Lebron James

[Westbrick]

lol shut up both of you

there's no point in arguing and getting worked up, especially here, on this NBA official basketball forum we're on.

but to add to anything, i actually do believe that the heat was 'destined' to win, destined being in quotes for obvious reasons

I'm enjoying this discussion immensely- I don't know if you've ever discussed sports before, but getting overly heated is sort of a cardinal rule- and I'm sure Helios feels the same. And hey, this forum is about all things not related to Fire Emblem, which would (surprise surprise) include professional basketball. And talking about the NBA has just as much "point" as arguing about tier lists in a niche strategy RPG franchise.

So to be clear, your condescending white-knight nonsense was "complete trash," complete trash being in quotes because that's extremely generous.

EDIT: Since you seem to buy into the "Heat win was rigged lol" even more than Helios (where it's just a part of the win, a more understandable although equally wrong position), let me post this again. For emphasis.

"The bottom line here is that facts don't seem to be impeding the narrative you'd like to believe, where Commish $tern encouraged the refs to favor the Heat throughout the playoffs. Never mind the fact that Lebron hatred is the league's biggest money-maker; never mind that Boston and New York are bigger markets than Miami; never mind that the officiating wasn't notably poor to begin with. No, clearly the refs helped the cHeat win, and Lebron's ring* is forever tainted."

Edited June 23, 2012 by Westbrick

[Helios]

lol shut up both of you

there's no point in arguing and getting worked up, especially here, on this NBA official basketball forum we're on.

I'm enjoying this discussion immensely- I don't know if you've ever discussed sports before, but getting overly heated is sort of a cardinal rule- and I'm sure Helios feels the same. And hey, this forum is about all things not related to Fire Emblem, which would (surprise surprise) include professional basketball. And talking about the NBA has just as much "point" as arguing about tier lists in a niche strategy RPG franchise.

Haha I don't think anyone is getting too seriously heated about this, but like Westbrick stated this part of sports discussion. I can promise you that if we were doing this IRL we'd be getting along great before and after discussing something like this. Honestly I'm enjoying this because I didn't know people on SF actually knew sports apart from me and Fenrir, and my knowledge of sports greatly exceeds my knowledge of FE.

1) There's a difference between "not stating every" example and not giving a single example. My claim that all 50/50 balls went OKC's way is just as backed by evidence as yours.

2) Either way, DWade got fouled for nothing. Basketball is a very quick, dynamic game, and bad calls happen.

3) No. Either provide examples or let this one go.

4) So let me see if I understand this correctly: Heat are good at drawing charges -> Heat getting charge calls is lolrefball.

5) Calling me "naive" is priceless, especially when you've yet to provide any specifics for your arguments. Here are some facts for you: during the postseason, Durant was shooting 86.4% from the free throw line, which means that if the pressure didn't affect him at all, he still would have had only a 75% chance of making both. Hardly guaranteed. Claiming that it's "HIGHLY probable" the reigning MVP would have bricked his shot and/or not gotten a foul call is baffling.

6) I was aware of the 8 FTA number, yes. And this happens all the time. Compare: Lebron shooting 3 FTs during Indiana Game 3, 4 during Game 5, and 5 during Boston Game 3. Pretending that only the Heat benefitted from such calls during the playoffs is simply a case of voluntary ignorance.

7) More generalities, more lack of specifics.

The bottom line here is that facts don't seem to be impeding the narrative you'd like to believe, where Commish $tern encouraged the refs to favor the Heat throughout the playoffs. Never mind the fact that Lebron hatred is the league's biggest money-maker; never mind that Boston and New York are bigger markets than Miami; never mind that the officiating wasn't notably poor to begin with. No, clearly the refs helped the cHeat win, and Lebron's ring* is forever tainted.

1) Examples? Let's see:

• Battier knocking Fisher into Lebron, Lebron flops, refs call a foul. Please explain to me how someone as small as Fisher can knock into Lebron. It's physically impossible at that angle. This is coming off a TIMEOUT btw, so you can tell it was an orchestrated play.
• Harden at the end of the third quarter in Game 4 intentionally fouled by Wade (which should have resulted in a clear path foul) wasn't called AT ALL; Harden misses the fastbreak layup costing them two points and another possession.
• Jump ball situation at the end of game 4: Battier hits Durant's arm which doesn't allow him to get the ball, it tips to Chalmers, then we have the whole "wtf are you doing Westbrook" situation (though in reality I had no idea about that 5 second shot clock either so I can't blame him). I guess it's highly probable for someone with a 7'5" wingspan to lose to a "high flyer" like Battier right?

Though you can't blame any call as "the reason why they lost", these miscalls were game-changers.

2) It was retarded. Also, I'd have to be retarded if I didn't admit that there were some pretty terrible calls for both sides and I think we can both agree on that.

3) It's hard to describe really; I remember numerous times when Harden especially would try and either size up on someone or get a little physical with them only to get fouled for it. I think I saw it with Harden the most, but there were times with Durant, Westbrook, Sefolosha, and Ibaka/Collison as well. Perkins just sets up illegal screens lol. I think these things are more of a judgment call by the refs, and with not so great officiating you get overeager whistles.

4) No no, it's more like this: since Heat have players who are known for taking charges, they get the benefit of the doubt. So even if they actually did a blocking foul, the refs will call a charge for them because they're good at it. Kinda like how Kobe seems to always get calls even if he didn't always get fouled.

5) I do apologize for the name calling; that was a "heat of the moment" thing that I rarely do. I guess that's what happens though. However, I have given specific examples that you've either agreed with or dismissed so saying that I haven't provided any is false. Back to the point. You forget that during the 4th quarter Durant is ON FIRE, at least for the first two games of the series. Game 1 he had 17 in the 4th, Game 2 he had 16. They were also undefeated at home, and really defined home-court advantage in the playoffs. Durant would have hit those free throws and tied the game, and if OKC forced Miami to hit a jumper there's a high probability that they would have missed. If you recall the Boston series, Lebron (the MVP) was double teamed with a few seconds left in the game and was forced to pass it to Haslem, who missed. DWade missed a game-winner as well. In Game 2 specifically, during the last minutes of the game he was bricking jumpers (which everyone forgets because of how awesome he was anyway). In fact, Lebron only made ONE BASKET the entire 4th quarter of Game 2 (but hit 4 free throws). So like I said, it's highly probable that Miami would have missed the buzzer shot and they would have been in OT. Though I can't say for sure, I think with momentum their way + awesome fans and homecourt advantage OKC would have won.

6) Well you're right, it does happen, and you've admitted that you agree with me that it was bullshit he only got 3 FTAs. However, I would like to say that we're only talking about the Finals, not the entire playoffs, so you're putting words in my mouth by saying "Miami getting refballed the entire playoffs is an ignorant statement". I remember ever so clearly in a game against the Knicks were Battier was called for a foul on Melo that wasn't warranted at all, and Melo ended up going to the FT and won them the game (their only game, but still).

7) Well it was a general statement lol. I remember Lebron and Bosh driving it in a few times on guys like Collison and Ibaka and getting a foul called for them every time (some warranted some not) so it made it practically impossible to play physical D on them the way Miami played on Harden, Durant, and Westbrook. Again I don't like using Game 3 as an example because Games 2 and 4 work much better.

I'd like to reiterate that I don't like using refball as an excuse for why teams lose EVER, because as we said before it's part of the game. However, I believe the facts say that refball played a factor in the Heat's victories; it's just whether you are willing to accept it or not. Regardless though, Lebron deserved a ring this year and I'm not going to make any excuses to take that away. I'm not a Lebron hater or anything; I just thought he was arrogant but this year he looked humbled and I gained some respect for him. This ended days ago though so I don't see any point in trying to trash the Heat for their championship because nothing is going to change. I'm sure haters will find some way to still hate on Lebron (like the Kobe/Lebron 'one ring' phone call) and his receding hair line. The only thing that irritates me is when people try to compare Lebron to MJ.

[1st Mate Bob]

I played Varsity basketball in high school, but haven't really watched much NBA. I do know Lebron, though. who the hell wouldn't?

I prefer college basketball.

As for the paying off the refs so the Heat would win thing, it doesn't matter who won. If the game went the other way, people would be still be saying the refs made calls in favor of one side. That's what happens to sports fans; they try and make up bullshit excuses so that the thought of their team losing doesn't hurt so bad.

[buttmuncher.ops]

refs only get paid by david stern

it's all up to which owner's dick he's riding at the moment when he signs the check

[Westbrick]

I'll get to Helios later.

refs only get paid by david stern

it's all up to which owner's dick he's riding at the moment when he signs the check

If we're going to adopt the "$tern Rigs™" narrative, then this is absolutely right, with a small addendum: he'd rig the team that rakes in the most cash total, of which owner satisfaction is only a part. Which makes it all the more baffling why he'd rig a Heat win when Lebron hatred has fueled thousands of new fans to watch the NBA and plenty of bigger-market teams played- and lost to- Miami.

[Aethereal]

Ugh, conspiracy theories. I don't necessarily agree that lebron being hated is in the best interest of the league. A better question would be: how are the San Antonio Spurs one of the most successful teams in the league, particularly in terms of championships?

[Akagami]

Lebron has just reached Brian Scalabrine's level. 1 ring.

But Brian commanded Boston from the bench, he didn't even had to play!! He only needed his unstoppable leading abilities!! That shows how great Brian is.

[buttmuncher.ops]

i lmao

akagami's hilarious