Bonds of the Beloved: Feedback

[Anacybele]

This thread is for feedback on my new FE7 fic, Bonds of the Beloved. You can find the story here. My co-author has not touched it yet, but he and I plan to work on it in the future. I just decided to post this early draft to compare our styles as well as to improve on mine.

But I'd advise you not to read this if:

- You don't like the SainxFiora, HectorxLyn, EliwoodxNinian, or DartxFarina pairings (admittedly, I'm not a fan of EliwoodxNinian myself, but if Roy is to exist, Ninian is the only other logical choice I've got left. xP)

- You like the KentxLyn pairing

- You're not a fan of pairings in general

- You're not a fan of Sain, Fiora, Kent, or FE7 in general

Also note that while SainxFiora is the primary pairing of this fic, Sain and Kent are really the main characters.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[shadowofchaos]

(admittedly, I'm not a fan of EliwoodxNinian myself, but if Roy is to exist, Ninian is the only other logical choice I've got left. xP)

"If Roy is to exist, Eliwood can screw a Generic Village Girl Chan, Lyn, OR Fiora as well."

[Anacybele]

Honestly...I just can't see Eliwood choosing an unnamed woman over Ninian or Lyn. Also, I've already paired Fiora with Sain and Lyn with Hector. xP

Edited September 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[Arch]

Hector'd be the guy to fuck a random village chick, if anything.

[Anacybele]

lol, actually, I can see that too! XD

But I do like him with Lyn. Their friendship is so funny and cute.

[Agro]

Why not Hector/Farina, Eliwood/Fiora and Lyn/Florina? I always thought that made the most sense: after all, it leaves no open ends for the pegasus sisters or the lords, and to boot, Roy and Lilian are cousins, which makes RoyxLilina extra cute!

[Life]

Let's see...

Alright. At first glance, the chapter is far too long. I know that you enjoy long chapters but I advise shortening them considerably. Or if you're going to keep long chapters, don't jump around with the narrative. Not saying that you do, this is just first glance. Long chapters like that are usually deadly.

Ok. First line. You don't need to describe how Sain's kid looks right off the bat. There's time for that in the future. No need to rush. Same idea with Sain in the next line.

“Aw, but Dad, you’re known as the Green Lance! I wanna be great like that!”

Tiny bit off. Just "you're the Green Lance" actually has a nicer ring to it.

Or else I wouldn’t be married to my lovely wife, Fiora.

No need to mention now that it's Fiora. In fact, you should actually wait until you introduce her. That would work better.

The man merely brought his hands to his hips.

Doesn't sound natural. Just doesn't read well. You could eliminate it or change it up a bit. It's just the wording gets me a bit.

“Yep! You told me about a bunch of plants I should stay away from while we hiked here and in Caelin, and you showed me how to climb trees, some basic tracking skills that you picked up from Lady Lyndis, and all the other stuff! I also remember that you said that snow drowns out sound, so around here, I need to scream really loud if I’m by myself and really need help.”

Commas. Both sentences really. I keep seeing comma problems as I go especially after the word "and" so you can omit those on a revision.

…Hm? Ah, sorry,” Sain replied, almost not hearing his wife. “I was just thinking about how lucky I am. To have such a lovely wife and wonderful children. I…never really thought I had that much of a chance of getting that. I mean, before we met, and even when we met, I was just a scoundrel when it came to women. I never really meant to be, but I couldn’t help myself. Finally winning you over and later starting a family with you just…well, made me come to my senses.”

This seems very unnatural. It's random babbling for the sake of it. Sain doesn't need to reflect on everything so openly and obviously, you can tell that he's satisfied with his life.

I kinda cringed at the next couple of paragraphs. That part reads like a wet dream a bit. The "steamy" part reads incredibly sloppy, if you want to know the truth.

The honest truth is... it's not half bad. The sentence structure here is a LOT better (your problem is more on trying to word the idea correctly), you have some grammar mistakes still existing (not rampant though) but what I do like is the fact that I've actually been intrigued a bit. I kinda want to know what's going to happen when Kent gets into town but I do want a little bit of foreshadowing. If I read the next chapter and everything is roses and unicorns, I'm going to feel bored. I want a reason to keep going.

The romance bit can definitely be tuned down at the very least and best case scenario is cut out completely. You don't need it. Why are Sain's sexy abs important to the story? They're not. I think the quality would go up if you took out the romance bits completely (obviously leaving Sain's womanizing because it's part of his character) because as I said earlier, your writing gets really sloppy when you start that shit.

Really not much else to say. Quality of writing is miles better than the other story. The only other nitpick is what I said in the beginning. Chapter is too long. The longer the chapter, the harder you need to work to make an effective hook.

[Teapot]

Why not Hector/Farina, Eliwood/Fiora and Lyn/Florina? I always thought that made the most sense: after all, it leaves no open ends for the pegasus sisters or the lords, and to boot, Roy and Lilian are cousins, which makes RoyxLilina extra cute!

Incest~ Fun for the entire family!

[Life]

Incest~ Fun for the entire family!

Man has a point.

[Anacybele]

Guys... Just no. I don't do incest or yaoi or yuri, okay?

Alright. At first glance, the chapter is far too long. I know that you enjoy long chapters but I advise shortening them considerably. Or if you're going to keep long chapters, don't jump around with the narrative. Not saying that you do, this is just first glance. Long chapters like that are usually deadly.

Yeah, I like long chapters. It's part of my style. What do you mean by "don't jump around with the narrative?" though?

Ok. First line. You don't need to describe how Sain's kid looks right off the bat. There's time for that in the future. No need to rush. Same idea with Sain in the next line.

I've read some books that do it this way though. But if you say so.

Tiny bit off. Just "you're the Green Lance" actually has a nicer ring to it.

Yeah, probably sounds more like a 10 year old kid as well, which is what Nick is.

No need to mention now that it's Fiora. In fact, you should actually wait until you introduce her. That would work better.

You know, I think I agree there.

Doesn't sound natural. Just doesn't read well. You could eliminate it or change it up a bit. It's just the wording gets me a bit.

I'll try to change it up. I do prefer describing character body language and gestures to show their emotions.

Commas. Both sentences really. I keep seeing comma problems as I go especially after the word "and" so you can omit those on a revision.

Okay then.

This seems very unnatural. It's random babbling for the sake of it. Sain doesn't need to reflect on everything so openly and obviously, you can tell that he's satisfied with his life.

But Fiora can't. That's why she asked what he's thinking about. She can't read minds, you know. xP

I kinda cringed at the next couple of paragraphs. That part reads like a wet dream a bit. The "steamy" part reads incredibly sloppy, if you want to know the truth.

And what exactly is this "steamy" part you're referring to? xP

The honest truth is... it's not half bad. The sentence structure here is a LOT better (your problem is more on trying to word the idea correctly)

Yeah, that's always been an issue for me. I've never had a large vocabulary, and that's one reason I work with my co-author. His is humungous and he's expanded mine as well. And thanks, btw. I guess I really do have some skill after all.

, you have some grammar mistakes still existing (not rampant though) but what I do like is the fact that I've actually been intrigued a bit. I kinda want to know what's going to happen when Kent gets into town but I do want a little bit of foreshadowing. If I read the next chapter and everything is roses and unicorns, I'm going to feel bored. I want a reason to keep going.

Don't worry, I know. I plan for things to move along in the next chapter.

The romance bit can definitely be tuned down at the very least and best case scenario is cut out completely. You don't need it. Why are Sain's sexy abs important to the story? They're not. I think the quality would go up if you took out the romance bits completely (obviously leaving Sain's womanizing because it's part of his character) because as I said earlier, your writing gets really sloppy when you start that shit.

I enjoy romance. But that's the only real romance that will be in this story, if it makes you feel any better. And Sain's muscularity is part of why Fiora's so attracted to him, as she explains.

Really not much else to say. Quality of writing is miles better than the other story. The only other nitpick is what I said in the beginning. Chapter is too long. The longer the chapter, the harder you need to work to make an effective hook.

I still think my co-author is better than me (maybe our styles do better separately? He has much more experience than I do and actually has a college degree in this stuff), but thanks for the compliment. And as I said, long chapters are part of mah style.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[Life]

Yeah, that's always been an issue for me. I've never had a large vocabulary, and that's one reason I work with my co-author. His is humungous and he's expanded mine as well. And thanks, btw. I guess I really do have some skill after all.

I still think my co-author is better than me (maybe our styles do better separately? He has much more experience than I do and actually has a college degree in this stuff), but thanks for the compliment. And as I said, long chapters are part of mah style.

I would disagree here. A bigger vocabulary does not make a story better. In your other story, it's so overboard with the vocabulary that it's a serious problem.

I would say that you understand writing better than your friend. He's got a big vocabulary but doesn't understand how to use it properly. His sentence structure is absolutely horrid while yours is standard (no real problems). And one chapter into your story reads a lot better than one into the other one.

There is one thing that you need to work on. Rather than telling us everything, show us what's going on. Let's the reader fill in the blanks. It'll read a lot better if you do so.

[Anacybele]

No, no, I didn't mean that a bigger vocabulary automatically makes a story better. I meant that it helps some. But you're right, you gotta know when and where to use the right words.

And I, personally, like the chapters of Dawn of Darkness better. I like that there's more description, a better balancing of dialogue and paragraphs (that first chapter of BotB totally lacks description compared to dialogue), more use of foreshadowing, similes, metaphors, and stuff like that. If I understand writing as well as you say I do, then surely my opinion here means something.

Also, just to point out, another fanfic that my co-author and I are working on that isn't of the FE fandom won an award this year and has been nominated again for the same award. One of the characters got nominated for an award this time as well.

[eclipse]

Uh. . .we're here, not at that other place. And we're trying to help you. Can you please work with us?

[Anacybele]

Where's your critique? I only see Life's. And of course I'm working with him. I did say "okay" and "I agree" and "thanks" and such.

I'll have to make the changes some other time though. It's really late here and I'm tired as hell. >_<

[eclipse]

The reason why I asked is because if you were not going to listen to me, I wasn't going to bother. I'll edit a few things in this post. I don't feel like making a wall if I'm gonna be ignored.

---

I'll give Nick's personality a pass for now, even if I think it feels like he's trying too hard to be Daddy's No. 1 Boy.

Though, I rather doubt he’d benefit much from the bad habits I had at least twelve years ago, the man thought to himself with slight abashment, remembering his large interest in women and how he would constantly make advances on any that he thought were attractive. But hey, that doesn’t mean I can’t teach my son about girls later too! And, I did learn the right way to win ‘em. Or else I wouldn’t be married to my lovely wife, Fiora. I just hope she doesn’t mind, hehe…

“Hey, Dad, don’t worry! Mom told me all about how you used to go after all the pretty ladies!” Nick replied, as if to read his father’s mind. The man soon froze where he stood.

This transition is rather rough. I know kids aren't always logical (I remember my own days as a little one), but this jump feels unnatural. Everything up to there flowed, though.

Can't really comment on the next part, as I'm not sure how old Nick is at this point.

With that, Sain began swinging his wooden sword horizontally, and Nick followed suit. He did his best to imitate his father perfectly and swung his smaller sword in a horizontal line. Some of his swings were rather sloppy, but after Sain corrected his son’s errors, Nick was able to get the hang of it. As they practiced, a woman with blue eyes and the same bluish green hair as Nick’s stepped outside and stood at the back door, also wearing a coat and thick clothes. She remained there with a smile on her face, watching Sain and Nick as they continued practicing horizontal sword swings, and then moved on to vertical, and later, diagonal swings. Nick still made an erroneous swing on occasion, but over time, these numbered fewer, and the boy could imitate his father nearly perfectly. Diagonal swings proved to be the most difficult for him, but Sain assured his son that with practice, he would master them.

This kid learns really fast! (source: some background in weapons training)

Sparring session - no issues, though that noogie was cute (and tells me that the kid's definitely not a preteen)

Convo with Fiora - could probably use less words, but others have covered that.

With that, the trio returned inside the house, warmed by the fire going in the fireplace. It was a simple, cozy home, affordable by any group of mercenaries like Sain and his family. The back door led into the small kitchen and dining area, and from there, a door led into the living room. A staircase next to the living room led to three bedrooms upstairs, one of which was Sain and Fiora’s, and the other, smaller two belonged to Nick and Emily. Just seconds after they had entered the kitchen from outside, however, a little girl with blonde, braided pigtails and blue eyes came running towards Sain through the living room. She was carrying a small scroll in her hands.

They must be paid well. (source: stupid inflated Hawaii home prices)

“Heh. So, what’s that you got there?” Sain wondered, noting the scroll.

“Ah, right! A messenger came by while you guys were outside! He had a letter for us! It’s from Kent! He’s gonna come see us!”

“Really? He is?”

My dad's response: "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING OPENING MAIL THAT ISN'T ADDRESSED TO YOU?"

“Yeah, that’s true. We’ll make it totally worth it for him. Oh, but before I forget, Kent also says that he visited Pherae first, for Lord Hector. He went to see how Lord Eliwood is.”

“Ah, that’s so nice of him. Lord Eliwood hasn’t been the happiest Marquess lately, as we all know. Same with young Roy, ever since Lady Ninian died.”

“Yeah, it was saddening for many people. But at least we knew it was coming. Nils had warned us as much about Elibe’s air not being able to sustain them for long, after all.”

“I agree. It would’ve been so much harder had it been sudden and unexpected. But it wasn’t, and Lord Eliwood and Roy have so many friends to help them through it.”

“Indeed, they do.”

“Yeah, it’s so sad, but we know they can cope!” Nick added in support. “And I bet Lady Ninian is still watching over them from the sky!”

“That’s right! They can do it! Lots of people still love them!” Emily seconded.

“That is quite true,” Fiora confirmed with a smile. “I’m so glad to hear you both say that. Now, I was thinking of cooking some chicken and rice tonight. How does that sound?”

The flow of the story bogs down here. Perhaps cut some lines, or make your characters say more before someone else speaks?

And afterwards, I see sappiness, which is my cue to run. No offense to you, but this generally happens once such situations pop up. I'll leave others to critique those portions.

Edited September 18, 2012 by eclipse

[Anacybele]

You're not as long as you aren't rude.

I need to go to bed, though, so I'll have to look at what you have to say in the morning.

[Anacybele]

This transition is rather rough. I know kids aren't always logical (I remember my own days as a little one), but this jump feels unnatural. Everything up to there flowed, though.

How can I make it more natural then? I will admit that I don't have as much experience writing child characters as I do older ones. xP

Can't really comment on the next part, as I'm not sure how old Nick is at this point.

He's ten.

This kid learns really fast! (source: some background in weapons training)

Basic swings aren't that hard... More advanced techniques, yeah, that's where it takes a lot of training.

Sparring session - no issues, though that noogie was cute (and tells me that the kid's definitely not a preteen)

Indeed, not a preteen. He's ten, as I said above. :P

My dad's response: "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING OPENING MAIL THAT ISN'T ADDRESSED TO YOU?"

To be technical, it was addressed to ALL of them, lol.

The flow of the story bogs down here. Perhaps cut some lines, or make your characters say more before someone else speaks?

Eh, I dunno. The conversation might not make as much sense if I do that.

[eclipse]

Ten years old? This should help clear some things up.

Though, I rather doubt he’d benefit much from the bad habits I had at least twelve years ago, the man thought to himself with slight abashment, remembering his large interest in women and how he would constantly make advances on any that he thought were attractive. But hey, that doesn’t mean I can’t teach my son about girls later too! And, I did learn the right way to win ‘em. Or else I wouldn’t be married to my lovely wife, Fiora. I just hope she doesn’t mind, hehe…

(STUFF GOES HERE)

“Hey, Dad, don’t worry! Mom told me all about how you used to go after all the pretty ladies!” Nick replied, as if to read his father’s mind. The man soon froze where he stood.

“…Wait, what?” he said. “She did?”

I think a bit more conversation to lead into what you have in the section I indicated will help with transition. You reference this later on, so it can't be removed entirely. Maybe have Nick ask his dad what he's thinking, and have Sain stutter something? I'm sure there's other, less clumsy ways of handling it, but that's the first thing that pops into my head. Likewise, I'm not sure if I can imagine a mom telling her ten-year-old son and even younger daughter about what a flirt dad was. IIRC, that's the stuff that gets saved for way later in life (or my family could be weird).

WRT to weapon training, one doesn't master the basics on the first try. Usually, the first time is "let's make sure you don't knock yourself over the head with this" while adjusting to the weight of the weapon. I can realistically see Nick get enough of a grasp with his weapon such that his swings have some confidence behind them (and/or he's not falling down when he tries to do more than a tentative swing).

As for that convo before I stopped, not sure what can be done about it. I'm not the best with dialogue, either.

[Anacybele]

Ten years old? This should help clear some things up.

I think a bit more conversation to lead into what you have in the section I indicated will help with transition. You reference this later on, so it can't be removed entirely. Maybe have Nick ask his dad what he's thinking, and have Sain stutter something? I'm sure there's other, less clumsy ways of handling it, but that's the first thing that pops into my head. Likewise, I'm not sure if I can imagine a mom telling her ten-year-old son and even younger daughter about what a flirt dad was. IIRC, that's the stuff that gets saved for way later in life (or my family could be weird).

Okay, that could work.

WRT to weapon training, one doesn't master the basics on the first try. Usually, the first time is "let's make sure you don't knock yourself over the head with this" while adjusting to the weight of the weapon. I can realistically see Nick get enough of a grasp with his weapon such that his swings have some confidence behind them (and/or he's not falling down when he tries to do more than a tentative swing).

As for that convo before I stopped, not sure what can be done about it. I'm not the best with dialogue, either.

Of course one doesn't get it right on the first try. Nick makes a bunch of mistakes for awhile, after all. And he does fall over. I said that sometimes he swung so hard that he fell over. xP

[Life]

Can't quote on my phone.

What eclipse is trying to say is that realistically, the kid shouldn't be anywhere near mastering the basics. We're talking a couple of years. Remember, this is swordplay designed to kill people. Not stuffing envelopes or some other menial job. You don't get it right in a night.

[Anacybele]

Can't quote on my phone.

What eclipse is trying to say is that realistically, the kid shouldn't be anywhere near mastering the basics. We're talking a couple of years. Remember, this is swordplay designed to kill people. Not stuffing envelopes or some other menial job. You don't get it right in a night.

...I seriously don't think it takes a couple of years for someone to master swinging a simple sword from left to right or up and down.

[Life]

...I seriously don't think it takes a couple of years for someone to master swinging a simple sword from left to right or up and down.

Swinging a sword is easy. Being able to swing it as a competant slash in the middle of battle is much harder and takes years of practice.

[eclipse]

If you're trying to swat a fly, it takes a couple of hours (source: most people who live in my area are proficient in fly swatter, rolled-up newspaper and/or rubber slipper). If you're trying to swing while not overextending, having the sword fly out of your grasp, inviting the enemy to disarm you, and accidentally beheading your allies, it will take much longer. Working out the really bad habits early is vital; thus, the best I can see is "I'm accustomed enough to the weight of the sword such that I don't drop it every other time I swing".

If there's some free weapon training in your area, give it a shot. It's a lot of fun if taught right!

[Anacybele]

Swinging a sword is easy. Being able to swing it as a competant slash in the middle of battle is much harder and takes years of practice.

And Sain is teaching his son the former right now, not the latter. You gotta start at the beginning, after all.

[Life]

And Sain is teaching his son the former right now, not the latter. You gotta start at the beginning, after all.

Just telling you, no 10 year old kid picks up a swing with a sword within an hour or so. At the very least, we're talking days.