Fire Emblem 12 ~Heroes~ Translation Project

[dondon151]

Also, he's called Klein most likely because of

Yes, in the same official art that used "Secilia" for "Cecilia," "Ogier" for "OJ," "Thite" for whatever she's supposed to be, etc.

The first time he went "Oh you can't use that, it's not what the game says" and now he's saying "You can't use that, it's not what we're used to". He just wants what he wants, not what's actually best.

Clearly, you missed what I wrote here (the "first time"):

1. "Rainbow Potion" is the name used on the site and is also the name that all of the FE12 "veterans" commonly use. It's almost like changing "Barst" back to "Barts" because of the translators' personal preferences - why eschew an already commonly used name for the item? I am almost entirely sure that the 180 or so people who voted for "Star Potion" didn't even bother taking this fact into account. I don't understand why it's a problem to abbreviate it when some weapons are already abbreviated.

Edited August 5, 2011 by dondon151

[Momo]

Yes, in the same official art that used "Secilia" for "Cecilia," "Ogier" for "OJ," "Thite" for whatever she's supposed to be, etc.

I don't govern the names people use, it was just speculation.

Clearly, you missed what I wrote here (the "first time"):

1. "Rainbow Potion" is the name used on the site and is also the name that all of the FE12 "veterans" commonly use. It's almost like changing "Barst" back to "Barts" because of the translators' personal preferences - why eschew an already commonly used name for the item? I am almost entirely sure that the 180 or so people who voted for "Star Potion" didn't even bother taking this fact into account. I don't understand why it's a problem to abbreviate it when some weapons are already abbreviated.

Then when you got a response you used the "But the game says different" excuse, which you've already mentioned you didn't care about.

[Darros]

Tiny menu font implemented. Hopefully we didn't go overboard : P

That looks wonderful, and I don't think it looks igly at all next to the Silver Card's regular sized letters.

Also, FE4's arena has a Nazarl. (Nabarl)

[Rewjeo]

So FE6's is Kuraein, while FE12's is Kuraine? Is that it?

Edit: Derp, mixed up katakana re and ra.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Rewjeo

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I see no reason to needlessly change accepted character names personally, and would like to see Kleine return, as it's not only a more accurate name IMO, but an accepted one in the community for quite a while now.

EDIT: In fact, I'd like to see that character name list just for the sake of seeing what else has been changed unnecessarily.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Seven Deadly Sins

[Paperblade]

My issue with just changing the names, especially since these are names from FE3--a game which has been out in Japan for nearly 20 years, is that if VASM and the translation team thought these names were better for whatever reason, why isn't this reflected on the main site?

[grandjackal]

My issue with just changing the names, especially since these are names from FE3--a game which has been out in Japan for nearly 20 years, is that if VASM and the translation team thought these names were better for whatever reason, why isn't this reflected on the main site?

Probably because, oh I dunno, patch isn't 100% complete and still working on decisions for names in the first place?

[Paperblade]

Probably because, oh I dunno, patch isn't 100% complete and still working on decisions for names in the first place?

I'm asking why we're making translation decisions for the remake of a game that was originally released in 1994--a game that has had a translation patch for several years. While I am not suggesting we copypaste the FE3 script, I sincerely doubt they altered the names of characters. Rainbow Potion is one thing since it's new to the remake. But why is there an argument about Malliesia, who was in the original Book 2?

[Crimson Red]

^This

Also some names do not fit IIRC and some names are not as accurate translations as they could be or are not as good localized versions as they could be, we could just use whatever names were in FE3 but we'd get an equal amount of complaints from people that we shouldn't be lazy and we should do a retranslation and localization. The way I see it the amount of people who are going to play FE12's translation patch that have also already played FE3 is a small percentage. That being said we tried to stick to FE11's and FE3's name as much as possible, I think. I don't know.

Hey, speaking of all this, where is Arch? I should get him to say something, sneaky ass...

Also, by what Rewjeo said and my limited knowledge of Japanese which I don't suggest anyone takes into heart:

Kureine would be slurred to "Krein" which could be translated as Clain or Claine in English IMO (somebody suggested Crane...) and Kuraine is Ku-ra-i-ne (4 katakana) so it should have 4 syllables or something, if we're going to assume the 'r' changes to an 'l' in English (I've only seen 'r' used in Crane which doesn't seem very popular) then it should be Ku-la-i-ne which if you pronounce the 'i' as a long 'e' (ee or something) sounds like Ku-la-ee-ne or Klein using English's weird way of spelling things and getting rid of extra vowels attached to consonants of Japanese katakana (what I call "slurring").

In short FE6's Klein should be Clain and FE12's Clain should be Klein.

And THAT is why I don't do any of the real translation work for this team ^_^ in case it wasn't obvious enough, even I don't think my logic is good

Edited August 5, 2011 by Luffy

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Or just call them both "Klein" and stop caring so much about it.

At the end of the day, a slight mis-romanization to conform to accepted standards for a patch that is only intended to tide fans over until Nintendo can afford the expensive and painful surgery needed to pull its collective head out of its ass and release FE12 stateside isn't really a big deal. If being "mostly accurate" is the goal and it's not going to matter either way, why not use the one that we've been working with for upwards of a year? You'll get complainers on each side, but manual localization provides no benefit and a tangible harm, while use of accepted names doesn't cause any problems whatsoever.

(also clain and malicia look stupid, at least "malice" is a word)

[VincentASM]

I dunno, I quite like the idea of the FE12 translation patch slightly diverging from FE3 or its translation.

I mean, it's not like the FE3 translation was perfect, especially when, back then, it was pretty much just me deciding all the names and conventions. Now we've got a whole team of people (and, I suppose, a fair chunk of the community) to make decisions on various things.

[dondon151]

Because, for the sake of simplicity, it's best to not change accepted conventions? Particularly for things as benign as fictional names in a turn based strategy RPG.

I mean, you have the tacit approval of basically everyone who has posted in this forum for the original translations. Why change them for the sake of something as abstract as translational accuracy, especially for proper nouns that aren't in common use in the English language?

[VincentASM]

To be completely honest and I'm hoping to be as inoffensive as possible, I'm a bit tired of explaining and defending our translation choices. Of course, everybody is still free to post their opinions, no matter how critical they are, since that's why we made this thread, the blog and all. However, I think I'll personally take a breather from any more questions that require me to think for more than a few seconds.

Arch, Blazer, you're up!

For now, I think I'll play the "boss" card. Since we've devoted so much time into this project willingly and without pay, I think we've earned the privilege (not "right") to make certain decisions that we as a team feel is correct. And this includes shoving some of FE3's official/unofficial conventions out of the house in favour of what we believe are better options.

[Rewjeo]

Hmm, it seems to me that Klaina (or something similar) would be the best localization of Kuraine. I mean, they could easily have made it Kurain and stopped there. IS clearly wanted a vowel sound at the end.

[Arch]

Alright, looks like it's my turn to bat.

Kleine vs. Claine is a ridiculous debate. We decided on Claine, and that two major characters with very similar names was a bit much. Now, Kleine is a new character in the sub-plot of a Japanese-only remake. It's not like this name has been engraved in the brains of every fan since forever. But even then, the FE12 translation team is not afraid to challenge these "accepted conventions." The FE4 translation challenged a lot of "accepted conventions," as did FE6's translation by using the names NoA provided with FE7 (Zephyr -> Zephiel, for example). We are definitely using any FE11 NoA names, that's not open for discussion. As for FE12 names, you're free to discuss and you're free to suggest. But when we make a decision after a discussion, or if a discussion is initiated and we stick to our decision anyways, that's the way it's going to be. I think it's fantastic that we are so open with fan-input. Don't make us regret that openness by forcing us to tirelessly defend ourselves against a constant assault on our decisions. We're trying to take a middle-of-the-road approach on this subject; but no matter what, names will be changed and "accepted conventions" will be challenged. This is the route we're choosing to take: not performing over-the-top radical name changes, but at the same time making positive changes. All of our changes are made with the best interest of the project at heart. At the end of the day, we're just trying to make the best product we can create.

Kleine vs. Claine is decided. Claine will be used; it's a more feminine name and is different enough from Klein, a playable sniper from FE6. Claine isn't an overwhelmingly radical change, and the character has not been around for eons (and is very likely only familiar to those who have played the Japanese FE12).

Edited August 5, 2011 by Rodimus Supreme OVERTROLL

[Rewjeo]

I feel like it should have a vowel sound at the end, and, well, the 'e' at the end doesn't suggest that. Mind you, I like Claine more than Kleine, but, in my opinion, something like Claina would be better still.

[Arch]

While changing her name even more wouldn't be something I would oppose, we have to keep one thing in mind: this name actually has a technical limitation attached. Katarina's true name is based on the last four letters of Claine's. Kleine gives us "Eine," Claine gives us "Aine." So making any further changes also effects Katarina, and we want both characters' names to sound proper.

[Crimson Red]

I'm up? I dunno, I think I did enough, I say Arch should take the job of analyzing the suggestions given XD especially since Vincent and I are doing most of the hacking discoveries ATM

It's interesting to see other people's unique opinions though...

Edited August 5, 2011 by Luffy

[Rewjeo]

While changing her name even more wouldn't be something I would oppose, we have to keep one thing in mind: this name actually has a technical limitation attached. Katarina's true name is based on the last four letters of Claine's. Kleine gives us "Eine," Claine gives us "Aine." So making any further changes also effects Katarina, and we want both characters' names to sound proper.

True. Although, isn't Aine the romaji? If it is, Aina would work just fine, IMO.

[Arch]

I'm definitely willing to take over the suggestion end of things. Since, yeah, I'm kinda useless ATM.

So yeah, I guess I'm the guy you'll all be screaming at now.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Arch

[eclipse]

Please don't change Katarina's real name to Aina. I won't be able to take the patch seriously if I see Aina in there.

[General Banzai]

Why not call her Elaine?

[Arch]

I had an English teacher named Elaine, she was drunk on the job most of the time.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Arch

[Crimson Red]

Why not call her "that little traitorous bitch"? XD

Hey Arch, I didn't mean it so harsh XD you've been more useful as a whole than me haha

Anyhow wasn't there already an Elaine somewhere or am I just having delusions from watching The Graduate? XP

[shadowofchaos]

To be completely honest and I'm hoping to be as inoffensive as possible, I'm a bit tired of explaining and defending our translation choices. Of course, everybody is still free to post their opinions, no matter how critical they are, since that's why we made this thread, the blog and all. However, I think I'll personally take a breather from any more questions that require me to think for more than a few seconds.

Arch, Blazer, you're up!

For now, I think I'll play the "boss" card. Since we've devoted so much time into this project willingly and without pay, I think we've earned the privilege (not "right") to make certain decisions that we as a team feel is correct. And this includes shoving some of FE3's official/unofficial conventions out of the house in favour of what we believe are better options.

Alright, looks like it's my turn to bat.

Kleine vs. Claine is a ridiculous debate. We decided on Claine, and that two major characters with very similar names was a bit much. Now, Kleine is a new character in the sub-plot of a Japanese-only remake. It's not like this name has been engraved in the brains of every fan since forever. But even then, the FE12 translation team is not afraid to challenge these "accepted conventions." The FE4 translation challenged a lot of "accepted conventions," as did FE6's translation by using the names NoA provided with FE7 (Zephyr -> Zephiel, for example). We are definitely using any FE11 NoA names, that's not open for discussion. As for FE12 names, you're free to discuss and you're free to suggest. But when we make a decision after a discussion, or if a discussion is initiated and we stick to our decision anyways, that's the way it's going to be. I think it's fantastic that we are so open with fan-input. Don't make us regret that openness by forcing us to tirelessly defend ourselves against a constant assault on our decisions. We're trying to take a middle-of-the-road approach on this subject; but no matter what, names will be changed and "accepted conventions" will be challenged. This is the route we're choosing to take: not performing over-the-top radical name changes, but at the same time making positive changes. All of our changes are made with the best interest of the project at heart. At the end of the day, we're just trying to make the best product we can create.

Kleine vs. Claine is decided. Claine will be used; it's a more feminine name and is different enough from Klein, a playable sniper from FE6. Claine isn't an overwhelmingly radical change, and the character has not been around for eons (and is very likely only familiar to those who have played the Japanese FE12).

*clap*

Nicely said.

No matter what you do, there's gonna be at least SOMEONE who's not happy with name changes. It's in our nature as humans to not like change. If we're comfortable with something, and someone changes it, it just offends us.

The fact that you guys are taking input is already generous enough.