A way to fix skill

[MajorMajora]

Skill determines hit and critical rates, hit increasing by 2 times skill and crit increasing by 1/2 skill. This has much less of an effect on the game than other stats, and it has gotten some hate.

My proposal is that when you attack and the weapon triangle activates, skill goes into play to determine how much the weapon triangle goes into effect. For example, If you are a sword wielder with high skill fighting an axe user with low skill, you would get more significant boosts from the weapon triangle. If you are a sword wielder with high skill vs a lance wielder with low skill, the effects would be lessened.

I feel that this combined with that it now effects dual attack/defending, it will catch up with other stats.

[cyron]

this mean myrm are the most resistant to the weapon traingle and axe users are screwed against swords men and most early game vs bandits is now even easier

[Othin]

So... it situationally either impacts Mt or it impacts Hit more?

The issue with Skl is that it tends to not have anything to offer beyond weighing the odds, which are usually good enough already. Some unique, reliable effect would solve this. Spd gives a double attack for having 5+ more than the enemy. Perhaps Skl could cancel enemy counterattacks on hits for having 5+ more than the enemy?

Of course, this could easily become far too biased towards player characters if implemented poorly.

[NinjaMonkey]

Spd gives a double attack for having 5+ more than the enemy.

That's only in FE13. In most other FE games, it's 4.

Edited September 13, 2012 by NinjaMonkey

[Othin]

That's only in FE13. In most other FE games, it's 4.

FE13 is the most recent FE game. In the FE series as it currently stands, it is 5.

I'm confused about why you're bringing this up. Do you think it changes anything I was saying, or that I wasn't aware of it?

[CT075]

maybe have excess hit (over 100) go to crit?

like

if you have 180 hit and the enemy has 60 avd, that leaves you with +20 crit

[Anouleth]

maybe have excess hit (over 100) go to crit?

like

if you have 180 hit and the enemy has 60 avd, that leaves you with +20 crit

This is a good idea.

It should be noted that in FEs with skills, Skill is more important because it helps skill activation rates.

Another way to help skill would be to let it work like weapon level in FE1/2/3. So if you had a high skill character, they wouldn't need to have a high weapon rank (useful for weapon types you gain on promotion).

[CT075]

i vaguely remember being pissed when the rng was screwing with me and wouldn't let me level my wlv's (unless you mean to have the two systems coexist? which mitebcool)

also my system makes myrm's having low str not matter as much since they'll have that much more crit

[Anouleth]

i vaguely remember being pissed when the rng was screwing with me and wouldn't let me level my wlv's (unless you mean to have the two systems coexist? which mitebcool)

I mean to have them coexist, so you could either wield a Silver Sword by having A Rank in Swords, or by having at least 20 skill (say).

also my system makes myrm's having low str not matter as much since they'll have that much more crit

More than that, really, since it means that the marginal value of skill is high, even when you have very high hit rates already.

[Paperblade]

maybe have excess hit (over 100) go to crit?

like

if you have 180 hit and the enemy has 60 avd, that leaves you with +20 crit

The problem with this is that it's either gonna be strong (turns everyone weapon into a Killer) or totally useless (no effect). Thus, it should be a skill.

It should be noted that in FEs with skills, Skill is more important because it helps skill activation rates.

This is also true-ish. Unfortunately a lot of activations aren't based on Skill...

Edited September 13, 2012 by Paperblade

[Anouleth]

The problem with this is that it's either gonna be strong (turns everyone weapon into a Killer) or totally useless (no effect). Thus, it should be a skill.

I remember crunching the numbers for FE9 and it's not like that at all: it's good on Swordmasters and Snipers but mediocre for Paladins and Warriors and stuff, which is kind of exactly what we want. It makes Swords and Bows better, it makes forging hit on weapons a worthwhile endeavour, it makes +hit supports worthwhile...

This is also true-ish. Unfortunately a lot of activations aren't based on Skill...

Yes, this was certainly true in FE10 where it seemed like as many abilities used Strength or Speed as Skill.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Anouleth

[Progenitus]

i had a topic about skl (along with HP/lck/res), so anything i could post here right now, i've already said in that topic

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932999-fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/58197164

[BrightBow]

Well, they could bring PCCs back. You always have to endure a counter attack for using it so I wouldn't say it's overpowered.

[Axie]

They could go back to using one RN for hit instead of two. It's simple, it's been done and it means every pont of hit matters until you have 100% hit.

It does make Avoid more unreliable for the player, but that could change too. Easier than trying to find a whole new use for Skill at least.

[Komeiji Koishi]

They could go back to using one RN for hit instead of two. It's simple, it's been done and it means every pont of hit matters until you have 100% hit.

That could work, unless something like Pokémon's Gen 1 246/247 happened. But yeah, it does seem like a good idea. Could give an extra degree of challenge too

[Lord Raven]

i had a topic about skl (along with HP/lck/res), so anything i could post here right now, i've already said in that topic

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/932999-fire-emblem-radiant-dawn/58197164

Couple things to address these points:

HP and Res are far more clutch in 13. Enemies later on tend to hit really really hard and many of them tend to use magic, so you need HP to back yourself up because characters like Krom and Sol have really crappy Resistance and there aren't enough chars with good Resistance to go around. This makes some characters with more Res far more valuable.

Skill was also bolstered in Awakening. Some hit rates are on the edge of oblivion, and some hit rates tend to be iffy; there is a large discrepancy between chars with low skill and high skill and it's very noticeable.

A lot of activations are related to Skill. Vengeance has a Skill*2% chance of activation (also making HP more important). Some minor things rely on luck, like Weapon Saver and Mug, and they are useful in small enough doses. Luck isn't really supposed to be that big a stat anyway...

[Anouleth]

I think that complaining about HP not being "as good" as other stats is a bit disingenuous. I mean, HP isn't "as good" as other stats in just about every single RPG ever created. And it doesn't matter since you get more of it anyway.

[Shin]

Skill = crit or have avoid as skill+speed+luck. In FE11/12, skill is virtually worthless, since hit is high, avoid is low and criticals are reasonably rare.

[Axie]

I think that complaining about HP not being "as good" as other stats is a bit disingenuous. I mean, HP isn't "as good" as other stats in just about every single RPG ever created. And it doesn't matter since you get more of it anyway.

I didn't even know people had an issue with HP as a stat before this thread. Having HP is important because you rarely have enough Defense/Resistance to take no damage, as games are designed to have both you and the enemy taking damage. Yes, it would mathematically be better if you had more Defense/Resistance than HP, but what would be the fun in that? HP doesn't need to do anything else.

[Paperblade]

I remember crunching the numbers for FE9 and it's not like that at all: it's good on Swordmasters and Snipers but mediocre for Paladins and Warriors and stuff, which is kind of exactly what we want. It makes Swords and Bows better, it makes forging hit on weapons a worthwhile endeavour, it makes +hit supports worthwhile...

Well, I meant more like

In FE6 it would be worthless

While in like FE12 it would probably give everyone lots of crit

Yes, this was certainly true in FE10 where it seemed like as many abilities used Strength or Speed as Skill.

Only half of them in FE4 are based on Skill, same with FE5.

Also I don't think stats being imbalanced in value is a problem. Like, 1HP being worth less than 1 Defense or whatever doesn't matter since HP growths are higher and stat boosting HP items give larger boosts etc. Skill's problem is that it has a soft cap that's easily reachable in a lot of games (100 Hit) so having a lot of it really isn't useful.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Paperblade

[dondon151]

i hardly ever get 100 hit

i had an idea before where having 4 more skl compared to opponent would double your str for that round of combat (would have to exist separately from double attacking though, since having both would be way too good).

[Progenitus]

I don't have a problem with HP being weak when compared to toher stats, point for point.

but IS doesn't know how to balance PC stats and half the time they just give everyone similar stat totals without realizing that not every stat is worth the same (well, along with the fact that they don't consider movement/availability/etc either). I know this is very common in FE10, but it appears to be common in FE8 and 9 as well. It's been awhile since I checked FE11 stats and I have not played Fe12 or 13, but I would bet those three follow the same pattern.

edit: I just did a very quick check on base growths for all FE13 characters (minus the children). The average base growth is 300 with a stdev of 25, and there are only 3 units out of 35 characters beyond 1 stdev away, and if you erase those characters then the average drops to 294 with only a 15 stdev. So it does appear to be the case for this game too, in terms of keeping the majority of the characters within a similar stat total, presumably at equal levels. As for the actual balance among the characters I obviously can't say since I haven't played the game.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Progenitus

[Othin]

i hardly ever get 100 hit

i had an idea before where having 4 more skl compared to opponent would double your str for that round of combat (would have to exist separately from double attacking though, since having both would be way too good).

More of an issue is that it's just redundant. Spd advantage lets you do double damage. Skl advantage lets you do about double damage. Not all that unique.

[dondon151]

More of an issue is that it's just redundant. Spd advantage lets you do double damage. Skl advantage lets you do about double damage. Not all that unique.

not sure how you can say this when

1) different units (and classes) have different values for skl and spd

2) there is a very strong distinction between doubling and hitting for higher damage; the former will sustain a counter if the unit can't OHKO and the former is weaker against enemies with higher def

furthermore i see you either chose to ignore, didn't read, or didn't understand the implications of the part of the post where i said that either ability will be mutually exclusive of the other

[Othin]

not sure how you can say this when

1) different units (and classes) have different values for skl and spd

2) there is a very strong distinction between doubling and hitting for higher damage; the former will sustain a counter if the unit can't OHKO and the former is weaker against enemies with higher def

furthermore i see you either chose to ignore, didn't read, or didn't understand the implications of the part of the post where i said that either ability will be mutually exclusive of the other

None of this is even relevant. 1 and 3 just mean Skl is duplicating Spd's effect for those characters that would get the Skl advantage, and 2 is simply a situational difference to effects that are fundamentally the same. And the advantages, as you state them, are rather one-sided anyway, which isn't good.