Rate the Unit, Day 29: Gonzales

[Narga_Rocks]

Agreed. I like Fir more than Gonzo. They have approximately the same average damage to most enemies. High def stuff Fir sucks against, and swordies Gonzo is useless against, so that kinda balances. Against the rest, ironsword fir cuts them down to under half, and gonzo on average gets one out of two hits and so he cuts them down to half. Gonzo has more durability so unless it's against axe users he's arguably better, but I just can't stand the idea that a quarter of the time he does nothing. 5/10.

[Dark Sage]

Agreed. I like Fir more than Gonzo. They have approximately the same average damage to most enemies. High def stuff Fir sucks against, and swordies Gonzo is useless against, so that kinda balances. Against the rest, ironsword fir cuts them down to under half, and gonzo on average gets one out of two hits and so he cuts them down to half. Gonzo has more durability so unless it's against axe users he's arguably better, but I just can't stand the idea that a quarter of the time he does nothing. 5/10.

Except

Fir sucks

and has constant WTD after the isles

[Shadow Mir]

I still feel that in a game where accuracy is difficult to work with already, Gonzo is just too reminiscent of Keiran!Gamble. Alance lack the comparable power, and may have similar accuracy, but when you have class-based WTControl, it isn't as hard to cope with.

Tell me how often do you use Gamble?

Bold: Or Gamble in general. Otherwise, my point exactly.

I never bother with Gamble since you're only shooting yourself in the foot by using it.

[-Cynthia-]

Gonzales would be a pretty great unit in most FEs following this one- great growths, with pretty stellar bases in most areas. Unfortunately axe lock (esp. in combination with low Skl) isn't good given FE6's formulas. Gonzales also isn't too useful right out of the box, doesn't have a mount etc....so I can't see giving him that much credit despite his high stats and peakwalking abilities.

5/10

[Anouleth]

You are all idiots. Gonzales can reaonably ahieve hit rates in the 60s and 70s post promotion, an even if he mises freqently he also has high crit to make up for it. sure, hesucks against nomads for all of three fucking chapters that aren't even mandatory, crimea river

7/10

[Exiledwolf]

Ok, um Gonzales. Big, Ugly, yet very very strong. Too bad hes axed lock, which gives him one of the worst hit ever. Pair that with his god awful skill base and hes facing 50's hit rate even at a WTA. Sure HM bounuses are great, but when you cannot hit and rely on the RNG? Shameful. I prefer Geese more, but PEMN. ANyways:

4/10 - 0.5 Bias= 3.5/10

[eclipse]

Poor Gonzales. He's really big, really inaccurate, has the wrong affinity, and uses the wrong promotion item. He'd be amazing in Archanea, where bad Skill isn't quite as big of a hindrance, but this is Elibe, so. . .

3.5/10

[Aethereal]

Gonzales is very hit or miss (harharhar)

No, but seriously, this whole accuracy thing is incredibly overblown. When he's on peaks he wrecks wyvern lords better than any one. And they're one of the most important enemies to deal with. They're also most definitely not the only lance users. Every one in the Fir topic was like "Oh, well, there's so much lances after the Isles!" but conveniently don't mention that now.

Anyways, he's incredibly durable, with really awesome attack, and good speed. Missing sucks, but it's not the end of the world.

6/10

[Dark Sage]

I also love how people seem to be rating assuming Sacae or taking it into account, even though the rules say not to do that. And I love how people ignore lots of other units have accuracy issues as well, not just Gonzales.

Seriously, I think you guys rated Lilina better than him. And Lilina is a far worse unit.

[eclipse]

I also love how people seem to be rating assuming Sacae or taking it into account, even though the rules say not to do that. And I love how people ignore lots of other units have accuracy issues as well, not just Gonzales.

Seriously, I think you guys rated Lilina better than him. And Lilina is a far worse unit.

How many of those other people were stuck with the most inaccurate weapon type in the game?

[General Horace]

Also Sage, Integ revised that rule, i'm too lazy to quote it, but it says all routes should be taken into account, so you're incorrect here

but yeah people are ignoring his reasonable performance in Ilia.

[Elieson]

How many of those other people were stuck with the most inaccurate weapon type in the game?

And skill growth that you can count on your fingers and toes?

[Thor Odinson]

I also love how people seem to be rating assuming Sacae or taking it into account, even though the rules say not to do that. And I love how people ignore lots of other units have accuracy issues as well, not just Gonzales.

The rules were changed a while ago (during Zealot's rating) to only assume one route for route-specific characters. Performances on both are taken into account unless you simply don't exist on one, in which case no "does not exist on Ilia 0/10" for Dayan. Saying "can't hit shit in Sacae" provided also giving an explanation of his Ilian performance and then weighing things equally is fair game, however.

//late

Edited April 1, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Colonel M]

I think Gamble!Kieran is a piss poor comparison to Gonzales. Let's review the key differences.

In FE9:

- Kieran doesn't have access to a Killer weapon in the beginning, so his crit isn't jumping that high.

- Gonzales has +30% Crit on Kieran once Gonzales promotes.

- With Gamble, at the beginning, chances are his Hit rates are dropping lower than Gonzales. Iron Axe Kieran (unforged) has 52 Hit. FE6's Steel Axe has 2 less Hit than that shit. Come on, really?

- When he gets to doubling, he's usually ORKOing anyway, so why the fuck should we use Gamble again?

- Killer weapons are rare enough as is and the most you can get from forges is a whopping 9. Woohoo! A 20/1 Kieran unsupported? 53 Hit with Killer Axe. Someone get me a fucking curtain!

In FE10:

- He can't double anything, so everything with Gamble is pretty moot as is.

Gonzales still differs from something as gimmicky as Gamble Kieran. For one, Gonzales is doubling. That already sets him a bar apart from FE10 Kieran. For another, his Hit rates are not as abysmal as Kieran activating Gamble. Kieran activating Gamble isn't even getting a whole lot of crit anyway aside from using a Killer weapon. Killer weapons obviously cannot be forged, and with Gamble active it still has lower Hit than FE6's Hand Axe! Gonzales does require training to double. This much is true. It helps that a lot of enemies after the Western Isles are at least Lance users. Using a Halberd he has two swings to down a Cavalier in one hit, and as others point out constantly - many units still fail to ORKO throughout the game anyway. Western Isles is difficult enough as is unless your bad ass Swordsmen (see? I mentioned "men", not "women". Fir is not included in this category), and they're rocky on it. Dieck might miss some doubling, Marcus and Zealot can get iffy after a while, which pretty much leaves fucking Rutger. If an enemy is weakened and Gonzales has two shots to kill someone, chances are he's going to kill them. 18 Avoid is roughly the max I see on Fighters, which means 67% Displayed, 78.55% True. To miss both shots? It's roughly 4.6%.

I get that Gonzales isn't accurate (I even mentioned it in my rating, and I'm taking into account how much he can get trashed in Sacae), but I merely want to point out that Gamble!Kieran =/= Gonzales. They're on a different planet.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Colonel M

[dondon151]

It actually uses 1 number. In all the American/European releases uses 2. To clarify. In the other ones you have a higher chance of getting a higher number but a lower chance of getting a low number.

funny that you say this because which one of us has actually used a tool to view the RNG state in order to plan a speedrun?

[Duff Ostrich]

Gonzales earned four pages because Gonzales IS AWESOME.

My favorite character in FE6 is also not very good. He's a significantly less impressive Bartre at base with better growths that nevertheless don't entirely make up for it. I think a lot of us have exaggerated his hit issues (remember how generous two RNs are) but a problem of his I cannot ignore is 10-11 base AS. At this point in the game it's borderline poor even with 50% growth and he needs a few levels or an instant promotion (on B route) to start doubling anything with respectable AS of its own. The bad hit compounds the immediate inability to double makes his start decidedly bad.

As for what's good about him, he's got impressive base strength and phenomenal HP, the latter of which makes him unkillable forever (slight hyperbole). And with an unrivaled hp/str/spd growth combo he is always getting better and is a complete monster lategame. Giving him those levels may be difficult to justify with a weak offensive start and poor performance in both Sacae and against bosses, but I wouldn't play the game without him. I put him on chapter 13 mountains with a killer axe and feed him paladin and cavalier reinforcements, which I'm pretty sure is the least efficient thing I do every playthrough.

6.0, and that's only with a full point of bias. I figure I gave Lot a 5 and he's no worse than that, even if Lot has forced deployment.

[Colonel M]

funny that you say this because which one of us has actually used a tool to view the RNG state in order to plan a speedrun?

It's also been in Serenes Forest's True Hit guide for a long time.

Hi True Hit!

This is a phenomenon that occurs in FE6~12 (although it has not yet been directly confirmed in FE10).

Just saiyan'.

EDIT: Stealthed by Lumi. D'oh.

But yeah, don't take my account on his Hit being good. Oh trust me when I say it's still rocky.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Colonel M

[dondon151]

I think a lot of us have exaggerated his hit issues (remember how generous two RNs are)

it's not that generous. a lot of us are equally guilty for making the assumption that 60-70 displayed hit is reliable when it really isn't.

[Thor Odinson]

I just linked the true hit guide earlier ' 3'

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I mean, Gonzales is cursed with shit accuracy in FE6, like most others... Can't blame him here. He does have sexy crit boosts, and his HP growth is gr9mazing.

You gotta like the guy, too. He's a decent foot unit. He's no Rutger, but he's not as bad as others.

5.5/10

[MacLovin]

4.5/10

His offense is crazy, and his HM bases are crazy.

Echidna route allows him to grow more.

Barte route has him at lvl 11, and promo gains are +5 skill.

But hero crest compt. is fierce, so he'll have to wait until ch16.

In Illia he hates magic, in sacae-everything.

But his acc. issues are what kill him.

Above average offense, good physical durability, support list, and all.

Bad skl, res, and hero crest is what everyone wants.

So, he's about average IMP

[BBHood217]

He's ugly and he can't blink! 0/10 >:(

...nah, disregard that. I got nothing.

[Integrity]

He's ugly and he can't blink! 0/10 >:(

YOU'RE UGLY AND CAN'T BLINK

sorry, sorry, that was too easy

Tallying, moving on.

[Anouleth]

Gonzales still differs from something as gimmicky as Gamble Kieran. For one, Gonzales is doubling. That already sets him a bar apart from FE10 Kieran. For another, his Hit rates are not as abysmal as Kieran activating Gamble. Kieran activating Gamble isn't even getting a whole lot of crit anyway aside from using a Killer weapon.

Even with a Killer weapon Kieran has poor crit. His mediocre skill against sky-high FE10 luck means he'll usually have around 25 crit before Gamble, so he's sitting at 50 hit and 50 crit. Gonzales has 60 hit and 60 crit, on the other hand; and he has that on enemy phase as well as player phase.