CT075 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's funny that Furret just posted here, I was actually about to mention that I can only think of one person who actually gives a crap about Belf himself and that guy calls him "Vergil". And I'm honestly more bothered that they're apparently gonna gonna call Malice "Maris" but I really just want this finished. Personal attack count in the last three pages: 4 And I'm honestly more bothered that there have been whoever-the-fuck knows how many pages PURELY of people arguing Belf/Vergil but everyone knows how much my opinion means. I can't believe you're still arguing over Belf/Vergil... Seriously, change it for yourself when it's released :/ THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 A poll shouldn't decide the translation either way. >.> Neither should you. You know who should? The translation team. And they did. So PLEASE get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I can see it just being locked instead, once the mods stop being entertained by it. Hey, if the translation team wants this closed or open, they should just PM a mod and say so (assuming they already haven't). Personally I've been tempted to close this one for a while. Vincent has that power too and he checks the thread rather often so I assume he doesn't want it closed yet or something. Edited February 12, 2012 by Sirius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 >Malicia and Malice in the same game Malicia should be Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Malicia should be Melissa It shouldn't and it won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Malicia should be Melissa i just love this guy first he tries trolling the FE10 tier list a year and a half ago then he tries trolling the LTC crowd and now he's moved on to the translation project if there's anything we've learned about banzai it's that he always manages to outdo himself some way or another anyway Malicia or Melissa, why the hell does--or should--it matter anyway Edited February 12, 2012 by Black★Rock Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) What I notice is missing here is, well, reasoning in general. It's obvious the different sides don't agree, and just saying the same thing over and over again probably won't change that. WHY should the translation team, rather than polls, choose names? It seems to me that something that is being done for the sake of entertaining many people then the translation team should do what will make that group happiest, yet there have been cases where they ask people what they want and when public opinion doesn't match theirs, they ignore it. What makes anyone think that a random group of video game enthusiasts alone know what those people will like more than those people themselves? I have seen, from some people, this idea of "my pleasure is more important than everyone else's." I don't like the change to Malicia, but if I was shown that the majority of fans wanted that to be the name, I wouldn't complain about it. Last I saw, though, the change was made in spite of the one poll they'd done. That alone is enough to upset me. In the end, the names don't matter *that* much and people will use it anyway because having it in English is good enough. But why should it stop at good enough? Edited February 12, 2012 by Rewjeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 What I notice is missing here is, well, reasoning in general. It's obvious the different sides don't agree, and just saying the same thing over and over again probably won't change that. WHY should the translation team, rather than polls, choose names? It seems to me that something that is being done for the sake of entertaining many people then the translation team should do what will make that group happiest, yet there have been cases where they ask people what they want and when public opinion doesn't match theirs, they ignore it. What makes anyone think that a random group of video game enthusiasts alone know what those people will like more than those people themselves? I have seen, from some people, this idea of "my pleasure is more important than everyone else's." I don't like the change to Malicia, but if I was shown that the majority of fans wanted that to be the name, I wouldn't complain about it. Last I saw, though, the change was made in spite of the one poll they'd done. That alone is enough to upset me. In the end, the names don't matter *that* much and people will use it anyway because having it in English is good enough. But why should it stop at good enough? You're making the mistake of assuming that going with what the polls say will make the group happier. It won't. Going with the poll will make the people who voted for the popular option happy and will make the people who voted for other options unhappy. Meanwhile, if the translators simply hand down a name from a dictatorial position without asking anyone else, people will just live with that game, and they'll enjoy it more than if they had been offered the chance to get the name they wanted only to have that chance snatched away by other players. And if the translators give polls for several names, in the end, almost everyone will wind up voting for a losing option on one of the polls, so everyone's unhappy. Do you see that kind of unhappiness with regard to the official translations? No, you don't. The official translations are simply dictated and are sometimes questionable, but people are satisfied with them more than they can ever be satisfied with a translation they think they have a voice in. And yeah, games like FE have people that aren't satisfied with existing translations. You know what they have in common? They're familiar with other alternatives. Name translations are a trivial matter; as long as they're handled decently well, no one will want other options unless they're offered other options. Let the translation team do what they want, what they think is best. This will be best for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It shouldn't and it won't be. 1. Malliesia has too many vowels, including two dipthongs, making it difficult to know how to pronounce and giving it a distinctively un-English feel. 2. Malicia is too similar to Malice. 3. Melissa is an actual name and it's very close to original Katakana anyways. I have no idea why you think it shouldn't be Melissa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 1. Malliesia has too many vowels, including two dipthongs, making it difficult to know how to pronounce and giving it a distinctively un-English feel. Which is why it isn't being used. 2. Malicia is too similar to Malice. Which is why we're using Maris. 3. Melissa is an actual name and it's very close to original Katakana anyways. Nope. Look at these: メリッサ マリーシア I have no idea why you think it shouldn't be Melissa. I'm not saying my opinion. I'm informing you of something. Something that was decided six months ago, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm happy with whatever names you guys choose to go with as long as the game gets a finished translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm not saying my opinion. I'm informing you of something. Something that was decided six months ago, by the way. I actually have an interesting question. How is the team dealing with names setup by Vincent's and RPGGuy's FE3 translation? Technically they've served to establish a standard with the name's they've chosen. NoA and NoE trumps some of the translation choices if you're adhering to official translations, but there's still a large chunk of names which were decided on and established in the English-speaking fan-base from that translation. Were any of the names carried over, or is it going to be a fresh batch of translations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Nope. Look at these: メリッサ マリーシア Merissa versus Mariishia. Yeah, they're pretty damn similar. Edited February 12, 2012 by General Banzai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I actually have an interesting question. How is the team dealing with names setup by Vincent's and RPGGuy's FE3 translation? Technically they've served to establish a standard with the name's they've chosen. NoA and NoE trumps some of the translation choices if you're adhering to official translations, but there's still a large chunk of names which were decided on and established in the English-speaking fan-base from that translation. Were any of the names carried over, or is it going to be a fresh batch of translations? We're following the NoA canon and, as a general rule, we don't use that FE3 translation as reference. But naturally, some names are carried over because we can't find better alternatives for them - for instance, Luke is staying as Luke. On the other hand, Cecil is likely becoming Cecille. (If I see a shitstorm because of Cecille... I'll do what I can to keep you guys in the dark until the patch is released.) Edited February 12, 2012 by TheEnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 No, Cecille would actually be a good translation choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Merissa versus Mariishia. Yeah, they're pretty damn similar. You can only really read the kana in one way (wa/e particles aside); it isn't like in English where 'read' is pronounced differently depending on what tense you're using. They're as similar as Banzai and Benza are. Edited February 12, 2012 by TheEnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You're making the mistake of assuming that going with what the polls say will make the group happier. It won't. Going with the poll will make the people who voted for the popular option happy and will make the people who voted for other options unhappy. As opposed to taking a poll and then choosing the option that got fewer votes? Meanwhile, if the translators simply hand down a name from a dictatorial position without asking anyone else, people will just live with that game, and they'll enjoy it more than if they had been offered the chance to get the name they wanted only to have that chance snatched away by other players. Except that has happened. And if the translators give polls for several names, in the end, almost everyone will wind up voting for a losing option on one of the polls, so everyone's unhappy. Thus you have multiple rounds of polls so things like second picks get taken into account. It's not like everyone will cry when that one name they wanted doesn't get picked. Do you see that kind of unhappiness with regard to the official translations? No, you don't. The official translations are simply dictated and are sometimes questionable, but people are satisfied with them more than they can ever be satisfied with a translation they think they have a voice in. People have had years to get over the name changes, and certain ones (Caeda...) are still widely unused. And yeah, games like FE have people that aren't satisfied with existing translations. You know what they have in common? They're familiar with other alternatives. Name translations are a trivial matter; as long as they're handled decently well, no one will want other options unless they're offered other options. So it's okay that African children are starving to death as long as we don't let them know it's possible to not be starving to death? Extreme example, I know, but not letting people know there's a better alternative doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Besides, it's a little late for them to make certain decisions private. Let the translation team do what they want, what they think is best. This will be best for everyone. What makes their opinions so much more valuable than the other fans'? I'm happy with whatever names you guys choose to go with as long as the game gets a finished translation. In the end, I think everyone is... It's just people could be happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 What makes their opinions so much more valuable than the other fans'? Maybe the fact that they're the ones creating this translation patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You can only really read the kana in one way (wa/e particles aside); it isn't like in English where 'read' is pronounced differently depending on what tense you're using. They're as similar as Banzai and Benza are. パーシバル ペルスヴェル Both are pretty clearly meant to be "Percival," but they're done in two completely different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 As opposed to not taking a poll at all. There should be no polls, no requests for input other than from a small (single-digit, preferably) number of dedicated translators. Apparently plenty of people will cry this way, and more polls won't help a bit. What about the people who don't get either their first or second picks, or who lose their first pick because of someone else's second pick? It doesn't work; polls only leave people dissatisfied. You're only proving my point. People dislike Caeda because they were already familiar with the name Sheeda. If a new FE game was released with a Pegasus Knight named Caeda, no one would have complained. Actual issues like starvation are entirely different because people actually benefit when the issues are addressed well. If there are two starving children, and you can only give food to one, it's better to do that, even if it'll make the other one jealous. But let's say there are two other children, siblings who don't have trouble getting food. You can give a piece of candy to just one of them and make the other one jealous, or you can do nothing. You'll probably want to do nothing, because the benefit of the candy isn't worth the damage from the jealousy. The translation team's opinions are more valuable not because of the quality of the opinions, but because of what the opinions can accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We're following the NoA canon and, as a general rule, we don't use that FE3 translation as reference. But naturally, some names are carried over because we can't find better alternatives for them - for instance, Luke is staying as Luke. On the other hand, Cecil is likely becoming Cecille. (If I see a shitstorm because of Cecille... I'll do what I can to keep you guys in the dark until the patch is released.) Can I ask why you picked Cecille over Cecile, given that Cecile is a much more common name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 パーシバル ペルスヴェル how much japanese do you know oh right stick to english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenlord Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm tempted to release the text editor with a "bug" that causes all attempts to insert Belf into the game turn up as Vergil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) What makes their opinions so much more valuable than the other fans'? In my case, six years of Japanese studies and three translated manga. It isn't much, I know, but it's more experience than most western FE fans have. パーシバル ペルスヴェル Both are pretty clearly meant to be "Percival," but they're done in two completely different ways. Except that Malicia isn't "clearly meant" to be Melissa. Persvel sounds stupid so you have no choice than forcing yourself to accept they were trying not-so-successfully to say Percival. Malicia, however, is a word (even if not an English word - that'd be malice) and a name. And it fits the character thus named. There's no motive to discard it as gibberish and "fix" it. Can I ask why you picked Cecille over Cecile, given that Cecile is a much more common name? To be honest, I don't know and I don't care. And you shouldn't either. They're both equally valid variations of a name. I don't see why there would be an issue with either. I'm tempted to release the text editor with a "bug" that causes all attempts to insert Belf into the game turn up as Vergil. Add a Malliesia bug too Edited February 12, 2012 by TheEnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 >Malicia and Malice in the same game There are other options for the staff girl, I'm not going to argue about it though. The last thing we need is more arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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