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[From hack to indie] Path of the Midnight Sun


Alfred Kamon
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Joined to comment on this. I'm genuinely amazed at the polish, character balance (but in the "everyone is useful" way!), map design, and general ingenuity in this hack. The story, which exposits brilliantly, may suffer from fridge logic by a lack of explanation for events at times, but is otherwise much more mature and focused, much less self-indulgent, than most fan content I've seen for the series. I'm frankly struggling to understand how someone could resist all the tempting ideas that ruin hacks, like excessive favoritism. Your mechanics are inventive and varied without being game-breaking, your new classes are well constructed (although the Warp Knight does appear a bit rigid when it attacks, in a vein reminiscent of the standard sword animation for Rangers), your trainees are, so far, fully grindable but not broken. I'm just really, really impressed.

Except that the Wonder Pupil animation looks like the Pupil is trying to pass gas. Removing the stumble was great, but it looks just a bit awkward to me, the way he leans over.

I also ran into the bugs with Chapter 7 Greens giving you a Game Over, and the Chapter 8 Fa battle quotes having odd priority. I ALSO got a 14-speed Menmus at a reasonable level. Fa's way underleveled at 10, since Lord promos are in the distant future and Dark Mage Tank doesn't fall behind easily. More importantly, her speed is 11 or so. I might post screenies if someone cares enough to teach me, but I'm fairly new to even working with emulators. I'm also lazy as shit.

...Can I make the case for a promotion item on Chapter 7? I mean, even the standard game gives you a Knight's Crest at Waterside Renvall, if memory serves. One promotion before the game moves to the next portion doesn't seem out of the question, and, if chapter 9 doesn't have any, you might end up being forced to waste a lot of experience. With Weiss' killing spree in 5x and his sort-of status as the new crutch character, putting him to tier 2 is fitting, and it saves players the agony of wasting experience quite as much, considering how the aforementioned killing spree often puts him close to LEVEL 20 with 3 chapters to play before the route split. The original promotion item in FE8 matches his class also. I really like the idea of putting a Crest in 7, maybe 8, though it seems more out-of-place in the latter. Honestly, though, the broad versatility of units makes me desperately want a Master Seal, despite that being a late-game item, because I'd just love having the opportunity to make a god out of any of the awesome characters available.

Also, I figure it's intentional, considering the leveling gimmick, but Shiori's Light rank doesn't go up from C, which I kinda don't like, because it feels unnecessary and punishes you for using her. I get that she isn't supposed to be trainable until her route, but Light rank isn't her power, and she's otherwise going to be forever weaker than Fa for her respective route. I suspect you thought about all of this already, given the polish on the hack, but I feel like pointing it out anyway.

Love the hack. Keep up the great work. It seems like more content (Tower of Trials) will release before the next mega-update of chapters, which sounds great to me.

Now to replay this on my iPad.

And, with that mix of gushing and likely-unfounded criticism, I'll be off.

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I'd be concerned that he'd reach gamebreaker levels if he promoted too early. From the screenshots I've seen, most Weiss' are already stupidly powerful by the end of the current hack, likely through over levelling on Ch. 5x and his rather good stat gains. Promoting him early might make it a little easy to solo large portions of levels ala Seth. A "crutch" is supposed to help in difficult times, not win the war by itself. This hack is supposed to be difficult!

(That said, I'm the person with a 10 + 12 Sae'rah, 20 Ceapana, 14 Cattleya and 18 Rya - I apparently stuck with the "not worth using" group as opposed to "overpowered Weiss", who's still lv. 16. In fact, excluding "dodging is against my religion Cristoph" and "I like dealing scratch damage Schwarz", all of my characters were pretty competent by the end of Ch. 8. What would I know about soloing this?)

Besides, isn't Hellios the early game crutch? Ignoring the obvious flaw of course?

...I suppose an alternative would be to make Weiss a prepromote. At least then he'd gain exp at a glacial rate from the get go, thus alleviating the attractiveness of those rather high stat gains. But then he'd be locked out of quite a few levels...

Edited by Wayward Winds
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I'd be concerned that he'd reach gamebreaker levels if he promoted too early. From the screenshots I've seen, most Weiss' are already stupidly powerful by the end of the current hack, likely through over levelling on Ch. 5x and his rather good stat gains. Promoting him early might make it a little easy to solo large portions of levels ala Seth. A "crutch" is supposed to help in difficult times, not win the war by itself. This hack is supposed to be difficult!

(That said, I'm the person with a 10 + 12 Sae'rah, 20 Ceapana, 14 Cattleya and 18 Rya - I apparently stuck with the "not worth using" group as opposed to "overpowered Weiss", who's still lv. 16. In fact, excluding "dodging is against my religion Cristoph" and "I like dealing scratch damage Schwarz", all of my characters were pretty competent by the end of Ch. 8. What would I know about soloing this?)

Besides, isn't Hellios the early game crutch? Ignoring the obvious flaw of course?

...I suppose an alternative would be to make Weiss a prepromote. At least then he'd gain exp at a glacial rate from the get go, thus alleviating the attractiveness of those rather high stat gains. But then he'd be locked out of quite a few levels...

If Weiss was a pre promote he'd be low tier and borderline useless. I think he should get a promo item either in Meet the Demon, or right after, because he hits 20 very quickly since he does 90% of the fighting in 5x.

My picks are also different from the majority of people, I think, though. Rya and Sae'rah are garbage IMO, whereas everyone overlooks Garion and Schwartz (I don't get how people think he does 'low damage', either...)

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I think it depends on how the next chapters are in difficulty (But I do think it would be an interesting idea to hold the cav promotion items, since he is the only cav anyway) I will not claim to be well with difficulty balance and there may be an obvious issue with this that I'm not seeing.

[spoiler=Also I found this funny. Also, this is a legitimate spoiler, so don't look unless you've played all the way through]

tvqTh1k.png

I liked that movie :B

Edited by L95
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If Weiss was a pre promote he'd be low tier and borderline useless. I think he should get a promo item either in Meet the Demon, or right after, because he hits 20 very quickly since he does 90% of the fighting in 5x.

My picks are also different from the majority of people, I think, though. Rya and Sae'rah are garbage IMO, whereas everyone overlooks Garion and Schwartz (I don't get how people think he does 'low damage', either...)

My Menmuses keep turning out great, so he overshadows Schwartz, but I find that Schwartz might get underrated due to people using his Agile Estoc enough that they forget how high his attack actually reaches with the Steel Sword and a few strength growths. I made that mistake myself.

Rya has been nothing short of great for me, though, while I agree that grinding Sae'Rah as much as some people do is a waste that exaggerates her quality.

Edit: Is the description of Hoikade on enemy soldiers' profiles supposed to indicate that it is the strongest nation on the continent? That seems....odd to me.

Double edit: bosses feel underpowered in general to me. Rooted bosses should be stronger imo.

Edited by The Protagonist
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My Menmuses keep turning out great, so he overshadows Schwartz, but I find that Schwartz might get underrated due to people using his Agile Estoc enough that they forget how high his attack actually reaches with the Steel Sword and a few strength growths. I made that mistake myself.

Rya has been nothing short of great for me, though, while I agree that grinding Sae'Rah as much as some people do is a waste that exaggerates her quality.

Edit: Is the description of Hoikade on enemy soldiers' profiles supposed to indicate that it is the strongest nation on the continent? That seems....odd to me.

I've also had very good Menmus's, but multiple fliers aren't bad and Schwartz is a lot more accurate. And I agree - Schwartz actually has fairly high strength for a Peg.

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Can you guys recommend me some characters I should use for my playthrough.

Old Staff Guy (seriously, he's awesome), one of Wyvern Guy/Schwartz (one should turn out good), Andre (get past the painful part, and he's worth it), Cristoph (and maybe That Other Guy if Cris is being stubborn), and of course, Fa. Rya tends to turn out well, but I didn't really need her.

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Old Staff Guy (seriously, he's awesome), one of Wyvern Guy/Schwartz (one should turn out good), Andre (get past the painful part, and he's worth it), Cristoph (and maybe That Other Guy if Cris is being stubborn), and of course, Fa. Rya tends to turn out well, but I didn't really need her.

Hating the sexy myrmidon are we?

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Hating the sexy myrmidon are we?

Swords? What are those?

I'm not a huge fan of myrmidons, and all she did in my run was surrender her weapon. ;/

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Cattleya is outclassed by pretty much the entire cast, except the trainees.

Still hating huh?!

Cattleya is love Cattleya is life!

Edited by Fateborn
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Still hating huh?!

Cattleya is love Cattleya is life!

I'd rather NOT turn this into a tier-style debate on why this assumption may be faulty. Especially not in this thread.

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Still hating huh?!

Cattleya is love Cattleya is life!

From a purely mechanical standpoint, it's because she's a low damage swordlocked unit with low durability, and overshadowed as a glass cannon by both Schwartz and Cristoph (the former who is as accurate, more damaging, and more mobile, and the latter who deals significantly more damage albeit with less accuracy) and in every possible way by Weiss (who also uses swords).

This is of course discounting fetishes personal preferences. She's not completely unusable, and I don't feel you need to play to super optimization levels to finish Midnight Sun.

Edited by Siuloir
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I think it's actually the general consensus that Cattleya is bottom-tier.

As for characters to use...if you're not in hard mode, every character is quite usable, and you shouldn't have trouble. If you want my noob's advice, then here: Puledra's a good crutch healer but a waste of xp since a mounted healer with better stats (although one without slayer) shows up midway through the demo. Fa's consistently useful, by most reports, though using her is a given, and Andre is widely considered borderline broken. Weiss is great, but you'll see that using him is a no-brainer. Make your pick of the axe-users, since using 3 isn't feasible, especially with a fourth in Menmus. Really, just follow your growths. Whoever gets lucky will be useful. The balance is good.

Oh, and don't overuse Hellios. I benched him and never looked back, but I think I'm all but alone there.

Any objections to that? This IS a game with an rng, so results may vary, and I know I'm the newbie to the forum space.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey there!
I'm sorry if I'm not around that much as of late, but I'm in... the middle of a forest, and I still can't believe I even found an internet connection!

...Fact is, I'll be able to use it for... er, about half an hour.

So, I'll just tell you something about the progress of the hack.

Progress info:
- I've finished the first floor of the Tower of Trials. Like every other floor I'll make, it can be played in many different ways.
After all, replayable maps should be -at least- interesting. ;)
Tower floors won't be extensions of the main story-- they're just some extra maps that you're supposed to do in order
to gain a bit of extra exp, since the main chapters from ch.9 will be pretty... intense.
I'm still undecided whether to give extra characters in Tower battles or not... but probably yes.
Ruins chapters WILL be extensions of the main story though, if everything goes according to plan.
You need 1000 gold to access the main floor of the Tower (you don't have to pay any fees in postgame, though).
From here, you have 15 turns to do stuff, like visiting the shops (more shops will be available as soon as you progress in the story),
gaining some support points (because supports will be a thing in v.2.0 hopefully... sorry Ashley, a lot of work for you XD) and...
... trying to figure out how to beat Anna's challenge!
But most importantly, you can select a trial.
The harder the trial, the more you need to pay in order to play it.
You need 1000 gold to access the First Trial, so that makes a total of 2000 gold. But hey, it's good for some extra exp, ya?
Also, you can access the Tower only ONCE per chapter. We don't want any unnecessary grinding, right?
One last thing: when you progress in the main story, some blacksmiths will join the main floor of the Tower.
But I'll talk about forging in another paragraph!
- Chapter 9B (Shiori's route) is (almost) done, and it's one of the most ambitious chapters I've created so far.
...Actually, it's probably the most ambitious ever.
It's a prison chapter.
I'll post some screenies later, when it'll be 100% finished.
I've also projected some new mechanics.
As for now... I present you these ones:
New features & mechanics in v.2.0:
-*-*Forging*-*- You'll be able to combine various objects and weapons to forge new weapons!
First of all, these are the "objects" you can drop in skirmishes or get by beating the Trials of the Tower:
* Bronze (lv.1 weapon forging material)
* Mythril (lv.2 weapon forging material)
* Obsidian (lv.3 weapon forging material)
* Adamantium (Legendary weapon forging material)
* Magic Dust (lv.1 magic forging material)
* Spirit Dust (lv.2 magic forging material)
* Soul Dust (lv.3 magic forging material)
* Divine Dust (Legendary magic forging material)
Materials value:
- Bronze/Magic Dust: sell for 500 gold
- Mythril/Spirit Dust: sell for 1250 gold
- Obsidian/Soul Dust: sell for 2600 gold
- Adamantium/Divine Dust: unsellable
Some examples of forging:
- Steel Sword + Heal + Mythril + 1500 gold = Soothing Sword (heals 10 HP at the beginning of each turn when equipped) [materials value: 300 (at full uses) + 300 (at full uses) + 1250 + 1500 = max 3350, obtainable only through forging]
- Silver Sword + Nosferatu + Obsidian + 2000 gold = Rune Sword (1-2 range, drains HP) [max 750 + max 1600 + 2600 + 2000 = max 6950. Can be bought in postgame for 7500 -> save at least 550 gold, and get it early]
- Silver Sword + Shine + Obsidian + 1560 gold = Solaris (1-2 range, effective against some monsters) [max 750 + max 540 + 2600 + 1560 = max 5450. Can be bought in postgame for 6000 -> save at least 550 gold, and get it early]
- Thunder + Spirit Dust + 500 gold = Bolting [materials value: 350 (at full uses) + 1250 + 1000 = max 2600 || Bolting value = 3000. || save at least 400 gold with forging]
- Bolting + Soul Dust + 2400 gold = Thunderstorm (Anima tome with Brave effect) [max 1500 + 2600 + 2400 = max 6500, obtainable only through forging]
- Aircalibur + Divine Dust + 15'000 gold = Excalibur
Some examples of repairing:
- Iron sword + 330 Gold = Full uses Iron sword
- Steel Sword + Bronze = Full uses Steel sword
- Silver Sword + Mythril = Full uses Silver sword
Comparing prices:
- Iron sword: buy for 460 gold (save up to 75 gold by repairing it instead of buying a new one)
- Steel sword: buy for 600 gold (save up to 90 gold by repairing it instead of buying a new one)
- Silver sword: buy for 1500 gold (save up to 213 gold by repairing it instead of buying a new one)
-*-*Weapon Rank Bonuses*-*- You get some bonuses based on your weapon rank! (enemies get them too)
All weapons use 1 "point" at B rank, 2 "points" at A rank and 3 "points" at S rank.
+1 Mt/Def = 1 point (note: "Def" is referred to both magical and physical defense)
+5 Hit/Avo/Crit/Crit Avo = 1 point
Weapon | B rank bonus | A rank bonus | S rank bonus
points: 1 point | 2 points | 3 points
Swords | + 1 Mt | + 1 Mt, + 5 Avo | +2 Mt, +5 Avo
Lances | + 5 Hit | + 1 Def, + 5 Hit | +1 Def, +10 Hit
Axes | +5 Hit | + 10 Hit | +15 Hit
Bows | +1 Mt | +1 Mt, +5 Hit | +1 Mt, +10 Hit
Anima | +1 Mt | +1 Mt, +5 Crit Avo | +2 Mt, +5 Crit Avo
Dark | +1 Mt | +2 Mt | +3 Mt
Light | +5 Crit | +1 Mt +5 Crit | +1 Mt +10 Crit
Weapon Triangle Advantage cancels the bonuses of the disadvantaged weapon! (for example, A rank Axes vs. S rank Lances: the S rank bonuses for lances are null.)
-*-*Stat changes*-*-
Cristoph:
-bases-
HP 25
Pow 10
Skill 4 > 5
Spd 8
Luck 9
Def 4
Res 1
-growths-
HP 80 = 80%
Pow 50 = 50%
Skl 35 = 35%
Spd 45 > 55%
Luck 45 = 45%
Def 30 = 30%
Res 25 = 25%
Total 320%
Cattleya: HP 80 < 70%
Rya: Pow 35 > 40%
Aaand, there are two Average Stats Sheets for ya here.
I'll make these sheets for every character!
DOWNLOAD SHIORI AND FARATRASS' AVERAGE STATS SHEETS:
The artwork is made by Regina R. (aka Arcfalchion), as usual.
-*-*Work-In-Progress*-*-
> Class skills: every promoted class will have a unique skill. [Perhaps?] You'll be able to gain new character-based skills by meeting certain requirements.
> New branched promotions system: I'm still projecting this, but my idea is to give the possibility to "re-promote" promoted classes into another promoted (only one).
For example, Spellfencers (anima,swords) will repromote into Sages (anima,staves) and Sages will repromote into Spellfencers.
By doing so, Spellfencers might get the use of Staves from Sages, and Sages will get something from Spellfencers (swords? light? I'm still working on this)
Of course, this needs to be balanced accordingly. Variety will be given by weapon ranks and class/character skills. You'll get only 1-2 repromoting items during the main story, but they'll be purchasable in secret shops in postgame.
> Support bonuses and support mechanics. A supports will give some unique skills or items. Support bonuses will be edited for balancing purposes.
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Ruins chapters WILL be extensions of the main story though, if everything goes according to plan.

Sounds like the FE Awakening paralogues - specifically the spotpass ones that tie up loose ends but don't touch the main story. (Seeing as the Lagdou ruins become available before the finale is attempted).

You need 1000 gold to access the First Trial, so that makes a total of 2000 gold. But hey, it's good for some extra exp, ya?Also, you can access the Tower only ONCE per chapter. We don't want any unnecessary grinding, right?

...Don't forget to put a similar limiter on skirmishes then! (In vanilla FE8, I vaguely remember skirmish creatures appearing on leaving the tower/ruins, just as they do on clearing a chapter. As I expect you'd have to enter the Tower for the "Get out until you clear another chapter!" message, if you're then auto-booted back to the world map and more monsters spawn, it would kind of undermine the whole anti-grinding thing!)

Oh, and these challenges? Hope they don't allow you to recoup the entrance fee through selling dropped items!

Quite ambitious indeed. The forging system sounds particularly interesting. (Keep some recipes secret won't you!)

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