eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Why are we still arguing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) We're arguing it because it's important. Maybe we should call him Berf. I mean, that's perfectly acceptable. It makes no less sense than Belf. Edited February 11, 2012 by General Banzai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 We should call him Ted. Either way, this bickering probably isn't gonna help the project. Thanks to the attitudes I've encountered, I've ordered the game, and will brush up on my Japanese instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) We're arguing it because it's important. I'm thankful of not making an habit of eating in front of my PC. Either way, this bickering probably isn't gonna help the project. Thanks to the attitudes I've encountered, I've ordered the game, and will brush up on my Japanese instead. Excellent choice. Edited February 11, 2012 by TheEnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Surely we recognize that no English source would refer to him only as ベルフ or Berufu. Therefore, someone's subjective translation must be applied. Why would they use something people just made up instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Why would they use something people just made up instead? It was a justifiable localization change~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It was a justifiable localization change~ But it's not the official name. An FE wiki is the gospel according to IS, not a bunch of amateur translators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 An FE wiki is the gospel according to IS Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) There is no English "gospel" version of FE12, therefore any attempt to make an English reference to FE12 must go outside those bounds. Again, "Belf" is not official either, and it can require considerable digging to get a name that fits the intent better than an overly literal version. This FE12 translation has the tools to entirely replace the official translation where it has failed to exist, and it should do so. Edited February 11, 2012 by Othin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Wait, what? I think I might have used the wrong choice of words there, but my point is that an FE wiki is not a place where one espouses individual interpretations of things in the Fire Emblem series. It's a place for official information only. There is no English "gospel" version of FE12, therefore any attempt to make an English reference to FE12 must go outside those bounds. Again, "Belf" is not official either, and it can require considerable digging to get a name that fits the intent better than an overly literal version. There is no TCG card with Belf, but the fact is that there is no interpretation of his name that even remotely resembles "Vergil." Serebii and Bulbapedia use literal interpretations of the Japanese Pokemon names for reference all of the time (Charizard - Lizardon, Gardevoir - Sirknight); there is no reason why an FE wiki should not do the same. I don't personally believe that the other side even has a legitimate argument here. Of course localization changes are used to make names sound more natural in the translated language, but the big distinction here is that localization changes produced by NoA are official, whereas this translation is not. I know that there are quite a few people that seem to take official status with a grain of salt, but you probably don't realize that this official status has the ability to change everything (whereas this translation will only be regarded as, at best, a niche interpretation among SF members). Until NoA states otherwise, Belf is officially Belf*. * Some asshat who thinks he knows Japanese is probably going to contest this with a pedantic argument indicating how the kana can be anglicized in multiple ways. You can fuck off, because you're missing the point. Edited February 11, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Japanese TCG cards do not contain translations anyway; they contain romanizations. Haven't we been over this same matter already? Serebii and Bulbapedia may reference the Japanese names, but they have never used the Japanese name for a Pokemon as the primary long-term name the Pokemon is referred to by. They have used the Japanese names as the primary name temporarily while awaiting an English release, but all Pokemon released in Japan have been released in America, so there was never a need to use the name permanently. That's the core difference here: The main Pokemon games all get released in America eventually, while the main Fire Emblem games don't, and they must be dealt with differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Japanese TCG cards do not contain translations anyway; they contain romanizations. Haven't we been over this same matter already? Yes, we've been over this matter already. You still seem to be confused between a translation and a romanization. The choice of kana in Japanese loanwords from foreign languages (well, I guess names are sort of loanwords) is only supposed to approximate the pronunciation. There is always an actual foreign name from which each Japanese translation is obtained. See the TCG cards for Ellerean and Malliesia. Clearly those are not simple romanizations under any sort of widely recognized romanization system. Serebii and Bulbapedia may reference the Japanese names, but they have never used the Japanese name for a Pokemon as the primary long-term name the Pokemon is referred to by. They have used the Japanese names as the primary name temporarily while awaiting an English release, but all Pokemon released in Japan have been released in America, so there was never a need to use the name permanently. That's the core difference here: The main Pokemon games all get released in America eventually, while the main Fire Emblem games don't, and they must be dealt with differently. Uhh, no they don't. Let's pretend that the 4th generation of Pokemon was never released in the US. Garchomp would forever be officially referred to as "Gablias," not some arbitrary made-up name by the fanbase. I don't understand how you could possibly argue otherwise. Edited February 11, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Simple solution to this silly little "wiki" distraction: use Belf and mention is was localized as Vergil by FE12's translation project. Problem solved, the gospel is preserved. It's that people want to see the project and its merit, which at the point it is, is very little that Arch and Blazer are capable of showing (luckily TheEnd isn't a bloke from the corner!). Hell, I still remember how Arch couldn't figure out how the "w-sounding" kana works and thought that some character using it in their name was being wrongly referred to by every fan ever. There's a certain level of shiftiness that's viewed with decisions when the decisions are being explained/made by someone with shifty footing themselves. Wow. Isn't this just the silliest little thing? I'm not even a part of the project anymore, dude. If you think I represent the translation team, you're very sorely mistaken. I'm just another bloke from the corner, just like you. Honestly, this whole attack is just ridiculous. The anecdote especially, because it's totally blown out of proportion. I hardly even remember it happening, but I certainly never declared that every fan was wrong. Hell, I was wrong, and when someone pointed that out to me I backed down. Admittedly I don't know kana that well, I know English. I think the point of translation is to make the game English, not kana in the English alphabet. I'm approaching this as an English-speaker, and one that wants a game that's thoroughly localized. Let's get to the actual issue (no more of these petty little insults). We can talk about the merit of the translation, I'd encourage people to have that debate. To me, a meritorious translation does not keep names like Xyst, Asseray, Siglud, Riff, Zagaro, Way, or Belf. A meritorious translation delivers a quality product, a localization that looks like it came from Nintendo of America themselves. As far as I'm concerned, this is the official translation. There will never be anything more official than this, and it ought to be treated as such. The product should strive for that professional caliber of work. That means, ya know, betraying the holy kana for the sake of improving the quality of the product. Edited February 11, 2012 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Simple solution to this silly little "wiki" distraction: use Belf and mention is was localized as Vergil by FE12's translation project. Problem solved, the gospel is preserved. Wow. Isn't this just the silliest little thing? I'm not even a part of the project anymore, dude. If you think I represent the translation team, you're very sorely mistaken. I'm just another bloke from the corner, just like you. Honestly, this whole attack is just ridiculous. The anecdote especially, because it's totally blown out of proportion. I hardly even remember it happening, but I certainly never declared that every fan was wrong. Hell, I was wrong, and when someone pointed that out to me I backed down. Admittedly I don't know kana that well, I know English. I think the point of translation is to make the game English, not kana in the English alphabet. I'm approaching this as an English-speaker, and one that wants a game that's thoroughly localized. Let's get to the actual issue (no more of these petty little insults). We can talk about the merit of the translation, I'd encourage people to have that debate. To me, a meritorious translation does not keep names like Xyst, Asseray, Siglud, Riff, Zagaro, Way, or Belf. A meritorious translation delivers a quality product, a localization that looks like it came from Nintendo of America themselves. As far as I'm concerned, this is the official translation. There will never be anything more official than this, and it ought to be treated as such. The product should strive for that professional caliber of work. That means, ya know, betraying the holy kana for the sake of improving the quality of the product. There we go; we have now discovered the correct answer. That is the exact same kind of thing that the FE localization team states that they strive to do when they localize a game. They want to give the impression that the game was originally in English. That is what we should strive to do; failing to do so gives the community a sub-par product. I agree with almost everything said in this quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) WHAT IN THE EVERLASTING FUCK People PEOPLE are you all seriously still arguing over BELF. Belf. BELF. Fucking BELF. If the people who care this much about Belf want to have him as "Belf" then take the text editor that I'm sure will be thrown out at us when this is released and NAME HIM BELF YOURSELVES. Honestly, it's a fucking name for a fucking side character. I don't know about the whole lot of you, but I'm more interested in this thing actually getting finished, not the name of one character who wasn't even in FE3 in the first place. Do any of you who are arguing this think this is accomplishing anything? Does it add any value to the project, just insulting each other and arguing "oh you've gotta use the kana, oh you've gotta localize is properly", fucking call him BOB and translate the text already! This whole, pointless mess does nothing other than slow down the people working on the translation. LET THEM BE AND FOCUS ON AN ACTUAL PROBLEM. Oh my god you people this is seriously ridiculous. inb4 a buncha people go "but it is a problem wah wah wah" Edited February 12, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Trent's post for truth. You people are still arguing about something so insignificant as the name? Seriously. It's a name. Get over it. Stop clogging up the team with useless comments about one name and let them work. For one, I want to see the supports. It seems so interesting and I can't read moonspeak, and I look forward to them being released~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Posts in this thread in no way hold up progress--unless the translators' computers freeze every time the thread is updated with new content. I suppose in that way members do control the pace at which the project is completed. I don't suppose it works like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Posts in this thread in no way hold up progress Inside info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Unless your minds have changed, it was already decided the name is Vergil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 i thought it was jaymez or are we talking about someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If you don't think it's a problem, then stop posting in this thread, rather than complaining about how it's not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Anything that can affect the minds of the translators can affect the project. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible and naive, nothing more. Edited February 12, 2012 by Othin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 so his name is jaymez or... also, i agree, let's argue it out, because since we're on the internet, we can always find a way to win and push our point/opinion across! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Anything that can affect the minds of the translators can affect the project. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible and naive, nothing more. The translators are able-minded individuals. If they want to stop progress, that's on them, their choice. They may react to the posts in the thread, but the posts are not responsible for anything. The translators would be responsible for their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) If you don't think it's a problem, then stop posting in this thread, rather than complaining about how it's not a problem. Well then the translators will get the wrong message that "everyone wants X", when only a handful of people want X and the majority just isn't bitching about it because they like it the way it was decided/don't give a shit about it. Both sides need to be heard, I guess. Edited February 12, 2012 by Knuckles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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