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Eltoshen

Gender in Society

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Just curious where people stand when it comes to gender roles, oppression, and heteronormative behavior.

I'm at the point where I'm under the impression that most people are clutching onto their ignorance because accepting the truth of things would be an inconvenience to their lives, or possibly make them aware of things they'd rather not be aware of. It's quite depressing, and rather hurtful to those who are continually set in their place daily by the world's shit society.

That, and the whole world being run off consumerism makes life rather boring. Make money, spend it, repeat, but that's another story.

Luckily, I have people I care about in my life so I'm not exactly jumping ship yet. :) Before this turns into a livejournal entry, share opinions. I'm always curious how people live in light of these issues.

Edited by Eltoshen

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Can you explain why you feel people are "clutching onto their ignorance?" If I use my own monkeysphere as an example, I'd be under the impression that the world has become extremely accepting of women taking the roles of men, and vice versa. However, I know my family's really cool and progressive, and so is my work place, and that the world doesn't see things the way my family/workplace does.

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I dunno. I'm all for economic equality of the sexes, but I personally cannot see a social impartiality. Things such as chivalry would seem entirely out of place. I believe the phrase "chivalry is dead" is a direct result of the closing of the gap between men and women.

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I wish I could take the time to type a well thought-out troll post...but I can't.

Gender roles shouldn't exist. Although men and women differ in a number of ways, both genders can assume nearly any role and succeed. We are equal.

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Whilst men and women have their differences, I feel that society's leaning more towards equal rights and opportunities. Tolerance towards those who don't feel they fit either description is also improving but has a long way to go. I can only hope that discrimination towards anyone can diminish.

Nowadays, anyone can apply to medical schools in the UK... a long time ago it was only wealthy men. The NHS are even putting transgender as a choice in their surveys and paperwork, another step forward.

Edited by Shin Chan

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Blessthischild.png

Funny thing really...

I mean kids think simply... and yet sometimes they give us the answers we've been looking for all along. I know my post is really weighing heavily on that image... but I pretty much felt that it was relevant to a topic like this...

As it's relevant that gender roles tend to be smacked into our faces at a very early age.

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I feel people should be able to have a chance to succeed in a field they love and wish to be in as long as they have what it takes, regardless of what they're born as. If the person's good at doing whatever they're doing and expresses a desire to do it (provided that it isn't criminal activities they wish to partake upon) there should be no reason at all that they should be barred from it due to circumstances they had no control over (or circumstances they had a say in but should not affect their eligibility in said field).

While there's still a level of discrimination existent in society (wage gaps, glass ceiling, etc), it has come a long way, at least where I live currently. Where I was born, while people do have legal equality, the society itself is still very discriminatory, especially in less-developed areas of the country.

Oh hey that's the tumblr I linked chat @ Rey

I like that kid.

Edited by Zhuge Liang

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Although the world is moving to make the world fair for both genders, there are certain unspoken stereotypes and natural human thinking that unintentionally weigh one gender over the other.

For example, most people would feel safer if a man was piloting an aeroplane than a woman. People feel safer leaving their kids with a woman when it comes to a nursery. Maybe not all the time, but there are times when humans would rather have someone else doing the job. There's always going to be a sense of unbalance somewhere. By saying men and women have equal rights and social standing...that's not exactly true on a mental level. It's only an appearance to issue the idea that they're equal when in reality, it's a load of pros and cons that reach equilibrium collectively.

Also, and I'm not entirely sure if this fits in with this discussion, but I seriously worry about the women who find genuine amusement in reading Twilight and/or 50 Shades of Grey.

Edited by Crazy Foxie

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Also, and I'm not entirely sure if this fits in with this discussion, but I seriously worry about the women who find genuine amusement in reading Twilight and/or 50 Shades of Grey.

Dunno what 50 shades of Grey is, but I definitely agree with you on Twilight. I don't see how women actually enjoy a book that portraying the female lead as utterly useless, horribly dependent on her boyfriend (who's not even a good boyfriend) and jumps off a damn cliff when he leaves her instead of doing something useful with her life. Like getting a real job.

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Although the world is moving to make the world fair for both genders, there are certain unspoken stereotypes and natural human thinking that unintentionally weigh one gender over the other.

For example, most people would feel safer if a man was piloting an aeroplane than a woman. People feel safer leaving their kids with a woman when it comes to a nursery. Maybe not all the time, but there are times when humans would rather have someone else doing the job. There's always going to be a sense of unbalance somewhere. By saying men and women have equal rights and social standing...that's not exactly true on a mental level. It's only an appearance to issue the idea that they're equal when in reality, it's a load of pros and cons that reach equilibrium collectively.

Also, and I'm not entirely sure if this fits in with this discussion, but I seriously worry about the women who find genuine amusement in reading Twilight and/or 50 Shades of Grey.

Is it sexist of me to think women genuinely are better caretakers? Generally speaking, of course.

Edited by Phoenix Wright

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Is it sexist of me to think women genuinely are better caretakers? Generally speaking, of course.

Probably not, as there's a lot of biology that comes with some of these sterotypes, like how women are more maternal and better caretakers, so a lot of these things people have issue with will likely stay around for some time.

In a couple decades though, it'll likely end up going away.

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Is it sexist of me to think women genuinely are better caretakers? Generally speaking, of course.

I think when dealing with any praise of a historically less privileged group, it is not sexist (alternatively, racist, xenophobic etc. in other instances) unless you go very far in it (like stating women are better at everything and men are pathetic scum, and trust me, there are plenty of ladies who hold even such views).

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Gender roles shouldn't exist. Although men and women differ in a number of ways, both genders can assume nearly any role and succeed. We are equal.

I agree with this, though might I add to mine that as far as I'm concerned the differences are either biological or pretty-much-meaningless stats on a spreadsheet that we'd be better off ignoring for the sake of the world.

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Blessthischild.png

Some girls like both, some boys like both~

Eeeeeeeewwwwwwww pink

And yes, I also agree that the biases can be really really annoying. As long as we've been moving on so far, though, then I can hope things can continue to be like that. I kinda doubt we'd ever let go of those biases 100% and idk why I feel that way, but I at least hope it can stick to being that way =3

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It sort of depends on which society. Different gender roles in different cultures. In terms of my home country, the U.S., there's a lot going on. Women don't make as much as men while doing the same job, women serving on the front lines is being debated, blah blah blah.

I'm not minimizing these issues, but I can't afford to list them all. Anyway, men have the role in society of doing the work, only ones doing physical labor, playing sports, and are almost always the super-rich ones. Women, however, are often portrayed as weaker in society, not having to do physical labor, often stay at home, or doing some work with a computer somewhere. these things I have just explained are about as sexist and stereotypical as you can get. Women have gained more opportunity in the work force, and are in the military and things like that, but also have to deal with the pre-stated issues. My personal belief i that women should gain equal rights as men, and are in the process of doing so. However, this must go both ways. if women want to serve on the front lines, they should be prepared to have increased mortality rates. If a woman doesn't make as much as a man doing the same job, it should not be immediately stated that it is because she is a woman, but it is also possible that the man does a better job, and vice versa. If women want to be allowed to participate in the same ativities as men (american football) and they get cut, ii may also be because they aren't as skilled, not because they are female. Whether that is or isn't the case, people musn't jump to conclusion. Also, men should be allowed to participate in women's activities if they wish. At my middle school, field hockey was girls only. I didn't want to play, and neither did most other boys, but integration shouldn't just go one way. However, It may have been cancelled due to a lack of popularity, and that would be understandable.

I'm separating this issue from the others because i personally see it as most important. Assault. Assault is wrong. Period. however, if a man gets into a fight with another man, it isn't necessarily frowned upon, depending on the circumstances. If a man gets into a fight with a woman, he is viewed as bad. This is bad in both conditions, but if a woman attacks a man, and a man defends himself, it seems almost as if the man would be frowned upon moreso than the woman, or at leas more than they would be if they defended themself from a man, or if a woman defended themself from a woman. And, yes, aas previously stated, in our new-forming society, chivalry may indeed die.

The examples I used have not actually happened, nor do I think they would, but they are certainly possible.

Edited by I don't play for turns

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Okay, Biological differences, in general:

Men have more upper-body strength while women have lower centers of gravity.

Women give birth to children

There are undoubtedly more subtle differences between Men and Women, but outside of the most basic Biological ones, how much is really biological and how much is cultural?

That is the true question, how does society shape gender roles? Well, extremely to be completely blunt. Almost every society on Earth in today's time is a patriarchy, not a matriarchy. This arose out of men generally being the stronger ones, the ones tending the fields and travelling while women tended to raising children as societies began to develop. Oddly, historical evidence shows that before the transition from hunter-gatherer and farmer to the birth of cities, women tended to be in control of these small units of people. This changed as cities developed and men began exploiting their biologically superior strength. They gained power for the city through war, and became more regarded as a result. How societies changed after this most basic aspect differ. To use Ancient Greece as an example, Women were generally seen as equals in Sparta even if they never fought. They were still as 'patriotic' or sponsored their city as any man, and took part in many of the same rituals. Athens on the other hand treated women as indentured servants only good for popping out babies and being semen receptacles. Women were not even educated in Athens, they had a different accent from Athenian Men because of the prejudice.

In today's society, we have taken a lot of steps away from the gender inequalities of the past. This varies from country to country. Japan still has many, many issues with gender inequality and societal roles. I can cite two examples for this: upon getting married women are expected to immediately quit their jobs and be completely subservient to their husbands, the other is how women that are groped in public are expected to not react--making a scene or actually confronting the pervert is seen as disobedient or dishonorable. Neither of these are good things.

The United States has different ones. Women are generally kept out of the significant positions of power. This is significant in any sort of religious institution, almost all of which were set up anywhere from 1500 to 100 years prior. The issue with American Nuns is at the forefront, where the Catholic Nuns in the United States want a discussion about the social issues that are causing problems in the US that they deal with on a daily basis--the Catholic Church sees this as blasphemy and wants them only to damn homosexual marriage and abortion, and women are kept out of any power in the Catholic Church. Women are not usually made CEOs or heads of any sort of large business for some reason, and the reduction of pay is always an issue. There are a lot of steps away from the 1950s and utter repression of women during that era (Women's Magazines spouting how the best woman shuts up and just serves her husband like a slave, always smiling and never asking any questions. I would point out that these magazines were all written by men), but more steps need to be taken. Given the political climate in the US, however, I find it unlikely that this will ever happen.

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It can be safe to say what is expected of men and women can be derived from the media, of course, and popular culture.

The whole idea of machoman, femme fatale, pinup girl... Our society emphasizes power and sexuality over brains, quite simply. And the crippling idea that real men don't shed tears or show emotion is based off the idea that doing so is weak. It just so happens that women are more prone to showing emotion because that is what is expected of them.

In essence, Western society, to say the least, puts down men who share characteristics or qualities, such as emotion and dress, because that's what society teaches. Women are inferior, hence the term fag itself and the idea that 'gay' is an insult and derogatorized into describing 'eww' situations. Explains the mindset behind most homophobes, to say the least, and the ones who hide behind the institution of Christianity to justify their beliefs.

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Dunno what 50 shades of Grey is, but I definitely agree with you on Twilight. I don't see how women actually enjoy a book that portraying the female lead as utterly useless, horribly dependent on her boyfriend (who's not even a good boyfriend) and jumps off a damn cliff when he leaves her instead of doing something useful with her life. Like getting a real job.

Don't quote me on "50 shades of grey", but I read an article on it recently. Apparently, it started off as a fanfic of Twilight where "Edward" is a wealthy CEO and "Bella" is his hired sex slave, but it was turned into a real book.

Anyway, I think that we've definitely made a lot of improvements in closing the "gender gap", but we still have a ways to go. Not too long ago, I had an argument with another user on this forum (eclipse would know what and who I'm talking about) over a viewpoint that he didn't realize could be taken as being insulting. Pretty much, eclipse and I had to tell him why an "overbearing housemother older-sister figure" is not a complimentary portrayal of a woman, especially one whom he KNOWS is nothing like that.

Also, I've noticed that romance novels (as little as I read them) are the most glaring offenders of gender inequalities. No matter where you go. If I had a dime for every, "troubled, 'experienced' handsome bad boy" who gets together with the "innocent, naive, virgin good girl" ...

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teehee This is gonna be an amusing thread. >w>

Any who.

Just depends how you're raised and what you observe in your surroundings. There's a reason why both genders gravitate toward gender "appropriate" things. It's just the way we were raised. After that it's up to the individual to decide what is and is not appropriate. Then again social pressures are a thing. I feel like I'm rambling on so whatevs.

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Parents have a say in what children play with. My dad's ideas of toys for me when I was a kid were one of those pre-programmed toy computers with all sorts of word games and a construct-your-own set where you drop marbles from the top and watch them go through your creation before hitting the bottom. Mom got me dolls. Guess whose house I had more fun in?

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In this documentary by by Norwegian comedian Harald Eia ; Eia reaches a very different conclusion then what most of you have on the role of biology in gender roles . I'd like to hear I everyone's opinion on it . Also on the subject of inequality manwomenmyth has posted a few documentaries on the subject of Misandry in current western society..

Edited by The_Purple_Knight

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Something with the words "terrible opinions".

The first linked video is NSFW. Secondly, the comments below said video are hilarious.

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Watch the first three minutes of the video carefully. There's something there that conflicts with this site's ToS.

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