Fe10 Balancing attempt! [Subject #3 - Bastian]

[charmander6000]

I assume this is more about balancing than trying to make a unit as best as possible or else discussion will devolve into 100% growth rate, massive caps etc.

With my experience Aran starting with C lances and a Steel Lance is helpful for his start (and that you don't need to forge an iron one at 1-4 thus he can compete offensively). After that he's only a problem during 3-6 and only if he's speed screwed where he is doubled tigers. A +1-2 in speed or a 10% increase to his speed growth should make the problem less likely to occur.

[Junkhead]

What is 'FE10 RR'? Also, I disagree with a few ideas thrown around there. The ones that I remember of the top of my head:

"increase micaiah's spd and spd growth" - Even if her Spd is increased, it doesn't make her much better in combat. I doubt she'll be able to double consistently unless you REALLY buff it, and as far as I see it, Micaiah doesn't seem like that kind of unit. She's already good enough being able to 1HKO Knights/Generals and Cavaliers/Paladins, the former which are no slouch. And then there's her healing utlity, which she can do just fine even with 0% growths.

"increase sage caps" - The only cap really worth mentioning to buff is of course, Spd. But like Micaiah's case, it seems just right where it currently is. It's not like 34+ AS is really going to make much of a difference during the whole game. Their caps enable them to double most of the important enemies while hitting moderately hard. If anything, it's the characters assigned to those classes who tend to have mediocre bases/growths (Micaiah, Soren, Ilyana, Sanaki).

"give [insert character name] more availability" - While I completely agree that characters like Tormod's crew, Lucia and Tauroneo more availability, I think people might be asking a little too much from other characters.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Walpurgisnacht

[NinjaMonkey]

What is 'FE10 RR'?

FE10 Reverse Recruitment.

[Vorena]

Hey Sal. Well, for one, Aran starts at D lances with bases that arent really spectacular...his spd growth is terrible and he's not really a shorterm (terrible start) or longterm unit (terrible ending). The amount of babying he needs to even get to Tier 2, only to never be able to double is ridiculous. He only has massive str skl def growths going for him, which wont get him anywhere in time to be useful. I'd say give him C lances, a steel lance in his starting inventory and slightly better his bases so he can cap str skl def quicker so BEXP'ing his spd isnt as tough. Btw, is this balancing for HM or just in general?

From a casual run perspective, Part1 units do not make end game positions. At the very least, you cannot get many to 3rd tier without specific bonus experience usage and excessive babying to a particular unit. There is no even spread of say 4-5 characters with Dawn Brigade and expect them to make it out of part 3 fully 3rd tier promoted. Many of the Greil Mercenaries units can by the same time are already 3rd tier promoted and well into 3rd tier levels. Aran has too much of a speed issue to correct his usefulness in endgame. So, I would say give him C in lance as you said PKL and equip a steel lance. And increase his base level to 11. This brings him to 26 hp, 13 str, 0 mag, 15 skl, 11.4 spd, 7.5 lck, 13.8 def, 3 res. The only other adjustment might be to bump up his speed by 45% speed. This way he is immediately helpful as an extra wall doing high damage and tanking hits. His speed increase I think is enough that given same level as enemies he will not be getting doubled, but he could be doubling with a favoritism.

[eclipse]

I'll agree with upping his weapon rank to C. I think it would also help if he got HM bonuses (namely, HP/Speed so he doesn't require lots of luck and a Speedwing to avoid being doubled by tigers, and can take a couple of kitty hits), just so he'll continue to be viable in whatever difficulty he's recruited on (since he's one of the few enemy recruits, he can get away with it).

[ClLoulD]

Buff his speed growth by like 10%

[Esaka]

Amp speed growth up by 10%

Up his bases by one or two points each... and c lances.

[Vicious Sal]

No comments on needing an additional skill? Con, Wt, and non attacking etc? Affinity?

I'd like to take all factors into account, currently the general consensus seems obvious enough and I'll put that into the excel doc, but how about the additional stuff?

[PKL]

No comments on needing an additional skill? Con, Wt, and non attacking etc? Affinity?

I'd like to take all factors into account, currently the general consensus seems obvious enough and I'll put that into the excel doc, but how about the additional stuff?

Imo, you have to be really careful with giving skills to characters. Remember that in FE10 you can unequip them so others can use it to, so you have to take that into account when balancing. As for other suggestions, none that come to mind really.

[Vicious Sal]

Imo, you have to be really careful with giving skills to characters. Remember that in FE10 you can unequip them so others can use it to, so you have to take that into account when balancing. As for other suggestions, none that come to mind really.

I'm not advocating on giving aran a skill per se, since swapping more skills than we already have would be OP for skill combo's, but the point shouldn't remain entirely mute IMHO. [best example would be Leonardo with a cancel skill, but we'll get there later].

I'll add a second Excel file with the changes soon, and tomorrow I'd like to go to astrid. =]

[BBM]

But like PKL said, unless Leonardo gets buffed quite a bit (which he probably will regardless) I can't see people actually keeping Cancel on him.

[Jotari]

Cancel is just annoying on him anyway regardless of his stats. You shouldn't really be expecting a counter attack hitting your archers.

[NTNP]

If Leo was designed to be THE crossbow user of the game then a lot of things might make more sense. Like imagine if during one of the earlier chapters if he gained a blow gun (24ATK) such as from one of the chests during Laura's introduction chapter. If that had been the case and we gained a secondary blow gun in say 1-7 and then a purchasable version of the cross bow (28 ATK) for Ch.1 Endgame then Leo's choice of skills would make some sense. Oddly enough it would fix the vast majority of his issues all the way around making him essentially a very powerful (24-28ATK) 1-2 range attacker with passable defense and resistance, a skill that allows him to negate counter attacks and enough base speed to consistently 2RKO many enemies in the first half of the chapter and then 2-3RKO during the latter half of the chapter. Plus it would put him into a similar position as Nolan when it came to fighting the laguz in Ch.3 with beastfoe.

[charmander6000]

1st tier archers can't use crossbows though

[shadykid]

buff vantage to FE9 levels, Leonardo become immortal in 3-6 and 3-13

oh man balancing earlygame archers, that's a tough one

[eclipse]

Uh, I'd rather not randomly slap skills on Aran. Let's see if THIS works first, then fiddle with stuff later.

[Vorena]

:Perhaps you shoiuld allow for multiple characters at one time if you plan on getting this done lol

[Vicious Sal]

Astrid is open for discussion, I'll get to the adjustments of aran in a bit when I upload the Changes Excel document.

[MacLovin]

Raise ALL bases by like +7 or +10.

Give her A bows at base.

Raise her growths by +5%

[charmander6000]

The main issue with the CRKs in general is their availability, they essentially have very little time to train before they join up with Ike's group. In my world I would make 2-3 give decent experience (likely mean increasing the opponents levels) and create an additional map where the CRK minus Marcia who ran up ahead get stopped by Ludvek's ambush and must arrive before a certain turn so that they can reach Elincia during 2-E.

Since that is a bit much to ask, raising the CRK's base level by 3 and adding stats rounding up (so 1.3 would go up to 2) would be fine.

Astrid IMO still needs a boost since her bases are rather terrible. I'd honestly would give her the bases of the bow paladin (but only in stats in which the enemy is beating her in) and raise her starting level to level 5.

So essentially Astrid would be a level 5 bow paladin with +2 HP, +4 Atk, 0 Mag, 0 Skl, +2 Spd, 0 Lck, +7 Def, 0 Res from her bases (wouldn't object to +1 or 2 in magic, skill, luck or resistance because she did go up 3 levels)

[NinjaMonkey]

I really liked smash_fanatic's idea of keeping her bases the same, and then giving her bandit growths (105 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 85 skl, 75 spd, 70 lck, 90 def, 50 res).

[shadykid]

I really liked smash_fanatic's idea of keeping her bases the same, and then giving her bandit growths (105 HP, 60 str, 5 mag, 85 skl, 75 spd, 70 lck, 90 def, 50 res).

wat

you're telling me you think one of his ideas are GOOD?

*gasp* *falls over*

but in all seriousness, her bases currently are pretty bad to the point where you can't train her that well

[RNG Princess]

I compared Astrid to the NPC Bow paladins in chapter 2-3 on easy mode.

             lvl hp str mag skl spd lck def res
NPC Bow Pal.  1  34  17   5  16  17  10  17  10
Astrid        1  33  13   8  16  15  17  10  14

Then I compared Makalov to the npc Blade paladins in that same chapter.

             lvl hp str mag skl spd lck def res
NPC Bld Pal.  1  35  17   4  15  17  10  18  10
Makalov       7  37  18   5  17  18  20  17   9

Makalov is slightly superior to the generic npc of the same class but Astrid is incredibly inferior compared to the npc of her same class. I think she could use some buffs to at least be better than the npcs bow paladins. Not only does Astrid have the weakest stats of her team but she also has the weakest weapons. Compared to everyone who can use Steel Greatlances or steel blades the strongest she can get is the steel longbow and it's still weaker than all the other weapons and much more expensive. I think that her iron longbow could be replaced with a steel longbow or her steel bow to be replaced with a silver bow. The CRKs suffer from low availability and it hurts Astrid the most because her stats are too low. Compare her to Nephenee who starts off better and has more availability.

If you don't want to give her buffs I think she could at least have some of her stats changed around.

skl stat under str.

spd stat under skl.

lck stat under spd.

str stat under lck.

res stat under def.

def stat under res.

             lvl hp str mag skl spd lck def res
Astrid        1  33  16   8  15  17  13  14  10

However I think she should have the highest speed and res base stat of the 2-3 team but slightly lower def stat than anyone else on her team. Something like this:

             lvl hp str mag skl spd lck def res
Astrid        1  33  17   5  20  23  18  15  16

I think this would allow her to be fast enough to raise and not be a liability but still not overpowered. All CRKs are inferior to Oscar and the GMs and I think they need some buffs to be more competitive with them. I also think that 2-3 or 3-9 could be changed to rout map to allow the CRKs more experience and also make them playable in 3-10. Some enemy pegasi could also help her bowlock.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Maiden_of_Emblem

[shadykid]

this is rather unrelated to character balancing, but why are stat variances between different enemy classes in this game so much smaller than usual

[NinjaMonkey]

wat

you're telling me you think one of his ideas are GOOD?

*gasp* *falls over*

Most of his ideas of balancing in that thread of his are utter crap, but he did have two or three good ideas (and when I say "two or three ideas" I mean that in the literal sense).

Edited March 30, 2013 by NinjaMonkey