Fe10 Balancing attempt! [Subject #3 - Bastian]

[Lord Raven]

Because they have more chapters to get levels and therefore stats. Generally, his Str is better than Oscar's, and his Skl is about the same. They both have shitty Spd characteristic of Male Silver Knights anyway (considering their cap as a Silver Knight is only 2 higher than Ike's cap as a Hero). They're about on par in every other stat (Geoffrey has a very very small advantage at best) meaning that Geoffrey just doesn't have as many chapters to get the levels he needs.

Astrid/Fiona suck anyway and Geoffrey beats them by miles.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

No, I mean they would probably have better stats if all of them were at lv. 20 Gold/Silver Knight.

[Lord Raven]

Are you sure? Doesn't exactly take number theory to check.

Spoiler alert: Geoffrey nearly matches or beats everyone's Level 20 stats.

Then we run into the issue of not everyone being at 20/20 all the time, and Geoffrey not having nearly enough time (and therefore levels) to reach 20/20 let alone reach the levels the other Gold/Silver knights can reach. Frankly, the cap ramming that they get early on is what hinders them greatly.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Let's see. Titania beats him. Kieran somewhat beats him. Renning beats him. Oscar beats him. And I know Geoffrey is better than Makalov, Astrid, and Fiona.

Geoffrey is only better than three of the others, it seems. Sorry.

[Shotguner159]

Geoffrey is usable for more chapters than that. I'm pretty sure I recall having him in the Hawk Army for most of part 4. Didn't use him though, not even in Endgame. Most of the other Gold/Silver Knights are better.

2-3, half of 2-E. 3-9. 4-5. That's 3.5 maps before endgame.

[Vicious Sal]

I would make the GM chapters more difficult.

Noted

Why? The Wind Edge, Storm Sword, and Tempest Blade use magic. So they should use the magic stat. Same with the Bolt Axe.

It's a balance hack, Turning the only 2 range options a sword user has into magic would be the same as taking their 2 range away. Bar Mist & Elincia. And please don't start anything about that would benefit Elincia as she would fill in a niche roll because of that, I understand you like Elincia. This hack however isn't about her, it's about balancing things out & improving things that seem logical.

Nerfing 2 range swords isn't logical. They stay Physical, I am planning on creating Runeswords & Sonic Swords though.

And you clearly missed me saying that those were things I would change, if I could. (I didn't realize the thread starter was actually going to make changes at first though).

Yes, the fact that you posted that shows you didn't read the OP, or at least not carefully enough, because it clearly states I didn't want the script adjustments because i cannot do those, besides 2888 supports is too much anyway for one person. If you didn't realize I was going to make actual changes you didn't read the OP well enough, otherwise you would have know.

I don't understand why people are saying Geoffrey needs more play time. His play time is just fine to me. He's not a major character, nor a commander (except for like one chapter), so yeah.

Also, his looks are meh. Ike is waaaaay hotter and sexier. <3

People have stated already, he has less playtime than the LEA. So yes, he needs more.

Also I kindly ask of you to not go into the looks or pairings or fanfiction or other derailment of this thread any further, I would like it if this stays on subject as much as possible. Cheers. ;)

Solo might've been a bad choice of words, I meant laguz run.

I'd love BEXP to not be so necessary to making 1/2 of the units viable.

Duly noted, once it becomes the topic of discussion (different topic every day?) we'll see how we would be able to make it happen.

Bolt Axe isn't in this game. Wind Edge/Storm Sword/Tempest Blade don't use magic, the person slices through the air much easier that causes a wind current causing damage. There's no magic involved.

It's comparable to Ragnell/Alondite, where they are strong/heavy enough to cause a shockwave that goes over to the enemy and hits them.

Wind edge etc state they are magical blades, by this definition I pretty much concluded the same thing as you, they are magical, which cause them to slice air more effectively causing the wind current to appear and damage the enemy.

Fuck. This is a balance hack. There's no plot involved in a balance hack.

This

Except for the few things for how I plan on explaining why the LEA joins earlier, but that will be done in a POST, not in the actual script.

No, I mean they would probably have better stats if all of them were at lv. 20 Gold/Silver Knight.

You said you had troubles getting DB units to tier three, they have a ton more chapters, so how on earth do you plan on getting geoffrey to 20/20? By giving him more chapters to play in. End of discussion. You might not like geoffrey, that's fine, when it's his day of discussion you are welcome to start a discussion with well founded arguments to convince everyone else he doesn't need more play time. For now, I've added your contribution to his part in the OP. I might not like it, but if I want to voice everyones opinion I can't let my opinion cloud my judgement.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Vicious Sal

[Florete]

In theory, Geoffrey is a really good BEXP candidate anyway. With smart use of it, he'll cap all his important stats, and Gold/Silver Knight caps largely aren't different enough to make anyone significantly better than another.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Red Fox of Fire

[Anacybele]

I don't like Geoffrey, true, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. But whatever. I could care less about his playability time anyway since I don't use him when I'm given the option to bench him.

Also, I could've sworn the Bolt Axe was in RD.

Also, I never ever mentioned Elincia, fanfics, or pairings. I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Anacybele

[Vicious Sal]

I don't like Geoffrey, true, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. But whatever. I could care less about his playability time anyway since I don't use him when I'm given the option to bench him.

Also, I could've sworn the Bolt Axe was in RD.

Also, I never ever mentioned Elincia, fanfics, or pairings. I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

Nope, they are in POR though. I plan on making the Sonic Sword, Rune Sword, Flame Lance, Blt Axe and Bright bow return. And also a Dark Magic knife seemed cool.

[Anacybele]

Huh. Well then, my mistake.

[Lord Raven]

Let's see. Titania beats him. Kieran somewhat beats him. Renning beats him. Oscar beats him. And I know Geoffrey is better than Makalov, Astrid, and Fiona.

Geoffrey is only better than three of the others, it seems. Sorry.

no

Renning more or less matches him. Renning doesn't beat him at all. Geoffrey has Str/Skl/Res vs HP/Def. That's hardly "beating", it's very nearly breaking even when all the other stats are about on par.

Titania barely beats Geoffrey if at all. She has around 3 Spd on him (compared to 1.5 HP, 1 Str, and maxing Res a looooong long time ago).

Kieran solidly beats Geoffrey, I'm not sure where you are getting "barely" from. 1 Str, 5 HP and 3 Def vs like 3 Res lol Makalov is in the same boat.

Oscar and Geoffrey are very evenly matched. Geoffrey has like 4 Str and 3 Res on him whereas Oscar has 2 Speed. They are almost exactly even in everything else. Fiona is pretty even too.

But sadly, Fiona sucks, Kieran can't nearly solo 2-3 like Geoffrey can, Astrid sucks, Renning comes really late, and Titania/Oscar are just plain better in terms of gameplay (and not 20/20 stats) anyway. Geoffrey's 20/20 stats are generally middle of the line or even a bit better than like every Silver/Gold knight if you look at the raw numbers. I'm not sure how you are so blind to facts that are just right in front of you. They're just pixels and video game characters, there's no reason to get so defensive towards them.

Also, I never ever mentioned Elincia, fanfics, or pairings. I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

You mention it everywhere else so it's not hard to make a correlation between the two. Edited September 9, 2012 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Simply believing that Geoffrey isn't as good statistically as other Gold/Silver Knights is being really defensive towards him? I fail to see how.

Geoffrey's a little better than I thought. Okay then, my mistake. I'm just sick of people assuming I'm biased all the time because I dislike the character. If I wanted to say Geoffrey was a bad unit because I dislike him, I'd be saying he's the worst unit in the damn game, but I know that's not true. He's fairly decent, actually.

And just because I mention those things doesn't mean I intend to start up a whole discussion about them. In fact, most of the time, I just intend to throw in my two cents and that's it. People don't have to reply to me either. They can ignore me. It takes two to tango, you know.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Anacybele

[Ema Skye]

Here's a few ideas, moreso related to changing the gameplay to solve some funky availability problems:

1-E: Pelleas (forced; game over if he dies) and Tauroneo (same) are playable on this map

2-E: Geoffery's CRKs show up several turns earlier, like on turn 3. Bastian (de-level him to like a Lv.15 Wind Sage or around there), Volke (he's fine with his level) and Lucia show up on the same spot on turn 6. You cannot win the map by defeating the boss.

3-4: Tormod, Maurim and Vika join the Mercs here. As with all laguz, Maurim and Vika cannot be used in 3-5.

3-9: Bastian, Lucia and Elincia (now forced alongside Geoffery) are usable in this map.

3-10: If possible, make the CRKs playable and the Mercs NPCs (game over if Elincia, Lucia or Ike die)

3-13: On a second playthrough, Pelleas is forced here (game over if he dies).

3-F: You can deploy Lucia, Elincia and Geoffery (game over if Elincia or Lucia die).

4-3: Make Stefan's space closer to the start of the map so that he's actually around for most of the map.

Also, caps are really wonky as well. What I'd do to fix this would be using 2nd tier caps from PoR and then adding 10 to the 2nd tier caps to create the 3rd tier caps.

[Vicious Sal]

Simply believing that Geoffrey isn't as good statistically as other Gold/Silver Knights is being really defensive towards him? I fail to see how.

Geoffrey's a little better than I thought. Okay then, my mistake. I'm just sick of people assuming I'm biased all the time because I dislike the character. If I wanted to say Geoffrey was a bad unit because I dislike him, I'd be saying he's the worst unit in the damn game, but I know that's not true. He's fairly decent, actually.

And just because I mention those things doesn't mean I intend to start up a whole discussion about them. In fact, most of the time, I just intend to throw in my two cents and that's it. People don't have to reply to me either. They can ignore me. It takes two to tango, you know.

In that case everyone get of the freaking dance floor because I don't know if you can see, but what i specifically asked for is still happening. I added that you want geoffreys availability to stay the same, and I added the request to add chapters to his playtime as well. When it's geoffrey debate time, once again i say this:

Anacybele, when the day to discuss Geoffrey is up, you are more than welcome to discuss this with the rest of the people and you can convince them with well founded arguments that geoffrey does not need more playtime.

Until then, just stick to suggestions for balancing the game, instead of arguing about which Paladin is best.

I'm not going to even bother with arguing with any of you, i just want the arguing to STOP because it isn't the time for that YET.

[Lord Raven]

Can you organize the OP better? It looks like a mess.

Also for Brom: Start with a Brave Axe and Silver Axe or something. That way he can double with a weaker weapon or hit really hard.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Lord Raven

[Vicious Sal]

@ Lord Raven: Working on it, MS word adds like ten million extra enters for some weird reason. Expect it to be better tomorrow. ;)

EDIT:

Here's a few ideas, moreso related to changing the gameplay to solve some funky availability problems:

1-E: Pelleas (forced; game over if he dies) and Tauroneo (same) are playable on this map

2-E: Geoffery's CRKs show up several turns earlier, like on turn 3. Bastian (de-level him to like a Lv.15 Wind Sage or around there), Volke (he's fine with his level) and Lucia show up on the same spot on turn 6. You cannot win the map by defeating the boss.

3-4: Tormod, Maurim and Vika join the Mercs here. As with all laguz, Maurim and Vika cannot be used in 3-5.

3-9: Bastian, Lucia and Elincia (now forced alongside Geoffery) are usable in this map.

3-10: If possible, make the CRKs playable and the Mercs NPCs (game over if Elincia, Lucia or Ike die)

3-13: On a second playthrough, Pelleas is forced here (game over if he dies).

3-F: You can deploy Lucia, Elincia and Geoffery (game over if Elincia or Lucia die).

4-3: Make Stefan's space closer to the start of the map so that he's actually around for most of the map.

Also, caps are really wonky as well. What I'd do to fix this would be using 2nd tier caps from PoR and then adding 10 to the 2nd tier caps to create the 3rd tier caps.

All of this has been added under a new section which has all the chapters listed. Or rather will be listed in a minute. Thanks for the suggestions, I hope that when we are going to discuss this we'll reach a good conclusion. (Best part, I have the final vote! =D Although I won't be an ass and say meg starts as a duck while everyone else says she has to get a tuna to fight with)

Edited September 9, 2012 by Vicious Sal

[Lord Raven]

I do virtually everything on Notepad++ so i have no sympathy :P

[Vicious Sal]

I do virtually everything on Notepad++ so i have no sympathy :P

I reckon I'll go and change it to either Textedit or Excel. But that's for tomorrow.

[Anacybele]

In that case everyone get of the freaking dance floor because I don't know if you can see, but what i specifically asked for is still happening. I added that you want geoffreys availability to stay the same, and I added the request to add chapters to his playtime as well. When it's geoffrey debate time, once again i say this:

Anacybele, when the day to discuss Geoffrey is up, you are more than welcome to discuss this with the rest of the people and you can convince them with well founded arguments that geoffrey does not need more playtime.

Until then, just stick to suggestions for balancing the game, instead of arguing about which Paladin is best.

I'm not going to even bother with arguing with any of you, i just want the arguing to STOP because it isn't the time for that YET.

Fair enough, but I actually don't think there's any reason that Geoffrey's playability should remain the same. But I also don't think there's any reason it should be changed. So I wouldn't care what you do with him either way.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Anacybele

[Eltoshen]

You've just ignored like a page worth of comments explaining why Geoffrey needs more playtime with his measly 3.5 chapters.

[eclipse]

Oh, that reminds me: Maybe adjusting certain caps/stats so that certain people stop ramming them so hard? I can kinda see why certain characters do that, but there isn't enough BEXP to justify that many people being guilty of it.

[Vicious Sal]

Oh, that reminds me: Maybe adjusting certain caps/stats so that certain people stop ramming them so hard? I can kinda see why certain characters do that, but there isn't enough BEXP to justify that many people being guilty of it.

I guess this is one for the day we discuss each character. Before that happens though, do we even want caps? I was thinking more of adjusting T1 & 2 Caps, and removing them for T3, if I can do that. Which right now, i most certainly cannot. =p

[Shotguner159]

Laguz should start with some of their gauge filled like in PoR.

[eclipse]

I guess this is one for the day we discuss each character. Before that happens though, do we even want caps? I was thinking more of adjusting T1 & 2 Caps, and removing them for T3, if I can do that. Which right now, i most certainly cannot. =p

Okay, fair enough. I know it's possible to adjust them, because of the Unleashed video series (and its sequels), many of which have stats that can't be obtained normally.

[Vicious Sal]

Okay, fair enough. I know it's possible to adjust them, because of the Unleashed video series (and its sequels), many of which have stats that can't be obtained normally.

Yup, I reckon it's one of the first things I want handled, do we want caps, if we do, raising and altering and whatnot can be discussed. IF we don't, it's simpler. =p But that would give stats like the Unleashed series, which doesn't seems entirely balanced... BEXP would also lose it's abuse, since Mic would forever get Mag/Lck/Res