1-6-2 and 1-8 hard mode, possible to rescue all prisoners?

[Dr. Silent]

A) Volug is one of the best BD units so building his rank is completely justified.

B) His stat superiority usually causes him to take exp mostly others not named Sothe are unable to obtain in a timely fashion.

C) I am not spending any more time in the hell that is part 1 than I must to let people have exp obtained in untimely fashion.

D) Miccy is not good Mount/Armour assassin, her tome is. And that won't need any exp to be effective in part 1. Part 3 is so low on targets her nuking is pointless even if you do level her sorry ass up.

E) Use her as healer because she can do that with 0 exp points. Considering how big of a number you make of part 1 exp, it clearly cannot be anything but good.

F) No amount of training makes her stand up to Laguz.

G) Unless you burn million and 1 points of exp on her, she is doubled and OHKO/ORKO'd by pretty much anything outside mages.

H) Just because she can use that tome doesn't mean she is good with it. The fact that last 3 bosses have 40 or more Res does not help her case. All she can do with it is finish off a red dragon and that map is over in 2 turns tops unless you feel like begging to be group raped by dragons.

A) I see little need to do so. He's good as a support unit in Part 1 and 3. That's about it. I see no reason to use him over 4-E units (one of which has to be Micaiah anyway). Plus he suffers from 'transform metre', and in a team with so few good units it isn't exactly handy for one you've made your team so reliant upon to be eating Olivi Grass every other turn.

B) + C) Failing to make any sense of what you said, other than the fact that you seem to want to clear Part 1 as quickly possible (and it isn't exactly 'hell'...play through it with the right strategies and it isn't all that bad)

D) Her tome is, therefore she is, so I don't see what you're getting at. Nobody else can use that tome. Since most members of Micaiah's team can't reliably double-attack/ORKO, she can finish enemies off as well as anyone.

E) Using her purely as a healer is fine. Unless you level her up a whole lot though, she isn't exactly going to be a great one (especially if you don't use her at all in Part 1).

F) Aside from Janaff/Ulki/Skrimir, I don't find non-royal offensive laguz to be very useful. The only laguz going into the final chapter are royals. Bringing any others is pointless as high-trained Beorc with high stats and uber weapons are going to do much better there.

G) Completely dependant on her Speed growth. I'll agree it's unreliable, but then again Ike has exactly the same Speed growth yet nobody moans about his (yes, I am aware his base Speed is good, but if his growth messes up he's not going to enjoy it).

H) An extra attacking option doesn't hurt especially since she's an essential unit. And 4-E-3 isn't very difficult even if you don't rush straight to Deghinsea...

Long story short, I've never had much trouble training and using Micaiah in Hard mdoe.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

A) Volug has great bulk, speed and offence. All he needs is to S rank Strike. His base stats are so good he cannot be fucked up. Besides of the 3 part 3 maps he is in, 2 are practically completely 1 range enemies. That makes his weed usage much much more easier to handle. The simple fact that he is more reliable than pretty much any other DB in part 3 is why he deserves the rank.

B) Volugs stats are so good that the tier 1 BD units simply cannot kill the stuff he can.

C) I do not want to drag part 1 for too long because its the hardestpart of the game. Simple.

D) The point is that she nukes at part 1 without the exp and is bad at it anyway after that. That is no excuse to give her exp when its not that plenty to begin with.

E) She is wonderful healer with no leveling up. The staffs do most of the work for her. In this game you are good staffer by simply having staff and proper rank.

F) I am talking of ENEMY Laguz. You know those that get S rank and doubled HM bonuses because how transformation works? Yeah those.

H) Her speed average is bad unlike Ike and thanks to that she more often than not is shitty at it. If we are to assume she get good speed we might say Edward gets good def. and that is not happening any time soon.

G) She is a shitty extra attack option that takes too much precious exp to even get there. Miccy still has the issue of wasting that limited exp only to be shitty unit. Anything she does with the exp is better of used in Volug's rank.

[Dr. Silent]

Okay, next time I play through Hard mode, I will trying using Volug and ignoring Micaiah. Won't be for a while now (halfway through a Normal mode playthrough atm and am itching to play PoR afterwards) but I'll give it a go.

[Silith]

Nephenee does not double right off the bat and does pitifull damage if not using her starting weapon which weighs her down a lot.

Aran won't double anytime but he has a decent 1-hit and a good defence growth.

[aku chi]

Okay, next time I play through Hard mode, I will trying using Volug and ignoring Micaiah. Won't be for a while now (halfway through a Normal mode playthrough atm and am itching to play PoR afterwards) but I'll give it a go.

Don't ignore Micaiah. She is useful for Thani-bombing and healing. But she's useful at those tasks without purposefully diverting resources into her.

Something else that wasn't mentioned in the above back-and-forth: A-Strike Halfshifted Volug comes just short of 2HKOing many units in Part 1. This means that Volug can increase his Strike rank and still leave the kill for a tier 1 DB unit. If, instead, you want to Volug to 2HKO most every unit in Part 1 (and OHKO Mages!), the Energy Drop is a good investment (+3 Str in Part 1, +4 Str beyond).

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Don't ignore Micaiah. She is useful for Thani-bombing and healing. But she's useful at those tasks without purposefully diverting resources into her.

This very much

[Dr. Silent]

Nephenee does not double right off the bat and does pitifull damage if not using her starting weapon which weighs her down a lot.

Aran won't double anytime but he has a decent 1-hit and a good defence growth.

Hmm...maybe I used PoR transfer data, I can't remember. But she does well with or without. Plus, it's really easy for her to gain levels in 2-E, too. Stand her on the ledge above where the wall breaks and throw Javelins at the enemies below for the entire chapter. She'll easily gain 3-4 levels throughout the course of the chapter. Whether or not she kills the enemies is irrelevant - in Hard mode the amount of Exp you get for merely battling enemies is pretty similar to what you get for killing them anyway (unless you don't hit them). As far as Lance users in Ike's team go, she's a better option than Gatrie, and has plenty of time to build an A support with any member of Ike's uber crew. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, Nephenee's base Strength (without PoR data) is 17. Stl Greatlance has a weight of 18. That hardly weighs her down.

Aran is good with Volug support. +30 Avoid (I think) combined with his Defence makes him awesome in 3-6 and 3-13, but you can't realistically train up three unpromoted units in Part 1 (I know I said I use Micaiah in addition to Nolan and Jill but Micaiah at least can one-shot some common enemy types, which include some bosses, with Thani). Really, if you use both Nephenee and Aran throughout the game, Nephenee is going to be much faster, and at a higher level, thus Aran really isn't worth it. Jill and Nolan will both outclass Haar and Boyd, respectively, at third tier. Aran won't outclass Nephenee. Therefore, the choice is simple. I've tried them both in Hard mode, and that's the conclusion I came to. Oh well...if you don't like Nephenee and cba to train Aran, you can always use Devdan (LOL!).

[aku chi]

Nephenee starts with 15 Str (http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/nephenee.html). You must be thinking of transfer Nephenee, who is clearly better than Aran - and makes a much stronger case at being better than Gatrie.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

How do you outclass something that kills everything, never dies, has best movement in the game and flies?

[eclipse]

How do you outclass something that kills everything, never dies, has best movement in the game and flies?

Stop resetting, because just about everything has a weakness - depending on what you're describing, it's either arrows or Thunder.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

ok fine

How do you outclass something that kills everything, never dies expect to Thunder, has best movement in the game and flies when you die to Thunder?

[eclipse]

ok fine

How do you outclass something that kills everything, never dies expect to Thunder, has best movement in the game and flies when you die to Thunder?

That's better, even if it's kinda redundant.

[Baldrick]

How do you outclass something that kills everything, never dies expect to Thunder, has best movement in the game and flies when you die to Thunder?

At 20/20/1:

       HP  Str  Mag Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res  
Haar  52.7 31.0 6.5 28.0 24.7 17.1 28.0 12.8
Jill  42.5 27.3 9.0 26.3 27.0 29.0 26.8 18 

Given Jill doubles more often, and is the same class as Haar, It's basically Haar's physical durability vs. Jill's better dodge, cev and damage (eventually) against thunder (and all other magic fwiw). Jill could be considered more well-rounded, especially since Haar get somewhat overshadowed later on.

I'm aware that Haar takes less effort to get to third tier, and has his second tier performance.

[nflchamp]

At 20/20/1:

       HP  Str  Mag Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res  
Haar  52.7 31.0 6.5 28.0 24.7 17.1 28.0 12.8
Jill  42.5 27.3 9.0 26.3 27.0 29.0 26.8 18 

Given Jill doubles more often, and is the same class as Haar, It's basically Haar's physical durability vs. Jill's better dodge, cev and damage (eventually) against thunder (and all other magic fwiw). Jill could be considered more well-rounded, especially since Haar get somewhat overshadowed later on.

I'm aware that Haar takes less effort to get to third tier, and has his second tier performance.

And a level lead, in all likely hood. Comparing stats of units at the same level is rarely useful.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Yeah Haar hits tier 3 far earlier. Also the difference is minimal when both still do that thing I said.

[MacLovin]

Haar is Seth+Wyvern-Swords+Axes-10% speed growths+steroids in alot of other growths.

Thunder MAgic being a threat, lol.

[Baldrick]

And a level lead, in all likely hood. Comparing stats of units at the same level is rarely useful.

I'd imagine that if you're seriously going to use a DB unit in Part 4, they'd be third tier. Haar isn't going to have more than 3-4 levels on her, which increases his physical advantage and puts speed at about parity, but Jill is still better against mages, so she's not completely outclassed.

Also the difference is minimal when both still do that thing I said.

True dat. The obvious solution is to use both.

[PKL]

Who cares if Jill is better against mages? The amount of magic enemies you face in this game is really low. Most of them can be outmanuevered with Haar's move anyway or OHKO'd before they can do anything :3. Also, pure water. Thunder sages shouldnt be a threat to Haar if used right.

[Baldrick]

It's a niche advantage frankly. But mistakes/misses can happen.

[CrashGordon94]

While Haar seems to be a lot better outside of Endgame (Since he doesn't get the magic 34 Speed cap but Jill does), Jill's definitely very good in her own right.

Edited September 7, 2012 by CrashGordon94

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Not that the cap even makes them that much different when both are still awesome at other endgames than the very last. Granted Jill is better there.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Kore wa Sho desu ka?

[Anouleth]

Haar is Seth+Wyvern-Swords+Axes-10% speed growths+steroids in alot of other growths.

The comparison is not apt at all.

Who cares if Jill is better against mages? The amount of magic enemies you face in this game is really low. Most of them can be outmanuevered with Haar's move anyway or OHKO'd before they can do anything :3.

That is only practical on Easy or Normal Mode. On Hard Mode, Sages have enough strength and defense that Haar would need to be extremely overlevelled to OHKO one. For example, the Thunder Sages in 3-3 have 33HP/12DEF, so Haar would need to be level 20 (after only three chapters, lol) in order to OHKO with a forge.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Anouleth

[Silith]

Hmm...maybe I used PoR transfer data, I can't remember. But she does well with or without. Plus, it's really easy for her to gain levels in 2-E, too. Stand her on the ledge above where the wall breaks and throw Javelins at the enemies below for the entire chapter. She'll easily gain 3-4 levels throughout the course of the chapter. Whether or not she kills the enemies is irrelevant - in Hard mode the amount of Exp you get for merely battling enemies is pretty similar to what you get for killing them anyway (unless you don't hit them). As far as Lance users in Ike's team go, she's a better option than Gatrie, and has plenty of time to build an A support with any member of Ike's uber crew. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, Nephenee's base Strength (without PoR data) is 17. Stl Greatlance has a weight of 18. That hardly weighs her down.

Aran is good with Volug support. +30 Avoid (I think) combined with his Defence makes him awesome in 3-6 and 3-13, but you can't realistically train up three unpromoted units in Part 1 (I know I said I use Micaiah in addition to Nolan and Jill but Micaiah at least can one-shot some common enemy types, which include some bosses, with Thani). Really, if you use both Nephenee and Aran throughout the game, Nephenee is going to be much faster, and at a higher level, thus Aran really isn't worth it. Jill and Nolan will both outclass Haar and Boyd, respectively, at third tier. Aran won't outclass Nephenee. Therefore, the choice is simple. I've tried them both in Hard mode, and that's the conclusion I came to. Oh well...if you don't like Nephenee and cba to train Aran, you can always use Devdan (LOL!).

Nephenee has 15 str with a pretty low growth. In 2-1 she cannot face off against the enemies so Brom has to do most wqork unless you are reset happy to get those Wrath hits in.

In 2-2 she doesn't have the offensive punch to rush through and get Lucia on the spot at turn 6. She'll help of course but it won't be much exp. Reliably if you used her a lot she'dd be level 3 at 2-E. Which is either done in 1 turn or in 3 turns. (In which you can get the dracoshield and the drop reliably.) So yes Nephenee will be able to rain down a single Javelin down for 1 turn tops. She'll appear in 3-2 as a level 3 Halbedier and immediately is worse then almost everyone there. Happy benching.

For the Aran thing. He's in my opinion the best pick for a 3th unit on the DB though many like Edward or Zihark (and apparently like to reset because dodge is not reliable). He has hit issues while leveling and is not always able to smoothly get to that magical 15 speed before chapter 3-6.

Now if you look at capped stats and endgame usability then Nephenee wins by 1 point. Which is that single speed point that Aran's cap is coming short of getting 34 speed. If he could get 34 he'dd beat her over there too.

[CrashGordon94]

Not that the cap even makes them that much different when both are still awesome at other endgames than the very last. Granted Jill is better there.

Jill can double bosses.

[Dr. Silent]

Nephenee has 15 str with a pretty low growth. In 2-1 she cannot face off against the enemies so Brom has to do most wqork unless you are reset happy to get those Wrath hits in.

In 2-2 she doesn't have the offensive punch to rush through and get Lucia on the spot at turn 6. She'll help of course but it won't be much exp. Reliably if you used her a lot she'dd be level 3 at 2-E. Which is either done in 1 turn or in 3 turns. (In which you can get the dracoshield and the drop reliably.) So yes Nephenee will be able to rain down a single Javelin down for 1 turn tops. She'll appear in 3-2 as a level 3 Halbedier and immediately is worse then almost everyone there. Happy benching.

For the Aran thing. He's in my opinion the best pick for a 3th unit on the DB though many like Edward or Zihark (and apparently like to reset because dodge is not reliable). He has hit issues while leveling and is not always able to smoothly get to that magical 15 speed before chapter 3-6.

Now if you look at capped stats and endgame usability then Nephenee wins by 1 point. Which is that single speed point that Aran's cap is coming short of getting 34 speed. If he could get 34 he'dd beat her over there too.

Brom isn't exactly going to double-attack anything, you know. Brom weakens, Nephenee kills. Best strategy.

And we're trying to beat it in 6 turns because...? Unlike Easy and Normal, Mordecai can't kill most of the enemies in a single hit, and isn't fast enough to double. He attacks, Nephenee finishes them off. You're not exactly ever going to be using Brom, Lethe and Nealuchi again either way. Mordecai, Nephenee, Brom, Leanne and Lethe take the south path, Lucia solos the north. 2-E is irrelevant. Depends how you want to play it.

I agree that Aran > Edward/Zihark.