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Multiple Prfs - possible workaround?


Agro
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edit: I hadn't realised this was old news, but you can read the original post, regardless.

So I've been toying with the idea of a hack for a little while, and one of the things I really want to implement is Thracia's personal-weapon sort of thing. But to novice "hackers" i.e. people who use Nightmare like myself, beyond the Rapier/Mani Katti/Wolf Beil/Forblaze locks, there's not a lot you can do in this sense. But! I think I figured out an incredibly easy workaround for this that doesn't require anything more than the Nightmare modules.

I started playing around with the item and character abilities, and so I gave the Iron Sword the Eliwood-lock. Starting off in the prologue, it was pretty plain to see that Lyn was unable to use the Iron Sword. Then I gave Lyn the Unlock Rapier Ability, and she could use it. I wondered, then, if Lyn could use the Iron Sword (with the Eliwood-lock) regardless of her Sword rank, so I changed her weapon ranks so she only had a D in Lances. She couldn't use the Iron Sword (with the Eliwood-lock) any more, which is what I'd expected.

Then I realised that this meant that I could do a lot more, because obviously the game doesn't check to see if Lyn is actually Eliwood, it only checks to see that she has the ability that we know as 'Unlock Rapier/Durandal'. Say, then, that I wanted to have (in one FE7 hack) Micaiah, Ike, Ephraim and Olwen, each of which have the personal weapons Thani, Ragnell, Mareeta's Sword, Siegmund and Daim Thunder respectively.

So we've got:

Micaiah - Thani

Ike - Ragnell

Ephraim - Siegmund

Olwen - Daim Thunder

What I realised was that as long as these characters didn't share any common usable weapons, I could give all of these items in a GBA hack the Rapier-lock (or rather, 'locked to Eliwood'), then give each character their own weapons, and as long as they are the only characters in the game using that weapon type with the Unlock Rapier ability, then they are the only people who can use those weapons. So we would have:

Micaiah (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Thani (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ike (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Ragnell (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ephraim (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Siegmund (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Olwen (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Daim Thunder (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Assuming everybody's weapon types are identical to how they were in their respective games, since Micaiah doesn't have a rank in swords, she simply can't ever use the Ragnell, and likewise, Ephraim can't ever use Thani; Ike can't use Daim Thunder since he doesn't have an Anima rank, etc. etc. The only problem is that Olwen can now the Ragnell, but I'll get to that in a moment.

This also creates problems if you, say, wanted to put Mareeta in the game as well, who uses Mareeta's Sword as her personal weapon, since she also uses swords - if you gave her the Unlock Rapier/Durandal skill then she would be able to use the Ragnell as well. As I mentioned before, Olwen, since she would have Anima and Sword ranks, can also use the Ragnell and Mareeta's Sword, which is another issue. But this is where the Wolf Beil/Mani Katti/Forblaze unlocks come in handy. You could arrange things like this instead:

Micaiah (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Thani (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ike (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Ragnell (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ephraim (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Siegmund (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Olwen (Unlock Mani Katti/Sol Katti) - Daim Thunder (Locked to 'Lyn')

Mareeta (Unlock Wolf Beil/Armads) - Mareeta's Sword (Locked to 'Hector')

Mareeta can't use the Ragnell, and Ike can't use Mareeta's Sword. I guess you could rinse+repeat with the Mani Katti/Forblaze unlocks as well for a grand total of four personal weapons per weapon type maximum. Again, this creates logistical problems if you wanted to put, say, Hector (promoted) into the game as well, who'd then be able to use Mareeta's Sword and the Wolf Beil, but I never said that this was perfect - it's just a workaround. Here's a theoretical setup that would allow for heaps of personal weapons:

Micaiah (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Thani (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ike (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Ragnell (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Ephraim (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Siegmund (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Olwen (Unlock Mani Katti/Sol Katti) - Daim Thunder (Locked to 'Lyn')

Mareeta (Unlock Wolf Beil/Armads) - Mareeta's Sword (Locked to 'Hector')

Sigurd (Unlock Forblaze) - Tyrfing (Locked to 'Athos')

Dean (Unlock Wolf Beil/Armads) - Dragon Lance (Locked to 'Hector')

Sanaki (Unlock Rapier/Durandal) - Cymbeline (Locked to 'Eliwood')

Sety (Unlock Forblaze) - Holsety (Locked to 'Athos')

Hector (Unlock Mani Katti/Sol Katti) - Armads (Locked to 'Lyn')

Malliesia (Unlock Wolf Beil/Armads) - Hammerne (Locked to 'Hector')

and you could keep going until there was a clash (your problem, not mine). You could take things a step further like I plan to and give all weapons 0 weapon EXP so that everyone's weapon levels are fixed; this way, if Ike had an S in swords and Mareeta had an A in swords, then even if they were both on the Rapier Lock, only Ike could use the Ragnell (although he'd be able to use Mareeta's Sword as well, but again, that's your problem, not mine).

"Prfs" everywhere! So as long as you don't have weird weapon crossovers like Anima/Axes or Axe/Staff or your characters aren't able to use heaps of weapon types, you can theoretically have up to 32 Prf weapons in one FE7 hack... or at least, I think, I've yet to do further testing. Tell me what you guys think! I hope no one else has thought of this before, because then this whole post has been for absolutely nothing lol but I thought I'd share this idea here. I've been kind of out of the hacking scene for a while so I don't really know what people can and can't do anymore... even so, this method is incredibly simple and if no one has thought of it before I will be quite surprised. Feel free to shoot anything down if I've made a mistake somewhere :/

inb4 camtech hacks this one in via ASM or some shit

Edited by Agro
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Even if it is old news, Agro was able to figure this out himself. Shows he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

Other inexperienced modders/hackers could definitely learn from his example. NewYearsEmoticon.gif

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Regardless of this being old news or not, Prime is very right. Showing other newer hackers that getting your hands dirty isn't a bad thing. Hacking encourages experimenting, and experimenting is fun. So even if you don't discover something new per se, as long as you discovered it on your own, it's still a victory.

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Even if it is old news, Agro was able to figure this out himself. Shows he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

Other inexperienced modders/hackers could definitely learn from his example. NewYearsEmoticon.gif

damnit

No no no no, don't get discouraged. Yes, the information is old, but like Primefusion said you FIGURED IT OUT YOURSELF. That says that you put effort more than a lot of people we've seen asking with them expecting us to give them everything they need.

Basically, if you just keep working at it, you can definitely use your problem solving skills elsewhere. Like how Nintenlord said when he quoted something awesome...

It basically said hackers are generally hostile, and we are unapologetic to those people who ask questions that are easily found and just sit there expecting to be spoonfed the info... Basically we see them as time-sinks.

But for those who put forth effort, like yourself... when we see that, we encourage asking questions. Even if sometimes you do ask something that might be old info, and such... we can see that the effort you're putting is there and you're trying things out yourself to see how they work BEFORE you ask questions. Trying to experience things and observe things before asking questions. We like that. You are not a time-sink. And I apologize if that comment might sound a little... iffy, but I mean it as a compliment. XD

Edited by shadowofchaos
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I'll join in the rest saying that it is good that you yourself figured this out. It means you understand the process and can apply it to other problems. It was Arch that originally invented it (he may have asked few things from me, but most work was his, IIRC), so you are "playing with the big ones". Please continue inventing things, even if it's a chance you are reinventing them, sometimes you'll even do better than the original hacker.

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yup, Arch was the one who did it, though at the time I didn't care enough to see what he had discovered... and then I ended up making the same conclusion myself and then I was like "wait didn't Arch say something about this" and boom, found that Arch had manipulated what he had like 2 years before me, so yeah, it's good to have that skill to figure things out on your own since that's what separates different hacks, the unique stuff that isn't like, common knowledge or cliche and whatnot.

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Arch might have been the first person to publicly do it with this game, but manipulating elements like these has been normal for... decades, as far as game development goes.

._.

Being efficient is always the plus.

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Arch might have been the first person to publicly do it with this game, but manipulating elements like these has been normal for... decades, as far as game development goes.

No love from Serlis? I don't think you can discredit someone's findings just because other people do similar things with other video games. That's like telling an astronomer that he doesn't get credit for the star he discovered, because people have been finding stars for decades. It's just normal, as far as astronomy goes. I could give a damn about actually claiming credit, but your logic is just as flawed as always.

Nevertheless. Congratulations to Agro for his find! It's awesome that you did this by yourself. It shows that you've got an innovative mind and an ability to work around problems and think of solutions. I think this was the first thing that I "discovered" too, so it's definitely cool to see someone else doing the same. Keep up the good work! I look forward to seeing more from you, man.

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Pettiness indeed. I'd say that feeling the need to mention that someone's findings are "normal" and saying that it's no big deal, when it was only mentioned that "hey, this guy said it publicly first," is pretty petty indeed. As I said before, I don't care about actual credit; I just love poking holes in that corrupted Serlislogic that your brain seems to function with.

Edited by Arch
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No love from Serlis? ad-hoc

I don't think you can discredit someone's findings - wrong assumption - assertion of false predicament, misinterpreting a premise

your logic is just as flawed as always. - false

that feeling the need to mention that someone's findings are "normal" - wrong assumption - assertion of false predicament, misinterpreting a premise -tail-end of last post

poking holes in that corrupted Serlislogic that your brain seems to function with. - ad-hoc

As opposed to a valid response. Quick, bring the chat van into the thread! "Must defend asses for posterity!"

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Ooh, someone memorized their vocabulary terms. I must say, I love how you're able to determine the falsity of an assessment of your own Serlislogic. That's called a biased truth-value, and such assessments are usually regarded as non-credible in first-order logic. Nevermind that you've also hijacked Agro's thread to assert such laughable assessments. Go home, Serlis. Back to the rock under which you live!

But before that, let's run him over with our chat van!

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  • 1 year later...
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