FionordeQuester Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) I've never read that story, but there are plenty of tacticians who have even more Mary Sue elements than I feel Micaiah does. I've seen a lot of tactician stories (and I have plenty of hate for them). Note to everyone: if you want a Gary Stu/Mary Sue, go find a tactician story on FFN. Almost any of them will do! The funny thing is, I actually remember that story being really, really good...it's just, that one part man >_<... Edited August 18, 2012 by FionordeQuester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroMystic Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Poor Miccy ;A; she's the newer lord and Ike steals her spotlight. I would of liked if Ike and the GM weren't in this game not only for Miccy but for all the new characters that weren't well written compared to PoR's characters. I believe I said this before, but while I agree that Ike got more spotlight than Micaiah, I don't agree with the "Ike stole her spotlight" sentiment, if only because it's an arbitrary negative to a character who can't really do anything about it (to be specific, that's something to blame the writers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 But it's undeniable. Micaiah was on the box art, but she only played a bit part in the story beyond her section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroMystic Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 What am I denying? I'm in full agreement that Micaiah didn't get enough attention. I'm just saying you can't blame Ike for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Soren would make a BADASS ruler. Gay Goth Land? Well, it depends. I guess you can't FULLY blame Ike, but you kinda can since it seems like we blame characters for bad stuff written about them normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noktra Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 The thing about RD is that sometimes I feel like it DOES kind of seem like an "official" fanfiction. Let's see ... A new "central character" for the downtrodden country, who has all these magical powers that no one else in that universe apparently has. Her hair color is even unique for Tellius. She is involved with an already established PoR character (Sothe). She has her own version of the Greil Mercenaries (Dawn Brigade). She is the leader for some unexplained reason, even though Nolan is said to have started. The Dawn Brigade merely exists to praise her and to be her tagalongs. She befriends a heron, who is friendlier to her than Reyson was to Ike. She befriends a "new species" of laguz who were previously unknown in PoR, who are from "another land" that was previously not thought to have been existed. She is Branded. She is the "true apostle" and takes the role from Sanaki, who existed in PoR and was believed to be the true apostle for the entire time. She becomes queen of a country she has no relation to, although the real heir (Soren) exists. Part 1 of RD is like a condensed version of PoR that didn't go into as much depth or detail. She becomes the host of Yune. I would say that RD has quite a surprisingly significant amount of "fanfiction elements". At times, I feel that it is written like a rushed fanfic. And I've seen a lot of fanfiction, believe me. While i do like the addition of the wolf laguz (loads), it is kinda out of left field. Micaiah's traits are so fanfic-ish..."I CAN SEE THE FUTURE AND HEAL WITH MY HANDS!!!" Totally agree with you two here. And Miccys fanfictioness doesn't even end there... As already stated it's weird to have so many characters having to love her without any special given reasons... A whole nation stands completely united behind her, a nation who wasn't united even under Ashnard! (Marado, the Priest in Palmeni Temple in PoR who stated that there were critical opinions within Daein) She can talk to birds! She seems to have no problems with understanding Volug, despite him only speaking the ancient language (not even Soren who's a very capable mage was able to understand the whole of Lilia's writing) ...She can even understand Volug's barking (Volug: *woof* *bawrg* Micaiah: Volug says there is something to the xxxx) She can read thoughts... The lyrics of the release Galdr "just came to her" magically after only hearing the melody... Let's put that list on to Ike... powers no one else has? No not really. His strength is part of his hard training (and he has competition - Zelgius) unique haircolor? Nope... Blue is rather common in Tellius (especially in Daein or is that me?) leadership? was given to him by his father's wish praise from companions? Ike does get some contra from his own men new laguz species... well Ike does get friends with Kurth in PoR (I think that counts as the dragontribe is very secluded) branded? nope, nothing that special... some wtf awesome heritage? nope... maybe that he's in a fact really a noble because of good sir Gawain Get to rule a nation? nope. He just vanishes. (but that too is kinda stu-ish in a way, but I see good reason for Ike's disapperaing *points at Lord Raven's post*) Host of a goddess? nope, but he'll become a favorite of her typical fanfiction superpowers as reading thoughts, healing, speaking to animals, seeing the future? no where even near such things, he's even rather a klutz when it comes to determine the outcoming of future events / hurting people's feelings out of bluntness changing characters in some unplausible way? not in PoR, I felt every character's change very reasonable. (RD is a so-so) having a nation standing completely behind him? in PoR he had to work hard for that trust, in RD he just has it (from beorc as laguz alike - if only for RD I'd call it a tie with Miccy...) (oh screw that galdr thing *puts back in Micaiah's already bursting special-power-bag*) So I think it's fair to say that he does have some of the typical stu-ish traits, but not exceedingly overflown and not beyond borders of other common maincharacters. I think this is actually the part of the story that pisses me off the most. And its not really because im a Soren fan. Its because no matter what you do, Soren never gets to claim his right! No matter how many supports and weird crap you do, this never happens! Micaiah gets to rule Daein! Ike doesnt end up ruling anything. He just vanishes! So after everything is said and done, Micaiah gets to be a queen! I would be alright with it if she was able to be a part of Begnion's rule in some way, but Daein? Yeah i get that she loves Daein and they love her but....gfusgfdj jepp rather annoying that is.... I had no issue wit her taking over in the Pelleas-is-dead scenario .... but noooo she gets the throne anyway >__> Soren would make a BADASS ruler. He so would and a rather scary one to that XD I don't see this as an issue. Even in the "complete" ending, only Kurth and Almedha know Soren is the heir. I doubt Soren would have any interest in ruling Daein even if he knew...I can't really fathom a scenario where Soren becomes king of Daein. Ike becoming a ruler also wouldn't make sense, he rejected his post as a Crimean noble so taking political office seems rather out of character. Micaiah taking the position which allows her to best help the people of Daein makes sense in character. Pelleas... he knew... but regardeless he gave his throne to Micaiah freely... ack! I have to agree on the Soren-as-king part though. I don't think he would care anyway... @bottlegnomes: I don't want to discuss this any further because I think it will get us nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Pelleas... he knew... but regardeless he gave his throne to Micaiah freely... ack! It's in character for Pelleas to do that- the guy doesn't have much confidence in his ruling abilities. Although I think I may have preferred an ending where Micaiah encourages Pelleas to stick with it, proper bloodline or not, and he manages to be a successful king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think this is actually the part of the story that pisses me off the most. And its not really because im a Soren fan. Its because no matter what you do, Soren never gets to claim his right! No matter how many supports and weird crap you do, this never happens! Micaiah gets to rule Daein! Ike doesnt end up ruling anything. He just vanishes! So after everything is said and done, Micaiah gets to be a queen! I would be alright with it if she was able to be a part of Begnion's rule in some way, but Daein? Yeah i get that she loves Daein and they love her but....gfusgfdj Why would Soren rule Daien? He has absolutely no connection to it and they even opposed them. Meanwhile, Micaiah did tons of shit for Daien. It's not always about blood, just look at the laguz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 The years before, the Greil Mercenaries worked during more peaceful times. I can believe war causes a much greater demand for the Greil mercs because the royals cannot offer the same protections to the citizens anymore. Why is it so hard to believe that Greil needed all the hands he could get to manage the company's contracts when Crimea is in the midst of being sacked? Take a look at any GM chapter where Greil is still alive and tell me Ike is "needed." Additionally, the war doesn't break out until ch 4, and AFAICT was not affecting anything before then. The conversation mentioned takes place in chapter 2. "But unlike last time, we seriously got a lot of shit to do" Like send you with Titania, Shinon and Gatrie to take out a bunch of shitty pirates. Why would Soren rule Daien? He has absolutely no connection to it and they even opposed them. Meanwhile, Micaiah did tons of shit for Daien. It's not always about blood, just look at the laguz. Soren also seems like someone who would especially hate to rule any country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Like send you with Titania, Shinon and Gatrie to take out a bunch of shitty pirates. They aren't shitty in Maniac Mode, The True Canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Whereas Micaiah is only saved by my definition of Mary Sue = fancharacter, otherwise she would pretty much count as one imho. Um, fan characters can be well-written too, you know. xP Also, whether RD sounds like a fanfic or not, that doesn't mean it's bad either. I've read some very well written fanfiction for multiple fandoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Totally agree with you two here. And Miccys fanfictioness doesn't even end there... As already stated it's weird to have so many characters having to love her without any special given reasons... A whole nation stands completely united behind her, a nation who wasn't united even under Ashnard! (Marado, the Priest in Palmeni Temple in PoR who stated that there were critical opinions within Daein) She can talk to birds! She seems to have no problems with understanding Volug, despite him only speaking the ancient language (not even Soren who's a very capable mage was able to understand the whole of Lilia's writing) ...She can even understand Volug's barking (Volug: *woof* *bawrg* Micaiah: Volug says there is something to the xxxx) She can read thoughts... The lyrics of the release Galdr "just came to her" magically after only hearing the melody... Let's put that list on to Ike... powers no one else has? No not really. His strength is part of his hard training (and he has competition - Zelgius) unique haircolor? Nope... Blue is rather common in Tellius (especially in Daein or is that me?) leadership? was given to him by his father's wish praise from companions? Ike does get some contra from his own men new laguz species... well Ike does get friends with Kurth in PoR (I think that counts as the dragontribe is very secluded) branded? nope, nothing that special... some wtf awesome heritage? nope... maybe that he's in a fact really a noble because of good sir Gawain Get to rule a nation? nope. He just vanishes. (but that too is kinda stu-ish in a way, but I see good reason for Ike's disapperaing *points at Lord Raven's post*) Host of a goddess? nope, but he'll become a favorite of her typical fanfiction superpowers as reading thoughts, healing, speaking to animals, seeing the future? no where even near such things, he's even rather a klutz when it comes to determine the outcoming of future events / hurting people's feelings out of bluntness changing characters in some unplausible way? not in PoR, I felt every character's change very reasonable. (RD is a so-so) having a nation standing completely behind him? in PoR he had to work hard for that trust, in RD he just has it (from beorc as laguz alike - if only for RD I'd call it a tie with Miccy...) (oh screw that galdr thing *puts back in Micaiah's already bursting special-power-bag*) So I think it's fair to say that he does have some of the typical stu-ish traits, but not exceedingly overflown and not beyond borders of other common maincharacters. jepp rather annoying that is.... I had no issue wit her taking over in the Pelleas-is-dead scenario .... but noooo she gets the throne anyway >__> He so would and a rather scary one to that XD Pelleas... he knew... but regardeless he gave his throne to Micaiah freely... ack! I have to agree on the Soren-as-king part though. I don't think he would care anyway... @bottlegnomes: I don't want to discuss this any further because I think it will get us nowhere. Agree on the list there. Yep. No, Soren probably wouldnt take the throne but he IS the rightful heir. It would have been cool if Pelleas and/or Almedha were all "You are really Ashnard's son. You have the blood right to the throne. Soren WOULD likely say "Da fuck? No. I dont want it." But the fact that Micaiah gets its without any interaction like that just...it bugs me. Soren as a rule would be like...Think Lord Tywin from Game of Thrones/ASoIaF. Super efficient and has eyes everywhere. Yeah he'd be pretty scary but awesome. I've read some very well written fanfiction for multiple fandoms. Well written, solid, good fanfiction is so goddamn rare. Its like rarer than the shiny Pokemon. You'll be looking forever and maybe find one or two in the entirety of existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Well written, solid, good fanfiction is so goddamn rare. Its like rarer than the shiny Pokemon. You'll be looking forever and maybe find one or two in the entirety of existence. Oh, you're exaggerating. xP True, a majority of fanfiction out there is bad, but there are still plenty of good fics as well. They just, unfortunately, get overshadowed by the bad fics, making them hard to find. Edited August 18, 2012 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Oh, you're exaggerating. xP True, a majority of fanfiction out there is bad, but there are still plenty of good fics as well. They just, unfortunately, get overshadowed by the bad fics, making them hard to find. I think your definition of "good" and Florina's one are very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Wait, Jon Snow is Florina? I know her. Anyway, or she might not be looking hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well, I agree with Ana but Eclipse has a point, how "good" are we drawing the line at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Depends. If we go by publishable, an almost negligible amount. If we go by not cringe-worthy, probably a fair bit. I'd say somewhere in between, not necessarily publishable, but readable and fairly entertaining, is the best as the former is absurdly strict, and the latter is better, but quite lenient. Edited August 18, 2012 by bottlegnomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well, we can't really draw a line. People have different levels of expectations. For me, mine aren't real high because I'm not good at interpreting stories. In fact, I rather suck at it. But that doesn't mean I don't know good writing when I see it, because I'm a writer myself. My expectations aren't anywhere near low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Well there is really hilarious fanfic out there thats readable. You know, the silly fun stuff. But thats all it is. Silly fun bullshit. If you are truly searching for excellent fanfiction...yer gonna be at it for a very long while. My idea of good fanfic is actually stuff that follows canon. Stuff thats plausible that doesnt bend canon around so much that the reader is going "da fuck...srsly?" A good example would be an A Song Of Ice and Fire fanfic that focuses on a non-POV or a relatively minor character and their take on the canon events. Or a Fire Emblem fanfic that deals with Seth's point of view and his relationship with Eirika. Or some junk. DO YOU KNOW HOW RARE THAT IS?! lawl. If one is doing alternate continuity, its gotta be cohesive and well rounded. Focusing too much on one aspect (like romance for example) is just lazy writing. Edited August 18, 2012 by Jon Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Looks like I've missed some stuff while I was offline. First things first: 1) I don't think Soren would become the ruler of Daein, even if he knew. But I feel like it's not closure enough that Soren never finds out the truth about his heritage. Even if he rejects both his Daein and Goldoan heritage, he at least deserves the truth. 2) While Ike is indeed the first beorc that Kurthnaga met, Kurthnaga joins Daein's side in PoR because Almedha is his sister and he believed that Pelleas was his nephew. And he seems to have a high opinion of Micaiah as well (or at least not a terrible one). 3) Good OCs in fanfiction require years of practice in writing OCs. I wrote fanfics since I was ... eight or ten and my first OCs were terrible. They were way too overpowered (although I am glad to say that I never paired canon characters with my OCs). It's taken me over a decade before I could create OCs I was satisfied with, and this particularly helped when I switched over to writing original stories instead of fanfiction. The thing about OCs and being called Mary Sues is that a lot of fanfic writers fall into the trap of wanting their character to be the "best" at something or to be "established" or respected or whatnot. They want their characters to be liked and successful and powerful. The problem is that not everyone is good at writing passage of time, character progress, or character interactions all that convincingly, and a misstep in any of those three can lead to Mary Sue-ness. A character who wins the respect of everyone too fast or too easily, a character who achieves too much in too short time, a character who just has his or her powers handed to him/her ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroMystic Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 3) Good OCs in fanfiction require years of practice in writing OCs. I wrote fanfics since I was ... eight or ten and my first OCs were terrible. They were way too overpowered (although I am glad to say that I never paired canon characters with my OCs). It's taken me over a decade before I could create OCs I was satisfied with, and this particularly helped when I switched over to writing original stories instead of fanfiction. The thing about OCs and being called Mary Sues is that a lot of fanfic writers fall into the trap of wanting their character to be the "best" at something or to be "established" or respected or whatnot. They want their characters to be liked and successful and powerful. The problem is that not everyone is good at writing passage of time, character progress, or character interactions all that convincingly, and a misstep in any of those three can lead to Mary Sue-ness. A character who wins the respect of everyone too fast or too easily, a character who achieves too much in too short time, a character who just has his or her powers handed to him/her ... As a writer who has fallen into this trap myself, I wholeheartedly agree with this. My first serious OC was pretty damn terrible, so terrible that once I realized it I decided to keep my OCs out of fanfictions and into roleplays instead. That said, I believe the best way to write an OC into a story is make them a character that serves to expand the personality of an established canon character, or multiple ones. Allow them to become meshed into the world, instead of what many fanfic writers do and make the world revolve around them. For something a little more on topic: Soren would never become a ruler of a nation. Hell, his ending said he'd never serve anyone but Ike (which is why I see their paired ending as canon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 oc fanfiction is bad unless you can make it not sound like fanfiction i can count the number of stories i've read that accomplish this on one hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Looks like I've missed some stuff while I was offline. First things first: 1) I don't think Soren would become the ruler of Daein, even if he knew. But I feel like it's not closure enough that Soren never finds out the truth about his heritage. Even if he rejects both his Daein and Goldoan heritage, he at least deserves the truth. 2) While Ike is indeed the first beorc that Kurthnaga met, Kurthnaga joins Daein's side in PoR because Almedha is his sister and he believed that Pelleas was his nephew. And he seems to have a high opinion of Micaiah as well (or at least not a terrible one). 3) Good OCs in fanfiction require years of practice in writing OCs. I wrote fanfics since I was ... eight or ten and my first OCs were terrible. They were way too overpowered (although I am glad to say that I never paired canon characters with my OCs). It's taken me over a decade before I could create OCs I was satisfied with, and this particularly helped when I switched over to writing original stories instead of fanfiction. The thing about OCs and being called Mary Sues is that a lot of fanfic writers fall into the trap of wanting their character to be the "best" at something or to be "established" or respected or whatnot. They want their characters to be liked and successful and powerful. The problem is that not everyone is good at writing passage of time, character progress, or character interactions all that convincingly, and a misstep in any of those three can lead to Mary Sue-ness. A character who wins the respect of everyone too fast or too easily, a character who achieves too much in too short time, a character who just has his or her powers handed to him/her ... sajdghasgdjasd Boron...yer doing it again. The brain link!! Numbah 1: Yeah. Actually thats precisely what i meant. The fact Soren never finds out and is never offered the throne (due to beorc blood rights) is ehh. Its not closure enough! Yer right! I would even be cool with him not even getting the offer. But at least have the dude know who is fucken parents were!!! Numbah 2: Kurth did have a positive opinion on Miccy because of that business in part 1. He knew he could trust her after that. But yeah the biggest reason he got involved in the conflict was because Almedha. So, really, Micaiah nor Ike isnt really in the equation there as to why he joined the war. Numbah 3: Totes. There's a reason why i dont write fanfiction. If you put OCs in there...shit can get real messy. Its why i dig the established canon character's (whos hella minor and doesnt get a POV or anything) point of view of canon events. Thats actually pretty fun to read. Edited August 19, 2012 by Jon Snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well, we can't really draw a line. People have different levels of expectations. For me, mine aren't real high because I'm not good at interpreting stories. In fact, I rather suck at it. But that doesn't mean I don't know good writing when I see it, because I'm a writer myself. My expectations aren't anywhere near low. I wrote when I was 4, was I qualified to be a judge of good writing then? Anyway, only writing canon characters can be a problem as well since they can turn into an author insert/Mary Sue/etc. This happens pretty frequently with Hermione in Harry Potter fanfiction, she can get as bad as some OCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Since Mary Sue (the concept) arose from fanfiction originally, yeah thats true. It all boils down to if the fanfic writer can actually....you know...write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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