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yeah i was trying to get the features to be softer, but that is not my forte it seems

which is why i'm opening this to other spriters, if they are willing, to make some edits

if not i'll try again tomorrow night or something

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lumi i love it ^^

i mesed around with it for like 10 minutes tho i hope u dun mind

8bfce88936.png

i think the hair should be more WOAH cuz she's got rly nice hair, and the oa suggests it's rly poofy... also idk, she's still muscular i think, i just shrinked the shoulders cuz they were rly broad and raised them

also she's igrene so... BEWBS XD

Edited by Vapornihon

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ooh the face is def better

i'll keep on messing with the shoulder area because idk i think Hawkeye's daughter should not be less than half his size so I'd like to kee the original arm sizes but that'll be when i get home tonight

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lumi i love it ^^

i mesed around with it for like 10 minutes tho i hope u dun mind

8bfce88936.png

i think the hair should be more WOAH cuz she's got rly nice hair, and the oa suggests it's rly poofy... also idk, she's still muscular i think, i just shrinked the shoulders cuz they were rly broad and raised them

also she's igrene so... BEWBS XD

i like nihs edits, makes it feel more ingrene, however for the whole new design thing id say that mabey make the muscles slightly bigger from nihs edits, i mean sure shes an epic desert archer nomad but shes not a body builder, so the key should be to make it seem like she has muscles but not to make it looked built, that and though she is an extreme archer she isn't going to be doing heavy lifting like other units, but the more compact chest would help with aim/

so nihs possible edits are close but i feel they need more tweaking.

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The thing is archers don't do lifting per se but the amount of strength you need to actually shoot a bow properly is a hell lot, especially older ones

Archers really should be jacked as fuck but they aren't in FE for some stupid reasons

Edited by Thor Odinson

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The thing is archers don't do lifting per se but the amount of strength you need to actually shoot a bow properly is a hell lot

Archers really should be jacked as fuck but they aren't in FE for some stupid reasons

well yeah they probs should be rather strong to get that damn arrow any distance, but the thing is your new design for ingrenes muscles are a little too extreme, partly cause ya know female so the shoulders should be aligned at the hips if standing perfectly stock straight, that and female muscle mass both is lower then male muscle mass and are less defined, those muscles are a little too defined to be natural, perhaps if she was a body builder or if steroids were available but since she is not a body builder and most likely doesn't have access to steroids (not even counting here personality) her muscles especially in her arms should not be as defined as a males of equal strength (though probably larger then a male with less strength). A soldier will most likely be strong yes especially an independent soldier but there muscles were compact not defined and muscular (this can be applied to all fire emblem designs)

however if were going by anime bs logic then whatever works will works but for realism the muscles should defs be less defined.

on a side note i like the outfit design it looks real nice so keep that.

also since this is younger ingrene the muscles should be even less defined cause young people do not have overly defined muscles, unless she's an older teenager to young adult which means they can be more defined i guess.

Edited by Umbichueon

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Please google muscular women; there's actually a lot of them. The media portrays women as being a lot smaller than they actually are due to how selective the image of women in media is. Just the other day in my university chem class I saw a woman who was pretty jacked. Her arms are similar to the size of how I sprited Igrene, and she's a university student.

The thing is FE has very little body diversity for female characters. All but 4 of them (Echidna, Niime, Meg, Flavia) are pretty much cookie-cutter slim model type build with the only variation being breast size and height, which isn't true to real women. Igrene I felt would be a reasonable character to change the build of and be in character. She has the genes. She's Hawkeye's daughter. Dude's massive. Archery, contrary to popular belief, is an activity that requires tremendous amounts of strength, especially before modern times. These are hardly even big muscles compared to what I have done in the past, and certainly nowhere near the muscular male characters in the series such as her dad.

Of course, if you're arguing for more physically strong female characters with more body fat, I'm happy to oblige for some other designs. Those are much underrepresented as well.

honestly im kinda annoyed now and the next person to tell me to drop the muscles i'm going to add another px of muscle on until she's actually the size of hawkeye and arch will give her 16 con

Edited by Thor Odinson

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honestly im kinda annoyed now and the next person to tell me to drop the muscles i'm going to add another px of muscle on until she's actually the size of hawkeye and arch will give her 16 con

Agreed.

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Please google muscular women; there's actually a lot of them. The media portrays women as being a lot smaller than they actually are due to how selective the image of women in media is. Just the other day in my university chem class I saw a woman who was pretty jacked. Her arms are similar to the size of how I sprited Igrene, and she's a university student.

The thing is FE has very little body diversity for female characters. All but 4 of them (Echidna, Niime, Meg, Flavia) are pretty much cookie-cutter slim model type build with the only variation being breast size and height, which isn't true to real women. Igrene I felt would be a reasonable character to change the build of and be in character. She has the genes. She's Hawkeye's daughter. Dude's massive. Archery, contrary to popular belief, is an activity that requires tremendous amounts of strength, especially before modern times. These are hardly even big muscles compared to what I have done in the past, and certainly nowhere near the muscular male characters in the series such as her dad.

Of course, if you're arguing for more physically strong female characters with more body fat, I'm happy to oblige for some other designs. Those are much underrepresented as well.

im not arguing that front lumi im arguing that ingrene would have natural muscle from work, and trainig, not bodybuilder muscles which are made through specific training, special diets, and for most of the extreme cases steroid or testosterone medication, im sure any muscle size is possible especially in our day and age cause of stuff i mentioned above, but ingrene A) does not have access to most of the medication listed above, B) would follow a desert diet for survival not a bodybuilders one, C) Would not do bodybuilding muscle work outs instead doing ones more beneficial for long term combat which does not make as defined muscles, D) is an archer and would probably be more compact then broad (the had muscle yes but most of the time an archer was not a broad muscle man like Hercules but slimer and smaller like say Apollo) and E) Is a female and has more estrogen then testosterone which, with testosterone being needed to make more of the well defined muscles (those body builder females most likely had to take testosterone pills to achieve some of those muscles most likely in the more extreme cases of muscle mass and definition), im not saying its not possible to achieve those levels of muscle mass im saying that considering ingrenes background her muscles would indeed be there but not overly defined.

m all for musclely women but it has to make sense as to what they have those muscles and ingrene would not have the original designs skimpy willowy female arm designs or lumis muscular body builder design.

the following is not written by me and is in blue, and is the opinion of a well trusted acquaintance who has a thorough understanding of human figure and anatomy.

This design is not accurate to a well muscled female as it is based on a male muscle tone which is derived from different anatomy and different testosterone levels. In the design given, the biceps and triceps are shown to have formed as based on a body builder regiment which is only accurate to healthy men. In a woman's case, a developed arm would include significant muscling on the top and shoulder which slims down to the elbow and flares again at the forearm. If a woman gains muscle from natural means (i.e. no steroids) even well toned muscles will appear softer and less defined than a man's as a result of a naturally higher fat to muscle ratio and lacking testosterone. The design should be altered to reflect a truly feminine tone as opposed to a masculine one as this will be both more accurate and more recognizable.

Edited by Umbichueon

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I think you forgot the fact that any part below the hackbox is not even relevant

all that tricep shit isn't relevant because it's literally not shown you don't even see the full deltoid

I tend to draw muscles closer but not quite to a muscular anatomy book as both a stylistic choice (definition is more fun) and to help me get the muscle locations more accurate like did you miss the whole part about that being rough as fuck and never getting shaded

and if we want to apply full realism then most of the cast will need a revamp i honestly don't see the big deal

it's literally like, what, 16 colors and a bust shot and you're talking about parts that'll never be shown on screen

Edited by Thor Odinson

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and if we want to apply full realism then most of the cast will need a revamp i honestly don't see the big deal

This part is important.

All of the muscly dudes have bodybuilder muscles even though they're all woodcutters and knights and such, who should just have more natural muscles with fat on them, because stylistic reasons. Igrene as one of the few muscly ladies can have similar definition and fit in fine

I also like the edits Nih made to the face

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I think you forgot the fact that any part below the hackbox is not even relevant

all that tricep shit isn't relevant because it's literally not shown you don't even see the full deltoid

I tend to draw muscles closer but not quite to a muscular anatomy book as both a stylistic choice (definition is more fun) and to help me get the muscle locations more accurate like did you miss the whole part about that being rough as fuck and never getting shaded

and if we want to apply full realism then most of the cast will need a revamp i honestly don't see the big deal

it's literally like, what, 16 colors and a bust shot and you're talking about parts that'll never be shown on screen

look all im saying is that if your going for a more realistic approach (which you did say earlier) you need to tone down the muscle definition which though may be fun makes your ingrene mug seem like a male mug not a female mug (this can be applied to many mugs as well) if this was suppose to be a quirky game with whatever proportions the creator wanted then the muscles would be fine but since you going for an image close to a more realistic approach then ingrene needs to be toned down. she can have muscles but it needs to be compact otherwise it will look weird. males and females look different because they are different no matter what bullshit you say and as such need different body structures and the one ingrene had in your original mug lumi were suited to a male not a female. Part of ingrenes design was that she was a relatively gorgeous female in proportions (wide hips and large breasts) which though may not be correct for some one of her position were atleast part of her design, the redesign takes it to far in the other direction and though i think ingrene with muscles makes sense they have to be of a proper proportion.

but if that's what you want then i'll just sit here seething.

Edited by Umbichueon

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look all im saying is that if your going for a more realistic approach (which you did say earlier) you need to tone down the muscle definition which though may be fun makes your ingrene mug seem like a male mug not a female mug (this can be applied to many mugs as well) if this was suppose to be a quirky game with whatever proportions the creator wanted then the muscles would be fine but since you going for an image close to a more realistic approach then ingrene needs to be toned down. she can have muscles but it needs to be compact otherwise it will look weird. males and females look different because they are different no matter what bullshit you say and as such need different body structures and the one ingrene had in your original mug lumi were suited to a male not a female. Part of ingrenes design was that she was a relatively gorgeous female in proportions (wide hips and large breasts) which though may not be correct for some one of her position were atleast part of her design, the redesign takes it to far in the other direction and though i think ingrene with muscles makes sense they have to be of a proper proportion.

but if that's what you want then i'll just sit here seething.

How old are you seriously.

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I did not say stylistically realistic

I said I want wider representation truer to the rough sizes of actual women instead of cookie-cutter models, and you're taking my word too for--for lack of a better word off the top of my head--seriously to the extreme; Stylistically both in my personal art (everyone's 900% more muscular there as a personal stylistic choice) and overall as a series, if I want some fucking delts I'll get my fucking delts.

stylistically realism isn't happening with 16 colors and anime eyes at my skill level, if you want that talk to pi not me he's honestly the only person who I know who even has a chance of pulling it off

If I want realism stylistically I'd open up photoshop, change to brushes mode, use references, and paint something

not making 16 color fire emblem sprites and getting complaints about half a delt that isn't even that big

you know what this is the new igrene mug instead

793711bc23.png

this ain't my true bara form yet even i can go way buffer

in all seriousness time to make the real edits

Edited by Thor Odinson

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you need to tone down the muscle definition which though may be fun makes your ingrene mug seem like a male mug not a female mug

Congratz. That's the most gender normative thing I've read all day.

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3f025c94e7.png

actually i lied, here's the new mug update


[8:20:42 PM] BwdYeti: too small
[8:20:47 PM] AthenaWyrm: you should like
[8:20:54 PM] AthenaWyrm: make the post and say
[8:21:05 PM] AthenaWyrm: "YOU'VE ALL GONE TOO FAR"
[8:21:16 PM] AthenaWyrm: and post a giant version of the mug
[8:21:48 PM] BwdYeti: can she do gamma wave
[8:22:15 PM] God of Thunder and Lord of Bunnies: haha
[8:23:26 PM] Josh: igrene is now a lawyer
[8:23:30 PM] Josh: this is canon
[8:23:37 PM] God of Thunder and Lord of Bunnies: brb paletteswapping to green
[8:24:42 PM] Josh: On 9/22/2014, at 8:23 PM, Josh wrote:
> igrene is now a lawyer

correction, igrene is now an sjl - social justice lawyer

fitting with #socialjustice theme no

okay i'll actually get to work now

Edited by Thor Odinson

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let me appeal this from another standpoint then. design standpoint it is well construed i will say that, however from a story standpoint wouldn't it seem odd. other characters would bound to notice the face that ingrene has such large muscles, which wasn't really a part of her character to begin with, it would create a disconnect between en ingrene and canon ingrene which wouldnt make her ingrene because a focus on large muscles wasn't a part of ingrenes design unlike say sakura ogami from DTHH who's large muscles was both something that the other characters noticed and reacted too and a point of pride for her as it was a symbol of her warrior spirit and hard work, meanwhile ingrene took pride in being the guardian of the nabata desert and her archery (i think) her point of character was not her spectacular biceps, thus the design point of giving ingrene large muscles is a superficial change only there for the sake of having a female with large muscles (like having the black guy for social equality or the token hottie for equal genders) and superfical changes like that add nothing they take away from any actual depth you might be trying to get across with the character. if ingrene is going to have large muscles something has to become of it in her character say her being proud of them or even being embarrassed by them cause they drive away all the superficial attractive men, however doing so changes her character when taking an adaptation of a character is quite the shame as its not them and might as well be replaced by an oc.

How old are you seriously.

i have no obligation to tell you that, though i will say im in my late teen years.

Congratz. That's the most gender normative thing I've read all day.

not suer if that's an mocking insult or not but i will say im all for gender equality and all that i just think it needs to be thoughtful and meaningful, and shouldn't get in the way of a story device simply to parade the fact that "girls can be bad ass" or "black people aren't all gangsters" or just be there to shout something the other side wont hear cause you aren't giving them a reason too.

3f025c94e7.png

actually i lied, here's the new mug update


fitting with #socialjustice theme no

okay i'll actually get to work now

now your just being inmature

Edited by Umbichueon

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At this point I don't fucking care

I like the muscles arch likes the muscles any more comments about the muscles and I'm going to seriously use the she-hulk version and I can go even bigger if arch didn't want the muscles he wouldn't have hired me like that's kinda what i'm known for, that's what i do

if you really don't like it make your own edit and put it in or something I suggest you stop before I decide I'm going to make every single character, man, woman, old people, child, jacked as fuck instead of just one change I felt that would work the muscles are not going anywhere and that is final

Echidna has pretty spectacular biceps too, nobody said anything I don't think they give a fuck

Edited by Thor Odinson

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im all for gender equality and all that i just think it needs to be thoughtful and meaningful, and shouldn't get in the way of a story device

now your just being inmature

Reread that real quickly. Women and men are only on equal standing if it doesn't get in the way of the story...

I had the thought that hulk-Igrene was a joke. But that might just be me.

Igrene, or anyone else, should be able to have any size muscles without them defining her/their character, regardless of gender. Kind of part of the feminism/egalitarianism movement.

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Hulk Igrene is a joke, check the actual sprite a few pages back that i'm editing because i did ask for a face edit and got a pretty spectacular one

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not suer if that's an mocking insult or not but i will say im all for gender equality and all that i just think it needs to be thoughtful and meaningful

So... thoughtless sexism/racism/etc. is okay as long as it is a story?

in the way of a story device simply to parade the fact that "girls can be bad ass" or "black people aren't all gangsters" or just be there to shout something the other side wont hear cause you aren't giving them a reason too.

I really don't get this, so... it's okay to make the black gangster stereotype and minimize girls thoughtlessly? Why does someone need to hear this? (from my understanding Elibian knight's primary purpose is not to shout equality, it is a interquel to FE7 and FE6, but it can feature those elements. The audience is FE players, not racist or sexist people who probably aren't interested in changing their minds)

Is the black guy(Sorry, can't remember his name atm) in Illia is "parading" his not gangster-ness a problem to you as well? Do you have a problem with him not being a stereotype?

Edited by L95

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At this point I don't fucking care

I like the muscles arch likes the muscles any more comments about the muscles and I'm going to seriously use the she-hulk version and I can go even bigger

if you really don't like it make your own edit and put it in or something I suggest you stop before I decide I'm going to make every single character, man, woman, old people, child, jacked as fuck instead of just one change I felt that would work the muscles are not going anywhere and that is final

Echidna has pretty spectacular biceps too, nobody said anything I don't think they give a fuck

it worked more with echidna because the were not nearly as defined (i think) she was only in the one house as a cameo, and it felt more in character. however sice you fail to see my point ill go piss off then.

Reread that real quickly. Women and men are only on equal standing if it doesn't get in the way of the story...

I had the thought that hulk-Igrene was a joke. But that might just be me.

Igrene, or anyone else, should be able to have any size muscles without them defining her/their character, regardless of gender. Kind of part of the feminism/egalitarianism movement.

they can have as much muscle as they want either gender, but i was not making a point about gender equality i was making a point about design, visually and character wise but again everyone fails to see the point i was trying to make so i'll piss off and watch the parade go by in blissful ignorance.

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