IRC Channel for Drafts

[Shin]

Quite understandable, Integ. We never really used the chat for draft talk, it was mostly for silly things - I shared a lot of my Pokeshin development there. On Skype we don't talk much about drafts, it's still a general gathering point. I do agree that there is some unintentional isolation, but we do our best to minimize it as much as we can. I wouldn't even go as far as calling us "draft chat", we're more of a gathering place - very similar to the forum's IPchat. However, I still think Raven's overreacting, saying that we're all hurting him deeply by not going to a chat he wasn't even on that regularly. It's a little silly really.

[Komeiji Koishi]

Since Raven said he expects responses, I feel I should give my two cents. Plus, ZM mentioned me, so there's another reason.

As you all know, #sfdrafts was a place where we could talk amongst friends, talk about life, or, hell, talk about drafts. When I first learned about it, I became hooked, and probably spent just as much time there as I did here. It was really awesome talking to people and quickly getting responses- I thought it was as close to real life as you could get. In a way, if SF was my home, then #sfdrafts was my home away from home.

Then the move to Skype happened.

When I first learned about it, I was really vocal about my disdain. Why was/am I mad, you ask? I don't have (regular access to) a computer or any device that has access to Skype. Should you feel sorry for me? At this point in time, I don't even care anymore.

Really, how can I feel like I can easily join Skype chat, if I don't even have a way of joining it in the first place? Get a computer? Easier said than done, seeing as how the only way I can get an *OK* amount of money is by basically starving myself in school, and the cheapest computer is at about $200. Get a job to buy a computer? Don't have the grades, the time, or the energy- and I'm possibly not old enough- to get a job. Ask for money from your parents? My mom has trouble getting money as it is, and that goes into bills she pays, and my dad only gives me about $15 a week- and I have to starve myself in school in order to keep that money.

I know my situation is different from everyone else's, and that I'm just one of the people you might not like (Kalas? You mean, that guy who did that bad thing several weeks ago and acted like an idiot?), but atleast have empathy for the people who only have access to irc and can not access Skype.

[Integrity]

Quite understandable, Integ. We never really used the chat for draft talk, it was mostly for silly things - I shared a lot of my Pokeshin development there. On Skype we don't talk much about drafts, it's still a general gathering point. I do agree that there is some unintentional isolation, but we do our best to minimize it as much as we can. I wouldn't even go as far as calling us "draft chat", we're more of a gathering place - very similar to the forum's IPchat. However, I still think Raven's overreacting, saying that we're all hurting him deeply by not going to a chat he wasn't even on that regularly. It's a little silly really.

To be fair to Raven, from his standpoint there's this new meeting ground that he's not (?) in where all the drafters seem to congregate. As such, what he sees is his channel he set up dead in the water and this special place where all the drafters are talking about he doesn't even know what. Yeah, he's overreacting, but if the SF Skype chat didn't/wasn't intended to obsolete #sfdrafts, was it a coincidence that you stopped going to #sfdrafts in lieu of using the Skype chat? Like I said to Lucina, the draft chat that happens (presumably, I'm not in it) happens there now instead of #sfdrafts, so it *has* obsoleted the channel and therefore *has* become the chat where draft talk occurs, whether it's a DraftChat or not. It's like the older days, the days that Raven set up #sfdrafts to stop - would you consider ip.chat a draft chat? No, but when draft talk happened it happened there.

[Toothache]

The real problem with a Skype chat is that it is very exclusive, you have to be manually added and even know about it in the first place. IRC is much more inclusive and user friendly, certainly more useful to new people to go to a single place that doesn't require special permission. The Skype chat has taken over, but it doesn't do anything the IRC cannot do, and in many ways does less. No-one ever uses it to speak to each other in a call, so it seems relatively pointless, and IRC has auto-logging of conversation on most clients too, so that excuse doesn't hold water.

[riariadne]

imhotep skype is an awful medium for this sort of thing, it just has more people

what tootache said is right though, IRC is much more easily accessible and there's legitimately never been a single voice chat so saying that's an advantage is stupid. it just makes it a hell of a lot harder to get into.

also skype makes a fuckton of messages that I could not care less about show up. I've never used it to read past conversations and probably never will

Edited January 3, 2013 by Strider

[Lord Raven]

I think you need to handle this a little more maturely, you're getting unnecessarily upset over this. I think your main problem is that we're not using your creation, and that you're not in charge. We're happy using Skype, and we welcome any who wants to join to the group. I don't think it's selfish that the majority of us are using a different medium. Wanting everyone to go back to IRC just to satisfy one's ego and a select few individuals is another story. If you don't want to use Skype, that's fine. However, we're not coming back.

Nope, I couldn't give a damn about that because I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one in charge in there either, and if you actually read my posts instead of assume things about me then you'd see you're dead wrong. I never really thought you'd stoop to the level of saying that my ego is shot; that's extremely rude. If I was concerned about my ego then I would demand access to your chat and almost flood it with messages telling you guys to come back.

However, I still think Raven's overreacting, saying that we're all hurting him deeply by not going to a chat he wasn't even on that regularly. It's a little silly really.

I was on it pretty regularly before school started, you know, and then I suddenly come back and everyone's left without telling me anything and with no hints of why people left.

EDIT: Also guys, cliques break forums. Don't you ever forget that, because I know for a fact that Balcerzak can back me up on that. You guys have, for all intents and purposes, started a clique from my perception and also that of many others, and I'm pretty sure anyone else from the outside looking in will agree with me. It's a matter of perception; however inclusive you think you guys are being, the perception isn't in favor of your viewpoint.

I want more people to respond. I know I've been seeing Refa reading this thread and I've definitely seen Jedi around on skype.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Lord Raven

[BBM]

I think Raven is overreacting a little bit, but I agree with most of what him, Toothache, and Balcerzak are saying. Skype has almost no advantages over IRC for something like this. Nobody actually uses voicechat, and some IRC applets and clients even allow you to keep logs. Plus if people have to download Skype to get onto the chat, how much more difficult is having to download an IRC client? Then when I go to sleep and come back, there are like 2000 messages. And I'm constantly getting pinged like every 2 seconds when I'm playing a game or watching something, whereas with IRC if someone wants to ask me a question specifically they can just ping me with my name. The only reason I moved onto Skype is because in the two weeks when I was really busy with exams, everyone suddenly moved to Skype and it was the only way I could talk to them.

Also, I'm not friends with everyone on the Skype chat, and it bothers me a little bit that they know my name even though I'd kind of prefer them not to. And I have family on my Skype and can't just change it either.

I think the thing is that most people don't actually care either way. They just want to be where more people are. But suddenly as people started talking on Skype more, everyone just moved to Skype because talking to the exact same people in two different places is pretty dumb and kind of a hassle.

MODEDIT: bbm dood don't doublepost

Edited January 5, 2013 by Integrity

[Lord Raven]

I don't understand that. IP.Chat was the gathering ground for this for at least like 4-5 months prior to #sfdrafts and most people still had skype then. Why come up with that point now as opposed to almost a year ago?

[dondon151]

i only preferred skype because i had to open mibbit every time i wanted to go to #sfdrafts (chatzilla wouldn't work fsr)

guess that's been fixed now though. usually i have skype open anyway because i participate in other chats

[Jaybee]

I read a lot of butthurt.

Yes, you created #sfdrafts, and that's good and all, and then people moved over to Skype for whatever reason. You think you're being left out, you're disappointed that your creation as failed, and so you're a little pissed off and all. That doesn't mean you can come into this thread, make a post whining about how you've been forsaken and left alone in this cruel... forum, and except everyone to go back to #sfdrafts apologising for this 'clique' and that crap.

This is kind of ridiculous, to say the least.

You call us selfish for 'breaking off' into the Skype chat, when you're equally selfish for wanting us to go back to #sfdrafts. Don't say that it's much easier to get into #sfdrafts than the Skype chat and all that crap - I'm pretty sure everyone who cares about drafts (hell, a lot of people that don't even draft know about the chat too) knows that this chat exists, and asking one of the ~20 people in the chat will, in all likelihood, get you added to the chat.

[Lord Raven]

I'll give you some advice; learn to read before you try and flame me. Absolutely nothing you said is relevant and whatever is relevant is nowhere near a major part of my point. There is a small amount of personal touch (in no one letting me know, not because "my creation failed"), yes you're right (something I never denied). But, you know, if you read into the point and look at the details instead of oversimplifying and nullifying every thing said in this thread, then I guess you'd post something constructive and rational. Bearing in mind, I'm not the only one who shares my viewpoint in this thread, and even outside this thread, so don't even turn this into a personal attack.

Thank you and have a good day.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Shin]

I leave for like 2-3 months (school gets the better of me, and I think I'm a lot healthier now than I used to be because I'm not looking at the computer all the time) and it's all inactive, it used to be 10-15ish people per day and now everyone's left. Someone explain this to me, NOW. Because I set this up so that normal people wouldn't go into IP.Chat to be flooded by draft talk and also so people who despise IP.Chat for whatever reason don't need to go there (IRC is more stable than IP.Chat).

I heard recently it's because of a Skype chat, but that's probably not the full reason. I don't like the fact that everyone's split off into a skype chat btw, because I hate using skype chat and I sincerely just want to talk to people about stuff on #sfdrafts, and I know I'm not alone in this. It honestly cuts straight to the core that people would do that, and some of my friends who i encouraged to come back to #sfdrafts just decided to do it for a day and then went fuck it it's just Raven. (Of course, some of you guys are people who this is not aimed towards <3. Don't be fooled though, this list is very small).

JB's got a valid point. I'd also appreciate if you didn't try to talk down to people who disagree with you, like we're naughty children who made fun of you. You're clearly very upset about this, your choice in words reflects it. IRC may have its uses, and perhaps it is more difficult for people to join the Skype group, but you need to stop complaining, and trying to shrug everyone else off as "flaming you". People have gone somewhere else, you need to accept that.

[Integrity]

Okay, new game.

That's the second? third? night in a row I've woken up from, saw posts in this thread, and thought "okay who's overreacting to this now?" First I tried to be some kind of impartial mediator, but I'm giving up on that. I don't want to see another impassioned essay on why the opposition in this point sucks or is selfish, because everybody's throwing that one around. If anybody's going to post after this post on this matter, I expect it to be really fucking civil and really fucking polite.

This kills me because it isn't even about anything. It's an IRC channel that MRay - yes - overreacted to and people decided that gave them a license to overreact right back. Knock it off.

[General Horace]

That said, I get where Raven's coming from being mad over the #sfdrafts shit. You can say it's not exclusive and that you're happy to include, Shin, but a noobie has to get ahold of somebody from the drafts Skype chat, get on his friends list, and then get himself added to the chat. It adds several layers of exclusivity that really shouldn't be there.

I think this is actually a pretty valid point. Sure some of use may have our skype contacts in our profile etc, but I know many (including myself) would have trouble just adding someone on skype that you don't really know in the first place. And I know this might be a moot point to most, since most people's computers were better than my old one, but I could rarely run any other programs with skype open on my old computer, especially when it was loading a fuckton of messages and such.

I'm fine with going back to the irc myself, but based on feedback in this thread, I doubt very many will follow. based on this feedback in the thread.

Edited January 5, 2013 by General Horace

[Lord Raven]

I was being pretty extreme with the "we can't do both at once" bit btw, I can't believe I posted that. As for the rest, it still holds true.

[eclipse]

Go where you guys want? I prefer IRC because it doesn't give me adverts.

[Komeiji Koishi]

I'd go to IRC, if only for ease of access. I doubt everyone will agree with that, and if that's true, so be it.

[dondon151]

I'm fine with going back to the irc myself, but based on feedback in this thread, I doubt very many will follow. based on this feedback in the thread.

when i checked yesterday there were at least like 10 people on

[General Horace]

well then i'm proved wrong.

althogh i'm super busy as of late so I won't have much time for it regardless. Nice to hear.

[Anouleth]

Skype is awful anyway

get on my level

[Baldrick]

Just noticed this discussion exists.

I don't want to get Skype because I'm an old fogey who doesn't like change or inconvenience, and IRC is sophisticated enough for my purposes. Plus I've heard Skype is a bandwidth hog. So when all the draft chat moved to Skype, I was left behind. It annoyed me because I was basically abandoning everyone because I was too stubborn to install a new program, but I didn't want to admit I was wrong about Skype being a fad. From the sounds of it, activity might be picking up so I'll be around there in the near future, but not right now since it's midnight here.

[Kiriane]

I decided I was being an old fogey and I went over to the Skype chat, because I can't really argue for IRC (or IP.chat) without having seen both sides of the issue, right?

It sucks. I want IRC back.

[Xinnidy]

When the hell have you ever been on the skype "draft" group.

[13th]

I dislike Skype in general, and prefer IRC and IP Chat.

[Kiriane]

I actually got, uh, Shinori to add me one of the times when I found him online. Still not a fan of Skype.