Popo Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) That depends. I'm not fluent in jap at all, but from what I know "おじさま・・・" is bit more personal/intimate than "Lord XXX" i think If I interpreted what Balcerzak said correctly, then yes, there is a bit of a personal meaning behind it. But if there's no direct translation that makes appropriate sense, then I don't see why it's wrong to fill it in with something that would make sense to an English audience. :o This is turning into the "shit" argument. XD Edited March 19, 2012 by Popo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I personally think that "Uncle" fits really well (especially considering that there's a decent chance that he is her uncle anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If I interpreted what Balcerzak said correctly, then yes, there is a bit of a personal meaning behind it. But if there's no direct translation that makes appropriate sense, then I don't see why it's wrong to fill it in with something that would make sense to an English audience. :o This is turning into the "shit" argument. XD Well, there is. Uncle. It's just that it didn't jive with you. thus the issue with subjective localization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well, there is. Uncle. It's just that it didn't jive with you. thus the issue with subjective localization Then I'll make an executive decision sometime in the future and get back to you guys. XD Does anything else need to be reexamined regarding Chapter 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I guess we differ on the second point. I've always seen it practiced in Asian languages, as you said, but far less in the west. :/ Let me ask you then: when you were a kid, and (if) when your father's good friend came over, what did you address him as? Just by his first name? Or did you use "mister?" Edited March 19, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) This is turning into the "shit" argument. XD And thus, any change in script discussion thread will almost always result in the evolution from the Alan 'shit'-storm to "FE12 Translation thread" level. Then I'll make an executive decision sometime in the future and get back to you guys. XD Does anything else need to be reexamined regarding Chapter 1? lol. I mean YOU DID start the project. Personally I'd go with Uncle Eliwood, but Lilina's B support with Marcus makes me... cringe a little. If you're putting me "officially" on the team keep me out of the translation discussion and just save me for the hacking questions, please. :P It's easier on me that way. It's bad enough that TheEnd accuses me of NTR because I am still so obsessively in love with like Ninian and yet ship Ninian x Eliwood hard. Edited March 19, 2012 by shadowofchaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If I may offer a suggestion ... "Uncle" Eliwood sounds perhaps a bit ... too informal for me. FE7's translation wasn't perfect, no doubt, but regardless of closeness the marquesses are always referred to as "Marquess [Territory]" or "Lord [Name]". Marquess Santaruz is apparently close with Eliwood and his father, but Eliwood calls him "Lord Helman" instead of Uncle Helman or something indicating closeness. Having Lilina call Eliwood "Lord Eliwood" seems fine to me. I mean ... she's at his castle, without her father, and is close friends with Eliwood's son. That ... kind of indicates closeness to me anyway. Or maybe even adding in something like, "I'd never forgive myself if anything happened to you, Lilina," could help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 10 bucks says that the Japanese script doesn't have Eliwood address any of the other Marquesses by "おじさま." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) If I may offer a suggestion ... "Uncle" Eliwood sounds perhaps a bit ... too informal for me. FE7's translation wasn't perfect, no doubt, but regardless of closeness the marquesses are always referred to as "Marquess [Territory]" or "Lord [Name]". Marquess Santaruz is apparently close with Eliwood and his father, but Eliwood calls him "Lord Helman" instead of Uncle Helman or something indicating closeness. Having Lilina call Eliwood "Lord Eliwood" seems fine to me. I mean ... she's at his castle, without her father, and is close friends with Eliwood's son. That ... kind of indicates closeness to me anyway. Or maybe even adding in something like, "I'd never forgive myself if anything happened to you, Lilina," could help as well. I agree. Again, I know that you guys want me to be careful of picking up bad habits from FE7, but the above example pretty much sums up my point. If Lilina wanted to be formal, she could say Marquess Pherae/Your Grace/Etc. Instead she uses Eliwood's first name and includes "lord" to show esteem. I think it's a good blend of informality and respectfulness. Also, how close do you guys actually think they are? Haven't Hector and Eliwood not seen each other in years? I doubt that they've been foisting their children off on each other long enough for Lilina to be super close to Eliwood. At best, she's probably visited a few times, but I don't think they're that close. My understanding is that she's closest to Roy, and that their connection has developed primarily through school, and not so much from visiting each other. Edited March 19, 2012 by Popo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Roy's been in Ostia for... how long studying under Cecilia? and his A support with her implies that she was still training him before he was called away. Eliwood would often see Hector whenever the League held a meeting so I'm sure they are still very formal, but they also both have to rule. Then again the implication in FE7's ending is that Roy first met Lilina when they were 5, so that's 5 years where they never met up. I would say Eliwood makes more trips to see Hector that seeing the family, simply from the strain of ruling Pherae. Roy and Lilina at least have known one another for a long time, I say 'Lord Eliwood' works very well, simply because she refers to him as such later on in her supports. And Roy shows the same degree of respect towards Hector. It's hard to imagine Roy (who according to Lilina was a bit immature before the war) being the one who shows more respect to the lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I agree with Popo and Onmi. There are different ways to show formality towards Eliwood, such as what Popo suggested, and I suppose I just can't imagine Lilina calling Eliwood "uncle". Not even if he really was her uncle. Lilina and Eliwood can never be related by blood, and Eliwood is the marquess of Pherae. Even if she and he were related through her mother and his wife, I still think Lilina (being Lilina) would call him "Lord Eliwood." Also, in FE7, Marquess Santaruz says that since he has no children of his own Eliwood is like his own son. Eliwood had to have been close to him in order for Marquess Santaruz to consider him as such ... and yet, Eliwood still refers to him as Lord Helman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaggle of Geese Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This NEEDS to be said: The "Lycian Alliance" should be translated as "Lycian League" instead. As for the army, that's your call. By the way, I would prefer, in addition to this patch, to have a separate patch that is just a translation, without any blinking sprites or other additions that weren't in the original game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Also, in FE7, Marquess Santaruz says that since he has no children of his own Eliwood is like his own son. Eliwood had to have been close to him in order for Marquess Santaruz to consider him as such ... and yet, Eliwood still refers to him as Lord Helman. ok point out to me where in the japanese fe7 script eliwood refers to marquess santaruz as "おじさま" please seriously guys, this is not difficult. the japanese fe6 script is a very clear indication. it's not a matter of what you "feel" or some other abstract notion about translation of a language that you guys probably don't even understand. dondon putting his foot down Edited March 19, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 ok point out to me where in the japanese fe7 script eliwood refers to marquess santaruz as "おじさま" please seriously guys, this is not difficult. the japanese fe6 script is a very clear indication. it's not a matter of what you "feel" or some other abstract notion about translation of a language that you guys probably don't even understand. dondon putting his foot down I don't care what the literal translation is. That's what we have now, it sounds weird in English, the end. The whole point of this is to adjust the script, not to reexamine the source material and start all over. I'm not going to argue over one word in a massive script. Popo putting her foot down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hey, I'm just offering a suggestion, if Popo doesn't want to take it then she doesn't have to. If you want me to point something out in a Japanese script, then direct me towards one, dondon, as I am busy with schoolwork and don't have time to be searching for one, nor can I read Japanese anyway so it'd take me forever to look for those exact characters in that exact order. I have also admitted that the FE7 translation isn't perfect, but for us English-only speakers that is all we have to work with. Japanese and English don't translate perfectly, that much is a given. You have to work with what you've got. No need to come off so elitist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I love how this whole topic was started because people got butthurt over Alan saying shit. Of course if there's one thing I find more offensive than a script inconsistent with other GBA games or swearing in general, it's people pretending to be offended (which is the case since these people say shit and fuck all the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't care what the literal translation is. That's what we have now, it sounds weird in English, the end. The whole point of this is to adjust the script, not to reexamine the source material and start all over. I'm not going to argue over one word in a massive script. Popo putting her foot down *Looks at other posts after that* This is turning into the "shit" argument. XD And thus, any change in script discussion thread will almost always result in the evolution from the Alan 'shit'-storm to "FE12 Translation thread" level. Did I tell you, or did I tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I love how this whole topic was started because people got butthurt over Alan saying shit. Of course if there's one thing I find more offensive than a script inconsistent with other GBA games or swearing in general, it's people pretending to be offended (which is the case since these people say shit and fuck all the time). Read the first post. I started this topic because I love the game and want to iron out the flaws, not because I'm upset over one word. :/ If you're not going to offer anything helpful, you can leave. Edited March 20, 2012 by Popo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I don't care what the literal translation is. That's what we have now, it sounds weird in English, the end. weird like all of the other suggestions right oh wait If you want me to point something out in a Japanese script, then direct me towards one, dondon, as I am busy with schoolwork and don't have time to be searching for one, nor can I read Japanese anyway so it'd take me forever to look for those exact characters in that exact order. oooh life card also burden of proof is on you, don't push it on me Japanese and English don't translate perfectly, that much is a given. You have to work with what you've got. No need to come off so elitist. who do you trust more, a doctor or a medicine man? or is the doctor too "elitist?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) weird like all of the other suggestions right oh wait oooh life card also burden of proof is on you, don't push it on me oh god it's the FE12 thread all over again. dondon go make your own FE6 patch. Shoo shoo. seriously, you people spend hours arguing 'oh boohoo it should follow the japanese directly or it's not going to be good' instead of, Iunno, making your own patch. with the time you take to argue these pointless points, you could probably get 5 or so chapters done. so off with you, have a good time with that. who do you trust more, a doctor or a medicine man? or is the doctor too "elitist?" the doctor, but I don't see how that matters when Boron's right. Japanese and English do not translate perfectly. countless dubs of anime, and countless translations of manga are pretty much evidence of this. the dialogue gets changed around to fit. that's what Popo'n'pals are trying to do. AND WAIT BEFORE YOU SAY THEY'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT refer to my previous point and make your own patch. Seph putting his foot down. also I am now going to refer to you as donny. Edited March 20, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 dondon go make your own FE6 patch. Shoo shoo. no. gently fuck off and fellate yourself. seriously, you people spend hours arguing 'oh boohoo it should follow the japanese directly or it's not going to be good' instead of, Iunno, making your own patch. with the time you take to argue these pointless points, you could probably get 5 or so chapters done. so off with you, have a good time with that. see i don't know where you get this idea that i have some personal investment in this fe6 patch when people are wrong, they need to be corrected and not make the same mistakes again. it's as simple as that. the doctor, but I don't see how that matters when Boron's right. Japanese and English do not translate perfectly. countless dubs of anime, and countless translations of manga are pretty much evidence of this. the dialogue gets changed around to fit. that's what Popo'n'pals are trying to do. uncle [uhng-kuhl] Example Sentences Origin un·cle [uhng-kuhl] Show IPA noun 3. a familiar title or term of address for any elderly man. 小父（おじ） (used with suffix -san or -sama) endearing term for unrelated older man; (with suffix -san) term used by a child to address unrelated adult male do you know what i hear it's that sound of you getting destroyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) no. gently fuck off and fellate yourself. see i don't know where you get this idea that i have some personal investment in this fe6 patch when people are wrong, they need to be corrected and not make the same mistakes again. it's as simple as that. uncle [uhng-kuhl] Example Sentences Origin un·cle [uhng-kuhl] Show IPA noun 3. a familiar title or term of address for any elderly man. 小父（おじ） (used with suffix -san or -sama) endearing term for unrelated older man; (with suffix -san) term used by a child to address unrelated adult male do you know what i hear it's that sound of you getting destroyed I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over all the weeaboo you keep spewing :U could you speak in english, the language this patch is going to be in? no really all I see if you saying that you're being an ass for the sake of it, and then comparing a nice, well placed english word, 'uncle', with some moon that no one really cares about except you and your elitist buds. and yes I say elitist because you always bring the japanese text up like it's somehow automatically better than the english text? i'm sorry but we speak english here. 英語. so when we translate something we translate it into english. and we make it work. if you don't like that well lololololol Edited March 20, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 doesn't the term weeaboo imply he's white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) just to reiterate (since this is actually on-topic and deserves to be separate from the above debacle): uncle [uhng-kuhl] Example Sentences Origin un·cle [uhng-kuhl] Show IPA noun 3. a familiar title or term of address for any elderly man. 小父（おじ） (used with suffix -san or -sama) endearing term for unrelated older man; (with suffix -san) term used by a child to address unrelated adult male popo, you wanted evidence that "uncle" is used the same way in both languages - here it is. Edited March 20, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 doesn't the term weeaboo imply he's white You must be thinking of "Wapanese." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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