Rate the Unit: Day 60 - Tibarn

[ZemZem]

As long as they justify their votes, what's the problem?

[MacLovin]

Tanith exists for longer than Tibarn, in chapter's where flight+decent/good combat matters.

TIbarn is locked to hawk, and is only in 2 chapters before endgame.

I request that someone who knows how SF works, run all future RTUs.

[Shadow Mir]

Tanith exists for longer than Tibarn, in chapter's where flight+decent/good combat matters.

TIbarn is locked to hawk, and is only in 2 chapters before endgame.

I request that someone who knows how SF works, run all future RTUs.

Still, I consider the fact most of Tanith's ratings were 6 through 8 preposterous.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Starwave]

Tanith exists for longer than Tibarn, in chapter's where flight+decent/good combat matters.

TIbarn is locked to hawk, and is only in 2 chapters before endgame.

I request that someone who knows how SF works, run all future RTUs.

Tanith isn't particularly good and even that, doesn't justify a 3 point discrepancy. Stop being such a linear thinker goddamnit, and see the main "point."

Let me add an addendum to your quest Sharpy. I request that everyone who's played Hard mode are the only ones who can vote in RTUs. I wouldn't mind seeing these threads run by more credible users, but sadly they don't give a fuck.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave

[MacLovin]

Still, I consider the fact most of Tanith's ratings were 6 through 8 preposterous.

Well, you'd be surprised at how flight is very much wanted right after she joins.

But, I'll let the others deal with this.

Tired, and have better things to do than deal with this RTU bullshit.

Like start another auction draft in ip chat.

[Shadow Mir]

Tanith isn't particularly good and even that, doesn't justify a 3 point discrepancy. Stop being such a linear thinker goddamnit, and see the main "point."

I agree; for Pete's sake, I only gave her a 5.25 because she doesn't have much to stand out from Sigrun (the "good growths" card fails to impress me when most of her higher growths are marginally so).

Edited July 2, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[ZemZem]

Let me add an addendum to your quest Sharpy. I request that everyone who's played Hard mode are the only ones who can vote in RTUs. I wouldn't mind seeing these threads run by more credible users, but sadly they don't give a fuck.

I took part in the FE6 RTU, and I have yet to play HM and that game. So, you know what I did? I looked up each unit accordingly, looked at HM enemy stats, looked how maps were in HM, etc. I turned out fine.

Edited July 2, 2012 by ZM456

[Starwave]

I agree; for Pete's sake, I only gave her a 5.25 because she doesn't have much to stand out from Sigrun (the "good growths" card fails to impress me when most of her higher growths are marginally so).

Welp there's nothing much we can do about it. I understand that biases naturally exist for their favored character, but at least try to have some sort of subjectivity when voting, otherwise you'll do... that.

I took part in the FE6 RTU, and I have yet to play HM and that game. So, you know what I did? I looked up each unit accordingly, looked at HM enemy stats, looked how maps were in HM, etc. I turned out fine.

Tell that to the users who've taken part in this thread and have failed to so themselves. BTW why is it so hard for people to play hard mode? I'd think that painstakingly riffling through enemy stats is more of a timesink than just playing the game.

PS: Gonna tally this in like an hour or so. Then Lucina can take over I guess. It's a special tally though. If your vote was thrown (for today only) then you can still vote again and i'll change overall tally.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave

[bottlegnomes]

Not going to tally because i'm giving a few users the option to re-vote. (not necessarily their score, but their reasoning). Bottles, Ice Sage / Tyrant Sages votes don't count until they give actual reasoning. I'm letting Sharpy's vote slide because while he may have a short vote, his reasoning isn't completely skewed. EDIT: Oh yeah the 10/10 votes get thrown out too. Lack of 2 range is one of the flimsiest arguments I have ever seen. It's relevant for many characters and on many chapters, but not for a broken unit in part IV. Boyd or w/e can strike units with Hand Axes on the enemy phase while Tibarn can't. That's just peachy. Tibarn on the other can solo several maps in part IV.

I guess you shouldn't be counting Shadykid's and PKL's either because they used my rating.

BECAUSE TURNS MEAN EVERYTHING. Haven't we beaten this horse to death already? Turncounts don't mean everything. They help yes, but obsessing over them meticulously is stupid. I'll admit In a momentary laps of memory I forgot Elincia's use in 2-E (one extra chapter basically) but that alone does not justify her getting 2-3 points higher than Tibarn. You say she's just as useful as Tibarn in part IV? Bullshit. Elincia loses the ability to even reliably damage bosses during part IVs endgame, which forces her on healing / wisp killing duty. Another thing i'd like to point out is that Tibarn is around for 7 chapters, not 3. As much as people hate to admit this, 4-E comprises of 5 skirmishes, which are basically the equivalent of chapters. The only difference being in name (save for the final boss)

And killing bosses is everything.

1x Swd Gen lvl 9 (Storm Swd):

46 HP, 38 Atk, 23 AS, 120 Hit, 68 Avo, 28 Def, 19 Res, 12 Crit, 22 Ddg

1x Dragonmaster lvl 9 (Silver Poleaxe):

48 HP, 46 Atk, 23 AS, 133 Hit, 65 Avo, 27 Def, 12 Res, 13 Crit, 19 Ddg

Two strongest enemies in 4-2, on HM. Elincia needs 25 strength to ORKO the general and 24 to ORKO the draco. She hits those numbers around level 9-10. And, again, she can get 15 uses of physic in 2-E, 15 uses of mend (if you're really trying), and 8 uses of mend in 2-P. That puts her at level 7, or 2-3 levels from taking down the strongest enemies in 4-2.

3x Tiger lvl 25 (S Strike)

60 hp, 49 atk, 22 AS, 160 hit, 61 avo, 27 def, 9 res, 13 crit, 12 cev

1x Red Dragon lvl 21 (S Strike)

71 hp, 56 atk, 12 AS, 141 hit, 39 avo, 34 def, 18 res, 9 crit, 10 cev

In 4-5 she's doing fine against Hawks, Cats, and Ravens. Tigers and Dragons are a problem, but she's one of the best dragonfoe candidates thanks to it giving her a 45 might unbreakable brave weapon. With that, she needs 25 strength to 2HKO them, thus avoiding a counter. For Tigers, she needs 27 to 4HKO (avgs around level 14), which is a bit problematic, but she's not doing well against one potential enemy type, which not many people are either.

Good luck on debating his tiering position, I'd honestly like to see you try. That thread is rock solid.

Then why are people still moving around, granted, not much.

Great. There's just one problem. You aren't Mekkah.

Just so you know, I only figured it out recently when I was cruising through gfaqs. I can't believe players are allowed to vote units based on hard mode without even fucking playing it. That is just all kinds of wrong. It does explain several things though and you have to admit this basically kills your credibility.

So Mekkah gets a free pass, but others don't why? Especially when I've played RD a lot, and he hasn't even played games like FE8-10? Nothing against you, Mekkah. I'd also like to say I find it absolutely absurd that you just happened to stumble upon a two month old post in time for this rating, where I just happen to disagree with you.

Wow what a fucking leap. I never suggested anything of the sort. It's not my problem if Tibarn is over unstransfered Jill (I personally think u-T jill is a touch overrated.) Users are who are 100X more credible than you or I will EVER be poured blood and tears into make that thread what is today. If you're going to disregard because of one thing you don't agree with than you should sod off.

EDIT: Tibarn is ahead of her by 1 position so they're more or less equal.

You're using the tier list to say Tibarn better than Elincia to justify him getting a higher score. It also says he's better than Jill, so by your logic, he should have a higher score than her, which would put him above all the people I mentioned. Even if, as you're saying now, they are about the same, that means he should be getting a similar score, which would still put him above all those people. Not that hard a concept.

This. This right here is why I will never take you seriously. Elincia can double every enemy in the game and even quad many of them. Which is great until you realize she caps her strength at 30. She can't even touch most of the bosses and has trouble taking on some of the sturdier enemies. This is a fact. She's on strict healing duty come 4-E-3. You would have known that if you actually played RD, but you didn't. You're talking about of your ass.

And where does this "double availability" come from? She's useless in her intro chapter, and has 2-E and all of part IV, which basically means she has 1 more chapter than Tibarn.\\

Wow, 45 attack with quadding everything is so terrible. See above. Plus that, in final, the strongest enemies, barring dragons (though again, she's a good candidate for dragonfoe) are generals with 52 HP and 32 def. That means if she has max strength she can ORKO them, except the cover ones. Again, real bad.

I know if you're rushing the chapters, she's not going to have these levels, but this isn't a strictly LTC RTU. Playing reasonably (like waiting around in 2-E because why not), she doesn't really have a problem with a lot of this.

So her healing in 2-P, and chip damage, are being ignored now because it's convenient for you? It's still 5 chapters vs 3 chapters.

Oh, it's a goddamn tragedy that I want a little objectivity in these threads instead of people putting their own biases in the way (and some actively trying to mess with ratings to balance things out.) Hard mode or no-

Read the damn rules yo

Tibarn is great in the Hawk Army chapters, and undeniably great during the endgame too. Regardless of how well you raise your other units, there isn't a single unit that can compare to him in terms of strength. Not the god Haar and not even the goddess Titania.

Thing is, you're making bullshit assumptions. IMO, Tibarn deserves a 5-7, depending on how much you're valuing availability. Nothing in my vote barring the -bias was to even out the stupidly high scores. As for Haar and Tits, I'd argue they can compare, and are actually better than him in combat. His attack is largely overkill and lacks 1-2 range. They have offense that's not appreciably worse and have 1-2 range, on top of significantly better availability.

Tell that to the users who've taken part in this thread and have failed to so themselves. BTW why is it so hard for people to play hard mode? I'd think that painstakingly riffling through enemy stats is more of a timesink than just playing the game.

And you know I haven't done this how? Because you disagree with a couple of my rating?

As for my redone rating, which is still bullshit, Tibarn is great while he's around, but he's barely around. He's got absurd offense, but no 1-2 range, which is a downer. His move and durability are great, but even he has to worry about bowguns. Pavise is nice, but unreliable. He's great for while he's around, but there are other characters who are around longer and do most stuff not much worse than he does and bring other things to the table. 5/10 -bias because people are ridiculous 4/10

Edited July 2, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Starwave]

Yeah i'll accept that.

And you know I haven't done this how? Because you disagree with a couple of my rating?

Because you just admitted in that one thread that you've never played HM ... unless i'm misconstruing your post.

Oh and tallying.

EDIT:

Tibarn: 7.21!

Serenforest RTU threads: I can't believe how incredible dumb these threads are, like rock hard stupid. Nothing more than a glorified popularity contest, and the occasional rudimentary argument over incessant things. Oh and if a character is sexy people find somehow find it possible to overlook their flaws and overscore them. Now I see why users like T_M stopped rating in these threads, because there's just no fucking point. I'm not quitting these threads or anything (more liking kicking myself repeatedly)

I'm beside myself with laughter over Naesala beating Tibarn, though that could be due to fact nobody bothered to vote for him.

PS: I'm not the ideal user!!!

PPS: I'm willing to continue hosting these threads if Lucina is still on break or w/e.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave

[bottlegnomes]

Yeah i'll accept that.

[/size][/color]

Because you just admitted in that one thread that you've never played HM ... unless i'm misconstruing your post.

Oh and tallying.

Then this is settled?

Anyway, I think you are. I was referring to this post:

I took part in the FE6 RTU, and I have yet to play HM and that game. So, you know what I did? I looked up each unit accordingly, looked at HM enemy stats, looked how maps were in HM, etc. I turned out fine.

Like ZM with FE6 HM, I haven't actually played RD HM, but I am familiar enough with RD and have gone through enough numbers and read enough debates to have a pretty solid understanding of how units perform.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Tanith exists for longer than Tibarn, in chapter's where flight+decent/good combat matters.

TIbarn is locked to hawk, and is only in 2 chapters before endgame.

I request that someone who knows how SF works, run all future RTUs.

I would if i was really arsed...Even though i find RTUs seriously fun, running them is a bit of a chore...

As for "HM ONLY" why should that even be a thing? It should be about someone who knows how just about every unit turns out on average. I still havent received an answer as to why hard mode needs to be the standard anyway.

[bottlegnomes]

Tradition. From the tier lists, HM is assumed, because they're supposed to help people with the highest difficulty. The theory is that if a character helps in a higher difficulty, they'll help just as much, possibly more, on lower difficulties.

[Ciarre]

That's not necessarily true. I'd say that Mia, for example, is better in HM than she is in NM.

[Jimmy_Smith]

I should have vote for Neasala.(I will give around 5.0+0.5 bias)

Tibarn's below Naesala is madness.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Jimmy_Smith

[bottlegnomes]

That's not necessarily true. I'd say that Mia, for example, is better in HM than she is in NM.

Some people's advantages become more exaggerated in harder difficulties, but they're still capable of doing the same in the lower difficulties. Basically, HM exaggerates units' strengths and weaknesses. I get what you're saying, and it's not perfect, but that's the idea behind it.

[Darros]

Tibarn's below Naesala is madness.

Complete madness. The only thing Naesala has over Tibarn is a desert chapter (which is conditional, anyway!). And even then he doesn't DESTROY EVERYTHING in it.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Knuckles

[Shadow Mir]

Welp there's nothing much we can do about it. I understand that biases naturally exist for their favored character, but at least try to have some sort of subjectivity when voting, otherwise you'll do... that.

[/size][/color]

BTW why is it so hard for people to play hard mode? I'd think that painstakingly riffling through enemy stats is more of a timesink than just playing the game.

Well, I have to agree there; them's the breaks.

That's... a question that I can't really come up with a good answer to. It might have something to do with hard mode in this game ruining the usability of a lot of units.

[Shotguner159]

The royals will always be better than the vast majority of. You thinking he's pointless irrelevant. The fact that he's the best combat unit will always make him worth using over any other character in the game. Stop being biased.

Tanith:

Try again with your vote please.

Without bias Tibarn gets a 5/10, and Tanith gets a 6/10. I factor in my bias before I post my votes. I value Tanith's 2 extra chapters, 2-range and the desert 1 point over Tibarn being unstoppable whenever he's around. I just like Tanith, and dislike Tibarn.And when I check the rules it does state I have to show my bias explicitly. Sorry.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Shotguner159

[Ema Skye]

whoo boy

gonna tally this now

haven't read through all the votes yet, so idk if I'll have to throw any out. From the sounds of it, it might be necessary.

Edit: Good lord this madness >.<

Edited July 2, 2012 by Lucina

[Starwave]

Without bias Tibarn gets a 5/10, and Tanith gets a 6/10. I factor in my bias before I post my votes. I value Tanith's 2 extra chapters, 2-range and the desert 1 point over Tibarn being unstoppable whenever he's around. I just like Tanith, and dislike Tibarn.And when I check the rules it does state I have to show my bias explicitly. Sorry.

Cool except you didn't mention bias points in EITHER of your votes (Tibarn / Tanith, you just straight up) and 2-range being good on a non-Ike swordy? Are you seriousy?!? Her 2 range is painfully mediocre at best. Seriously ranged arguments are among the worst i've seen; it's just an excuse to overrate / underrate characters. Her 2 extra chapters are irrelevant, they can easily be completed without her (and she has to play catch up).

Edit: Missed your last sentence. At least you admitted your mistake (it's fishy, but i'll buy it for now.)

Lucina, the votes already been tallied. Feel free and take over for me lol.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave

[Shotguner159]

Ranged arguments are among the worst i've seen; it's just an excuse to overrate / underrate characters.

She can still contribute in those chapters, and 2-Range on one range enemies is always good, as it means they don't take a counter-attack, and makes them less likely to be attacked by 2-range enemies on the EP when there are units that can't counter-attack them. At least, that's what I usually use 2-range for, as most of the weapons for it are either terrible, or are really rare.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Shotguner159

[Starwave]

When you take into account the resources you need to put into her (tons of BEXP) i'd say you actually end up being set back in optimal play. 2 range "SWORD" weapons also means that you're leaving yourself open on the enemy phase if you fail to kill them (and you will for the most part, Tanith isn't strong). Furthermore, Tanith has fucking Canto(and TIbarn by extension), so why does it matter if she has 2 range, 9 times out of 10 she's not going to use her shitty Storm / Tempest blade anyway!

Really, you're trying to build a problem that doesn't really matter in reality (lack of 2 range) and are overrating 2 range options for a Peg knight swordy (ugh). It's as simple as that. Whatever though, our lord and savior decided to count your vote anyway so it's pointless to keep arguing.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave

[Sunwoo]

Starwave, get off your high horse. Lucina puts you in charge of the thread for three days, and now you're going around running your mouth off at anyone who so much as dares to disagree with you?

First of all, your opinion is not objective either. Everyone's opinion here is, in a way, subjective. Some people really value that 1-2 range. Some people really like that overkill offense. Others care a bit more about availability. And others want a little mix of all these variables. Just because you think a person's vote is "garbage", doesn't mean it is. Lucina tallied up Tibarn, as he already said he would before he left. So stop whining. RTUs aren't even that important anyway. It's not worth getting so worked up over.

Also, you've been acting quite arrogant for someone who's only been here for slightly over a month. You may think you know a lot about FE10, and maybe you do. But I'm sure there are other people on this site who know better than you. And no one wants to listen to someone else prattle on like a whiny "know-it-all". Come back down to Earth.

[Starwave]

I guess kinda do come across as the type of person to see themselves as superior, I assure you that's not the case. I've posted several times that there are users on this site that are 10X-100X more credible than I am. I just say what's on my mind, I won't limit myself because i'm not a "senior" here. I fail to see how speaking your mind = being a know it all. I'm not the type of person to go with the "flow" so its not even an option for me. And besides i've been lurking on SF for ages. Also, i'd like to point out that i've been running my mouth "before" I was put in charge of the RTU thread; that hasn't changed.

That said I don't have a low self esteem. I just have low self esteem for pretty much everyone else.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Starwave