp, and it's not even a bad idea to do so. This is with heavy use of Titania in the previous chapters. That is indicative of how simple FE9EM is, but the game throws out enough bonus exp to do a lot more than that. I'm not going to claim that ENM is more difficult (though to be sure, I think that ENM is at least on even terms if not a little more difficult, but it's difficult to say because both games are remarkably simple), but I don't think that FE7 can compete with the sheer amount of promoted units that it is possible to get early in the easy mode of this game. Perhaps even then you could find ENM quite a bit easier since it's personal experience, but I still have a hard time believing that.

Edited July 7, 2011 by samthedigital

[Rewjeo]

There's a huge difference between not using Seth at all and using him as a crutch.

But wait NEVERMIND EFFICIENCY

I'm confused. Unless we're doing a Sethless run, Franz isn't going to be so important as to be super high leveled by chapter 9, regardless of whether or not efficiency is involved.

[General Banzai]

I'm confused. Unless we're doing a Sethless run, Franz isn't going to be so important as to be super high leveled by chapter 9, regardless of whether or not efficiency is involved.

Even with Seth dicking around and doing stuff, Franz is the only other viable frontline combat unit until Vanessa gains a coupla levels.

And also, considering that the exp nerfs in HM only start happening on Chapter 9, it's prudent to get your guys as highly leveled as possible before then, when they can still get 30 exp a kill even if they're somewhat overleveled.

[Lord Raven]

When was the last time you played FE9EM? It is possible to get Oscar promoted in the first chapter where it is possible to access bonus exp, and it's not even a bad idea to do so. This is with heavy use of Titania in the previous chapters. That is indicative of how simple FE9EM is, but the game throws out enough bonus exp to do a lot more than that. I'm not going to claim that ENM is more difficult (though to be sure, I think that ENM is at least on even terms if not a little more difficult, but it's difficult to say because both games are remarkably simple), but I don't think that FE7 can compete with the sheer amount of promoted units that it is possible to get early in the easy mode of this game. Perhaps even then you could find ENM quite a bit easier since it's personal experience, but I still have a hard time believing that.

It's also possible to boss abuse Dorcas and Sain/Kent, and promote the latter two before starting Eliwood's quest... I ranked FE7 NM (got an A, my 755K in assets didn't quite cut a 5* Funds but everything else was 5*) and I had a bit of an easier time than playing through FE9 EM. To each their own though.

They're both easy/simple/whatnot but aside from some random super bosses in FE7 (fuck Linus, Lloyd, and Uhai, but FE9 had The Black Knight and Ashnard in compensation) I thought FE9 EM could be generally harder.

Then again last time i played FE9 em was literally years ago...