Ana's Art Returns!

[NobodiePichu]

ladies neck makes her look a bit like a giraffe. construction of the heads are incredibly squished especially on the lady (possibly placed a bit to high on the neck as well) and line of action looks bland and lifeless. your proportions are in the general pall park of what they need to be but the arms could stand to be a bit longer as they are a bit short (should go at least a bit past the but).

your biggest problem aside from proportions at the moment is that they feel stiff and lack life. research action lines (line of actions), and practice loosening up when ya draw as it can help.

[Anacybele]

It probably looks "bland and lifeless" because it lacks color and shading... You're not supposed to take that into account yet. I know what action lines are and did use them.

The heads are "squished?" I don't see it at all. Can you tell me what you mean, exactly? I also don't know what you mean by "loosening up" when I draw.

Good point about Mel's neck though.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Anacybele

[NobodiePichu]

It probably looks "bland and lifeless" because it lacks color and shading... You're not supposed to take that into account yet. I know what action lines are and did use them.

The heads are "squished?" I don't see it at all. Can you tell me what you mean, exactly? I also don't know what you mean by "loosening up" when I draw.

Good point about Mel's neck though.

colour is not going to help much if the foundation looks bland and lifeless. Also if you did use action lines, you probably should work on improving your use of them, which ties into what i said by loosening up. Try exaggerating or bringing out your action lines, and going more or bigger, then bringing it back in slowly until it suits your purpose.

as for the faces, well.

thats the Construction of the head you should aim for as opposed to what it is now, which they aren't at all, hence squished.

[spoiler=males head as an additional refrence]

Edited December 14, 2016 by NobodiePichu

[Anacybele]

Exaggerating my lines at first is pretty much what I already do though. I tend to draw guide lines and "skeletons" as well, though that's really more for anatomy and getting everything positioned correctly, it should still help with the action lines too.

I don't appreciate my work being called bland and lifeless, by the way. I feel that's rude. If you just said "it looks stiff, try to loosen up your lines" that would've been nicer.

I do kind of see what you mean for the female. But I don't see any difference on the male. Also, can you spoiler that female pic? It's huge.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Anacybele

[NobodiePichu]

Exaggerating my lines at first is pretty much what I already do though. I tend to draw guide lines and "skeletons" as well, though that's really more for anatomy and getting everything positioned correctly, it should still help with the action lines too.

I don't appreciate my work being called bland and lifeless, by the way. I feel that's rude. If you just said "it looks stiff, try to loosen up your lines" that would've been nicer.

I do kind of see what you mean for the female. But I don't see any difference on the male. Also, can you spoiler that female pic? It's huge.

I'd say your making excuses, but perhaps you are doing it that way so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If it is the case however then I would reccomend extensive practice and most importantly using references to improve your use of them as they could benefit greatly benefit from improvement.

As for the dudes head, it's not as prominent as the girls head but it's there. I would reccomend repositioning his head a bit lower and a bit to the left on the page, or redrawing entirely to improve the action lines and skeletal structure.

Definently work on improving your action lines though, I method to do so would be going over the top with the line of action, drawing the skeleton using that line.

[NobodiePichu]

Didn't mean to double post. Blerg.

Edited December 14, 2016 by NobodiePichu

[Anacybele]

I'd say your making excuses, but perhaps you are doing it that way so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If it is the case however then I would reccomend extensive practice and most importantly using references to improve your use of them as they could benefit greatly benefit from improvement.

As for the dudes head, it's not as prominent as the girls head but it's there. I would reccomend repositioning his head a bit lower and a bit to the left on the page, or redrawing entirely to improve the action lines and skeletal structure.

Definently work on improving your action lines though, I method to do so would be going over the top with the line of action, drawing the skeleton using that line.

Excuse me, I'm NOT making up excuses or lying about anything. I don't appreciate you accusing me of such nonsense and I'd like you to stop, thanks.

Extensive practice? What does that mean exactly? Because I don't have all the free time in the world, you know.

I don't redraw things entirely. I've tried doing so before, and it always comes out worse than the first attempt. I'll do some edits here and there, though. And your last point there is a good idea, I'll try it in the future.

[NJ7009]

I don't appreciate my work being called bland and lifeless, by the way. I feel that's rude. If you just said "it looks stiff, try to loosen up your lines" that would've been nicer.

Honestly, 'bland and lifeless' isn't all that rude. It's constructive criticism. They even provide images to show how you can improve. No offence to you Ana but you seem to have a slight tendency to take things the wrong way. Fair enough if they'd said 'This work is bland and lifeless, you suck' but 'bland' and 'lifeless' are completely valid forms of criticism. For example, if you were reviewing cakes and you called the cake 'bland' that's not rude. Not nice to hear, yes, but not rude at all.

I think it would help you a lot Ana if you tried to be a lot more critical of your work in general. I know it may sound silly and I'm no way telling you not to be proud of your pieces but the ability to look at your work and go 'This looks odd' or 'this looks stiff' will help you improve massively in the long run, in any activity that you do.

Look at that drawing of yours. What don't you like? What could you improve upon? Once you can acknowledge such flaws taking criticism is a lot easier.

Edited December 14, 2016 by NJ7009

[Anacybele]

Honestly, 'bland and lifeless' isn't all that rude. It's constructive criticism. They even provide images to show how you can improve. No offence to you Ana but you seem to have a slight tendency to take things the wrong way. Fair enough if they'd said 'This work is bland and lifeless, you suck' but 'bland' and 'lifeless' are completely valid forms of criticism. For example, if you were reviewing cakes and you called the cake 'bland' that's not rude. Not nice to hear, but not rude at all.

I think it would help you a lot Ana if you tried to be a lot more critical of your work in general. I know it may sound silly and I'm no way telling you not to be proud of your pieces but the ability to look at your work and go 'This looks odd' or 'this looks stiff' will help you improve massively in the long run, in any activity that you do.

Look at that drawing of yours. What don't you like? What could you improve upon? Once you can acknowledge such flaws taking criticism is a lot easier.

I don't have a problem with showing pictures to help me improve. That's not what I was taking issue with anyway.

Oh, I'm critical of my work at times. I even implied above that I think Melanie's curled hair strand and eye are pretty bad. lol I kind of lazed through them and kind of on purpose so I can try to make them better in the colored product. My eyes always end up looking better on the computer and sometimes my hair does as well, though I can't really explain why. And I admit that the characters do look a bit stiff overall. I planned to make them a little more dynamic on the computer. It was a rough sketch to get me started, it wasn't meant to be spectacular or perfect. I guess I should've mentioned that sooner though, so that's completely my bad.

Though it didn't help that when I was looking for references, none of the pics I could find were that helpful... At least that's what I thought. Perhaps I should look at them again.

But "bland and lifeless" doesn't equal criticism to me, I'm sorry to say. It's just what I think. It just feels no different from saying "it looks bad and boring." It's not on the level of "this sucks" you're right, but still.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Anacybele

[NobodiePichu]

I guess if you don't like bland and lifeless then I'll mention that it's bland and stiff. Look I'm trying to give you an honest opinion and advice that I feel could be really beneficial in helping you improve. If you don't want my advice or criticism then just say so.

It feels unprofessional and childish to get so upset to want an apology just because of negative or critical wording, but if that's what you want to do then so be it.

[Anacybele]

I never said anything about apologizing and nothing about my posts has been childish. I just prefer people to be civil and nice with their criticism, not rude. There's a difference. I never said I didn't want anyone's criticism or advice. There are ways to give that without being rude or offending someone.

[NobodiePichu]

There are ways to be less sensitive about receiving advice too. The point your missing is that you seem to be offended by honest criticism that was given without the intent to be rude or condescending. I was treating you as an adult and as an equal, I gave advice the way I would have preferred to be given advice, straight to the point and without sugar coating in order to store other ego.

As an artist and a person you have to be prepared to recieve criticism, sometimes from overly critical or rude individuals. You don't have to like it when people are rude or critical, but if you get upset like this you'll drive away others who genuinely want to help you or give honest opinions and feedback, and be stuck with people who only want to stroke your ego for whatever reason or people will simply lie to you and you'll never get the advice or criticism you need to improve.

I'm not a qualified art teacher or do art professionally, but if a teacher gave you advice or criticism that was honest but 'harsh' or rude would you lash out like this in such a defensive manner? I would assume you wouldn't, especially if you felt you were getting something from the lessons.

If you don't feel my advice is helpful then don't listen to it. If you feel I was rude then try and grow a thicker skin for your own sake, because suprise people can be rude. If you just want people who could help you to lie to you for whatever reason well, I can't stop you from trying to get what you want.

[Anacybele]

Hey, I knew you weren't intending to be rude, I never said you did. That's why I didn't get angry or anything. I still appreciate your trying to help and it isn't like I didn't listen to some of what you said.

As an artist and a person you have to be prepared to recieve criticism, sometimes from overly critical or rude individuals. You don't have to like it when people are rude or critical, but if you get upset like this you'll drive away others who genuinely want to help you or give honest opinions and feedback, and be stuck with people who only want to stroke your ego for whatever reason or people will simply lie to you and you'll never get the advice or criticism you need to improve.

Well of course. I've known this for a long time.

I'm not a qualified art teacher or do art professionally, but if a teacher gave you advice or criticism that was honest but 'harsh' or rude would you lash out like this in such a defensive manner? I would assume you wouldn't, especially if you felt you were getting something from the lessons.

Of course not, I'd get in a lot of trouble for that. But it doesn't mean I won't think the teacher could've been nicer rather than discouraging and rude. And I didn't "lash out" at you. It's not like I yelled or screamed, you know. I was just trying to give you critiquing advice.

If you don't feel my advice is helpful then don't listen to it. If you feel I was rude then try and grow a thicker skin for your own sake, because suprise people can be rude. If you just want people who could help you to lie to you for whatever reason well, I can't stop you from trying to get what you want.

Some of your advice was helpful, I never said none of it was... Like I said above, I listened to some of it. And duh, of course people can be rude. xP But that doesn't make it okay. Being rude and putting down an artist (not saying you did the latter or were trying to) is just discouraging and makes said artist not want to continue at all and feel like a failure. You don't have to sugarcoat everything, just be civil and polite. Get this, btw. I used to frequent a site (mainly for the writing section) and I never had any issue with any of the users' critique there. They were all so polite and helpful and nobody was rude. I left for unrelated reasons, but still.

Anyway, to show you that I've listened to some of what you said, I changed some things up in the lineart on the computer.

Shortened Mel's neck, did my best to make the faces less "squished," and did my best to make it less "lifeless and bland." I might have thought that was a rather rude way to put it, but the stiffness WAS still there, and I worked on it. Jerec's arm could probably still be a little better, but I'm not sure how to improve it further. Anyway, I even added an extra detail to Jerec's suit.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Anacybele

[NobodiePichu]

quite making excuses, that's all i have left to say.

[Anacybele]

quite making excuses, that's all i have left to say.

No one's making any excuses for anything though.

[Anacybele]

And finished at last! I actually noticed later that the flow of Melanie's dress where she's holding it was wrong, so I changed it and I think it looks better now. I also tried a slightly new technique for hair shading and I think I really like it! I cleaned up the lines more too. Background is meant to be Christmas-colored and pastel-like. I thought it worked here, especially with the sparkles!

Edited December 16, 2016 by Anacybele

[Rezzy]

I really like the hair shading. I've found doing that to be one of the hardest parts to shade properly. Also, when drawing two different characters, keeping everything in scale.

Nice sparkly background. Did you make that or was it a pattern?

The only thing that jumps out if the guy's arm seems like the sleeve is a bit tight and bulgy, but that could be okay, if it's what you're going for.

[Anacybele]

I made the bg. :)

Yeah, it's supposed to be a bit tight. Thanks, Rezzy!

[Anacybele]

New drawing! This is something I probably should've done a long time ago. lol

Spoiler

It's Ike with Elincia as his new bride! I don't know why I didn't draw this sooner, I'm the biggest Ike x Elincia fan around. lol But somehow, I picture Ike being a bit wild as a groom since he's not sophisticated or anything like other lords, so he's running away with Lincy in his arms with a big smile on his face. XD I also can definitely see him wanting to get out of those dressy clothes as soon as possible too, cause Ike definitely doesn't care to dress up. :P (this is also why he's in boots rather than dress shoes)

I don't think Lincy would mind this though, since she was hardly raised like a princess herself. And this scenario is based off of the kind of wedding they have in my headcanon anyway, where Elincia leaves Renning to rule Crimea instead and is no longer royalty (it's also why their clothes aren't extremely elaborate while still being wedding material). It takes her nearly an entire year to make this decision due to her love of Crimea and her people.

Oh, and btw, they make love later that night too...lol Hey, they waited three darned years for all this, you can't blame 'em for jumping to third base so quickly. XD

I intended for the inside of Elincia's gown to be translucent lace, but...I don't think I know how to draw it this way quite yet. xP I'll work on it in Photoshop. Could Ike's legs and feet be a bit bigger/longer too? For some reason they seem to feel a bit small. I like how this turned out so far though! I think I'm getting better at foreshortening! (see Ike's raised leg there) Background will come in Photoshop.

[Rezzy]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

New drawing! This is something I probably should've done a long time ago. lol

  Hide contents

It's Ike with Elincia as his new bride! I don't know why I didn't draw this sooner, I'm the biggest Ike x Elincia fan around. lol But somehow, I picture Ike being a bit wild as a groom since he's not sophisticated or anything like other lords, so he's running away with Lincy in his arms with a big smile on his face. XD I also can definitely see him wanting to get out of those dressy clothes as soon as possible too, cause Ike definitely doesn't care to dress up. :P (this is also why he's in boots rather than dress shoes)

I don't think Lincy would mind this though, since she was hardly raised like a princess herself. And this scenario is based off of the kind of wedding they have in my headcanon anyway, where Elincia leaves Renning to rule Crimea instead and is no longer royalty (it's also why their clothes aren't extremely elaborate while still being wedding material). It takes her nearly an entire year to make this decision due to her love of Crimea and her people.

Oh, and btw, they make love later that night too...lol Hey, they waited three darned years for all this, you can't blame 'em for jumping to third base so quickly. XD

I intended for the inside of Elincia's gown to be translucent lace, but...I don't think I know how to draw it this way quite yet. xP I'll work on it in Photoshop. Could Ike's legs and feet be a bit bigger/longer too? For some reason they seem to feel a bit small. I like how this turned out so far though! I think I'm getting better at foreshortening! (see Ike's raised leg there) Background will come in Photoshop.

Nice, I don't think it's ever mentioned in the Tellius Saga, but does Renning have any kids?  That would make Elincia be next in line for succession, anyway, even before Ashnard invaded.

[Anacybele]

Thanks, Rezzy! No, Renning's not stated to have any kids. I myself won't write him with any either. I thought it'd be interesting if he actually failed to find a wife and produce heirs, resulting in a conflict surrounding who would take the throne after him with Elincia gone. One side demands that either Elincia or one of her children take the crown and another argues that none of them should be forced and that a new ruler should be decided amongst the nobles in a civil manner.

I know, I know, RD mentions the whole golden age thing with Elincia, but my headcanon is somewhat AU, so...

[Rezzy]

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Thanks, Rezzy! No, Renning's not stated to have any kids. I myself won't write him with any either. I thought it'd be interesting if he actually failed to find a wife and produce heirs, resulting in a conflict surrounding who would take the throne after him with Elincia gone. One side demands that either Elincia or one of her children take the crown and another argues that none of them should be forced and that a new ruler should be decided amongst the nobles in a civil manner.

I know, I know, RD mentions the whole golden age thing with Elincia, but my headcanon is somewhat AU, so...

Since Ike abandoned Tellius, I'm not a big fan of the canon ending, anyway.

I'm not sure how old Renning is supposed to be, but he's got to be at least in his 40s, probably 50s.  Considering Fire Emblem seems to have pseudo-medieval life expectancies, he need to get an heir right away, lest he risk dying with a child as next in line or none at all.

Headbandless Ike always throws me off. :P

[Anacybele]

15 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Since Ike abandoned Tellius, I'm not a big fan of the canon ending, anyway.

I'm not sure how old Renning is supposed to be, but he's got to be at least in his 40s, probably 50s.  Considering Fire Emblem seems to have pseudo-medieval life expectancies, he need to get an heir right away, lest he risk dying with a child as next in line or none at all.

Headbandless Ike always throws me off. :P

I hate that ending too. It makes no sense for him when he values his family and the mercenaries above everything and no reason for him to leave was even established.

Yeah, I figure by the time my Ike x Elincia kids are teen years, Renning is probably in his 60s. Some FE characters appear to live a long time though (well, not counting people like manaketes, I mean).  I mean, take all those old man mugs and portraits, and characters like Hetzel, FE6 Marcus, and Old Hubba. They all look at least 60. And if I remember my world history right, life expectancy in medieval times was barely 40.

Haha, yeah, we rarely see Ike without his trademark headband!

Edited January 25, 2017 by Anacybele

[Rezzy]

9 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I hate that ending too. It makes no sense for him when he values his family and the mercenaries above everything and no reason for him to leave was even established.

Yeah, I figure by the time my Ike x Elincia kids are teen years, Renning is probably in his 60s. Some FE characters appear to live a long time though (well, not counting people like manaketes, I mean).  I mean, take all those old man mugs and portraits, and characters like Hetzel, FE6 Marcus, and Old Hubba. They all look at least 60. And if I remember my world history right, life expectancy in medieval times was barely 40.

Haha, yeah, we rarely see Ike without his trademark headband!

Life expectancy was a bit weird in the middle ages.  Childhood mortality was insanely high, but if you lived to be 20, you had a good chance at reaching 50.  After that, life expectancy plummeted, even for the upper class.  If you looks at the age of death for English monarchs, not a single one reached age 70 before the 1800s.  There was the occasional person who lived to 80 or so, but it was extremely rare.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

Life expectancy was a bit weird in the middle ages.  Childhood mortality was insanely high, but if you lived to be 20, you had a good chance at reaching 50.  After that, life expectancy plummeted, even for the upper class.  If you looks at the age of death for English monarchs, not a single one reached age 70 before the 1800s.  There was the occasional person who lived to 80 or so, but it was extremely rare.

Huh, yeah, that is some weirdness right there. We also have to keep in mind that the FE world has magic though, which makes a lot of normally impossible stuff possible, like healing wounds up right away and probably better medicine too.