Common Misconceptions

[Gaggle of Geese]

Hey all. This thread was made to advise beginners and correct common mistakes. Since I (and other) newbies often make these kinds of errors, I thought it would be helpful to have them all in one place.

The current list:

1. Don't use all your units equally. Choose a group of about 8-10 and use them consistently. Otherwise, your units won't get enough experience.

EXCEPTION 1: In FE4, you are given the ability to field all your units. You can do this--your units will still turn out okay.

EXCEPTION 2: In FE5, due to the fatigue system and minimum chapter requirements, you will end up making use of more units than you otherwise would. 15-20 is normal for this

game.

2. You do NOT have to wait until level 20 to promote! You can do so earlier, even as low as level 10.

Promotion guidelines for various games:

FE1: You can promote as early as you like. Promotion does not affect unit experience gain, all stats cap at 20, and promotion will automatically increase a unit's stats to the new class minimums.

FE2: You can promote as early as you like. Once again, stats get bumped up to the new class minimums.

FE3: See FE1.

FE4: Promote as soon as possible! Units can only promote once they reach level 20, and when they do, their level stays the same--the maximum level in this game is 30.

FE5: Stats cap at 20 again. Due to the difficulty, it's generally best to promote ASAP. You'll notice you get a lot of Knight Crests early on.

FE6-12: A lot of people will say to wait until level 20 to promote. This is not true! You can promote as early as level 10 without experiencing major difficulties. However, this varies based on the character itself and your experience with the game. Around level 15 is usually safest.

3. On this note, a unit's 20/20 stats are not a reliable indicator of the units overall performance.

4. Just because a unit comes promoted doesn't mean it sucks.

[spoiler=Jeigan Characters (this is important!)]"Jeigan" characters are designed to be used as a sort of "crutch" in the early game. They are named for the first unit of their kind, Jeigan (or Jagen in the US). They're best used to weaken units so that your others can get the kill (and the EXP. Don't overuse these characters, and drop them in the mid-game.

Jeigans can be identified by a number of things:

1. They join on or around the first chapter.

2. They're promoted.

3. They're much stronger than your other units.

4. They're level-ups are consistently far below average.

5. Their weapons are better than your other units'.

6. They are often Paladins.

Notable Jeigans include Jeigan/Jagen, Marcus, and Alan/Arran.

Oifeys: Every now and then, a character that seems like a Jeigan is actually good. These units are sometimes called "Oifeys," after a character from the series's fourth installment. Oifeys are similar to Jeigans, but they actually improve enough to become good units by the end of the game.

Notable Oifeys are Oifey (obviously), Seth, and Titania.

Just because they're good doesn't mean you should overuse them, especially in the early game! Use them like Jeigans early on, then use them normally once the other units have caught up.

5. "Normal Mode" doesn't necessarily mean normal mode, particularly in FE10. In the US, "Easy Mode" is the Japanese "Normal Mode," and "Normal Mode" is the Japanese "Hard Mode." If you're a casual player, play on Easy. You won't be mocked for this... hopefully.

6. Don't be afraid to use stuff up, especially healing items. Otherwise, you'll end up with a convoy full of powerful items that you never used.

(This happens in a lot of RPGs, actually. I like to call it "ether syndrome.")

7. Just because a unit turned out good/bad for you doesn't mean it will or has turned out bad for everybody. Do not use your experience to judge a character's "worth." (Of course, if the character is turning out good or bad, by all means use or bench them accordingly!)

8. By the same token, don't believe everything people say about a unit. Everyone has their own opinions.

9. Double-attacking is determined by speed--if a unit is particularly faster than another, that unit will get an additional attack. It works differently depending on the game. If you don't understand the underlying mathematics, make sure the combat window is not set to "detailed!"

10. On the topic of double-attacking, steel weapons are not always better than iron. They are more powerful, yes, but they also weigh more, slowing units down, especially if they have low constitution (or build or strength, depending on the game). This can prevent them from doubling other units, or worse, make them get doubled. Decide based on the unit.

11. Even though it may look like a character is getting a bad level-up, this may not be the case. 1-3 stats is pretty normal. When in doubt, check out their average stats online to see how they stack up.

12. Unless you're experienced with the game, avoid "Est" type units. These units are ones that start at a low level (with low stats), but have exceptionally high growth rates. The growths may look nice, but it's can be quite a pain to train them.

13. Don't be afraid to use a unit you might drop later.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Flock of Geese

[VincentASM]

Sounds like it could be fun. I've written about a few misconceptions before, but I'm afraid I don't have any ideas right now. Maybe something about not ignoring all promoted units or Jagens?

Actually, I think it would be nice to point out that Normal mode isn't always the mode you think it is. See the last section of this page for instance. FE10's Normal mode is actually an Easy mode, but even more confusingly they renamed the modes in the English version so the Japanese Normal mode is now called Easy mode, which fits with what it was designed to be. But now the Japanese Hard mode is our Normal mode...

[CT075]

Never assume that a unit's 20/20 stats showcase their performance. Else you will be ridiculed and mocked to all degrees of stuff.

[Anouleth]

12-15 is a little high, I prefer 8-10, 12 at the extreme. You can't even deploy 15 characters in many Fire Emblems.

[Quintessence]

I was going to say that^^.

Be clear on who do you want to use, don't use tons of characters because they are cool. It's better to have a small strong army than a vast army full of lulzy units, like the enemies in most FE games. As a consequence, do tons of playthroughs to gain more EXP and make by yourself conclusions as well as considering new strategies, etc.

The idea of a newbie is to gain bases and construct his/her own path *to dawn XD*

[Baldrick]

Don't be afraid to use stuff up, especially healing items.

"But what if we need it later?"

"I'm bleeding to death NOW!"

[Gaggle of Geese]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I've modified the original post with the tips everyone's given.

[General Banzai]

Most of these are more like "common misconceptions made by people at least somewhat good at the game".

Telling a beginner to use Dagda all game is not doing them any favors.

A proper guide would not say "Macrus es #1 huehuehue" but should explain specifically how these units should be used in conjunction with your weaker units so that beginners don't have shit endgames.

Giving a beginner proper Jagen advice would be "Use the Jagen sometimes but try to give your weaker guys most of the kills. Most Jagens should be dropped around midgame. Some exceptional Jagens, such as Seth and Titania, can be used the whole game--but still don't abuse them early game or you'll have to rely on them at the endgame."

Remember that much of the backlash against Marcus in the early days of FE in America came because people used him too much and weren't good enough at the game to rely on him like a crutch by the end of the game when they had few other good units to compensate. The hatred came from their personal experience of being screwed over by him, not by an inherent fear of prepromoted units. Seth is the same way. People say "lol Seth can even solo endgame!" but he can't if you're a beginner, and advising a beginner to do so is a surefire way to make them ragequit the game.

[Dark Sage]

Telling a beginner to use Dagda all game is not doing them any favors.

why?

[Thor Odinson]

I dunno man, my first time playing FE8 was basically everyone prepromotes

And Seth saved my entire team from obliteration

[Celice]

why?

The rest of the post seems to explicate it pretty well :/

My only suggestion for avoiding a misconception is to never assume what people say about units is true, both good and bad.

[Onmi]

why?

because understanding the proper applications of a unit is not the same as using a unit?

Also PEMN yet PEME

Personal Experience Means Nothing (Just because a unit turned out alright for you, does not, statistically make them a good unit) yet Personal Experience Means Everything (If you have a unit who's been blessed that the tier lists say suck, or a cursed unit that's supposed to be top tier, use common sense.)

Edited March 15, 2012 by Onmi

[BrightBow]

Well, it's not a misconception but I think it might be useful to tell them how double attacking is determined, since the games never do. For an actual mistake I made in that regard: "Don't set the pre-battle window to "detailed" or it won't display any double attacks."

Edited March 15, 2012 by BrightBow

[Renall]

A unit gaining only a few stats per level is normal. It may not look like progress is being made but it is. If you're worried a unit is underperfoming, go check their "Average Stats" on the SF pages. Chances are they're actually right where they're supposed to be. A lot of people see eight stats and "random growths" and think gaining 1-3 stats at a level-up is bad. Actually, that's usually a pretty normal level.

[Biabarr]

I would comment that focusing on 8-10 units in FE5 will mean fatigue will get you fast (made this mistake the first time I played it...never again). For that game it should be 15-20.

Also, maybe tell them to avoid Est archetype units? A lot of beginners I know only look at the growths and expect most Ests to be amazing without taking into consideration the annoyance it is to raise them (especially with Nino).

[Loki Laufeyson]

2. You do NOT have to wait until level 20 to promote! You can do so earlier, even as low as level 10.

Well no you dont. But ive seen very bad things happen to units who promote TOO early. So i suggest middle ground. Level 15.

(also number 5...well people still mock those who play anything less than hard mode.)

Here's one: (since Banzai already covered Jeigans) Prepromote =/= mediocre unit. Just because a guy comes in already promoted and junk, does not mean hes going to be inferior. In ways, he may be superior. I see a lot of prepromote hate still going on even here. (a few random members) and GameFAQs. I mean, those guys really need to update character FAQs. Holy shit.

Another one regarding RD: Pumping a character full of BEXP before they reached caps is not that great of an idea. (this one i learned myself, just recently) Wait until a unit hits some caps and THEN do it. Because of how BEXP works in RD, you are only gonna get three stat ups each time. (and in some cases, the same three stats) So yeah. Or just use the BEXP trick with giving a unit about 99 exp and then have them level with Combat experience. Rinse and repeat.

Also, maybe tell them to avoid Est archetype units? A lot of beginners I know only look at the growths and expect most Ests to be amazing without taking into consideration the annoyance it is to raise them (especially with Nino).

That kinda boils down to personal preference though. I would say "Avoid Est types until you are familiar with the game(s)." Because seasoned players can make Est types work. It takes a lot of patience and whether or not they really want to mess with it.

[The_Purple_Knight]

A unit gaining only a few stats per level is normal. It may not look like progress is being made but it is. If you're worried a unit is underperfoming, go check their "Average Stats" on the SF pages. Chances are they're actually right where they're supposed to be. A lot of people see eight stats and "random growths" and think gaining 1-3 stats at a level-up is bad. Actually, that's usually a pretty normal level.

That use to screw me up alot I was so pissed with how little my characters would gain turns out almost all if them were actually blessed not screwed .

Also the est think really is a game by game basis niño is a bitch in any mode, Miranda in fe5 also sucks outside of elite mode. Est , Sara and zeiss are quite easy to train up . I think alot of the est hate comes from hardmode players which is quite understandable . I can admit I love est with passion but I didn't have the cash or the resources to train her in manic mode of fe12 so difficulty is a huge factor in whether or not an est is worth it . On easy mode go nuts it doesn't really matter.

Edited March 15, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Aethereal]

This is basically just adding onto the 'prepremotes dont suck' notion, but don't be afraid to use units you might drop later. So many people don't deploy or use their best units, and end up making the game a lot harder for themselves in the process. All this to feed a little more experience to bad units; this kind of thing may end up getting those units like half an extra level, at the expense of tons of time and energy. Disclaimer about playing however you want blahblahblah

[dondon151]

Here's one: if you're wondering why you're always running out of weapons, beat the maps faster.

EDIT: As much as I am a dick about LTC play, you'd be surprised at how long you can make a 20-use weapon last.

Edited March 16, 2012 by dondon151

[Baldrick]

Here's one: if you're wondering why you're always running out of weapons, beat the maps faster.

This is incredible advice. I can't believe it.

[Gaggle of Geese]

WOW that's a lot of tips. I've altered the list accordingly, and gave Jeigans their own section. Look it over and argue amongst yourselves. I'll check back later.

[MacLovin]

Also, for fe9/10.

Don't be afraid to use bexp, hoarding will just result in having alot of shit lategame when everyone is a god.

And, don't be afraid to use stat-boosters, and don't be afraid to skip treasure, sometimes its not worth it

[Defeatist Elitist]

I think your section on Jeigans is going too much to the "DON'T USE THEM" side of things. If we're talking about any of the FE's from about 6 onward, especially from 7 to 10 (and only because I am most familiar with these), you really don't need to hold back at all in casual play with your Jeigans. Like, you can pretty heavily rely on Marcus in FE7 and be totally fine for the endgame as a casual player, it's not guaranteed to fuck you up or anything.

Using Marcus won't give you a shit endgame. Most of the anecdotes I've seen about Marcus go like "I was a dumb noob and used Marcus a lot in my first game and let a bunch of other characters die, lol I wonder how I was even able to beat that game, then I went on line and read guids and looked at growth rates and realized how he was soooo bad", which would suggest to me that casual players are completely capable of beating the game with heavy reliance on Jeigan characters. I mean, somebody did an analysis that demonstrated that Jeigans don't even "steal" XP ages ago, and I would argue that that still holds true even in casual play, and the first time I played most Fire Emblem games, I was undoubtedly hurt far more than I was helped by the idea of only using Jeigans to weaken enemies and then dropping them in the mid game than I was helped by it.

tl;dr Jeigans usually make the game significantly easier, it's as simple as that.

[arvilino]

^This, as long as they aren't completley relied on Jeigans like Marcus won't waste much EXP and can make the game more managable if they're used the same way regular units are. In FE7 having Marcus reliably kill certain foes(or even groups of foes) can save you a lot of trouble for the enemy phase and as long as you've got other characters in range the enemies shouldn't target him so you have good control over how many enemies he's fighting each turn.

Oh another thing is the Boss EXP. Since there's a base amount in the GBA games pre-promotes get significantly better EXP(like the equivalent of tens of regular enemies for them) relative to unpromoted units from the bosses, so it can be a good idea for Marcus or Seth to kill the bosses during early game.

Edited March 19, 2012 by arvilino

[Raven]

In regards to useful Jeigans: having Marcus kill the boss in FE7 Hector mode Ch.15 before turn 3 comes helps significantly in regards to not letting the tiny map become overflown with enemy units. The map is then usually cleared of all enemies by turn 5/6.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Raven