Rate the Units, FE9 Edition: Endgame

[Shadow Mir]

Personally, I don't see the point of doing the secret characters...

[NinjaMonkey]

Well, since Integ did it for FE8, I don't see why not... (Think of it as a bonus round of sorts...)

Edited May 20, 2012 by NinjaMonkey

[aku chi]

i agree that titania isn't perfect because she does miss a lot of ORKOs in the second half of the game for random reasons, though

The random reason is that you didn't give her a Silver Axe forge. Anyways, Marcia has at least as much difficulty 2HKOing as Titania lategame.

Titania is pretty darn good lategame. Her strength is middling, but she has the best weapon selection in the game (best weapon classes and best weapon ranks). Titania can generally use specialty weapons or silver forges to 2HKO Generals and laguz. The only units Titania might be unable to 2HKO are Wyvern Riders/Lords and tough bosses - hardly an unforgivable shortcoming.

Titania's Def is also middling, but she has decent HP, Res, and Avo. Titania also has no real weapon weaknesses (I can count the number of enemies with Poleaxes on one hand). Titania gets Def from all of her supports, she can take a low-demand Occult Scroll for self-healing, and can equip the Knight Ward if she absolutely needs the +2 Def.

Titania's Spd is good, but generally insufficient to double the fastest enemies. This can be ameliorated by topping off Titania's levels with Bexp at base, so she can use the Knight Ward. While Titania may not be able to double Homasa and Petrine, most foes are within her reach.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Soren should be higher. At least hes above Ilyana. If he wasnt, ohhhh....raeg.

I'm surprised that Calill is way above both of them.

[Diortem]

The random reason is that you didn't give her a Silver Axe forge. Anyways, Marcia has at least as much difficulty 2HKOing as Titania lategame.

Titania is pretty darn good lategame. Her strength is middling, but she has the best weapon selection in the game (best weapon classes and best weapon ranks). Titania can generally use specialty weapons or silver forges to 2HKO Generals and laguz. The only units Titania might be unable to 2HKO are Wyvern Riders/Lords and tough bosses - hardly an unforgivable shortcoming.

Titania's Def is also middling, but she has decent HP, Res, and Avo. Titania also has no real weapon weaknesses (I can count the number of enemies with Poleaxes on one hand). Titania gets Def from all of her supports, she can take a low-demand Occult Scroll for self-healing, and can equip the Knight Ward if she absolutely needs the +2 Def.

Titania's Spd is good, but generally insufficient to double the fastest enemies. This can be ameliorated by topping off Titania's levels with Bexp at base, so she can use the Knight Ward. While Titania may not be able to double Homasa and Petrine, most foes are within her reach.

Okay, sure, she can be good if you give her all of that stuff, but think about this: she needs those to work. I will admit she can be good. Only problem is that if you give all of that stuff to Oscar with Axes as his promotion choice (although why I don't know, but roll with me), or you use Kieran, and their weapon ranks are high enough (by the way, don't forget that you no can has S-rank axe or lance in this game), they emulate her well. Also, supports with Titania give her at the most, 2 def (if i am correct). Her average (of Defense) at max Level is 18, which Oscar surapsses AT LEVEL SEVEN, and Kieran at 8. Oscar can even have a support (although with Janaff) to get the defense Titania can get with her supports. All three of these characters being mentioned are of the Cavalier/Paladin branch, so anything that Titania gets because she is a Paladin (only weakness to infrequent horse-killer weapons, Knight ward, Sol from the Occult scroll etc.) are able to be gotten with Oscar and Kieran. She does have availibility over those two, especially Kieran, but doesn't gain significant exp until quite a few chapters down the road, where she has bleh bases for LV 1 promoted. Also, if anyone misses my point, I am saying that she is rated at almost PERFECT (just a little bit above the Cain and Abel mimics), with all of that against her. Even with bias points, that is ridiculous.

Also, excuse my very long rant, I usually don't like doing that. And if I offended anyone, my apologies, I just needed to say that.

[PKL]

Too bad oscar and kieran need resources to get to titania's level...she has almost a perfect score because shes practically perfect. She saves so many turns in the first few chapters and has no chances of death for a looooong time. Also, if anything, those other scrubs would be taking the experience from titania because she is just that awesome.

[Diortem]

Too bad oscar and kieran need resources to get to titania's level...she has almost a perfect score because shes practically perfect. She saves so many turns in the first few chapters and has no chances of death for a looooong time. Also, if anything, those other scrubs would be taking the experience from titania because she is just that awesome.

I never did say she was bad, it just goes like this: people are talking about her extreme lategame potential, which is what I talked about. She is good in the beginning, I will say that, as are most Oifayes (at least I think of her as one) but, raising Oscar and Kieran yield slightly better results. And like I said, she gets surpassed in stat averages at max level by level 7 or 8 (promoted) characters. She needs basically the same stuff Oscar and Kieran do, and then some, to be amazing as people say.

Also, I am not going to post on this thread anymore, mainly since I don't want to derail its point.

[Lord Raven]

i think titania misses ORKOs early on too if i recall correctly

titania's really good for the first 10 chapters, but she's not godly. especially since, even if oscar/kieran require resources, they're good and low maintenance enough for the most part. In the mid teens as far as chapters go, they will eventually surpass her, on top of Marcia/Jill. She's good but overrated, because no matter how good her first half is she isn't apart of the Curbstomp Express of the second half, since Silver Axe forges don't become available until Chapter 24 anyway

[dondon151]

Titania is pretty darn good lategame. Her strength is middling, but she has the best weapon selection in the game (best weapon classes and best weapon ranks). Titania can generally use specialty weapons or silver forges to 2HKO Generals and laguz. The only units Titania might be unable to 2HKO are Wyvern Riders/Lords and tough bosses - hardly an unforgivable shortcoming.

that's cool and all

do any weapons give titania the ability to fly

[aku chi]

Okay, sure, she can be good if you give her all of that stuff, but think about this: she needs those to work.

Ha. Ha ha ha! Titania can dominate the first half of the game with no costly resources at all. That is why Titania is the most valuable unit in the game. But her lategame is still great. She has a few minor shortcomings, but she has ways of overcoming them.

I will admit she can be good. Only problem is that if you give all of that stuff to Oscar with Axes as his promotion choice (although why I don't know, but roll with me), or you use Kieran, and their weapon ranks are high enough (by the way, don't forget that you no can has S-rank axe or lance in this game), they emulate her well.

• Why wouldn't you give Oscar axes on promotion?
  
• Oscar is unlikely to reach A Axes without an Arms Scroll.
  
• Oscar and Kieran are indeed two of the few units to have slighly better combat than Titania lategame.
  

Also, supports with Titania give her at the most, 2 def (if i am correct).

You are incorrect. A Mist (which is most likely) gives Titania +3 Def and +1 Atk. Titania can get an additional +1 Def with another B Support (Ike is a possibility - who also provides +20 Avo).

Her average (of Defense) at max Level is 18, which Oscar surapsses AT LEVEL SEVEN, and Kieran at 8. Oscar can even have a support (although with Janaff) to get the defense Titania can get with her supports. All three of these characters being mentioned are of the Cavalier/Paladin branch, so anything that Titania gets because she is a Paladin (only weakness to infrequent horse-killer weapons, Knight ward, Sol from the Occult scroll etc.) are able to be gotten with Oscar and Kieran.

There is a point at which one is sufficiently durable, and additional durability is not helpful. Titania, Kieran, and especially Oscar can all reach that threshold. Oscar is notable for being effectively invincible with an Ike support lategame, but it is rare indeed when his durability advantage over the other Paladins is noteworthy.

She does have availibility over those two, especially Kieran, but doesn't gain significant exp until quite a few chapters down the road, where she has bleh bases for LV 1 promoted.

Titania gets plenty of Cexp from boss kills, and happens to be the best boss killer for many chapters. When playing efficiently, it's common for Titania to be level 8-10 by the time Oscar and Kieran promote, at which point they have no combat advantages.

Also, if anyone misses my point, I am saying that she is rated at almost PERFECT (just a little bit above the Cain and Abel mimics), with all of that against her. Even with bias points, that is ridiculous.

*shrug. Titania is clearly the most valuable unit in PoR. She's not perfect. No unit is. Some people consider a 10-rating to be worthy only of the perfect unit. Some consider a 10-rating fitting for the most valuable unit in the game. Many people have no cogent rating system, so taking these topics seriously is unwise.

[Refa]

that's cool and all

do any weapons give titania the ability to fly

let's be fair here

he's arguing with someone who's saying kieran and oscar are better than titania, not jill/marcia

alternatively

COMING TO A ROMHACK NEAR YOU

Edited May 20, 2012 by Refa

[Hawk King]

Personally, I took Titania's availability into account when I rated her. I gave Titania a 10, Marcia a 9.75, and Jill a 9.5 pretty much based off their availability. Titania can make a significant contribution in every single Chapter except for Chapter 25. No other unit in the game can say this. The fact that I gave Marcia and Jill nearly perfect scores despite having 9 and 11, respectively, fewer Chapters of availability just goes to show how good I think they are. If Marcia joined after Chapter 2 she would be a 10 and Titania's score would probably go down a half point. Also, if Jill had joined after Chapter 11 instead of the middle of Chapter 12, She would also get a 10 from me.

As far as Oscar and Kieran go, same reason. Titania kicks ass for the 1st 10 Chapters. They dont.

[CT075]

@titania argument

whoo jagen arguments

titania's lategame is on-par with everyone else's. yes, on-par. idgaf that her stats are marginally lower than everyone else's; it honestly makes no difference to me whether one gets 24RKO'd or 40RKO'd, that unit is not dying unless you pull something phenomenally stupid. likewise, doing 20x2 vs. 30x2 to a 36 hp enemy looks pretty equal to me. this is the same as the holsety sety vs. holsety arthur argument- stats don't exist in a vacuum, just having stupidly high numbers means nothing if one accomplishes equally as much with lower numbers.

finally, you say that oscar beats titania's average /20 def at 20/7. this is factually correct but you are misrepresenting things. in order for oscar to reach titania's prowess at base level, he needs to be fed resources/etc. same for kieran, or for anyone else who doesn't fly. and once everyone else does catch up, it is unfair for one to claim "oh she is not entitled to a silver axe forge/hand axe forge/etc" after everyone else on the team has been fed resources in exp and forges of their own.

[Vicious Sal]

1337463912[/url]' post='1985321']

Mini-rant time. Why is Titania rated higher than everyone? I am not going to insult anybody, since I am not that kind of person, but why?

She is okay in some aspects, being a crutch. Even so, if she's raised to level 20 (i am saying her MAX level, with base stats like 12 Str, and 11 Def), while decent on Speed and Skill, other stats average out on around 21 Str, 18 Def, and 15 res, which range from passable, to bleh. She isn't even going to gain exp significantly for a long while, and if you raise her earlier, she hogs it from everyone else. Later, she's a *insert synonym for female dog here* to raise. Why is she rated as the best unit in the game, and almost PERFECTLY RATED? Sure, being a Paladin is cool, but she is NOT perfect. I am just stating the facts, and just so confused, I don't think anyone can change my opinion of that rating being a little over-exaggerated.

Because averages are completely wrong here. It is fixed mode, which means you get points for getting a battle. If you gain shit exp, you get more time to rack up points, more points equal better level ups. They might take time, but are almost always 5-7 stats per level.

[PuffPuff]

Good debate. As MKS said something that caught my interest for a moment and that's doing the secret characters.

I'd say "No Point". As they are only available in trial maps.

Edited May 21, 2012 by リンダ

[Snowy_One]

Really bugs me that Stefan is so freaking high. He's right below Astrid for crying out loud! The guy comes half-way through the game as a member of an average class and people consider him one of the best units in the game? He's not even really all that impressive once other units start promoting.

[bottlegnomes]

Really bugs me that Stefan is so freaking high. He's right below Astrid for crying out loud! The guy comes half-way through the game as a member of an average class and people consider him one of the best units in the game? He's not even really all that impressive once other units start promoting.

1) Lots of bias. I wouldn't be surprised if his actual score were closer to 6.5.

2) He's still impressive for a long time. 19 strength is very good for a long time, even with swordlock. If nothing else, he makes a fairly good boss killer.

[Snowy_One]

I know his base stats are impressive, but that doesn't change that he's gonna be around for only half the game and half of that time he's only going to be 'average' if not below depending on how turn-obsessed the player is. Plus, I saw a lot of people counting Astra and/or that he brought the VK as positives (not that he could use it, that he brought it), so I would say the Stefan vote is complete garbage.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Snowy_One

[Albino]

Really bugs me that Stefan is so freaking high. He's right below Astrid for crying out loud! The guy comes half-way through the game as a member of an average class and people consider him one of the best units in the game? He's not even really all that impressive once other units start promoting.

There are 10 units rated higher than Stefan, which is almost a quarter of the entire playable cast. I fail to see how "people consider him to be one of the best units in the game" when almost a quarter of the cast was given better scores that him.

I know his base stats are impressive, but that doesn't change that he's gonna be around for only half the game and half of that time he's only going to be 'average' if not below depending on how turn-obsessed the player is. Plus, I saw a lot of people counting Astra and/or that he brought the VK as positives (not that he could use it, that he brought it), so I would say the Stefan vote is complete garbage.

I think it's fair to give him credit for being able to use Astra (since it can't be given to another unit), and only a couple of people gave him credit for actually bringing the VK. I'd also like to point out that you gave him a 6/10 rating before bias, which is only 1.4 below the average. While I do believe that Stefan is worth less than a 7.40 (if only a little), I'd hardly call the entire Stefan vote complete garbage.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Albino

[BBM]

I know his base stats are impressive, but that doesn't change that he's gonna be around for only half the game and half of that time he's only going to be 'average' if not below depending on how turn-obsessed the player is. Plus, I saw a lot of people counting Astra and/or that he brought the VK as positives (not that he could use it, that he brought it), so I would say the Stefan vote is complete garbage.

a) Him having innate Astra is a perfectly legitimate point for him, if you believe that Astra is a good skill. Unless you mean the Occult Scroll he gives you in the next base?

b) Like I said in Stefan's thread, I DID count the items he brings as a point for him, and said I wasn't going to change my vote either. If my vote wasn't thrown out, meh.

c) Stefan's 1-range combat is never bad. If Boyd is one of your best units for a shaky beginning, and then good 1-2 range combat starting around midgame, Stefan is always at least average for good 1-range combat starting midgame.

d) Who exactly do you think should be going above Stefan that is currently below him?

[bottlegnomes]

d) Who exactly do you think should be going above Stefan that is currently below him?

Rolf, duh.

[ZemZem]

Put in the link to the Trial Map characters' thread in the OP, but I didn't tally them. It just feels more complete.

I was pretty cool taking this over, and I know that I made a few decisions that weren't really well received, but I think I did pretty well overall. Thanks folks.

[bottlegnomes]

Put in the link to the Trial Map characters' thread in the OP, but I didn't tally them. It just feels more complete.

I was pretty cool taking this over, and I know that I made a few decisions that weren't really well received, but I think I did pretty well overall. Thanks folks.

Congratulations. You've completed one of the most tedious, and some would say, pointless, exercises in FE fandom. I mean that sincerely. Running these things sucks, and I commend you for completing it.

Edited May 22, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Samias]

Stefan has a wonky recruitment but he is decidedly way better than average when he joins, plus he has a zero-effort S rank in swords. He has better bases than the rest of the joinees for the rest of the game, sans luck. His growths don't even suck! He isn't the best swordie in the game once everyone catches up in levels, but considering what a pain weapon exp is in this game, Stefan is ahead of the curve. When you factor in all the bias Stefan gets, his score is just right for his role.

Nasir should be lower. He can't do anything. Even Tibarn/Giffca have a better contribution and they don't even show up until the game is over. Nasir just farts around uselessly because dragon laguz blow chunks.

[bottlegnomes]

I do have one complaint. I still think you should count my Nasir rating. :P