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I'll leave the answers to other people (I just can't gather my thoughts ATM) but this is the right board, most of the complaints about that center around FE10.

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I think people think him a Sue because he pretty much just kicks everyones ass in this game and doesnt have any real further character development in FE10. I give him a free pass because FE9 happened and we already got to know him. We already saw his character development in FE9. Also, people think of Ike and his crew as the Spotlight Stealing Squad because the GMs more or less sorta take over the plot. Plus Ike is the guy that has to deliver the final blow to the final boss. Since i find Micaiah much more insufferable when it comes to Sue and bad writing, i didnt pay attention to Ike's alleged Sueness.

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He wasn't a Gary Stu in 9, because there he started out average and had character development. In FE10, when he shows up he's already WTFamazing, takes over the entire plot and is the only one who can kill the final boss. Plus, he has no flaws in FE10 at all.

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They seem to fail to overlook the lack of development of almost all characters in RD. We already knew Ike from PoR, and he was no less developed than most other characters in RD, so I personally had no trouble with it.

Edited by I don't play for turns

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Ike already got a game more or less to himself, he doesn't need another one. And de-powering him in RD would've been a terrible idea.

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He's sword-locked in a game where the majority of enemies wield lances He's inexperienced as a leader (which is why Gatrie and Shinon abandon the mercs after Greil kicks the bucket), he makes decisions without thinking (Chapter 2)... There's two to start off with!

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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He's sword-locked in a game where the majority of enemies wield lances He's inexperienced as a leader (which is why Gatrie and Shinon abandon the mercs after Greil kicks the bucket),

Temporary flaw. Only exists to make him look better later on.

he makes decisions without thinking (Chapter 2)... There's two to start off with!

No, he went to help Mist and Rolf because he just cares *so damn much* about his friends and family.

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No, he went to help Mist and Rolf because he just cares *so damn much* about his friends and family.

And got himself reprimanded for it, by Greil, no less.

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Temporary flaw. Only exists to make him look better later on.

Wouldn't that logic would work on any protagonist who overcomes a weakness?

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They seem to fail to overlook the lack of development of almost all characters in RD. We already knew Ike from PoR, and he was no less developed than most other characters in RD, so I personally had no trouble with it.

certainly this. besides Micaiah, Sothe, and Elincia, there wasn't really any character development at all, which is relevant considering the size of the cast in this game.

besides, the point of the game wasn't so much on the characters themselves, but on the world and the war. this wasn't a tale about ike and his mercenaries or micaiah and the dawn brigade. it was about the nations just fighting each other and why it was stupid for them to do so, hence the multiple viewpoints.

and about Ike delivering the final blow. yes he did, but Micaiah was about as essential to that event as Ike was.

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If FE10 Ike existed in a void, I'd definitely say that he's a Gary Stu. He definitely comes off that way. But since FE9 exists and was a direct predecessor to FE10, I have to look at Ike as a whole in both games. The thing is, in PoR, Ike grew up. He started off as an inexperienced newbie mercenary, who is forced into playing a role in the future of his world.

I'd say that PoR Ike has his faults. Contrast his tolerance and acceptance of laguz with his hatred for the nobility (as a whole, since it seems like the few nobles he does like are the exception rather than the rule). He doesn't always - think - his actions through clearly and seems to have a bit of a "disdain" for the rules. He's loyal to a fault (and might have gotten himself killed over it in Begnion).

Also, I think Shinon and Gatrie leaving him in PoR does make him less Gary Stu. If he really was such a Gary Stu in PoR, then Shinon and Gatrie would probably have still stuck with him. Just showed that not everyone in-universe likes Ike. (And still doesn't.) The way he kept on pursuing revenge on the Black Knight should also be a "flaw". I mean, I understand he wants to avenge his father. But revenge is ... well, a terrible thing. It clouds your mind and fuels you with hatred. If Ike was a Gary Stu, then his motivation to kill the Black Knight would have been something more like, "because you are helping to bring about a dark age to Tellius, and you must be stopped" with no mention of "petty revenge".

That said, I do think FE10 Ike grew up a - bit - too much. But taking him and PoR Ike together into consideration, I have to say he's not a Gary Stu as a whole.

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What are his flaws in FE9 again?

He was a green boy when he actually took command of the company and suffered some potshots because of it? Two of the company's long runners abandoned him initially? He had to coax them to come back at different points of the game. The fact that Rolf and Astrid are the ones who bring those two back to the company speak a great deal about Ike's flaws in the eyes of those two characters. Not only that, Ike was a bit base and had to get chewed out a few times in FE9 in order to "get it". The biggest point was his whole meeting with Sanaki.

All of that led to character development. He still has the latter flaw in FE10. (being a bit base at times) We see him rely almost entirely on Soren for most of the battle plans with the LA. It wasnt for a while that he finally started formulating some plans of his own. Sadly, this didnt lead to character development because FE10 was badly written in the latter parts of the plot. :(:

besides Micaiah, Sothe, and Elincia, there wasn't really any character development at all,

Sothe got character development? Where? Micaiah didnt get much either. The only thing she learned is "hiding isnt the answer to my problems." Her other problems? Nah...not touched on. Elincia, Skrimir, and Pelleas got the most character development in the game. (Naesala got some too.) I chalk it up to bad writing. Micaiah wouldnt be a Sue if the writing wasnt so...half-assed. (so much potential there...wasted....)

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So let me get this straight, when some people played through the game they were like " Man fuck this guy he's too cool?"

He can't counter ranged weapons until 3-11. So there's that. He isn't even your best unit until part 4,(Haar) and even then you've got some people who you could say are better.(Tibarn, Nailah, Cain etc.)

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Uh Ike can use wind edges once the caravan shows up in 3-2 for 1-2 range and a bunch of people did the math to show that he does as much as the hand axe guys. He's got skill and strength injected directly into his biceps. But of course people don't call him a Gary Stu over gameplay performance because he's promotion locked and he's got Haar and Titania around. It's just that, plot-wise, they never really paint Ike as being wrong about anything. While the game sets up Micaiah to be hated for her actions, everyone fawns on Ike EXCEPT Micaiah. When FE10 is treated in a vacuum, virtually all the characters are disappointingly flat and Ike is no exception. The most enjoyable characters are Elincia, Pelleas, Skrimir, and Naesala, because they are the ones who still grow in some capacity. Everyone else has their mind made up and don't care to change their perspectives.

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I never understood how Ike was a Gary Stu, because there was always at least one party opposing him in both games. Whatever fame he got in FE10 was well deserved, because of the amount of shit he had to take in FE9.

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I still think the return of Ike in FE10 is awesome! I love the fact that he is still a badass. If they would have used some sucky reason like the godess strips him off his powers I would have complained....

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I never understood how Ike was a Gary Stu, because there was always at least one party opposing him in both games. Whatever fame he got in FE10 was well deserved, because of the amount of shit he had to take in FE9.

I couldn't have said this better myself

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There's the way he can't lose. Ever. Even when he's an enemy unit. When you beat Micaiah in 3-7 she says "My wounds... They're nothing! They're nothing compared to what my people have suffered! We can't lose! We'll never give up!". When you beat Ike in 3-13 it goes:

Ike: They're holding out longer than I expected.

Titania: Ike! Our forces on the western wall broke through the Daein defenses! They're requesting reinforcements. We should move our forces to the breach.

Ike: All right. I just hope we're able to keep Micaiah from doing anything rash. All units, to the western wall!

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He was a green boy when he actually took command of the company and suffered some potshots because of it? Two of the company's long runners abandoned him initially? He had to coax them to come back at different points of the game. The fact that Rolf and Astrid are the ones who bring those two back to the company speak a great deal about Ike's flaws in the eyes of those two characters. Not only that, Ike was a bit base and had to get chewed out a few times in FE9 in order to "get it". The biggest point was his whole meeting with Sanaki.

All of that led to character development. He still has the latter flaw in FE10. (being a bit base at times) We see him rely almost entirely on Soren for most of the battle plans with the LA. It wasnt for a while that he finally started formulating some plans of his own. Sadly, this didnt lead to character development because FE10 was badly written in the latter parts of the plot. :(:

Except that despite these "flaws", nothing bad ever actually comes of it. Sanaki forgives him for speaking out of turn, because he's just sticking up for his friends because shucks darn he's such a nice guy. It's like how in Twilight, Bella being "clumsy" is a flaw that only serves to make her more endearing, to give male characters a opportunity to catch her when she trips, and it's a flaw that even gets taken away later on. In the same way, Ike being blunt and outspoken only serves to make him more likeable. When he's outspoken, he's always criticising and telling off characters who deserve it, it's always to show off just what a great and caring dude he is, that he doesn't care about petty things like birth and rank. And he's NEVER punished for it. Okay, he gets told off for it. So we're "told" that this outspokenness and his lack of experience are flaws, but they never actually serve to hinder him in any way: in fact, they are used to show how awesome he is.

And what about all the ridiculously awesome stuff Ike does? Everyone loves and respects Ike by the end. Even Gatrie and Shinon willingly follow the "greenhorn" once they give him a chance. Sanaki gives him an entire army. Ike has a unique fighting style that's super awesome and powerful. He has a unique god-blessed super powerful sword that is the only thing that can harm the villain. Before he's 20, he's one of the greatest swordsmen in the world, and one of the most accomplished and respected military leaders in the world, admired by beorc and laguz together.

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Well I don't think Ike is much of a Gary-Stu. But he is OVERPOWERED. The fact that he

killed the Black Knight twice AND a Goddess is a bitty witty overwhelming. But he trained

and trained. I guess he's not so bad. Now that Stupid Micaihah <---(wrong)

should be the one your tagging. I hate her guts. I can't believe

she has so many powers that no one else has. Like, Yune, the Daein Army,

and I even think the Black Knight is on Micaihah's SIDE. <----(Still Wrong)

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Except that despite these "flaws", nothing bad ever actually comes of it. Sanaki forgives him for speaking out of turn, because he's just sticking up for his friends because shucks darn he's such a nice guy. It's like how in Twilight, Bella being "clumsy" is a flaw that only serves to make her more endearing, to give male characters a opportunity to catch her when she trips, and it's a flaw that even gets taken away later on. In the same way, Ike being blunt and outspoken only serves to make him more likeable. When he's outspoken, he's always criticising and telling off characters who deserve it, it's always to show off just what a great and caring dude he is, that he doesn't care about petty things like birth and rank. And he's NEVER punished for it. Okay, he gets told off for it. So we're "told" that this outspokenness and his lack of experience are flaws, but they never actually serve to hinder him in any way: in fact, they are used to show how awesome he is.

Losing Shinon and Gatrie is a serious blow. You could argue that Ike's trusting nature is what allows Nasir to steal the Fire Emblem (a major consequence). And although the game doesn't treat it as a flaw, Ike's quest for revenge against the Black Knight can have terrible consequences (by engaging the Black Knight in C11 or C24). But I completely disagree with your assesment of Ike's unthinking bluntness. It is not just an endearing character flaw. Sanaki shows some character herself by forgiving Ike's outburst in C14. But it is made very clear to Ike in C14 that, because Elincia and the fate of Crimea depend on Sanaki's mercy, his outburst was the wrong thing to do - and any future outbursts could lead to terrible consequences. Nobody applauds Ike for this particular outburst. So Ike reforms his behavior and never actually suffers consequences for this character flaw. That doesn't make the flaw (clearly identified as such in C14) any less real, it just demonstrates character growth.

Beyond Ike's character flaws (which, indeed, are few), Ike makes personal growth in his combat skills (aided by Stefan and his Titania/Lethe supports) and leadership ability (aided heavily by Soren, Titania, and Nasir). Ike's growth in both of these dimensions is evident throughout the game. It's easy to understate this, but few video game stories manage to pull this off. Ike believably grows in competence and confidence throughout FE9.

And what about all the ridiculously awesome stuff Ike does? Everyone loves and respects Ike by the end. Even Gatrie and Shinon willingly follow the "greenhorn" once they give him a chance. Sanaki gives him an entire army. Ike has a unique fighting style that's super awesome and powerful. He has a unique god-blessed super powerful sword that is the only thing that can harm the villain. Before he's 20, he's one of the greatest swordsmen in the world, and one of the most accomplished and respected military leaders in the world, admired by beorc and laguz together.

What point are you trying to make? Ike is a fictional hero. Uncanny leadership ability and personal talent are ubiquitus amoungst fictional heros (even psuedo-historic fictional heros like Gilgamesh, Hector, and Odysseus). One can hardly find a piece of fiction without such heros. But Ike, like most fictional heros, needs to make some personal growth to overcome the obstacles in his story. This makes him an interesting character (in FE9).

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There's the way he can't lose. Ever. Even when he's an enemy unit. When you beat Micaiah in 3-7 she says "My wounds... They're nothing! They're nothing compared to what my people have suffered! We can't lose! We'll never give up!". When you beat Ike in 3-13 it goes:

Ike: They're holding out longer than I expected.

Titania: Ike! Our forces on the western wall broke through the Daein defenses! They're requesting reinforcements. We should move our forces to the breach.

Ike: All right. I just hope we're able to keep Micaiah from doing anything rash. All units, to the western wall!

It was pretty much a show of how boned Daein is against the Laguz army by themselves. 3-6 shows that, 3-12 shows how boned they are against the Apostle army, and 3-13 shows how truly boned and cornered they are. It wouldn't be realistic at all to have Ike lose because of how powerful his army is in the story.

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Ike's blunt, imprudent, and impersonal, often leading to conflicts with his soldiers/potential allies. He wins friends slowly compared to every other FE Lord, and even when he does get Begnion's support in PoR they attempt to push him aside and use him as a figurehead leader while Zelgius does all the work. Many of the important allies that Ike does have (Caineghis, Titania) are inherited from his father, and throughout the entire game he is constantly pressured to live up to Greil's legacy. The fact that by the end of the game he actually does live up to that legacy doesn't make him a Mary Sue, it just means he had a complete (if predictable) character arc.

Edited by General Banzai

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