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Lebron James


Westbrick
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Top ten player of all time.

And hated by many people. XD

I've heard they burned his jerseys on a few occasions.

*Doesn't watch, but dad does*

Also the reason why that jersey is just sitting in the thrift shop my mom goes to here in Vegas... Nobody wants to buy it. XD

Inb4 compare him to Michael Jordan

Also... I don't get the State Farm commercial with him endorsing education... when he himself has never set foot in any college. XD

Edited by shadowofchaos
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Also... I don't get the State Farm commercial with him endorsing education... when he himself has never set foot in any college. XD

Pretty callous stuff. The commercial is about graduating high school, which many inner-city kids sadly fail to do. Lebron himself almost didn't graduate because of the distractions and pressures associated with his high school basketball play, so he's pretty much a perfect spokesperson for the cause.

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Why.... why why why? Why was basketball brought up here? I deal with enough of it from my roommates in the real world, I don't want any of it in my fantasy-land on the internet.....

Because discussing anything other than Fire Emblem in this forum is a crime, RIGHT?

It is a CRIME to have any interests other than Fire Emblem in this forum.

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I wanted OKC to win...

Me too man ;-;

Lebron deserved it this year though unlike last year where he let DWade do everything for him. There was some serious refball in the other 3 wins (don't even get me started on that) but this win was well deserved and I don't want to take anything away from Lebron's accomplishment. Gonna miss the Lebron jokes though; I think people are starting to move on to "No Ring Melo" now. The only downside to this is how annoying people are gonna be with Lebron/MJ comparisons. The dude won ONE ring and he's not even as good as Kobe. How are you gonna compare him to the best player of all time?

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also, this

Oh god that's a disturbing image.

LeBron carried a great season into a great postseason and finally got his ring. Gonna miss all the ringless LeBron stuff now. Also those damn inevitable Jordan comparisons when LeBron's game is pretty different, he should be compared to Magic or maybe Bird.

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Oh god that's a disturbing image.

LeBron carried a great season into a great postseason and finally got his ring. Gonna miss all the ringless LeBron stuff now. Also those damn inevitable Jordan comparisons when LeBron's game is pretty different, he should be compared to Magic or maybe Bird.

If we're only comparing playing styles he's significantly different to all 3. :P The only similarity is his new pension for passing out of the post, but even that he does differently from Bird, Magic, and especially Jordan.

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The only downside to this is how annoying people are gonna be with Lebron/MJ comparisons. The dude won ONE ring and he's not even as good as Kobe. How are you gonna compare him to the best player of all time?

I know, Magic Johnson is so great.

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Lebron deserved it this year though unlike last year where he let DWade do everything for him. There was some serious refball in the other 3 wins (don't even get me started on that)

No, I'm gonna get you started on that. So what media-driven statistic are you going to regurgitate? That Westbrook only went to the line twice during his 43-point extravaganza? The missed foul on Lebron at the end of Game 2? Because for all of the talk of "refball," the bottom goddamn line is that the Thunder played like ass. Harden, KING flopper, was the worst player on the court every time Brooks had the audacity to field him, Durant shrunk during the 4th, and Ibaka and Perkins were useless defensively. Sorry to be blunt, but anyone who blames this Finals victory on "refball" needs to find a new sport to watch.

Kudos to an excellent series and playoffs, but he's not a top 10 just yet. This is only his second year without a serious playoff let down. If he plays like this a few more years then we can talk, but.

Who's above him, in your eyes? Because even if he's not quite ten, he's entered the pantheon of all-time greats and is consequently top twelve without question.

LeBron carried a great season into a great postseason and finally got his ring. Gonna miss all the ringless LeBron stuff now. Also those damn inevitable Jordan comparisons when LeBron's game is pretty different, he should be compared to Magic or maybe Bird.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I'd take it a step further: Lebron is an entirely unique player, something I like to call a Power Pointguard. But he's certainly more of a Magic than a Jordan.

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Who's above him, in your eyes? Because even if he's not quite ten, he's entered the pantheon of all-time greats and is consequently top twelve without question.

In no particular order: magic, Jordan, hakeem, Kareem, bird, Kobe, shaq, Duncan, wilt, Russell, Dr.j. I feel like I'm missing one or two, but I'm on my phone right now. I can make a more detailed explanation later. Funny enough this puts him right at 12.

Let me clarify for whatever its worth: my reasoning isn't related to lebrons quality of play but consistent playoff dominance. Lebron this year played at a higher level than many of the above ever did in the playoffs. That said, he has played well well below the standards of those 12 players in 4 series-all of which he lost-in his career. If we talk about say... 2 or 3 more years of dominance(not necessarily at this ridiculous standard) then I feel he'd leap frog up the list. But seriously, being in that company is no slight.

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If we're only comparing playing styles he's significantly different to all 3. :P The only similarity is his new pension for passing out of the post, but even that he does differently from Bird, Magic, and especially Jordan.

I'd say he has more in common with Magic than just passing out of the post. LeBron can also play all five positions and actually defend all of them well and there is the court vision especially in transition. With Bird it is the postion they play (point forward not their listing as small forward) and their abilities to play said position so well.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I'd take it a step further: Lebron is an entirely unique player, something I like to call a Power Pointguard. But he's certainly more of a Magic than a Jordan.

Yeah he really does separate him in some ways because of his athletic ability and physical strength and the strength leads him to annoy me when he flops cause there is no way that anyone in the NBA could knock him over unless they were sprinting then blindside tacked him so why the hell does junk like

happen.
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I'd say he has more in common with Magic than just passing out of the post. LeBron can also play all five positions and actually defend all of them well and there is the court vision especially in transition. With Bird it is the postion they play (point forward not their listing as small forward) and their abilities to play said position so well.

Saying they all had good court vision is like saying lebron and Durant are similar in that they both score. They both are great passers in different ways and capacities. Lebron is much better at stretching the floor with his skip passes and playing in the pick and roll/pop. Magic was a much better fast break play maker, and at driving and finding cutters or pulling defenders onto him, and finding openings. Bird was a great post passer and incredible at drop passes in the lane. While they're all capable of each of these things, they each had more expertise at one or another.

I agree with lebron being flexible like magic, although still in different capacities. Bird played a lot more off the ball and in the post than the ball handling forward that lebron plays. No criticism of any of the 3, just very different styles of play.

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No, I'm gonna get you started on that. So what media-driven statistic are you going to regurgitate? That Westbrook only went to the line twice during his 43-point extravaganza? The missed foul on Lebron at the end of Game 2? Because for all of the talk of "refball," the bottom goddamn line is that the Thunder played like ass. Harden, KING flopper, was the worst player on the court every time Brooks had the audacity to field him, Durant shrunk during the 4th, and Ibaka and Perkins were useless defensively. Sorry to be blunt, but anyone who blames this Finals victory on "refball" needs to find a new sport to watch.

Just want to clear things up before I say anything. 1) I'm not saying Miami won just because of the refs, I'm just saying they were a factor. 2) OKC defense was shit-tier as a whole, Harden played like shit ever since the SA series (probably not used to playing against starter-caliber players, and he looked a little nervous and jittery IMO), Perkins was useless basically since he wasn't an offensive threat and is only really effective guarding true centers (which Miami obviously lacks), Durant was getting the ball where he wanted it (you can blame that on Brooks for not setting up good plays, Westbrook for not passing him the ball enough (there were numerous times where Durant was WIDE OPEN but Westbrook chose to attack the basket and miss) an even Durant for not being able to shake off Battier and Lebron), Westbrook trying to do too much most of the time, and every OKC role player not producing at all. 3) I rarely ever use media like ESPN to base my opinions on, and in this case for example I just watched the games and formulated opinions that way. Besides, the media has been pretty busy sucking Lebron's dick to say anything about the refs haha. 4) Lebron DESERVED a ring this year, he played better than anyone else this season and in the playoffs.

Alright, now to show some examples of the refball I was talking about.

  • Every 50/50 call went Miami's way
  • That Flagrant on Fisher last night was LOL
  • Playing physical defense on Miami players was a foul/incredibly unnecessary offball fouls (don't even deny it, if you watched the games you will know what I mean)
  • Almost every time OKC attacked the basket and hit a Miami player it was an offensive foul (some were warranted, some weren't, I believe that would go in the 50/50 category)
  • Do I need to mention the missed call by the refs Game 2 on KD? I'm not saying that in itself cost them the game, but it was a big no call that screwed OKC over. And don't give me that "oh what about the no call charge! KD shouldn't have even been in the game!" What selective memory. KD's fourth foul was a blocking foul on Battier that wasn't called correctly. Replays clearly showed that it wasn't a charge.
  • Westbrook had 43 points and attacked the basket a plethora of times. Only got 2 foul calls. Don't even give me that "good defense" shit. Yes they played some solid defense, but they fouled him more often than not.
  • The fourth quarter of Game 3 had the big 3 going to the line almost every possession

Just some examples, because I know for a fact I can't remember everything. However, I'm not taking anything away from the Heat because they still outplayed them and Lebron looked unstoppable. But the refs played a huge factor and the series, in reality, shouldn't be over just yet. But what's done is done and I was entertained so I don't really care.

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I wanna know what CB4's reception in Toronto is going to be. Considering that Bosh left the Raptors to go to Miami for a real shot at a ring, that's gonna sting in Toronto. I wonder if he'll start receiving Carter style hate.

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I dunno, I don't think anybody over here really cares about Bosh. Maybe if he'd carried the Heat to their victory, people would have said that he should have stayed with the Raptors, but he was a secondary figure at best in the Heat's championship. Carter leaving Toronto was a bit before I paid much attention to basketball, but IIRC Carter was a big dick in addition to just leaving.

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Alright, now to show some examples of the refball I was talking about.

  • Every 50/50 call went Miami's way
  • That Flagrant on Fisher last night was LOL
  • Playing physical defense on Miami players was a foul/incredibly unnecessary offball fouls (don't even deny it, if you watched the games you will know what I mean)
  • Almost every time OKC attacked the basket and hit a Miami player it was an offensive foul (some were warranted, some weren't, I believe that would go in the 50/50 category)
  • Do I need to mention the missed call by the refs Game 2 on KD? I'm not saying that in itself cost them the game, but it was a big no call that screwed OKC over. And don't give me that "oh what about the no call charge! KD shouldn't have even been in the game!" What selective memory. KD's fourth foul was a blocking foul on Battier that wasn't called correctly. Replays clearly showed that it wasn't a charge.
  • Westbrook had 43 points and attacked the basket a plethora of times. Only got 2 foul calls. Don't even give me that "good defense" shit. Yes they played some solid defense, but they fouled him more often than not.
  • The fourth quarter of Game 3 had the big 3 going to the line almost every possession

1) You said you were providing specific examples; this one here is an unsubstantiated generality. Hey, I can do it too! "Every 50/50 call went OKC's way."

2) Flagrant on Fish was a bad call; so was DWade getting called for a foul when Fisher landed on top of him. Even JVG commented that that sort of loose-ball foul is a rarity even during the regular season, let alone Game 5 of the Finals.

3) No.

4) No. Miami is notoriously excellent at drawing charges. Battier's a goddamn pro.

5) This one's legit. OKC still would have lost, though, because the following three things would've needed to happen: a) Durant makes two clutch FTs ; b) the Heat miss the go-ahead buzzer beater ; c) OKC manage to win in OT with their star player having accrued five fouls. So no, it didn't really matter a whole lot despite being an obviously terrible call. [Oh, and you're dead wrong about the Battier situation. Read the rules: it's a common misconception, but a player does not need to have his feet set to draw the charge. It's about upper body position.]

6) This one's.. kinda legit, although if you look at the averages, Westbrook usually doesn't average too many FTs. Plus, he was taking an absurd number of jumpers which happened to go in, and wasn't driving nearly as much as the box score might indicate.

7) Not really, and it wasn't that much more notable than Game 1 at OKC. People tend to forget that game because it doesn't conform to the cHeat narrative Lebron haters like to spin up (not throwing you in this category), but it was a pretty horrendously officiated game. The home team gets favored by refs a litte, even in the Finals; nothing new.

Edited by Westbrick
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1) You said you were providing specific examples; this one here is an unsubstantiated generality. Hey, I can do it too! "Every 50/50 call went OKC's way."

2) Flagrant on Fish was a bad call; so was DWade getting called for a foul when Fisher landed on top of him. Even JVG commented that that sort of loose-ball foul is a rarity even during the regular season, let alone Game 5 of the Finals.

3) No.

4) No. Miami is notoriously excellent at drawing charges. Battier's a goddamn pro.

5) This one's legit. OKC still would have lost, though, because the following three things would've needed to happen: a) Durant makes two clutch FTs ; b) the Heat miss the go-ahead buzzer beater ; c) OKC manage to win in OT with their star player having accrued five fouls. So no, it didn't really matter a whole lot despite being an obviously terrible call. [Oh, and you're dead wrong about the Battier situation. Read the rules: it's a common misconception, but a player does not need to have his feet set to draw the charge. It's about upper body position.]

6) This one's.. kinda legit, although if you look at the averages, Westbrook usually doesn't average too many FTs. Plus, he was taking an absurd number of jumpers which happened to go in, and wasn't driving nearly as much as the box score might indicate.

7) Not really, and it wasn't that much more notable than Game 1 at OKC. People tend to forget that game because it doesn't conform to the cHeat narrative Lebron haters like to spin up (not throwing you in this category), but it was a pretty horrendously officiated game. The home team gets favored by refs a litte, even in the Finals; nothing new.

1) No, I said I would give examples. Saying "there was refball" is vague, therefore I throw out an example of the type of refball that occurred. I apologize for not stating every moment when there was a 50/50 call because that would take forever. But that still doesn't take away from my point. The 50/50 calls seemed to always end up with Miami having the ball.

2) You mean the one with Harden right? Yeah that was bullshit I agree. I think that was the refs trying to make up for something, or it was just lolrefs.

3) Yes. Fucking yes. I recall countless times where a OKC defender would play physical defense like Battier and Lebron would only to get a retarded offball foul. That's not to forgive them for playing shitty D, because they did play shitty D and just left guys open way too often, but they were practically forced at times to sag off a little unlike Battier and Lebron who could breathe down Durant's neck with ease.

4) Don't forget Miller. He's pretty good at it too. Regardless though I think because of their notoriety of excellence at taking charges, they got a few calls in their favor. And that's putting it lightly haha.

5) Durant would have made the clutch FTs, it's HIGHLY probable that if OKC played decent defense Miami would have missed a buzzer shot (Lebron was bricking shots towards the end of the game which everyone seems to forget), but I agree that an OT with 5 fouls on Durant is definitely uncertain, but to claim that it would have been a loss for OKC anyway is naive. With momentum and an awesome home crowd the Thunder could have found a way to win even with Durant in foul trouble. As for the Battier blocking foul, I actually learned about that rule you're talking about this year, and Battier STILL got the blocking foul. He wasn't there in time. Period. At most it'll fall under a 50/50 call (in that case refer to numero uno lol).

6) Westbrook attacked quite a bit, got hacked quite a bit, and should have had more than 2 fouls called for him. It's true that he only averages about 8 FTA or so, but that game specifically he shot a lot more than he normally does (which sounds crazy right? Westbrook is always shooting) so keep that in mind.

7) I think it's because of how subtle it was. It just so happened that you realize the Big 3 have scored the last like 20 points for Miami and you're like "what? how?" and then you realize they've been taking a bunch of trips to the free throw line. I personally don't think Game 3 is as great of an example as Games 2 and 4 for refball so it's more of just "another reason" instead of a "big reason". And yeah there's always refball so it's nothing new, it's just sad to see sometimes.

Point is my case is still made and the refs played quite the factor in Miami's championship this year, though not as big as Lebron and the defense of course. Lebron was unstoppable. Only Ron Artest could be crazy enough to guard him haha. Only downside to this is people will prematurely compare him to MJ which gets annoying.

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1) No, I said I would give examples. Saying "there was refball" is vague, therefore I throw out an example of the type of refball that occurred. I apologize for not stating every moment when there was a 50/50 call because that would take forever. But that still doesn't take away from my point. The 50/50 calls seemed to always end up with Miami having the ball.

2) You mean the one with Harden right? Yeah that was bullshit I agree. I think that was the refs trying to make up for something, or it was just lolrefs.

3) Yes. Fucking yes. I recall countless times where a OKC defender would play physical defense like Battier and Lebron would only to get a retarded offball foul. That's not to forgive them for playing shitty D, because they did play shitty D and just left guys open way too often, but they were practically forced at times to sag off a little unlike Battier and Lebron who could breathe down Durant's neck with ease.

4) Don't forget Miller. He's pretty good at it too. Regardless though I think because of their notoriety of excellence at taking charges, they got a few calls in their favor. And that's putting it lightly haha.

5) Durant would have made the clutch FTs, it's HIGHLY probable that if OKC played decent defense Miami would have missed a buzzer shot (Lebron was bricking shots towards the end of the game which everyone seems to forget), but I agree that an OT with 5 fouls on Durant is definitely uncertain, but to claim that it would have been a loss for OKC anyway is naive. With momentum and an awesome home crowd the Thunder could have found a way to win even with Durant in foul trouble. As for the Battier blocking foul, I actually learned about that rule you're talking about this year, and Battier STILL got the blocking foul. He wasn't there in time. Period. At most it'll fall under a 50/50 call (in that case refer to numero uno lol).

6) Westbrook attacked quite a bit, got hacked quite a bit, and should have had more than 2 fouls called for him. It's true that he only averages about 8 FTA or so, but that game specifically he shot a lot more than he normally does (which sounds crazy right? Westbrook is always shooting) so keep that in mind.

7) I think it's because of how subtle it was. It just so happened that you realize the Big 3 have scored the last like 20 points for Miami and you're like "what? how?" and then you realize they've been taking a bunch of trips to the free throw line. I personally don't think Game 3 is as great of an example as Games 2 and 4 for refball so it's more of just "another reason" instead of a "big reason". And yeah there's always refball so it's nothing new, it's just sad to see sometimes.

Point is my case is still made and the refs played quite the factor in Miami's championship this year, though not as big as Lebron and the defense of course. Lebron was unstoppable. Only Ron Artest could be crazy enough to guard him haha. Only downside to this is people will prematurely compare him to MJ which gets annoying.

1) There's a difference between "not stating every" example and not giving a single example. My claim that all 50/50 balls went OKC's way is just as backed by evidence as yours.

2) Either way, DWade got fouled for nothing. Basketball is a very quick, dynamic game, and bad calls happen.

3) No. Either provide examples or let this one go.

4) So let me see if I understand this correctly: Heat are good at drawing charges -> Heat getting charge calls is lolrefball.

5) Calling me "naive" is priceless, especially when you've yet to provide any specifics for your arguments. Here are some facts for you: during the postseason, Durant was shooting 86.4% from the free throw line, which means that if the pressure didn't affect him at all, he still would have had only a 75% chance of making both. Hardly guaranteed. Claiming that it's "HIGHLY probable" the reigning MVP would have bricked his shot and/or not gotten a foul call is baffling.

6) I was aware of the 8 FTA number, yes. And this happens all the time. Compare: Lebron shooting 3 FTs during Indiana Game 3, 4 during Game 5, and 5 during Boston Game 3. Pretending that only the Heat benefitted from such calls during the playoffs is simply a case of voluntary ignorance.

7) More generalities, more lack of specifics.

The bottom line here is that facts don't seem to be impeding the narrative you'd like to believe, where Commish $tern encouraged the refs to favor the Heat throughout the playoffs. Never mind the fact that Lebron hatred is the league's biggest money-maker; never mind that Boston and New York are bigger markets than Miami; never mind that the officiating wasn't notably poor to begin with. No, clearly the refs helped the cHeat win, and Lebron's ring* is forever tainted.

*puke*

I dunno, I don't think anybody over here really cares about Bosh. Maybe if he'd carried the Heat to their victory, people would have said that he should have stayed with the Raptors, but he was a secondary figure at best in the Heat's championship. Carter leaving Toronto was a bit before I paid much attention to basketball, but IIRC Carter was a big dick in addition to just leaving.

Bosh was actually something of an unsung hero this postseason, and his absence was strongly felt by the rest of the Heat. Most of his contributions were outside the box score- putting pressure in the paint, forcing more difficult shots / blocking drives to the lane- but he was certainly a major factor in the Heat win.

Edited by Westbrick
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lol shut up both of you

there's no point in arguing and getting worked up, especially here, on this NBA official basketball forum we're on.

but to add to anything, i actually do believe that the heat was 'destined' to win, destined being in quotes for obvious reasons

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