Don't you think we can be a little harsh on new users as a community at times?

[Defeatist Elitist]

I haven't found a something but I still put up with the rest of it, and the reason why is

I want to live,

I want to give

I've been a miner

For a heart of gold.

It's these expressions

I never give

That keep me searching

For a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching

For a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

I've been to Hollywood

I've been to Redwood

I crossed the ocean

For a heart of gold

I've been in my mind,

It's such a fine line

That keeps me searching

For a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching

For a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

Keep me searching

For a heart of gold

You keep me searching

For a heart of gold

And I'm getting old.

I've been a miner

For a heart of gold.

I can't believe I missed this, I love you so fucking much right now. Jesus christ.

[Dark Sage]

@bolded: hi you must be new here OH WAIT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU'RE NEW IT IS NOT MY JOB TO BE ALL SMILEY FACE

honestly I'm sick of little fucks showing up and using the fact that 'they're new' as some kind of shield, I don't care about that. You could have been here since opening or for all of forty-five seconds for all I care, if you can't earn my respect I will not hold back. If you want me to be nice, give me reason to give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise fuck off about my attitude.

I know this is a late reply, but this attitude really alarms me regarding new people. One of the first things you are taught in life is to treat people with respect unless they have proven they don't deserve it (reasons like if the person is smug, racist, does something dangerous or horrific, etc.). I am sure everyone here wants to be treated with respect and so they should give some in return. If a person cannot be arsed to show some courtesy, they should not talk on the internet. "Owning noobs" does not make you some sort of badass and I think people here forget that.

That said, there are some really annoying new people who jump onto a topic, spew out incorrect facts and if they're told politely they're wrong, they get mad and start a fight before ragequitting.

[Original Alear]

I know this is a late reply, but this attitude really alarms me regarding new people. One of the first things you are taught in life is to treat people with respect unless they have proven they don't deserve it (reasons like if the person is smug, racist, does something dangerous or horrific, etc.). I am sure everyone here wants to be treated with respect and so they should give some in return. If a person cannot be arsed to show some courtesy, they should not talk on the internet. "Owning noobs" does not make you some sort of badass and I think people here forget that.

Except the internet is a great place to be impolite for no reason because the lack of personal contact, and then fact that you can just place someone on your ignore list, and some people on SF and elsewhere will cheer you on for it (being rude, not putting someone on ignore). Moreover, since it's even harder to give a shit about what someone on the internet thinks about you than what someone in person thinks about you....

There are places which are different, though. I only know of one such place but I am sure there are more.

Also, in my opinion, smugness, racism (if not exercised through action) are not justifications for a lack of respect, and really, I'm not sure that heinous acts always are either....Especially not smugness. Just because someone has a giant ego doesn't mean you need to knock it down.

Finally, owning someone over the internet does not make you a badass, but it can be fun, even if you're deluded and the only one in on the joke.

[Lord Raven]

@bolded: hi you must be new here OH WAIT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF YOU'RE NEW IT IS NOT MY JOB TO BE ALL SMILEY FACE

honestly I'm sick of little fucks showing up and using the fact that 'they're new' as some kind of shield, I don't care about that. You could have been here since opening or for all of forty-five seconds for all I care, if you can't earn my respect I will not hold back. If you want me to be nice, give me reason to give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise fuck off about my attitude.

For example, if you had actually made a reasonable suggestion (such as a wiki), I would have actually supported this.

inb4 warn

Not to mention that you still haven't addressed the fact that your clause of 'must be completed' limits the english patches to about 14, 15 total. Maybe 18 if you're flexible with 'completed'

If you want to do this kind of thing, go do it yourself. I will again point you to the last time we tried this. It failed.

hi

you're like 14 years old

get some life experience first then talk

I'd like to expand on what Dark Sage is saying; you do not teach (or suggest, which is a form of teaching) in a harsh ton such as yourse. It makes you sound like an ingrate, and frankly the worst part is that you lack the tact to be an internet hardass.

I was discussing this in chat, but being a TA really illuminated me as to how not to teach or suggest things. You are only 14 years old, so you have absolutely no clue of what this entails because you're a youngster that thinks hes hot shit. Life hasn't hit you hard in the face yet and your ego has not yet been crushed; though, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be a hard ego to shatter. You do not teach people things by yelling at them, calling them stupid fucks, etc. You do not criticize a suggestion by flaming, no matter how stupid it may be in your eyes (seeing as newbies don't know what to expect, and not all of them know to lurk- jesus fucking christ, we aren't some fucking night club with a bouncer that kicks people out for being dumb and not lurking beforehand). You teach them the error of their ways in a stern, yet calm, voice because here's what happens if you keep on acting the way you do.

People bite back. Nothing gets done. They lose confidence. You come off as nothing but a pretentious prick. Did you know you are talking to people on the other side? Internet is pretty serious, considering it is a medium of people-to-people interaction. You may as well have done nothing to begin with, and the rising blood pressure of either party is not worth it; it's something that could've been easily avoided by not being an ass. It is nothing on our community that someone as young as yourself feels the need to be so high and mighty and aggressive; it is something to be said about your character. Justify whatever you want however you'd like, but you're still come off as a prick not only to me but to others in the community.

And I will happily aim this rant at others as well. Overall, thank you Dark Sage for bringing this thread to my attention, because that other day in IP.Chat really gave me the ability to express my thoughts on this issue. I've made some remarks that could make me a hypocrite, but it should do nothing but illustrate my point.

Going to try to refute me? lol fine, I've had far more experience teaching people than you have, even if it is just as a TA, so do your worst. Horace knows exactly where I'm coming from, too. I hate bragging about shit I do in real life- but if it gives someone like you some perspective, then it's fine by me.

Notice how some of the older (in terms of age) members are more welcoming/mellow/less likely to flip out on someone?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Blasied]

Sometimes, it really is for the best that we are harsh on new people IMO. Remember Tellius Roamers? If he had stayed any longer the anger would have made the world spontaneously combust.

I never experienced any of this harshness as a newbie (at least, I don't remember any) but I am not exactly a familiar face to most of you even now (or so I think). My fear of giving my opinion when not personally and directly asked for has kept me out of the spotlight.

[Tino]

I'm going to applaud Mercenary Raven for his response. That was excellent!

I would like to comment on this 'issue' as well.

In this topic I've read a lot of posts about new people being dumb. They don't know anything. What annoys me the most about this though, is that you guys then say that it's their fault they don't know anything! Rather than just jumping in, they should have lurked first. How twisted can this logic get?!

Let me get one thing straight: as members of this community, you should always try to work to get the community to grow. That means you - even if you're not a staff member - will have to help new members rather than smash them into the ground simply because they're new. Frankly, the people on this forum that do this disgust me. In fact, if you're one of the people who does this, you should be ashamed of yourself, arguably even more so if you're a long time member (and I deliberately don't use the term 'veteran' here).

New members should always be welcomed. Just because this is the internet, doesn't mean you should start being rude to somebody you don't know.

"But Tino, it's the internet, it's harsh everywhere!"

If you think that's the case, distinguish yourself from the rest of the internet! Rather than being harsh to newcomers, be kind and welcoming to them! Not only will that help the the community become more kind, but it will also help the forum grow. People make decisions based on first impressions most of the time. If they see a rude community, they won't join. If they join just to see what the forum is like and immediately get shot down, they'll leave immediately.

Now you say that this isn't a bad thing, right? They're just not ready for the 'harsh' internet? Same as above: then be the opposite from what you think the rest of the internet is like!

All this rudeness prevents the forum from growing to its fullest potential. Kindness is the way to go. Of course, being a bit rude to your friends is never a bad thing, and making rude jokes when appropriate also doesn't hurt. And of course, sometimes rudeness is just needed to tell people how wrong they are. However, rudeness is NOT needed to tell new members how terrible they are! Again, the people that do this simply disgust me!

If you still think you need to be rude to new members that seem to be new to the entire forum experience or public internet places, you're either a troll or a moron (they maybe they should be used interchangably) and you should *censored per Mercenary Raven's request*.

I'm done now.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Tino

[Lord Raven]

Don't say "just die in a hole" >_> Maybe I take comments like that a bit too seriously but I think you had good thing going and saying that just kinda ruined it.

[Ardan]

I mainly lurk and occasionally post nonsense on the fire emblem boards but this is one of the most interesting threads I've seen, esp in the last few posts.

[CT075]

Am I a terrible person? Maybe I am.

I wasn't even going to respond but I feel like I may as well fail at defending myself because I have nothing better to do than argue over the internet.

Truth be told, I could not honestly give a shit if people get mad at me because I said something insulting. Without even getting into the entire "the internet is anonymous" shitstorm, it's like that old saying - "sticks and stones may break my bones and words will never hurt me". Are my words so offending, so piercing to your soul that you are emotionally affected? Are my words truly more hurtful than any street thug's? Whether or not that makes it better, if I'm so insulting that you are forced to leave to avoid me than maybe you're better off. There are gonna be assholes in the world, and more than a few people would tell you that I am one of them (I agree, at times). If you can't accept that what I say is no worse than what you'd find in any community sooner or later in life, stop reading. Stop wasting your time on these paragraphs and go do something useful.

Still here? Fine. Contrary to popular belief, I am not initially hostile to new people. I will shout type inflammatory things at anybody whom I feel does not deserve a drawn-out response. I don't ask for much. A lack of grammar pisses me off, firstly, but I will overlook that if the problem is legitimate. All I ask is that a person actually attempts to learn before they come and make an 'o cum halp me' topic. Which has been less and less recently, but still. Is it really that hard to look into the folder labeled "doc" or whatever before you wonder why your crap isn't working?

Still here? Seriously, go do something other than read this. Wanna stay? Well, the last thing I have to say is that the quote you're all picking on is completely out of context. If I were to respond to everything with that much hostility, fine, I'd say you have a point. I knee-jerked because the person I was responding to had decided to snap at a mostly civil response (a reply about how his idea wouldn't work, but civil nonetheless).

Here's the thread, if you don't trust me.

The thread is about a user-created database. He said that we would send all the information to be organized by him.

We tried this before. It got shot down for the same reasons I'm about to spew in your general direction right now.

"People can't be assed to give you a new patch every time there's an update"

"We don't trust you to organize this" (Yes, that is intended to be offensive, but tbh I don't trust myself to do this either so I have no reason to have faith in you)

"You're going to get a grand total of nothing because we're too lazy to come up with a blurb"

And then we get into the fact that you say "no in-progress ones" which leaves you with a number that I can count on my two hands.

Unless you count the various one-off short hacks in which case I need the toes on my left foot as well.

also, before anyone comes in with some BS about how the japanese hacks need saving as well I think they have it pretty well under control and it's not our concern

EDIT: Yep, I'm not crazy, we did try this. And it died.

EDIT2: Mind you, I'm not saying that this is a bad idea. If you want to go find all the hacks and write it up etc. yourself, all power to you. But on the other hand, don't expect us to come to you to archive this. If anything, a wiki of this shit would be best.

to which he replies

... wow you're rude. did you miss the whole " i'm new here and i'll need help" part? this'll bea joint project. you make it sound unnecessarily hard. all you have to is post any patch you have to mediafire, or any place that still works, then post the link here. simple. if you dont want to help, no ones forcing you.

That is what ticks me off. If someone here shows up with the attitude "i'm new here halp", that shows me that they, instead of working at getting respect from the community, would rather just flounder about under the "new" label and get us to acclimate him to our group. And then there's the whole bit where he completely disregards everything I said except to mark it off because "i'm rude". I love how Integ does the same shit all the fucking time and gets no flak for it whatsoever.

So back to the original question.

Am I a horrible person? Probably. Do I care? No.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Camtech

[Lord Raven]

Truth be told, I could not honestly give a shit if people get mad at me because I said something insulting. Without even getting into the entire "the internet is anonymous" shitstorm, it's like that old saying - "sticks and stones may break my bones and words will never hurt me". Are my words so offending, so piercing to your soul that you are emotionally affected? Are my words truly more hurtful than any street thug's? Whether or not that makes it better, if I'm so insulting that you are forced to leave to avoid me than maybe you're better off. There are gonna be assholes in the world, and more than a few people would tell you that I am one of them (I agree, at times). If you can't accept that what I say is no worse than what you'd find in any community sooner or later in life, stop reading. Stop wasting your time on these paragraphs and go do something useful.

Words can be offending, and I don't think you're in any right to judge how someone is to react to your post or not.

Furthermore, "there are going to be assholes in the world" is not an excuse for any of your language. Once again, you are 14 and you still have no clue what the world is like; I don't understand why, picking between a decent person and a complete asshole, you'd choose to be an asshole. Just because everyone else is an asshole doesn't make you so special that you can use that (shitty) excuse to get away with being one.

And being a decent person doesn't consist of being all sugar and rainbows, which you seem to fail at understanding as a whole.

Still here? Fine. Contrary to popular belief, I am not initially hostile to new people. I will shout type inflammatory things at anybody whom I feel does not deserve a drawn-out response. I don't ask for much. A lack of grammar pisses me off, firstly, but I will overlook that if the problem is legitimate. All I ask is that a person actually attempts to learn before they come and make an 'o cum halp me' topic. Which has been less and less recently, but still. Is it really that hard to look into the folder labeled "doc" or whatever before you wonder why your crap isn't working?

You say "why should people leave the forum because of me being an asshole," to which I respond "why do you feel the need to reply to people by being an asshole?" A simple prod saying "Just read this document here, it should answer everything. Try looking things up for yourself a little bit more before asking for help" or whatever, instead of being a complete asshole, would fix it.

Further expanding on that, you seem to trivialize the feelings of people listening to words on the internet, but somehow you are affected by people lacking grammar and asking for help before reading certain documents. Enough to make you act inflammatory and lose your shit over it. I don't understand the mentality behind this

Still here? Seriously, go do something other than read this. Wanna stay? Well, the last thing I have to say is that the quote you're all picking on is completely out of context. If I were to respond to everything with that much hostility, fine, I'd say you have a point. I knee-jerked because the person I was responding to had decided to snap at a mostly civil response (a reply about how his idea wouldn't work, but civil nonetheless).

That was a knee-jerk? What the hell?

That is what ticks me off. If someone here shows up with the attitude "i'm new here halp", that shows me that they, instead of working at getting respect from the community, would rather just flounder about under the "new" label and get us to acclimate him to our group. And then there's the whole bit where he completely disregards everything I said except to mark it off because "i'm rude". I love how Integ does the same shit all the fucking time and gets no flak for it whatsoever.

I didn't just aim it at you, Cam. I aimed it at everybody; I would rather not list names because the example was right there waiting for me to reply too.

Furthermore, he replied *once*. Just once. And you knee-jerked an overall pretty shitty reply; you more or less made a mountain out of an anthill. If he refused to listen, I see no reason for you to try to make him listen; he simply isn't going to listen, if that's truly the case. If he was more open to suggestions, then maybe a bit more sternness (remember: sternness, not hostility; there's a large difference) was the key and bringing them to your level so they can understand what you were getting at. You may have felt your reply was justified, but it's clear you lack patience considering that was only your second post in response to him.

Furthermore, I don't think he tried to "hide" behind it, because that would imply some degree of manipulation is involved; I'm pretty sure he was genuinely just new and didnt know that people weren't *that* willing to help a total stranger here. On top of how ROM Hacking probably isn't as easy a thing as he thought it'd be, which is not a hard trap to fall into. In other words, I doubt everyone has the time or patience to lurk (I sure as hell don't), how the hell was he supposed to know he was being reasonable or not?

So back to the original question.

Am I a horrible person? Probably. Do I care? No.

I'm not sure why one would be indifferent to whether or not they're a horrible person. But then I remember you're 14 and have no clue what you're talking about. No, seriously, I say this repeatedly because it's true. Edited February 25, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[Tino]

Don't say "just die in a hole" >_> Maybe I take comments like that a bit too seriously but I think you had good thing going and saying that just kinda ruined it.

Well that was mainly the point, to come off harsh against the people who were doing it to new people. But I'll censor it out

Am I a terrible person? Maybe I am.

I wasn't even going to respond but I feel like I may as well fail at defending myself because I have nothing better to do than argue over the internet.

I couldn't care less whether you are a horrible person. You can be a horrible person if you desire to, for some reason, but that doesn't mean you should be hostile towards new members. That is I do care about - hostility towards new members in general. Not by one member, not by a specific group of members - no, in general. If you read my previous post, I never used any specific names, and for a good reason, namely that it's a forum-wide problem, not a member-specific problem.

Just wanted to get that straight.

That said, I pretty much agree with what Mercenary Raven said. I do have one more thing to add though:

That is what ticks me off. If someone here shows up with the attitude "i'm new here halp", that shows me that they, instead of working at getting respect from the community, would rather just flounder about under the "new" label and get us to acclimate him to our group. And then there's the whole bit where he completely disregards everything I said except to mark it off because "i'm rude". I love how Integ does the same shit all the fucking time and gets no flak for it whatsoever.

You seem to be under the impression that having been here for a longer time means you have more privileges. You seem to think that having been here for a longer time allows you to decide who you can or cannot take up in 'the group'. That's downright terrible, in my opinion. Just to get this straight though, that's what it seems like. I'm not sure if that's really the way you think.

That's really a pretty big problem in general, actually. Of course I have been in lurking mode for a long time, and have had plenty of periods where I didn't even log in for weeks. I only just really came back a couple of days ago, so maybe I'm not fully up to date with what's been happening here lately. However, I think it's fairly reasonable to say that, if there is in fact 'a group' that you have to earn your way in to, my respect for this forum has dropped significantly.

A forum like this should be open to new members. The community should welcome them, try to make them feel at home. If those new members do something unusual that 'the group' wouldn't never have done, how is that their problem? They're new, they don't know any better. Rather than shooting them down, tell them how things go around these forums. Or perhaps even better yet, let them be themselves. People will eventually adapt anyway to the general atmosphere around the forum. The ones who don't like this atmosphere will leave - that is fine. However, new members leaving because they immediately get shot down because they do something unusual is downright disgusting. Once again, the people who do this get very little respect from me.

To continue on to the 'earning respect' aspect of this issue, it's just ridiculous. Put yourself in the position of a new member. In fact, put yourself in the position you have already been in at some point. Everybody has been a new and unknown member at some point. And at such a point, unless you were a troll, you would like to receive a warm welcome from the already active members. And now that other people are in the position you were in, you just start bashing down on them. I can't say it often enough: disgusting.

I initially came back because I wanted to come back, because I remembered a nice and welcoming community. Apparently this isn't the case as much anymore, and frankly I find that to be quite saddening.

That is all.

[CrashGordon94]

Honestly I think this is something that the moderators can actually work towards fixing, personally. I don't mean to sound like a minimod but this incivil behaviour towards new members would seem to be pretty blatantly against the forum's rules, so it would make sense to start giving out some warns for this behaviour. If you were to ask me, I'd actually suggest started fairly low, with verbals and such since this seems to be a bit of a habit for them and habits can be hard to break.

[Cain Magnus]

Honestly I think this is something that the moderators can actually work towards fixing, personally. I don't mean to sound like a minimod but this incivil behaviour towards new members would seem to be pretty blatantly against the forum's rules, so it would make sense to start giving out some warns for this behaviour. If you were to ask me, I'd actually suggest started fairly low, with verbals and such since this seems to be a bit of a habit for them and habits can be hard to break.

Actually, I support this idea. Even though I haven't been a victim of any new member bashing here, I'll admit that I've seen certain situations unfold that could have been handled better from the people doing the bashing. Being mean as such without a plausible reason is just wrong.

I'm feeling myself getting way more accustomed to this site as the days go by than I stated in my last post in this thread. It's now one of my top favorite places to visit and be a part of. I think it could benefit a lot from rule enforcements on disrespect towards new members, or anyone else in general who feels attacked.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Magnus Blade

[Tangerine]

I initially came back because I wanted to come back, because I remembered a nice and welcoming community. Apparently this isn't the case as much anymore, and frankly I find that to be quite saddening.

I think it's being blown out of proportion and has resulted in a bit of hysteria on both sides here. I've never seen anyone being purposely mean towards new members, but I have seen people reacting to innocent situations quite poorly - regardless of whether the member is new or not.

Still here? Fine. Contrary to popular belief, I am not initially hostile to new people. I will shout type inflammatory things at anybody whom I feel does not deserve a drawn-out response. I don't ask for much. A lack of grammar pisses me off, firstly, but I will overlook that if the problem is legitimate. All I ask is that a person actually attempts to learn before they come and make an 'o cum halp me' topic. Which has been less and less recently, but still. Is it really that hard to look into the folder labeled "doc" or whatever before you wonder why your crap isn't working?

In that case your best response is to not respond at all. If you are in a position where you feel your only option is to insult someone, what purpose is there in your post? To "teach" them? A learning environment should never be hostile, and knowledge cannot be cultivated in one that way, especially not if your seeds are children. So to speak .

But you're not as bad as you'd like to make yourself out to be. I get the feeling that you're acting more like you "want" to be or feel is "cool" or "impressive" than what you actually are. And you know, you're probably gonna say that statement is stupid and laugh at me or whatever, but there you go. You are a pretty sweet kid when you want to be, I don't see where this stuff comes from .

[eclipse]

The problem, I think, is perception. Some people can take harsh criticism; others, not so much. I think the problem is that the criticism level is set to such that if the recipient saw that, they wouldn't mind. I think some empathy and judgment should be used. You might be able to take it, but what about the recipient? If your opinion of yourself is THAT HIGH, surely thinking about how well the other person will take your criticism shouldn't be that hard. As the one giving advice, it your responsibility to make it such that the other person doesn't feel like leaving outright. Now, if you give out something that's constructive, neutral, and reasonable, and the other person throws a hissy fit, THEN it's their fault. I've seen exactly one example of this ever.

[Raven]

The problem, I think, is perception. Some people can take harsh criticism; others, not so much. I think the problem is that the criticism level is set to such that if the recipient saw that, they wouldn't mind. I think some empathy and judgment should be used. You might be able to take it, but what about the recipient? If your opinion of yourself is THAT HIGH, surely thinking about how well the other person will take your criticism shouldn't be that hard. As the one giving advice, it your responsibility to make it such that the other person doesn't feel like leaving outright. Now, if you give out something that's constructive, neutral, and reasonable, and the other person throws a hissy fit, THEN it's their fault. I've seen exactly one example of this ever.

Did it involve someone in the Written Works section?

That shit was simultaneously insane and hilarious.

[I.M. Gei]

the sad thing is

there's a million more people just like (if not outright worse) than her in deviantART and FF.net and I'm not even mentioning the unholy lovechild of the two

[eclipse]

Yeah. That chick in Written Works. I think I was being neutral. . .

[Tangerine]

Which "chick" are we talking about 0_o?

[Raven]

I shall try to find it. You may already have seen it, but maybe you forgot.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Raven

[Freohr Datia]

Oh my are you talking about anacybelle or however she spelled that?

[Raven]

Yeah start here

then here

then here

And any other topics around there involving this girl.

[eclipse]

Yeah. She who basically told me that I didn't know what I was talking about, and that I shouldn't give her criticism since I didn't care for romance.

[Raven]

Indeed. I don't believe you had any intention of making her feel bad, but her reactions to your sound advice was laughable.

New members should be given some sort of chance, but some people pull on that elasticity so hard and for so long it snaps. Ignoring them in that situation is quite hard when you're the one being told you're wrong, when all you're doing is trying to help.

Kudos for keeping your cool, eclipse.

[Sunwoo]

Haha ... I may still be relatively new to SF, compared to most people here, but I've been a member of FF.net for over ten years. I've been on all sorts of forums and I've argued with all sorts of people. It doesn't hurt that I've had to learn to debate and be persuasive in academics as well.

There are people like me, who are not new to the Internet and forums in general. But a lot of the people who are more ... "foolish", in some of the things they say sometimes tend to be new to the Internet or forums as a whole. Then there are people who are not new to forums, but are new to a certain community and are still adjusting to how the community thinks. I think that there are times when people on here are a bit too harsh to newcomers, if a newcomer happens to say something a tad unwise. There are, after all, ways to respond that do not come off as being so harsh or condescending.

I'm not quite sure what the average age of SF's community is, and I'm not sure how much older (or younger) I am relative to most of the people I talk to. But I think age has something to do with it. Unless a person just refuses to mature, people who are older tend to (not always, but usually) be a bit more ... tolerant? Not nearly as harsh? I've had several years of practice, on both the Internet and real life, to watch how I speak and tell people that they're either doing something wrong or really getting on my nerves. I've learned to debate civilly. Stuff like that takes time.

One thing I will say, though, is that there are a lot of people (not just newcomers) who are quite sensitive. Not everyone can handle criticism well, and it is unfortunate when people flip out over the littlest things. I think the Internet is a great place to practice toughening yourself up to insults. It's easier to brush off harsh words from an anonymous stranger than from a person who is face to face with you. But the Internet can also be a great place for practicing self-control. You can type out your anger, let it cool off, and edit your words so that you still get the point across than you're angry but do it in a more civil way.

By the way, FF.net is hilarious. The FE section isn't too bad when it comes to arguments, but check out stuff like AtLA. People go nuts there. XD

Edit: I looked up this Anacybele person whom eclipse mentioned a few posts above me. I ... know her. From FF.net. We talked about Ike, Elincia, and Geoffrey in a pairing thread. ._.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Boron