Need advice for FE12 Lunatic Reverse

[LeaderR Elliot]

Please mjemirzian stop here... this discussion isn't doing you any good and certainly isn't doing Dondon any harm, some of us still have you in high regard, please >.<

[fatgamecat]

I think if more people sat back, took a look at themselves, and stopped with this "victim complex" bullshit we'd have a lot better discussion on this forum. Alas, I'm probably being idealistic.

You're stuffing a strawman trying to portray me as a victim complex hypocrite with no proof, while ignoring everything I've just said. Your post is exactly what the FE community needs less of - vapid logical fallacies, 0 proof, and rotten attitudes. We'd have a lot better discussion and more contribution if people weren't in fear that they'd get belittled and derided rather than given valid and appropriate criticism based on the conditions of their run.

Please mjemirzian stop here... this discussion isn't doing you any good and certainly isn't doing Dondon any harm, some of us still have you in high regard, please >.<

No, I will not stop telling FE elitists to stop being condescending asses who belittle anyone who doesn't play a game under the exact same conditions as them, among other poor behavior. Not only have their criticisms of my FE12 playthroughs been spiteful and condescending but they've been wrong and baseless. Or that recent speedrun that was just posted - no valid criticism based on the conditions of his run, not even a "congratulations", just lots of obnoxious behavior because he quickloaded for better RNG results. I'm sure plenty of people have made the decision I have that contributing isn't worth the grief of dealing with such people. Edited April 5, 2012 by mjemirzian

[Lord Raven]

Oh look, you're stuffing a strawman trying to portray me as a victim complex hypocrite with no proof, while ignoring everything I've just said. Your post is exactly what the FE community needs less of - vapid logical fallacies, 0 proof, and rotten attitudes.

> dondon makes joke

> mjemirzian goes on long rant as a result of taking joke too seriously

> mjemirzian supposedly doesn't have a victim complex

We'd have a lot better discussion and more contribution if people weren't in fear that they'd get belittled and derided rather than given valid and appropriate criticism based on the conditions of their run.

Chill, it's a video game.

Nobody mentioned your guide either until you brought it up. Womp. Your attitude generally sucks wherever you go, and you act fairly elitist as a whole; if you don't want shit for your guides, maybe you should have a better attitude? I'm ignoring everything you've said simply because you've done much of the same shit you yourself seem to really hate. I'll list some examples now:

Yes, more "optimization" nonsense. That's the other huge problem with the FE elitists: you still wrongly think that there's only One True Way to play through a FE or other tactics game efficiently.

Read: LTC thread, where this is being argued in great detail and how the consensus is there is no One True Way to play FE. You can't generalize us all when this simply isn't true.

Your war on RNG "abuse" smacks of the inability to empathize with others.

> dondon

> war on RNG abuse

lol

but I and most people have this thing called decency.

> smugness

I know this might sound offensive, but it's rather obvious to me that you have some kind of anti-social or related issues driving your mindset of inflexibly rigid gameplay rules, inability to empathize or relate to others, and tone deaf, insulting language.

Hilariously enough, you have the following quote in your posts that makes you look like a hypocrite:

As neutral as possible? How ridiculous. You think "mj is entirely incapable of taking a joke or a jab and thinks that every nay-sayer is out to ruin his reputation." is neutral? You're going around claiming your personal attacks disguised as flimsy psychoanalysis are facts! Yeah, that's really neutral.

If you're going to find this pathetic, why did you do this yourself? >_> You pretty much ask for it with your attitude, sir. You don't see dondon whining and being self-victimizing for all the ad hominem towards him, do you?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Mercenary Raven

[fatgamecat]

> dondon makes joke

> mjemirzian goes on long rant as a result of taking joke too seriously

> mjemirzian supposedly doesn't have a victim complex

More strawmen and logical fallacies in 4chan greentext form. Could you possibly have stuffed a more absurd, distorted, and ridiculous strawman "sequence of events"? Thanks for exposing yourself and saving me the trouble of replying to the rest of your trolling.

[dondon151]

No, I accurately described your behavior towards me and other people trying to contribute to the community.

really, now? i don't act like a jerk towards most users who contribute to the community. certainly not any of my buddies in #feto, certainly not any of the well-respected higher-ups of this site, and realize that even though i bitched about stuff in the FE12 translation thread, i never actively antagonized the translators working on the project. no, i'm only antagonistic towards you because guess what? you're an asshat - and there's plenty of evidence for that right here.

Blanket denials are meaningless. You keep calling my playthroughs "mediocre", which is completely absurd. Either you don't realize how belittling and unfitting that word choice is, or you're doing it deliberately.

a quick perusal of the english dictionary indicated to me that "mediocre" does not necessarily mean "bad." would you have preferred it if i used "average?" "ordinary?" or maybe you would have ignored that sort of diction and claimed that i was trying to take a jab at you in an underhanded manner, anyway. i have no good faith in you when it comes to that.

What criticism? You made two wrong claims, one that it takes heavy RNG to have a high DEF Paladin MU at endgame, and one that I claimed that quickload spamming was "necessary". That's not criticism, it's BS.

i had forgotten about the base stat boosters with regards to the first point (although i don't believe that those are necessary either for a completion of H3'), and you pretty strongly encouraged save scumming to get the best level ups for armor knight MU. i was coming across some trouble in the prologue on H3 with armor knight MU and decided to look at how you did it - oh look, MU's spd is way above average. well, that doesn't help me at all.

As neutral as possible? How ridiculous. You think "mj is entirely incapable of taking a joke or a jab and thinks that every nay-sayer is out to ruin his reputation." is neutral? You're going around claiming your personal attacks disguised as flimsy psychoanalysis are facts! Yeah, that's really neutral.

do you know how to reading comprehension

"just because 98% of the players who play this game won't really care about that sort of optimization" is a concession

"plus the game hadn't been played prior to that point in time" is a concession

the point being that i thought it was okay if your strategies were not super duper amazing

but noooo instead it's "TOO MUCH CRITICISM TAKING GUIDE DOWN"

Edited April 5, 2012 by dondon151

[eclipse]

Here's the quote you're looking for, dondon:

Yes, I suggested restarting P1 and P2 for better growths because they take a minute or less to complete. That's not even quickloading, it's just restarting the chapter entirely, which I think anyone would be hard pressed to call "abuse". I did not call it necessary, just suggested. In my experience, the Lunatic' prologue ends up taking a greater number of turns if you don't have a speed blessed knight MU, because you don't have a strong point character to take damage and weaken with counters. I'm not saying it's impossible. Trying Lunatic' with a Fighter MU was like fighting with a wet paper bag, so I didn't get very far with that choice. Feel free to prove me wrong, since the prologue is the most easily accessed part of Lunatic'.

I am someone. I call resetting for stats "abuse". If I have problems replicating a strategy because some unit of mine decided to not gain (insert stat here), then that means I need to plan around it, not force said unit to grow into my plans.

[fatgamecat]

really, now? i don't act like a jerk towards most users who contribute to the community. certainly not any of my buddies in #feto, certainly not any of the well-respected higher-ups of this site, and realize that even though i bitched about stuff in the FE12 translation thread, i never actively antagonized the translators working on the project. no, i'm only antagonistic towards you because guess what? you're an asshat - and there's plenty of evidence for that right here.

a quick perusal of the english dictionary indicated to me that "mediocre" does not necessarily mean "bad." would you have preferred it if i used "average?" "ordinary?" or maybe you would have ignored that sort of diction and claimed that i was trying to take a jab at you in an underhanded manner, anyway. i have no good faith in you when it comes to that.

i had forgotten about the base stat boosters with regards to the first point (although i don't believe that those are necessary either for a completion of H3'), and you pretty strongly encouraged save scumming to get the best level ups for armor knight MU. i was coming across some trouble in the prologue on H3 with armor knight MU and decided to look at how you did it - oh look, MU's spd is way above average. well, that doesn't help me at all.

do you know how to reading comprehension

"just because 98% of the players who play this game won't really care about that sort of optimization" is a concession

"plus the game hadn't been played prior to that point in time" is a concession

the point being that i thought it was okay if your strategies were not super duper amazing

but noooo instead it's "TOO MUCH CRITICISM TAKING GUIDE DOWN"

Someone just posted a FE12 speedrun and you acted like an ass to them solely because you didn't like what conditions they played under. You can stop your bald faced lying now. I've never disparaged or insulted someone because they played FE in a way I didn't like. When Rainbow Pots came out, I didn't go around to everyone's playthrough that used it and started insulting them like you have. I've never falsely accused people of things they've never said, because I bother to go and look up whether they actually said it. Nor do I repeatedly made wrong or baseless criticisms about someone's playthrough. This is common decency that I and most people follow, and I'm only defending myself. Of course you have your clique where your highly rigid game rules, restricted obsessions, and anti-social behaviors are accepted as normal, but it's still revolting to most people.

You have little to no grasp of perspective or the English language if you think that word is appropriate. The Lunatic playthrough is good given the conditions it was played under. The Lunatic' playthrough is just about the best turn count you can get given the conditions it was played under - in other words, it's nearly perfect. Calling that mediocre can only be a belittling insult. And you've still failed to offer a single valid criticism or even a comparable playthrough to look at. You remain completely oblivious.

It doesn't matter that I took my guide down, does it, because you're just going to keep making up distortions and falsehoods about it. My Lunatic playthrough was with a fighter, not a knight, and I didn't do any reloading for growths on Lunatic like you're falsely accusing me of. It's the Lunatic' playthrough that I used a knight and suggested restarting the first two prologues for speed. You're still refusing to accept the playthrough on its own conditions, rather than complaining that it doesn't conform to yours and trying to trash it as a result. Complaining about restarting two prologues for growth in a single stat while chugging down rainbow pots, growth drops, and using every possible unlocked feature in a Lunatic run is being a huge hypocrite, by the way.

Your "concessions" are meaningless. You make up an imaginary percentage of players and claim that my guide is aimed towards that group of people when it's obviously not. That's an insult, not a concession. And yes the playthrough was written when the game was new, but that doesn't mean it's good or bad, it just means almost all of the strategies were my own. And you just layer onto it with even more insults! "do you know how to reading comprehension". Let's see the words you've managed to butcher thus far: "mediocre", "neutral" and "concession".

And now you're reduced to insulting strawman ALL CAPS trolling. No sane or logical person should give you any credence or respect after exposing your real behavior. I am perfectly capable of my playthroughs being criticized if taken in perspective of the conditions they were played under and given that they aren't wrong or baseless. But again, you've failed to meet any of those conditions, instead you have to invent strawmen and scream in ALL CAPS in a vain attempt to troll.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mjemirzian

[Lord Raven]

More strawmen and logical fallacies in 4chan greentext form. Could you possibly have stuffed a more absurd, distorted, and ridiculous strawman "sequence of events"? Thanks for exposing yourself and saving me the trouble of replying to the rest of your trolling.

Yes I could. But you are doing the same thing are you not? By saying that I am trolling, you in turn are straw manning my argument and distorting my attempt. You're acting like a child and a hypocrite. Dondon was making a joke (more satirical in nature) and you overreacted. Not hard to grasp why I felt the need to do it like that.

Amusingly enough I only did that 3 responses out of like 7 or 8, the rest were legitimate points. I don't understand how pointing why you are being a hypocrite and what exactly bugs me about you is trolling.

[Dark Sage]

I wonder if mjemerizianasaajerlkajfdasf is secretly insecure about his guide. As somebody who's pretty insecure himself, I can say that the behavior regarding the guide is pretty common among such people.

[Paperblade]

I'm still trying to figure out how you get away with using Level 7 units in Chapter 7

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

I'm still trying to figure out how you get away with using Level 7 units in Chapter 7

Well, in the level 7 units' defense, anybody without flying, physic, or rescue probably isn't doing shit on this chapter.

The forest isn't big enough; it should cover the entire map instead of like 80% of it.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[fatgamecat]

>Amusingly enough I only did that 3 responses out of like 7 or 8, the rest were legitimate points.

Once you start trolling and further admit to it, nothing you say will be read or replied to seriously, as it would be a waste of time at best and feeding a troll at worst.

>I wonder if mjemerizianasaajerlkajfdasf is secretly insecure about his guide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

[Lord Raven]

Except I wasn't trolling, I was saying that like 3 of my points were in that format and the rest were legitimate. Are you fucking serious, here? Because I'm sure every single person out there can easily construe *your* points as trolling too, if they so wanted to, considering all the personal attacks you make.

[Dark Sage]

>I wonder if mjemerizianasaajerlkajfdasf is secretly insecure about his guide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Wow. Why are you such a tool? I wasn't making an assertion that you were secretly insecure about your guide, I was simply wondering if you were. But instead, you chose to interpret it as a personal attack, as usual.

[Anouleth]

Someone just posted a FE12 speedrun and you acted like an ass to them solely because you didn't like what conditions they played under.

Actually, dondon acts like an ass to KoT because he doesn't like KoT. In fact, he even admits it:

"you consistently say dumb shit outside of this topic (this is the main reason btw)"

[Aircalipoor]

Currently at chapter 16 and my lvl 13 Sirius has 17 Str and 14 Def instead of the average 20 Str/17 Def. He isn´t blessed in other stats, either. His Skl and Spd are only one above average(22/21). How should I treat him? Should he keep his job as a paladin/DK? Should he change in the sniper/swordmaster class for more speed? Should I drop him

[eclipse]

That depends on who else is on your team, and what you intend on doing with them.

[Aircalipoor]

I apologize for being short of information.

Unit		Class		Lv	Xp	HP	St	Mg	Sk	Sp	Lk	Df	Rs	WLv
Marth		Lord		14      06      34      14  	0  	16      15  	14  	11  	0  	Sword C
MyUnit      	Berserker  	17  	35	60      29	0 	24  	27      22  	24  	0   	Axe A
Catria   	Falcoknight 	9 	21 	46 	23 	3 	26 	26 	24 	19 	9 	Sword E Lance A
Palla    	Dracoknight	7 	20      37  	24 	1 	24 	21 	9 	21 	4 	Lance A Axe E
Caeda    	Dracoknight    	9   	03	36 	22 	1 	26 	23 	25 	19 	6 	Lance A Axe E
Sirius    	Paladin  	13 	05 	40 	17 	1 	22 	21 	11 	14 	7 	Sword B Lance A
Minerva    	Dracoknight 	13 	03 	39      20      1   	16      22  	18  	20      3 	Lance C Axe A
Frey    	Paladin    	7 	60 	46 	22  	1  	24  	23  	16  	23      6  	Sword C Lance A
Mallesia    	Sage    	10 	55  	40      3      24   	9  	25  	25      10      11      Tome D Staff A
Etzel 		Sorcerer 	15 	17  	37   	2 	18 	19 	14 	12  	13 	12 	Tome A Staff A

Feena and Xane are obviously used, too. MU has a B in Lance. I have no downloadable content and no Lunatic Statbooster Shop. I have currently 2x Energy Drop, 2x Angelic Robe, 2x Dracoshield and 2x Speedwings, but I safe them for Marth. I´m really paranoid regarding Medeus.

My playstyle is casual. I recruit every unit and open every chest, if possible. I do use Rescue, but I´m surely not LTCing. Sirius can´t double a thing and is 2HKOed. His damage output is also disappinting. I´m unsure what to do with him.

[LeaderR Elliot]

Man... Marth should be LV 20! What happened there!

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah you really should be training marth more.

Marth needs the full 25 speed to not be doubled by Medeus, and the enemies just get harder. Feed him some kills, if you will. Better to overlevel the guy than under. It's not that hard, between the paid training arena and setting up kills in general.

Go Sniper with Sirius. There really isn't anyone else better to replace him with and Snipers should be easy to keep out of battle. They're just a really nice class to have in 12 regardless of mode. Forge a +4 mt Steel bow if you need to.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[LeaderR Elliot]

Also for chapter 17 you might want to buy in Wi-Fi a Longbow there are 3 Dracos at the initial spot that can only be caught by Dracos or a Longbow...

Im not sure but minerva/sirius would be best as a Sniper 'cause you effectively have good Hauteclare/Gradivus users, I actually ended with 3 Snipers in my run and breaking all 4 longbows...

Also an Angel Robe is generally enough for Marth unless you dont have the Def to take two His woth psychic help.

In Chp 16 you need to... (was thinking on Chp 15), uhg...yeah, two Draco go for the geosphere while... you sandwich yourself between Astram sexy heroes and reinforcements (a Longbow helps)

rI remember myself using a Swordmaster Luke with 4 supports tanking reinforcements... any other comments (colonel M?)

[Thor Odinson]

Does emulator work with wifi? I tried to connect once but it was all weird in japanese and shit so I couldn't even configure it :<

[LeaderR Elliot]

Does emulator work with wifi? I tried to connect once but it was all weird in japanese and shit so I couldn't even configure it :<

IDK why would he be playing on an DS... I have tried it though (on Dsmume) and doesn´t work for me I'm sorry...

[bottlegnomes]

I'm still trying to figure out how you get away with using Level 7 units in Chapter 7

I apologize for being short of information.

Unit		Class		Lv	Xp	HP	St	Mg	Sk	Sp	Lk	Df	Rs	WLv
Marth		Lord		14      06      34      14  	0  	16      15  	14  	11  	0  	Sword C
MyUnit      	Berserker  	17  	35	60      29	0 	24  	27      22  	24  	0   	Axe A
Catria   	Falcoknight 	9 	21 	46 	23 	3 	26 	26 	24 	19 	9 	Sword E Lance A
Palla    	Dracoknight	7 	20      37  	24 	1 	24 	21 	9 	21 	4 	Lance A Axe E
Caeda    	Dracoknight    	9   	03	36 	22 	1 	26 	23 	25 	19 	6 	Lance A Axe E
Sirius    	Paladin  	13 	05 	40 	17 	1 	22 	21 	11 	14 	7 	Sword B Lance A
Minerva    	Dracoknight 	13 	03 	39      20      1   	16      22  	18  	20      3 	Lance C Axe A
Frey    	Paladin    	7 	60 	46 	22  	1  	24  	23  	16  	23      6  	Sword C Lance A
Mallesia    	Sage    	10 	55  	40      3      24   	9  	25  	25      10      11      Tome D Staff A
Etzel 		Sorcerer 	15 	17  	37   	2 	18 	19 	14 	12  	13 	12 	Tome A Staff A

Feena and Xane are obviously used, too. MU has a B in Lance. I have no downloadable content and no Lunatic Statbooster Shop. I have currently 2x Energy Drop, 2x Angelic Robe, 2x Dracoshield and 2x Speedwings, but I safe them for Marth. I´m really paranoid regarding Medeus.

My playstyle is casual. I recruit every unit and open every chest, if possible. I do use Rescue, but I´m surely not LTCing. Sirius can´t double a thing and is 2HKOed. His damage output is also disappinting. I´m unsure what to do with him.

I must commend you for actually being this good about all the stuff going on in your topic. As for advice, I can't really give any since I haven't played lunatic, but like Lumi said, level Marth. Getting him to 20 is pretty important from what I've seen

[Gryz]

Yeah, getting Marth to his speed cap of 25 is absolutely necessary to prevent the final chapter from becoming a living hell.

To survive a hit from Medeus, your Marth needs maxed speed and a combination of 14 more HP/Def.

Training Marth with those current stats will be a pain though.

It might help to splurge on stat-boosters at the chapter 21 secret shop, if you have the cash, to reduce the amount you will need to train Marth. The shop sells 3 of each booster at 2500G apiece.

As for money, chapter 16 and chapter 20 have a 10,000G Bullion. You can also sell excess Master Seals and Elysian Whips for 1250G. Dump the Dragonstones. The Firestone can be sold for 1500G and the Divinestone can be sold for 2250G. Finally, any anti-horse/armor weapon becomes totally useless after chapter 20x and can be sold.

Additionally, you can save some bonds/potions for the final chapter to reduce the amount of stat-boosters needed for Marth. Just remember that each stat can only have one bond/potion applied to it.

If it looks like you will be able to buy a lot of stat-boosters at the chapter 21 secret shop, then I would recommend using the boosters you hold now on your non-Marth units, and then use the Secret Shop boosters on Marth.