Feaw Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I never claimed I'd be able to make the hair look curly. But I am, however, sure that it is possible to do, and that I think it'd look better and more in line with how she intends to the character to look like. Even if I can't fully know how to do things /myself/ doesn't mean that I can't say that it could be like that, especially when I /know/ others will be able to pull that off.If she is satisfied with her work, then that's fine. We are just trying to help her improve. If she is fine being static, then that's her decision. It also depends on how one conducts themselves, though, and she often has trouble doing that in a good manner, and that's why people will get on her case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Oh, hey, it's yet another one of these discussions*. Here's the skinny, Ana: You can't take critique. Ah, ah, ah, wait. Before you pull that "But I already did try this and this" bit - let me finish. Using the tactic of only changing a couple insignificant things does not constitute "taking critique." That's cherry picking, and on the whole, it does very little to contribute to the overall end product. Quite frankly, you're terrible at taking critique. This is not an insult - this is simply an observation. You're highly opinionated, very stubborn, most importantly of all - incredibly defensive. Critique is not meant to be an attack on your views - it is an observation from an outside viewer. It's someone else's view. Your view is, unfortunately, not always right. In fact, it's really not often right, if these repeated discussions are any indication. You refuse to acknowledge others because you think you know what's best, or, rather you think you know what's "good enough". This point - that is, what you consider "good enough" - is what is holding you back. This is why people say you're impeding your own improvement. Because you always stop at "good enough" or "it looks fine to me." You can't get better just by looking at what looks good to just you, because you get pigeonholed by what you know and what you like. You're not stepping out of your zone. The entire point of learning is to get out of that box of yours and maybe step into someone else's, or let someone else step into yours and help you make your box bigger. But, no, you shut people out once you've had enough. They dip a finger or a toe in, and then you say it's enough because you feel like your space is being infringed on. And, well, yes, maybe it is, but that's how you get better. You grumble about it in the corner while people muck with your space, but in the end, we're only trying to help. We are not here to sabotage you. We're not here to attack you. All of that is self-inflicted victimization. We're tough with you because you've built up this huge, stupid shell, and we have to work really fuckin' hard to get through it. We're not infringing your personal style. We're trying to make it better for you. This is absolutely about you, Ana. So maybe you could be just a little more willing to try things out rather than simply just "consider it." Fuckin' TRY it. Show us your failures. Show us your mistakes. We will absolutely fucking help you. The fact people still post in this absolute shitstorm of a topic is testament to the fact that we'd like to see you do better, because maybe you're capable of it, but you're just so goddamned thickheaded that the effort needed to get there is astronomical. You are not the victim, Ana, and we're not the villains. We're just people trying to help out, so maybe you could be a little more open with us, too. *Here, "discussions" is used euphemistically to indicate some form of tact from the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I see you generally still have the same attitude as years ago. Uh, no, I don't. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't listen to anyone else's critique. I listened to what people said above and edited the sprite with some of their suggestions, didn't I? Sorry if I suddenly sound hostile here, but I really hate it when people accuse me of acting like I did years ago, because I've worked very hard at NOT being like that anymore and other people have told me that I have indeed changed a lot. Sorry to barge in on this parade of happiness, but judging by the fact that through almost all of the critique I've seen, you generally don't take criticism all that well. I'll go ahead and admit that I didn't either for a while, but enough about me. Point is, these people tried to give you help on your work, and you responded with a generally bad mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Lord Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Literally the only reason I post in this thread is because I used to be shitty at taking critique, and now I'm less shitty at it, and I had kind of the same problem so I think that there's the same solution here too if you're just willing to try other people's ideas, even if you think they're dumb When I said love yourself it was a witticism implying that by being so stubborn and not trying silly and crazy things, you're hurting yourself. People who love themselves dont do things that hurt themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 lol i think everyone but ana is in the wrong here. i agree with you all, but she does not want your input, so just leave the thread lol. its as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feaw Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 > you're all wrong> i agree with you alluh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I guess what I was trying to say? Don't just say "this is bad, that's bad, kthxbai". Say what's good about it. It's much easier to swallow critique if there's some praise there too. Let people know what they're doing right so they don't feel that they suck/they need to change every little thing. The reason these kind of conversations happen all the time is the professional spriters seem to prefer telling people what they did wrong without saying what they did right. And...the constant F bombs don't help. I don't mind swearing but...picture yourself as a teacher in a school. If you constantly told the students "you need to fucking try it, we'll fucking help you" you wouldn't keep your job long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feaw Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I said she made a good attempt, and that it wasn't bad. Tbh, there wasn't much in there for me to praise since it was pretty mediocre, hence why we are giving critique. I will praise anything that is deemed to be, I love praising things and people, but I will also always be honest. I also try to be tactful with what I say, unlike years back. But sometimes you just have to be blunt and on point to get through people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Lord Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Lol if you dont have a thick enough skull to handle fuck then you probably dont have a thick enough skull to handle critique from people on this forum If something is worth praising, I'll praise it. for example: nice job using a reference of the zebra (can I see the ref pls) But I'm not going to find things that I like about it just so I can say something that's wrong about it, or something that I think could be improved This is not rocket surgery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Bzzt Increased activity detected in sprite thread bzzt Investigating.... Oh, hey! I like the stripes on the zebra. The stripes on the face lack the hugging-the-contours that the body has. lol i think everyone but ana is in the wrong here. i agree with you all, but she does not want your input, so just leave the thread lol. its as simple as that. Wat Edited May 21, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I guess what I was trying to say? Don't just say "this is bad, that's bad, kthxbai". Say what's good about it. It's much easier to swallow critique if there's some praise there too. Let people know what they're doing right so they don't feel that they suck/they need to change every little thing. The reason these kind of conversations happen all the time is the professional spriters seem to prefer telling people what they did wrong without saying what they did right. And...the constant F bombs don't help. I don't mind swearing but...picture yourself as a teacher in a school. If you constantly told the students "you need to fucking try it, we'll fucking help you" you wouldn't keep your job long. Have you not read the comments? Everyone who initially gave critique noted something good about her sprite. I didn't, but that's because I don't feel the need to give someone a cookie every time they do something. And none of us are professionally paid teachers (at least not to my knowledge) we are fellow artists, and we want to see each other improve. And if you're pointing out F bombs when they have nothing to do with the overall conversation then I think you do have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 > you're all wrong > i agree with you all uh... Wat What I meant was that while I do agree with you all, I believe the effort you're putting into trying to get her to change is going to waste. Especially since this happens as frequently as it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feaw Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Oh I totally agree with you, it does seem to go to waste, and that's why I'm increasingly inclined to not give a... hoot anymore (as to not be swearing). But because we care about her improving, we continue to do what we do. We can all stop caring, but then so will te very thread, and my will it get lonely then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teapot Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) lol i think everyone but ana is in the wrong here. i agree with you all, but she does not want your input, so just leave the thread lol. its as simple as that. What I meant was that while I do agree with you all, I believe the effort you're putting into trying to get her to change is going to waste. Especially since this happens as frequently as it does. Alternatively, I'd like to add that because Ana posts things, she's automatically open to commentary, whether good or bad. If she doesn't want critique, she can just not post. It's as simple as that. Edited May 21, 2015 by Etain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Uh, wow, I never expected a big debate to erupt overnight... Not going to respond to anyone in particular since there's too much I could quote. But I'll say this: Yes, I'm stubborn, defensive, and opinionated. It's part of my personality. I'm not going to change who I am. Yes, I used to suck at taking critique too, I know exactly what that's about. But I actually listen to it and take it if I can now. If I can't/don't agree with it, I politely decline it like I did Feaw's. That's the end of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 You really should be less defensive though-- Oh whatever. Whatever whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Uh, wow, I never expected a big debate to erupt overnight... Not going to respond to anyone in particular since there's too much I could quote. But I'll say this: Yes, I'm stubborn, defensive, and opinionated. It's part of my personality. I'm not going to change who I am. Yes, I used to suck at taking critique too, I know exactly what that's about. But I actually listen to it and take it if I can now. If I can't/don't agree with it, I politely decline it like I did Feaw's. That's the end of it. This. Declining the critique should be an option. It's part of giving and recieving critique the right way. We have every right to say: "I disagree with this and this, but I will change this and this." Don't expect everything to be changed. Maybe I am guilty of not reading everything and assuming there was no positive feedback. Maybe none of us are teachers, but still. If somebody constantly throws f bombs at me I find it hard to take them seriously and it just looks like they're being mean. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. I can handle it, but there's a time and a place. And I post in here because I had the same thing happen in my sprite thread. No matter what I did, it was still wrong. People told me to stop using the mauthe doog base because it's a bad base. Then lo and behold, I see a Caineghis sprite in one of SoC's animation vids. Guess what the base was? It just seems hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Then lo and behold, I see a Caineghis sprite in one of SoC's animation vids. Guess what the base was? It just seems hypocritical. That was a horribly old animation in a horribly old video that is horribly outdated and could use a horribly good update. Bad example point. The mauthe doog is still a really shitty base for almost anything laguz. Edited May 21, 2015 by I have opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) You really should be less defensive though-- Oh whatever. Whatever whatever Believe me, I would love that. I don't like being as defensive as I am. I've tried toning it down. But so far, I've found it to be too difficult. I'm just learning to accept it and get on with life. Also, Dcat's got the right of it. And I do kind of agree that the Mauthe Doog is a bad base, but it can still be used effectively. It just needs kind of a big overhaul to look like a good laguz sprite. Edited May 21, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feaw Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 You have all the right to decline criticism, but all we are saying is that it will usually hinder you more than it helps you. And yes you were polite at first, but after that, things went a bit sour. Anyways I think we spoke enough about this now, let's just try to give it all a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Right, moving on... Dcat made me want to pick up this old mug and fix it up nice. :P Despite that he's only JUST appeared in my FE fic, Dawn of Darkness, I created this guy a long time ago to use in RPs. His name's Kenth and he's a red dragon laguz. In fact, he's a womanizing laguz. Never saw a shapeshifting womanizer in the FE series, did we? I felt like making one! Kenth isn't as all out as Sain or Inigo or Virion though, he's more of a casual womanizer. He'll go introduce himself to some women he finds attractive, say something like "My, there are some lovely faces around me today!" and stuff, and if they want to be left alone or whatever, he moves on. When he gets women into him though, he actually doesn't mind...group shenanigans. lol He considers himself to be pretty good-looking as well. He has a catchphrase too, btw. "Hey, as a red dragon, one could say I'm...smoking hot." Since this was an old mug it's mostly a basic splice. Took Hector's face, put it on Geitz's body, and gave him a generic villager guy's hair (though somewhat altered). Also, yes, I'm aware that the dragon laguz we've seen so far all have their dragon mark on their head, but I decided Kenth's a special case and his mark is on his left shoulder instead. Edited June 3, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He's a simple splice, but still looks awesome. Quite tan...he must be out in the sun a lot xD Gareth is tan though, but Ena isn't...I'm wondering if I should make Rannoc tan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yeah, I made Kenth tan because Gareth, Nasir and Ena are all pretty tan. The black dragons are too, except for Kurthnaga. I figured it must be a common thing in dragons. Kurthnaga though, he must stay indoors a lot...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I guess it must be pretty sunny in Goldoa and I can probably get away with not having him tan because he's always roaming around outside the country. Idk. I've never really considered skin tone when I make my OCs. Would be cool if you gave him a different hair color so he doesn't look so generic, maybe brown...but he is a generic soldier, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 He's not really generic, no. You're right, he'd look less generic if he had a different hair color, but I've gotten used to him being a redhead. xP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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